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Re: help! hard to control intermediate cardimyopathy

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  • mukki2@yahoo.com
    His name is Smer. :) Anyways, he is now on 12.5mg 2x a day. He has mitral valve insufficieny/prolapse (very rare for a cat, apparently) so that his mitral
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 2, 2001
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      His name is Smer. :) Anyways, he is now on 12.5mg 2x a day. He has
      mitral valve insufficieny/prolapse (very rare for a cat, apparently)
      so that his mitral valve does not close all of the way. As a result,
      the blood backflows from his left ventricle into his left atrium.
      Blood pressure is elevated and the heart has to work harder to
      properly oxygenate the lungs. His last and only ultrasound was in
      Jan. 2000. When he went back into the vet in Aug. 2000, they offered
      another ultrasound, but said that it wasn't really necessary, unless
      we thought we really needed to see how far the disease had
      progressed. As long as we understood that Smer's days were numbered,
      an ultrasound, in their opinion, wouldn't help matters.

      All I can say is that I wouldn't give up hope until you are sure your
      cat's quality of life has detiorated so much that he should be
      euthanized. I thought for sure that Smer would have to be euthanized
      over a year ago. For a period in the summer of 2000, he went into
      serious CHF (as in he wouldn't eat, had an hard time breathing, and
      just sat still) a couple times within one week. I would have to pill
      him and, miracle or miracles, he always pulled through. After I'd
      pill him, I'd sit in the bedroom cyring and trying to leave him alone
      so he could rest, and then, a few hours later, I'd go to the kitchen
      and he'd come running in after me, feeling better. In August, he
      stopped having serious CHF episodes, but seemed to have a hard time
      breathing, even though he still acted normally. We took him into the
      vet and his lungs were 70% filled with fluid. They drained him and he
      came home, but still didn't look great. When we moved in December,
      however, he suddenly got a lot better and the fluids totally cleared
      from his lungs. It was amazing. I maintained him that way on 25mg 2x
      a day. Then, this past July, he started to feel worse again and the
      fluid returned. He went into serious CHF a few weeks ago again, but
      I gave him an extra dose of lasix. He still has some heavy breathing
      and I'm sure some fluid, but he eats and runs around quite a bit
      (although he's not the old Smer he was).

      My main concern is that he is not in a lot of pain. I'm sure he has
      discomfort, but, like I said, still eats and lies out in the sun
      (which isn't good for his heart, I'm sure, but he loves to so much).
      Every week I wonder if this is his last, but he's still going.

      I think he has been able to take so much medication because he's such
      a healthy cat other than the heart disease. He never had any problems
      whatsoever (despite a diet of Fancy Feast, which I'd like to get him
      off of). His kidneys must have been quite healthy to take so much
      Enacard and lasix....

      Good luck with your kitty. It sounds like you are experiencing a lot
      of the same issues and feelings I have. I was so upset in the
      beginning, but now I've become accustomed to his daily problems and
      the possibility of losing him. I really wish that when it's time for
      him to go, he goes peacefully in his sleep. However, I doubt this
      will be the case! Feel free to post/email me any questions.

      Hilary

      --- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
      > wow, I can't beleive he is doing so good either-which form of
      > cardiomyopathy does he have? did you say that you are back to 12.5
      > 3xday or still on 25mg 2xday? I totally agree w. you, as does my
      vet,
      > it is chf or kidney diease so might as well control the chf and
      hope it
      > keeps them around a little longer. how was his last ultra sound?
      > curious to know because fankie was only diagnosed 6 weeks ago and
      in
      > those 6 weeks his ultrasound has shown a very rapid progressive of
      the
      > diease and they are giving us a avery poor prognosis, but he sounds
      just
      > like your kitty (p.s what is his name?) so happy and a good quality
      of
      > life inbetween epsiodes that we can't seem to see how it is ok to
      put
      > him to sleep yet, yetr like you say he can't go to the hospital
      once a
      > week. I hope this new regimen of stuff and doses will keep his
      fluids
      > down and hopefully we can catch an episodes early and tret at home
      with
      > additional lasix. you kitty gives me such hope, after his results
      from
      > yesterday I was not feeling very optimistic but maybe things will
      be
      > better then expected. thank you so much for all your info! good
      luck to
      > you and your kitty, please keep me updated nad informed-as I will
      you
      > with frankie
      >
      > alexis
      >
      > mukki2@y... wrote:
      >
      > >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
      > >
      > >>I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-so
      > >>
      > >far no
      > >
      > >>fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his
      > >>
      > >lasis
      > >
      > >>does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping.
      How
      > >>
      > >is
      > >
      > >>your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at
      > >>
      > >2.5mg and
      > >
      > >>showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him
      norvasc
      > >>instead which is suppodesly better...
      > >>
      > >
      > >Unfortunately, I have not had my cat's renal function checked
      since
      > >August '00. I know that sounds awful, but he goes ballistic when a
      > >vet tries to get blood and I am not going to put him through that
      > >stress (often goes into serious CHF the next day after the
      trauma). I
      > >haven't noticed any problems, but I've heard that you don't see
      any
      > >until it's too late. He was urinating more often (small puddles)
      the
      > >other week, but has normalized.
      > >
      > >>how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is the
      > >>
      > >lowest
      > >
      > >>lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday?
      how
      > >>
      > >long
      > >
      > >>would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you been
      > >>
      > >able to
      > >
      > >>control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope
      > >>
      > >so....
      > >
      > >He was diagnosed in Jan. '00 (went into CHF after having a dental
      > >cleaning -- obviously, a huge mistake since his teeth weren't even
      > >that bad). He started out on 12.5mg/1 pill of lasix per day,
      which
      > >controlled the fluids just fine. Then in the summer of 2000 things
      > >got worse and he had to be drained. After that, he was on 37.5mg/3
      > >pills a day, but had his ups and downs. Eventually, I was able to
      > >control the fluids for 6 months at the beginning of this year on
      25mg
      > >2x a day/ 4 pills total (he only stabilized after we moved to a
      new
      > >house where he got more exercise -- I swear that helped him even
      > >though it's is supposed to tax the heart). Anyway, he is now back
      on
      > >that amount after I noticed the change in urination. Giving him
      more
      > >doesn't seem to help much. I know he has some fluid buildup, but
      > >seems stable.
      > >
      > >>sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so
      > >>
      > >diffacult.
      > >
      > >> to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and
      > >>
      > >things
      > >
      > >>have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in
      on
      > >>
      > >the
      > >
      > >>rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better manage
      > >>frankie too
      > >>
      > >I am probably not a good example since I do exactly what the
      doctors
      > >tell me NOT to do. I change his medication according to how he
      seems
      > >to be doing. I've given him more than the recommended dose
      because,
      > >quite frankly, I figure he is either going to die from heart
      failure
      > >or kidney damage. I decided that I didn't want him to constantly
      be
      > >stressed out by vet visits (and I'm telling you THIS cat hates the
      > >vet; he's as gentle as can be normally, but when the vet lays a
      hand
      > >on him... watch out). Plus, it cost at least $600 every time he
      had
      > >to go in and stay the night. The only other alternative to me
      would
      > >be to euthanize him now, which I don't think is appropriate,
      > >particularly when I still see him rolling in the sunshine in the
      > >backyard and looking thoroughly content. When he stops eating and
      > >enjoying life, then the vet who makes home visits will euthanize
      him
      > >in the comfort of our own home. To me, the quality of his life is
      > >much more important than quantity. That vet is actually extremely
      > >surprised that my cat is still alive.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >>thanx
      > >>alexis
      > >>
      > >>mukki2@y... wrote:
      > >>
      > >>>I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is
      what
      > >>>someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off
      lasix,
      > >>>
      > >I
      > >
      > >>>believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
      > >>>however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills
      > >>>
      > >are
      > >
      > >>>also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with
      them.
      > >>>
      > >>>My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being
      > >>>
      > >effective
      > >
      > >>>at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some
      > >>>
      > >research
      > >
      > >>>on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can
      build
      > >>>
      > >up
      > >
      > >>>tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used.
      However,
      > >>>
      > >I
      > >
      > >>>have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever
      recommended
      > >>>
      > >a
      > >
      > >>>different diuretic.
      > >>>
      > >>>For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day
      (or
      > >>>
      > >5mg
      > >
      > >>>a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of
      the
      > >>>vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it
      was
      > >>>
      > >a
      > >
      > >>>risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective
      > >>>
      > >and
      > >
      > >>>the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
      > >>>(expensive and stressful for my cat).
      > >>>
      > >>>--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>>>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the
      > >>>>
      > >left
      > >
      > >>>and I
      > >>>
      > >>>>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched
      > >>>>
      > >vets
      > >
      > >>>and
      > >>>
      > >>>>have another appt today and will ask him...
      > >>>>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
      > >>>>
      > >>>>VHess2000@c... wrote:
      > >>>>
      > >>>>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably
      > >>>>>
      > >has
      > >
      > >>>the worse
      > >>>
      > >>>>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is
      unclear,
      > >>>>>
      > >>>why cats get
      > >>>
      > >>>>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
      > >>>>>
      > >>>problem. On
      > >>>
      > >>>>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
      > >>>>>
      > >>>diagnosis.
      > >>>
      > >>>>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I
      suspect
      > >>>>>
      > >>>that your cat
      > >>>
      > >>>>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed
      to
      > >>>>>
      > >>>most readers
      > >>>
      > >>>>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement
      > >>>>>
      > >only.
      > >
      > >>>Hearts
      > >>>
      > >>>>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
      > >>>>>
      > >>>fluid. You could
      > >>>
      > >>>>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
      > >>>>>
      > >>>would strongly
      > >>>
      > >>>>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which
      can
      > >>>>>
      > >>>relieve
      > >>>
      > >>>>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a
      > >>>>>
      > >little
      > >
      > >>>more
      > >>>
      > >>>>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but
      > >>>>>
      > >saves
      > >
      > >>>you and the
      > >>>
      > >>>>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably
      > >>>>>
      > >have
      > >
      > >>>to give it
      > >>>
      > >>>>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>Also, are you
      > >>>
      > >>>>>using a sodium-restricted food?
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>Victoria
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > >>>>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > >>>>>
      > >>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > >>>
      > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • flyerfan@blazenet.net
      I have been reading your posts and while Dom does not get any of the drugs etc. that your cats are taking, I just wanted to add that when it comes to the
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 2, 2001
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        I have been reading your posts and while Dom does not get any of the
        drugs etc. that your cats are taking, I just wanted to add that when
        it comes to the heart--you just can't predict what is ever going to
        happen! Most on this board rememeber my problems with Dom and that I
        totally stopped all heart meds, cardiologist visits, blood draws,
        ultrasounds etc. last March. Dom does have HCM and had 4 or 5
        ultrasounds before March. He was diagnosed December 1999. I was told
        that remeoving him from the drugs etc. would probably shorten his
        life but we decided to go with a shorter quality of life for him
        rather than quantity. We do still see the regular vet frequently as
        Dom has allergies and also asthma. We are in the midst of another hot
        spot break out and are trying to deal with it without the steroids as
        they cause him to have labored breathing now. We aren't sure if it is
        a reaction to the steroid or an asthma attack but we are trying to
        avoid it if possible. I am using a topical and the jury is still out
        on whether it will work or if we will end up with the Depo injection.

        My whole point in this is to say that these guys can be amazing! Dom
        is still doing quite well considering his prognosis almost 2 years
        ago. He still runs around the house, loves to eat and is our baby! He
        shows no signs of having a cardiac problem and our vet is amazed
        because of his having asthma also. He says Dom is on his second nine
        lives and we will continue to enjoy our time with him until he shows
        signs of being in some kind of distress. He too hates vets and blood
        draws are an impossibility as they have learned. It seems that he is
        having less problems since we have stopped stressing him. We are very
        lucky to have a vet who understands where we are coming from and he
        agrees that this is certainly the best for Dom. He does make house
        calls for Dom if I need him. And he is always willing to talk on the
        phone as he lets me call the shots on what we want to do. He gives me
        the options and I make my choice and of course, I always ask his
        opinion too. This all makes it alot easier for Dom and me. I know we
        are living on so called borrowed time but Dom has had a great 7
        months so I will never complain. When we were forcing the drugs, vet
        trips, blood draws etc. on him it just wasn't working. We almost lost
        him twice from drug toxicities etc. before we called it off. I am not
        suggesting that any of you stop meds as each cat is different and
        your cat may NEED the meds to live. We have found that Dom just
        wasn't 1 of them. Dom still has never built up fluid that I am aware
        of. He was a 3 when diagnosed and had left side wall thickening,
        enlargement of the heart and an aortic valve leak. He is 7 years old
        and weighs 16 pounds. He hasn't had an ultrasound for 7 months and
        won't be having any in the future. As long as he has a quality of
        life we will keep him with us but we also will PTS when his condition
        deteriorates to the point where he is in pain or struggling with
        life. It will be my last gift to him and like you said, we all hope
        that we just find them 1 day but I am not expecting it to go that
        smoothly! LOL Dom just doesn't do anything easy!!

        Good luck to you and your cats!
        Jeanne, Dom, Bono & Louie



        --- In feline-heart@y..., mukki2@y... wrote:
        > His name is Smer. :) Anyways, he is now on 12.5mg 2x a day. He has
        > mitral valve insufficieny/prolapse (very rare for a cat,
        apparently)
        > so that his mitral valve does not close all of the way. As a
        result,
        > the blood backflows from his left ventricle into his left atrium.
        > Blood pressure is elevated and the heart has to work harder to
        > properly oxygenate the lungs. His last and only ultrasound was in
        > Jan. 2000. When he went back into the vet in Aug. 2000, they
        offered
        > another ultrasound, but said that it wasn't really necessary,
        unless
        > we thought we really needed to see how far the disease had
        > progressed. As long as we understood that Smer's days were
        numbered,
        > an ultrasound, in their opinion, wouldn't help matters.
        >
        > All I can say is that I wouldn't give up hope until you are sure
        your
        > cat's quality of life has detiorated so much that he should be
        > euthanized. I thought for sure that Smer would have to be
        euthanized
        > over a year ago. For a period in the summer of 2000, he went into
        > serious CHF (as in he wouldn't eat, had an hard time breathing, and
        > just sat still) a couple times within one week. I would have to
        pill
        > him and, miracle or miracles, he always pulled through. After I'd
        > pill him, I'd sit in the bedroom cyring and trying to leave him
        alone
        > so he could rest, and then, a few hours later, I'd go to the
        kitchen
        > and he'd come running in after me, feeling better. In August, he
        > stopped having serious CHF episodes, but seemed to have a hard time
        > breathing, even though he still acted normally. We took him into
        the
        > vet and his lungs were 70% filled with fluid. They drained him and
        he
        > came home, but still didn't look great. When we moved in December,
        > however, he suddenly got a lot better and the fluids totally
        cleared
        > from his lungs. It was amazing. I maintained him that way on 25mg
        2x
        > a day. Then, this past July, he started to feel worse again and the
        > fluid returned. He went into serious CHF a few weeks ago again,
        but
        > I gave him an extra dose of lasix. He still has some heavy
        breathing
        > and I'm sure some fluid, but he eats and runs around quite a bit
        > (although he's not the old Smer he was).
        >
        > My main concern is that he is not in a lot of pain. I'm sure he has
        > discomfort, but, like I said, still eats and lies out in the sun
        > (which isn't good for his heart, I'm sure, but he loves to so
        much).
        > Every week I wonder if this is his last, but he's still going.
        >
        > I think he has been able to take so much medication because he's
        such
        > a healthy cat other than the heart disease. He never had any
        problems
        > whatsoever (despite a diet of Fancy Feast, which I'd like to get
        him
        > off of). His kidneys must have been quite healthy to take so much
        > Enacard and lasix....
        >
        > Good luck with your kitty. It sounds like you are experiencing a
        lot
        > of the same issues and feelings I have. I was so upset in the
        > beginning, but now I've become accustomed to his daily problems and
        > the possibility of losing him. I really wish that when it's time
        for
        > him to go, he goes peacefully in his sleep. However, I doubt this
        > will be the case! Feel free to post/email me any questions.
        >
        > Hilary
        >
        > --- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
        > > wow, I can't beleive he is doing so good either-which form of
        > > cardiomyopathy does he have? did you say that you are back to
        12.5
        > > 3xday or still on 25mg 2xday? I totally agree w. you, as does my
        > vet,
        > > it is chf or kidney diease so might as well control the chf and
        > hope it
        > > keeps them around a little longer. how was his last ultra sound?
        > > curious to know because fankie was only diagnosed 6 weeks ago and
        > in
        > > those 6 weeks his ultrasound has shown a very rapid progressive
        of
        > the
        > > diease and they are giving us a avery poor prognosis, but he
        sounds
        > just
        > > like your kitty (p.s what is his name?) so happy and a good
        quality
        > of
        > > life inbetween epsiodes that we can't seem to see how it is ok to
        > put
        > > him to sleep yet, yetr like you say he can't go to the hospital
        > once a
        > > week. I hope this new regimen of stuff and doses will keep his
        > fluids
        > > down and hopefully we can catch an episodes early and tret at
        home
        > with
        > > additional lasix. you kitty gives me such hope, after his
        results
        > from
        > > yesterday I was not feeling very optimistic but maybe things will
        > be
        > > better then expected. thank you so much for all your info! good
        > luck to
        > > you and your kitty, please keep me updated nad informed-as I will
        > you
        > > with frankie
        > >
        > > alexis
        > >
        > > mukki2@y... wrote:
        > >
        > > >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >>I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-
        so
        > > >>
        > > >far no
        > > >
        > > >>fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his
        > > >>
        > > >lasis
        > > >
        > > >>does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping.
        > How
        > > >>
        > > >is
        > > >
        > > >>your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at
        > > >>
        > > >2.5mg and
        > > >
        > > >>showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him
        > norvasc
        > > >>instead which is suppodesly better...
        > > >>
        > > >
        > > >Unfortunately, I have not had my cat's renal function checked
        > since
        > > >August '00. I know that sounds awful, but he goes ballistic when
        a
        > > >vet tries to get blood and I am not going to put him through
        that
        > > >stress (often goes into serious CHF the next day after the
        > trauma). I
        > > >haven't noticed any problems, but I've heard that you don't see
        > any
        > > >until it's too late. He was urinating more often (small puddles)
        > the
        > > >other week, but has normalized.
        > > >
        > > >>how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is
        the
        > > >>
        > > >lowest
        > > >
        > > >>lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday?
        > how
        > > >>
        > > >long
        > > >
        > > >>would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you
        been
        > > >>
        > > >able to
        > > >
        > > >>control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope
        > > >>
        > > >so....
        > > >
        > > >He was diagnosed in Jan. '00 (went into CHF after having a
        dental
        > > >cleaning -- obviously, a huge mistake since his teeth weren't
        even
        > > >that bad). He started out on 12.5mg/1 pill of lasix per day,
        > which
        > > >controlled the fluids just fine. Then in the summer of 2000
        things
        > > >got worse and he had to be drained. After that, he was on
        37.5mg/3
        > > >pills a day, but had his ups and downs. Eventually, I was able
        to
        > > >control the fluids for 6 months at the beginning of this year on
        > 25mg
        > > >2x a day/ 4 pills total (he only stabilized after we moved to a
        > new
        > > >house where he got more exercise -- I swear that helped him even
        > > >though it's is supposed to tax the heart). Anyway, he is now
        back
        > on
        > > >that amount after I noticed the change in urination. Giving him
        > more
        > > >doesn't seem to help much. I know he has some fluid buildup, but
        > > >seems stable.
        > > >
        > > >>sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so
        > > >>
        > > >diffacult.
        > > >
        > > >> to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and
        > > >>
        > > >things
        > > >
        > > >>have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in
        > on
        > > >>
        > > >the
        > > >
        > > >>rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better
        manage
        > > >>frankie too
        > > >>
        > > >I am probably not a good example since I do exactly what the
        > doctors
        > > >tell me NOT to do. I change his medication according to how he
        > seems
        > > >to be doing. I've given him more than the recommended dose
        > because,
        > > >quite frankly, I figure he is either going to die from heart
        > failure
        > > >or kidney damage. I decided that I didn't want him to constantly
        > be
        > > >stressed out by vet visits (and I'm telling you THIS cat hates
        the
        > > >vet; he's as gentle as can be normally, but when the vet lays a
        > hand
        > > >on him... watch out). Plus, it cost at least $600 every time he
        > had
        > > >to go in and stay the night. The only other alternative to me
        > would
        > > >be to euthanize him now, which I don't think is appropriate,
        > > >particularly when I still see him rolling in the sunshine in the
        > > >backyard and looking thoroughly content. When he stops eating
        and
        > > >enjoying life, then the vet who makes home visits will euthanize
        > him
        > > >in the comfort of our own home. To me, the quality of his life
        is
        > > >much more important than quantity. That vet is actually
        extremely
        > > >surprised that my cat is still alive.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >>thanx
        > > >>alexis
        > > >>
        > > >>mukki2@y... wrote:
        > > >>
        > > >>>I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is
        > what
        > > >>>someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off
        > lasix,
        > > >>>
        > > >I
        > > >
        > > >>>believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
        > > >>>however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The
        pills
        > > >>>
        > > >are
        > > >
        > > >>>also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with
        > them.
        > > >>>
        > > >>>My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being
        > > >>>
        > > >effective
        > > >
        > > >>>at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some
        > > >>>
        > > >research
        > > >
        > > >>>on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can
        > build
        > > >>>
        > > >up
        > > >
        > > >>>tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used.
        > However,
        > > >>>
        > > >I
        > > >
        > > >>>have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever
        > recommended
        > > >>>
        > > >a
        > > >
        > > >>>different diuretic.
        > > >>>
        > > >>>For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day
        > (or
        > > >>>
        > > >5mg
        > > >
        > > >>>a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of
        > the
        > > >>>vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it
        > was
        > > >>>
        > > >a
        > > >
        > > >>>risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not
        effective
        > > >>>
        > > >and
        > > >
        > > >>>the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
        > > >>>(expensive and stressful for my cat).
        > > >>>
        > > >>>--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the
        > > >>>>
        > > >left
        > > >
        > > >>>and I
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have
        switched
        > > >>>>
        > > >vets
        > > >
        > > >>>and
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>have another appt today and will ask him...
        > > >>>>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
        > > >>>>
        > > >>>>VHess2000@c... wrote:
        > > >>>>
        > > >>>>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which
        probably
        > > >>>>>
        > > >has
        > > >
        > > >>>the worse
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is
        > unclear,
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>why cats get
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an
        autoimmune
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>problem. On
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months
        after
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>diagnosis.
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I
        > suspect
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>that your cat
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as
        opposed
        > to
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>most readers
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement
        > > >>>>>
        > > >only.
        > > >
        > > >>>Hearts
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>fluid. You could
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but
        I
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>would strongly
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which
        > can
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>relieve
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a
        > > >>>>>
        > > >little
        > > >
        > > >>>more
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but
        > > >>>>>
        > > >saves
        > > >
        > > >>>you and the
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd
        probably
        > > >>>>>
        > > >have
        > > >
        > > >>>to give it
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral
        lasix.
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>Also, are you
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>using a sodium-restricted food?
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>>>Victoria
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > >>>>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >>>
        > > >>>>>
        > > >>>
        > > >>>
        > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        > > >>>
        > > >>>
        > > >>>
        > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > > >>>
        > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >
        > > >>>
        > > >>>
        > > >>
        > > >>
        > > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >>
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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