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Re: [feline-heart] Re: help! hard to control intermediate cardimyopathy

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  • Alexis Snyder
    p.s. frankie takes the rutin orally-is somewhat big but able to take... ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 1, 2001
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      p.s. frankie takes the rutin orally-is somewhat big but able to take...

      mukki2@... wrote:

      >I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is what
      >someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off lasix, I
      >believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
      >however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills are
      >also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with them.
      >
      >My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being effective
      >at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some research
      >on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can build up
      >tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used. However, I
      >have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever recommended a
      >different diuretic.
      >
      >For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or 5mg
      >a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of the
      >vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it was a
      >risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective and
      >the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
      >(expensive and stressful for my cat).
      >
      >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
      >
      >>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the left
      >>
      >and I
      >
      >>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched vets
      >>
      >and
      >
      >>have another appt today and will ask him...
      >>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
      >>
      >>VHess2000@c... wrote:
      >>
      >>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably has
      >>>
      >the worse
      >
      >>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear,
      >>>
      >why cats get
      >
      >>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
      >>>
      >problem. On
      >
      >>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
      >>>
      >diagnosis.
      >
      >>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I suspect
      >>>
      >that your cat
      >
      >>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed to
      >>>
      >most readers
      >
      >>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement only.
      >>>
      >Hearts
      >
      >>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
      >>>
      >fluid. You could
      >
      >>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
      >>>
      >would strongly
      >
      >>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which can
      >>>
      >relieve
      >
      >>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a little
      >>>
      >more
      >
      >>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but saves
      >>>
      >you and the
      >
      >>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably have
      >>>
      >to give it
      >
      >>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
      >>>
      >Also, are you
      >
      >>>using a sodium-restricted food?
      >>>
      >>>Victoria
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      >>>
      >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >>>
      >>>
      >
      >
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Cynthia Rausch
      mukki2@yahoo.com wrote: For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or 5mg a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 1, 2001
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        mukki2@... wrote:
        For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or 5mg
        a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of the
        vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it was a
        risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective and
        the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
        (expensive and stressful for my cat).

        Hi,

        I just wanted to pass this human link on diuretics, the concern is
        that when on lasix potassium is lost.

        http://www.awl.com.au/pharma/chap40.html

        Cynthia, Taffy, Samuel
      • mukki2@yahoo.com
        ... far no ... lasis ... is ... 2.5mg and ... Unfortunately, I have not had my cat s renal function checked since August 00. I know that sounds awful, but he
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 2, 2001
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          --- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
          > I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-so
          far no
          > fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his
          lasis
          > does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping. How
          is
          > your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at
          2.5mg and
          > showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him norvasc
          > instead which is suppodesly better...

          Unfortunately, I have not had my cat's renal function checked since
          August '00. I know that sounds awful, but he goes ballistic when a
          vet tries to get blood and I am not going to put him through that
          stress (often goes into serious CHF the next day after the trauma). I
          haven't noticed any problems, but I've heard that you don't see any
          until it's too late. He was urinating more often (small puddles) the
          other week, but has normalized.

          > how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is the
          lowest
          > lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday? how
          long
          > would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you been
          able to
          > control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope
          so....

          He was diagnosed in Jan. '00 (went into CHF after having a dental
          cleaning -- obviously, a huge mistake since his teeth weren't even
          that bad). He started out on 12.5mg/1 pill of lasix per day, which
          controlled the fluids just fine. Then in the summer of 2000 things
          got worse and he had to be drained. After that, he was on 37.5mg/3
          pills a day, but had his ups and downs. Eventually, I was able to
          control the fluids for 6 months at the beginning of this year on 25mg
          2x a day/ 4 pills total (he only stabilized after we moved to a new
          house where he got more exercise -- I swear that helped him even
          though it's is supposed to tax the heart). Anyway, he is now back on
          that amount after I noticed the change in urination. Giving him more
          doesn't seem to help much. I know he has some fluid buildup, but
          seems stable.

          > sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so
          diffacult.
          > to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and
          things
          > have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in on
          the
          > rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better manage
          > frankie too
          >
          I am probably not a good example since I do exactly what the doctors
          tell me NOT to do. I change his medication according to how he seems
          to be doing. I've given him more than the recommended dose because,
          quite frankly, I figure he is either going to die from heart failure
          or kidney damage. I decided that I didn't want him to constantly be
          stressed out by vet visits (and I'm telling you THIS cat hates the
          vet; he's as gentle as can be normally, but when the vet lays a hand
          on him... watch out). Plus, it cost at least $600 every time he had
          to go in and stay the night. The only other alternative to me would
          be to euthanize him now, which I don't think is appropriate,
          particularly when I still see him rolling in the sunshine in the
          backyard and looking thoroughly content. When he stops eating and
          enjoying life, then the vet who makes home visits will euthanize him
          in the comfort of our own home. To me, the quality of his life is
          much more important than quantity. That vet is actually extremely
          surprised that my cat is still alive.


          > thanx
          > alexis
          >
          > mukki2@y... wrote:
          >
          > >I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is what
          > >someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off lasix,
          I
          > >believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
          > >however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills
          are
          > >also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with them.
          > >
          > >My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being
          effective
          > >at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some
          research
          > >on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can build
          up
          > >tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used. However,
          I
          > >have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever recommended
          a
          > >different diuretic.
          > >
          > >For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or
          5mg
          > >a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of the
          > >vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it was
          a
          > >risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective
          and
          > >the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
          > >(expensive and stressful for my cat).
          > >
          > >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
          > >
          > >>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the
          left
          > >>
          > >and I
          > >
          > >>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched
          vets
          > >>
          > >and
          > >
          > >>have another appt today and will ask him...
          > >>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
          > >>
          > >>VHess2000@c... wrote:
          > >>
          > >>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably
          has
          > >>>
          > >the worse
          > >
          > >>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear,
          > >>>
          > >why cats get
          > >
          > >>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
          > >>>
          > >problem. On
          > >
          > >>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
          > >>>
          > >diagnosis.
          > >
          > >>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I suspect
          > >>>
          > >that your cat
          > >
          > >>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed to
          > >>>
          > >most readers
          > >
          > >>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement
          only.
          > >>>
          > >Hearts
          > >
          > >>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
          > >>>
          > >fluid. You could
          > >
          > >>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
          > >>>
          > >would strongly
          > >
          > >>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which can
          > >>>
          > >relieve
          > >
          > >>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a
          little
          > >>>
          > >more
          > >
          > >>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but
          saves
          > >>>
          > >you and the
          > >
          > >>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably
          have
          > >>>
          > >to give it
          > >
          > >>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
          > >>>
          > >Also, are you
          > >
          > >>>using a sodium-restricted food?
          > >>>
          > >>>Victoria
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > >>>
          > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alexis Snyder
          wow, I can t beleive he is doing so good either-which form of cardiomyopathy does he have? did you say that you are back to 12.5 3xday or still on 25mg 2xday?
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 2, 2001
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            wow, I can't beleive he is doing so good either-which form of
            cardiomyopathy does he have? did you say that you are back to 12.5
            3xday or still on 25mg 2xday? I totally agree w. you, as does my vet,
            it is chf or kidney diease so might as well control the chf and hope it
            keeps them around a little longer. how was his last ultra sound?
            curious to know because fankie was only diagnosed 6 weeks ago and in
            those 6 weeks his ultrasound has shown a very rapid progressive of the
            diease and they are giving us a avery poor prognosis, but he sounds just
            like your kitty (p.s what is his name?) so happy and a good quality of
            life inbetween epsiodes that we can't seem to see how it is ok to put
            him to sleep yet, yetr like you say he can't go to the hospital once a
            week. I hope this new regimen of stuff and doses will keep his fluids
            down and hopefully we can catch an episodes early and tret at home with
            additional lasix. you kitty gives me such hope, after his results from
            yesterday I was not feeling very optimistic but maybe things will be
            better then expected. thank you so much for all your info! good luck to
            you and your kitty, please keep me updated nad informed-as I will you
            with frankie

            alexis

            mukki2@... wrote:

            >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
            >
            >>I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-so
            >>
            >far no
            >
            >>fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his
            >>
            >lasis
            >
            >>does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping. How
            >>
            >is
            >
            >>your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at
            >>
            >2.5mg and
            >
            >>showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him norvasc
            >>instead which is suppodesly better...
            >>
            >
            >Unfortunately, I have not had my cat's renal function checked since
            >August '00. I know that sounds awful, but he goes ballistic when a
            >vet tries to get blood and I am not going to put him through that
            >stress (often goes into serious CHF the next day after the trauma). I
            >haven't noticed any problems, but I've heard that you don't see any
            >until it's too late. He was urinating more often (small puddles) the
            >other week, but has normalized.
            >
            >>how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is the
            >>
            >lowest
            >
            >>lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday? how
            >>
            >long
            >
            >>would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you been
            >>
            >able to
            >
            >>control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope
            >>
            >so....
            >
            >He was diagnosed in Jan. '00 (went into CHF after having a dental
            >cleaning -- obviously, a huge mistake since his teeth weren't even
            >that bad). He started out on 12.5mg/1 pill of lasix per day, which
            >controlled the fluids just fine. Then in the summer of 2000 things
            >got worse and he had to be drained. After that, he was on 37.5mg/3
            >pills a day, but had his ups and downs. Eventually, I was able to
            >control the fluids for 6 months at the beginning of this year on 25mg
            >2x a day/ 4 pills total (he only stabilized after we moved to a new
            >house where he got more exercise -- I swear that helped him even
            >though it's is supposed to tax the heart). Anyway, he is now back on
            >that amount after I noticed the change in urination. Giving him more
            >doesn't seem to help much. I know he has some fluid buildup, but
            >seems stable.
            >
            >>sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so
            >>
            >diffacult.
            >
            >> to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and
            >>
            >things
            >
            >>have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in on
            >>
            >the
            >
            >>rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better manage
            >>frankie too
            >>
            >I am probably not a good example since I do exactly what the doctors
            >tell me NOT to do. I change his medication according to how he seems
            >to be doing. I've given him more than the recommended dose because,
            >quite frankly, I figure he is either going to die from heart failure
            >or kidney damage. I decided that I didn't want him to constantly be
            >stressed out by vet visits (and I'm telling you THIS cat hates the
            >vet; he's as gentle as can be normally, but when the vet lays a hand
            >on him... watch out). Plus, it cost at least $600 every time he had
            >to go in and stay the night. The only other alternative to me would
            >be to euthanize him now, which I don't think is appropriate,
            >particularly when I still see him rolling in the sunshine in the
            >backyard and looking thoroughly content. When he stops eating and
            >enjoying life, then the vet who makes home visits will euthanize him
            >in the comfort of our own home. To me, the quality of his life is
            >much more important than quantity. That vet is actually extremely
            >surprised that my cat is still alive.
            >
            >
            >
            >>thanx
            >>alexis
            >>
            >>mukki2@y... wrote:
            >>
            >>>I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is what
            >>>someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off lasix,
            >>>
            >I
            >
            >>>believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
            >>>however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills
            >>>
            >are
            >
            >>>also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with them.
            >>>
            >>>My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being
            >>>
            >effective
            >
            >>>at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some
            >>>
            >research
            >
            >>>on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can build
            >>>
            >up
            >
            >>>tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used. However,
            >>>
            >I
            >
            >>>have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever recommended
            >>>
            >a
            >
            >>>different diuretic.
            >>>
            >>>For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or
            >>>
            >5mg
            >
            >>>a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of the
            >>>vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it was
            >>>
            >a
            >
            >>>risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective
            >>>
            >and
            >
            >>>the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
            >>>(expensive and stressful for my cat).
            >>>
            >>>--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>>>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the
            >>>>
            >left
            >
            >>>and I
            >>>
            >>>>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched
            >>>>
            >vets
            >
            >>>and
            >>>
            >>>>have another appt today and will ask him...
            >>>>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
            >>>>
            >>>>VHess2000@c... wrote:
            >>>>
            >>>>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably
            >>>>>
            >has
            >
            >>>the worse
            >>>
            >>>>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear,
            >>>>>
            >>>why cats get
            >>>
            >>>>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
            >>>>>
            >>>problem. On
            >>>
            >>>>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
            >>>>>
            >>>diagnosis.
            >>>
            >>>>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I suspect
            >>>>>
            >>>that your cat
            >>>
            >>>>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed to
            >>>>>
            >>>most readers
            >>>
            >>>>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement
            >>>>>
            >only.
            >
            >>>Hearts
            >>>
            >>>>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
            >>>>>
            >>>fluid. You could
            >>>
            >>>>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
            >>>>>
            >>>would strongly
            >>>
            >>>>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which can
            >>>>>
            >>>relieve
            >>>
            >>>>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a
            >>>>>
            >little
            >
            >>>more
            >>>
            >>>>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but
            >>>>>
            >saves
            >
            >>>you and the
            >>>
            >>>>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably
            >>>>>
            >have
            >
            >>>to give it
            >>>
            >>>>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
            >>>>>
            >>>Also, are you
            >>>
            >>>>>using a sodium-restricted food?
            >>>>>
            >>>>>Victoria
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >>>>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            >>>>>
            >>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >>>
            >>>>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            >>>
            >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            >
            >
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • mukki2@yahoo.com
            His name is Smer. :) Anyways, he is now on 12.5mg 2x a day. He has mitral valve insufficieny/prolapse (very rare for a cat, apparently) so that his mitral
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 2, 2001
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              His name is Smer. :) Anyways, he is now on 12.5mg 2x a day. He has
              mitral valve insufficieny/prolapse (very rare for a cat, apparently)
              so that his mitral valve does not close all of the way. As a result,
              the blood backflows from his left ventricle into his left atrium.
              Blood pressure is elevated and the heart has to work harder to
              properly oxygenate the lungs. His last and only ultrasound was in
              Jan. 2000. When he went back into the vet in Aug. 2000, they offered
              another ultrasound, but said that it wasn't really necessary, unless
              we thought we really needed to see how far the disease had
              progressed. As long as we understood that Smer's days were numbered,
              an ultrasound, in their opinion, wouldn't help matters.

              All I can say is that I wouldn't give up hope until you are sure your
              cat's quality of life has detiorated so much that he should be
              euthanized. I thought for sure that Smer would have to be euthanized
              over a year ago. For a period in the summer of 2000, he went into
              serious CHF (as in he wouldn't eat, had an hard time breathing, and
              just sat still) a couple times within one week. I would have to pill
              him and, miracle or miracles, he always pulled through. After I'd
              pill him, I'd sit in the bedroom cyring and trying to leave him alone
              so he could rest, and then, a few hours later, I'd go to the kitchen
              and he'd come running in after me, feeling better. In August, he
              stopped having serious CHF episodes, but seemed to have a hard time
              breathing, even though he still acted normally. We took him into the
              vet and his lungs were 70% filled with fluid. They drained him and he
              came home, but still didn't look great. When we moved in December,
              however, he suddenly got a lot better and the fluids totally cleared
              from his lungs. It was amazing. I maintained him that way on 25mg 2x
              a day. Then, this past July, he started to feel worse again and the
              fluid returned. He went into serious CHF a few weeks ago again, but
              I gave him an extra dose of lasix. He still has some heavy breathing
              and I'm sure some fluid, but he eats and runs around quite a bit
              (although he's not the old Smer he was).

              My main concern is that he is not in a lot of pain. I'm sure he has
              discomfort, but, like I said, still eats and lies out in the sun
              (which isn't good for his heart, I'm sure, but he loves to so much).
              Every week I wonder if this is his last, but he's still going.

              I think he has been able to take so much medication because he's such
              a healthy cat other than the heart disease. He never had any problems
              whatsoever (despite a diet of Fancy Feast, which I'd like to get him
              off of). His kidneys must have been quite healthy to take so much
              Enacard and lasix....

              Good luck with your kitty. It sounds like you are experiencing a lot
              of the same issues and feelings I have. I was so upset in the
              beginning, but now I've become accustomed to his daily problems and
              the possibility of losing him. I really wish that when it's time for
              him to go, he goes peacefully in his sleep. However, I doubt this
              will be the case! Feel free to post/email me any questions.

              Hilary

              --- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
              > wow, I can't beleive he is doing so good either-which form of
              > cardiomyopathy does he have? did you say that you are back to 12.5
              > 3xday or still on 25mg 2xday? I totally agree w. you, as does my
              vet,
              > it is chf or kidney diease so might as well control the chf and
              hope it
              > keeps them around a little longer. how was his last ultra sound?
              > curious to know because fankie was only diagnosed 6 weeks ago and
              in
              > those 6 weeks his ultrasound has shown a very rapid progressive of
              the
              > diease and they are giving us a avery poor prognosis, but he sounds
              just
              > like your kitty (p.s what is his name?) so happy and a good quality
              of
              > life inbetween epsiodes that we can't seem to see how it is ok to
              put
              > him to sleep yet, yetr like you say he can't go to the hospital
              once a
              > week. I hope this new regimen of stuff and doses will keep his
              fluids
              > down and hopefully we can catch an episodes early and tret at home
              with
              > additional lasix. you kitty gives me such hope, after his results
              from
              > yesterday I was not feeling very optimistic but maybe things will
              be
              > better then expected. thank you so much for all your info! good
              luck to
              > you and your kitty, please keep me updated nad informed-as I will
              you
              > with frankie
              >
              > alexis
              >
              > mukki2@y... wrote:
              >
              > >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
              > >
              > >>I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-so
              > >>
              > >far no
              > >
              > >>fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his
              > >>
              > >lasis
              > >
              > >>does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping.
              How
              > >>
              > >is
              > >
              > >>your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at
              > >>
              > >2.5mg and
              > >
              > >>showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him
              norvasc
              > >>instead which is suppodesly better...
              > >>
              > >
              > >Unfortunately, I have not had my cat's renal function checked
              since
              > >August '00. I know that sounds awful, but he goes ballistic when a
              > >vet tries to get blood and I am not going to put him through that
              > >stress (often goes into serious CHF the next day after the
              trauma). I
              > >haven't noticed any problems, but I've heard that you don't see
              any
              > >until it's too late. He was urinating more often (small puddles)
              the
              > >other week, but has normalized.
              > >
              > >>how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is the
              > >>
              > >lowest
              > >
              > >>lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday?
              how
              > >>
              > >long
              > >
              > >>would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you been
              > >>
              > >able to
              > >
              > >>control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope
              > >>
              > >so....
              > >
              > >He was diagnosed in Jan. '00 (went into CHF after having a dental
              > >cleaning -- obviously, a huge mistake since his teeth weren't even
              > >that bad). He started out on 12.5mg/1 pill of lasix per day,
              which
              > >controlled the fluids just fine. Then in the summer of 2000 things
              > >got worse and he had to be drained. After that, he was on 37.5mg/3
              > >pills a day, but had his ups and downs. Eventually, I was able to
              > >control the fluids for 6 months at the beginning of this year on
              25mg
              > >2x a day/ 4 pills total (he only stabilized after we moved to a
              new
              > >house where he got more exercise -- I swear that helped him even
              > >though it's is supposed to tax the heart). Anyway, he is now back
              on
              > >that amount after I noticed the change in urination. Giving him
              more
              > >doesn't seem to help much. I know he has some fluid buildup, but
              > >seems stable.
              > >
              > >>sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so
              > >>
              > >diffacult.
              > >
              > >> to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and
              > >>
              > >things
              > >
              > >>have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in
              on
              > >>
              > >the
              > >
              > >>rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better manage
              > >>frankie too
              > >>
              > >I am probably not a good example since I do exactly what the
              doctors
              > >tell me NOT to do. I change his medication according to how he
              seems
              > >to be doing. I've given him more than the recommended dose
              because,
              > >quite frankly, I figure he is either going to die from heart
              failure
              > >or kidney damage. I decided that I didn't want him to constantly
              be
              > >stressed out by vet visits (and I'm telling you THIS cat hates the
              > >vet; he's as gentle as can be normally, but when the vet lays a
              hand
              > >on him... watch out). Plus, it cost at least $600 every time he
              had
              > >to go in and stay the night. The only other alternative to me
              would
              > >be to euthanize him now, which I don't think is appropriate,
              > >particularly when I still see him rolling in the sunshine in the
              > >backyard and looking thoroughly content. When he stops eating and
              > >enjoying life, then the vet who makes home visits will euthanize
              him
              > >in the comfort of our own home. To me, the quality of his life is
              > >much more important than quantity. That vet is actually extremely
              > >surprised that my cat is still alive.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >>thanx
              > >>alexis
              > >>
              > >>mukki2@y... wrote:
              > >>
              > >>>I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is
              what
              > >>>someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off
              lasix,
              > >>>
              > >I
              > >
              > >>>believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
              > >>>however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills
              > >>>
              > >are
              > >
              > >>>also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with
              them.
              > >>>
              > >>>My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being
              > >>>
              > >effective
              > >
              > >>>at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some
              > >>>
              > >research
              > >
              > >>>on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can
              build
              > >>>
              > >up
              > >
              > >>>tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used.
              However,
              > >>>
              > >I
              > >
              > >>>have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever
              recommended
              > >>>
              > >a
              > >
              > >>>different diuretic.
              > >>>
              > >>>For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day
              (or
              > >>>
              > >5mg
              > >
              > >>>a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of
              the
              > >>>vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it
              was
              > >>>
              > >a
              > >
              > >>>risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective
              > >>>
              > >and
              > >
              > >>>the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
              > >>>(expensive and stressful for my cat).
              > >>>
              > >>>--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>>>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the
              > >>>>
              > >left
              > >
              > >>>and I
              > >>>
              > >>>>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched
              > >>>>
              > >vets
              > >
              > >>>and
              > >>>
              > >>>>have another appt today and will ask him...
              > >>>>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
              > >>>>
              > >>>>VHess2000@c... wrote:
              > >>>>
              > >>>>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably
              > >>>>>
              > >has
              > >
              > >>>the worse
              > >>>
              > >>>>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is
              unclear,
              > >>>>>
              > >>>why cats get
              > >>>
              > >>>>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
              > >>>>>
              > >>>problem. On
              > >>>
              > >>>>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
              > >>>>>
              > >>>diagnosis.
              > >>>
              > >>>>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I
              suspect
              > >>>>>
              > >>>that your cat
              > >>>
              > >>>>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed
              to
              > >>>>>
              > >>>most readers
              > >>>
              > >>>>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement
              > >>>>>
              > >only.
              > >
              > >>>Hearts
              > >>>
              > >>>>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
              > >>>>>
              > >>>fluid. You could
              > >>>
              > >>>>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
              > >>>>>
              > >>>would strongly
              > >>>
              > >>>>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which
              can
              > >>>>>
              > >>>relieve
              > >>>
              > >>>>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a
              > >>>>>
              > >little
              > >
              > >>>more
              > >>>
              > >>>>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but
              > >>>>>
              > >saves
              > >
              > >>>you and the
              > >>>
              > >>>>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably
              > >>>>>
              > >have
              > >
              > >>>to give it
              > >>>
              > >>>>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>Also, are you
              > >>>
              > >>>>>using a sodium-restricted food?
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>Victoria
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > >>>>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > >>>>>
              > >>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > >>>
              > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • flyerfan@blazenet.net
              I have been reading your posts and while Dom does not get any of the drugs etc. that your cats are taking, I just wanted to add that when it comes to the
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 2, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                I have been reading your posts and while Dom does not get any of the
                drugs etc. that your cats are taking, I just wanted to add that when
                it comes to the heart--you just can't predict what is ever going to
                happen! Most on this board rememeber my problems with Dom and that I
                totally stopped all heart meds, cardiologist visits, blood draws,
                ultrasounds etc. last March. Dom does have HCM and had 4 or 5
                ultrasounds before March. He was diagnosed December 1999. I was told
                that remeoving him from the drugs etc. would probably shorten his
                life but we decided to go with a shorter quality of life for him
                rather than quantity. We do still see the regular vet frequently as
                Dom has allergies and also asthma. We are in the midst of another hot
                spot break out and are trying to deal with it without the steroids as
                they cause him to have labored breathing now. We aren't sure if it is
                a reaction to the steroid or an asthma attack but we are trying to
                avoid it if possible. I am using a topical and the jury is still out
                on whether it will work or if we will end up with the Depo injection.

                My whole point in this is to say that these guys can be amazing! Dom
                is still doing quite well considering his prognosis almost 2 years
                ago. He still runs around the house, loves to eat and is our baby! He
                shows no signs of having a cardiac problem and our vet is amazed
                because of his having asthma also. He says Dom is on his second nine
                lives and we will continue to enjoy our time with him until he shows
                signs of being in some kind of distress. He too hates vets and blood
                draws are an impossibility as they have learned. It seems that he is
                having less problems since we have stopped stressing him. We are very
                lucky to have a vet who understands where we are coming from and he
                agrees that this is certainly the best for Dom. He does make house
                calls for Dom if I need him. And he is always willing to talk on the
                phone as he lets me call the shots on what we want to do. He gives me
                the options and I make my choice and of course, I always ask his
                opinion too. This all makes it alot easier for Dom and me. I know we
                are living on so called borrowed time but Dom has had a great 7
                months so I will never complain. When we were forcing the drugs, vet
                trips, blood draws etc. on him it just wasn't working. We almost lost
                him twice from drug toxicities etc. before we called it off. I am not
                suggesting that any of you stop meds as each cat is different and
                your cat may NEED the meds to live. We have found that Dom just
                wasn't 1 of them. Dom still has never built up fluid that I am aware
                of. He was a 3 when diagnosed and had left side wall thickening,
                enlargement of the heart and an aortic valve leak. He is 7 years old
                and weighs 16 pounds. He hasn't had an ultrasound for 7 months and
                won't be having any in the future. As long as he has a quality of
                life we will keep him with us but we also will PTS when his condition
                deteriorates to the point where he is in pain or struggling with
                life. It will be my last gift to him and like you said, we all hope
                that we just find them 1 day but I am not expecting it to go that
                smoothly! LOL Dom just doesn't do anything easy!!

                Good luck to you and your cats!
                Jeanne, Dom, Bono & Louie



                --- In feline-heart@y..., mukki2@y... wrote:
                > His name is Smer. :) Anyways, he is now on 12.5mg 2x a day. He has
                > mitral valve insufficieny/prolapse (very rare for a cat,
                apparently)
                > so that his mitral valve does not close all of the way. As a
                result,
                > the blood backflows from his left ventricle into his left atrium.
                > Blood pressure is elevated and the heart has to work harder to
                > properly oxygenate the lungs. His last and only ultrasound was in
                > Jan. 2000. When he went back into the vet in Aug. 2000, they
                offered
                > another ultrasound, but said that it wasn't really necessary,
                unless
                > we thought we really needed to see how far the disease had
                > progressed. As long as we understood that Smer's days were
                numbered,
                > an ultrasound, in their opinion, wouldn't help matters.
                >
                > All I can say is that I wouldn't give up hope until you are sure
                your
                > cat's quality of life has detiorated so much that he should be
                > euthanized. I thought for sure that Smer would have to be
                euthanized
                > over a year ago. For a period in the summer of 2000, he went into
                > serious CHF (as in he wouldn't eat, had an hard time breathing, and
                > just sat still) a couple times within one week. I would have to
                pill
                > him and, miracle or miracles, he always pulled through. After I'd
                > pill him, I'd sit in the bedroom cyring and trying to leave him
                alone
                > so he could rest, and then, a few hours later, I'd go to the
                kitchen
                > and he'd come running in after me, feeling better. In August, he
                > stopped having serious CHF episodes, but seemed to have a hard time
                > breathing, even though he still acted normally. We took him into
                the
                > vet and his lungs were 70% filled with fluid. They drained him and
                he
                > came home, but still didn't look great. When we moved in December,
                > however, he suddenly got a lot better and the fluids totally
                cleared
                > from his lungs. It was amazing. I maintained him that way on 25mg
                2x
                > a day. Then, this past July, he started to feel worse again and the
                > fluid returned. He went into serious CHF a few weeks ago again,
                but
                > I gave him an extra dose of lasix. He still has some heavy
                breathing
                > and I'm sure some fluid, but he eats and runs around quite a bit
                > (although he's not the old Smer he was).
                >
                > My main concern is that he is not in a lot of pain. I'm sure he has
                > discomfort, but, like I said, still eats and lies out in the sun
                > (which isn't good for his heart, I'm sure, but he loves to so
                much).
                > Every week I wonder if this is his last, but he's still going.
                >
                > I think he has been able to take so much medication because he's
                such
                > a healthy cat other than the heart disease. He never had any
                problems
                > whatsoever (despite a diet of Fancy Feast, which I'd like to get
                him
                > off of). His kidneys must have been quite healthy to take so much
                > Enacard and lasix....
                >
                > Good luck with your kitty. It sounds like you are experiencing a
                lot
                > of the same issues and feelings I have. I was so upset in the
                > beginning, but now I've become accustomed to his daily problems and
                > the possibility of losing him. I really wish that when it's time
                for
                > him to go, he goes peacefully in his sleep. However, I doubt this
                > will be the case! Feel free to post/email me any questions.
                >
                > Hilary
                >
                > --- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                > > wow, I can't beleive he is doing so good either-which form of
                > > cardiomyopathy does he have? did you say that you are back to
                12.5
                > > 3xday or still on 25mg 2xday? I totally agree w. you, as does my
                > vet,
                > > it is chf or kidney diease so might as well control the chf and
                > hope it
                > > keeps them around a little longer. how was his last ultra sound?
                > > curious to know because fankie was only diagnosed 6 weeks ago and
                > in
                > > those 6 weeks his ultrasound has shown a very rapid progressive
                of
                > the
                > > diease and they are giving us a avery poor prognosis, but he
                sounds
                > just
                > > like your kitty (p.s what is his name?) so happy and a good
                quality
                > of
                > > life inbetween epsiodes that we can't seem to see how it is ok to
                > put
                > > him to sleep yet, yetr like you say he can't go to the hospital
                > once a
                > > week. I hope this new regimen of stuff and doses will keep his
                > fluids
                > > down and hopefully we can catch an episodes early and tret at
                home
                > with
                > > additional lasix. you kitty gives me such hope, after his
                results
                > from
                > > yesterday I was not feeling very optimistic but maybe things will
                > be
                > > better then expected. thank you so much for all your info! good
                > luck to
                > > you and your kitty, please keep me updated nad informed-as I will
                > you
                > > with frankie
                > >
                > > alexis
                > >
                > > mukki2@y... wrote:
                > >
                > > >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >>I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-
                so
                > > >>
                > > >far no
                > > >
                > > >>fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his
                > > >>
                > > >lasis
                > > >
                > > >>does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping.
                > How
                > > >>
                > > >is
                > > >
                > > >>your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at
                > > >>
                > > >2.5mg and
                > > >
                > > >>showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him
                > norvasc
                > > >>instead which is suppodesly better...
                > > >>
                > > >
                > > >Unfortunately, I have not had my cat's renal function checked
                > since
                > > >August '00. I know that sounds awful, but he goes ballistic when
                a
                > > >vet tries to get blood and I am not going to put him through
                that
                > > >stress (often goes into serious CHF the next day after the
                > trauma). I
                > > >haven't noticed any problems, but I've heard that you don't see
                > any
                > > >until it's too late. He was urinating more often (small puddles)
                > the
                > > >other week, but has normalized.
                > > >
                > > >>how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is
                the
                > > >>
                > > >lowest
                > > >
                > > >>lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday?
                > how
                > > >>
                > > >long
                > > >
                > > >>would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you
                been
                > > >>
                > > >able to
                > > >
                > > >>control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope
                > > >>
                > > >so....
                > > >
                > > >He was diagnosed in Jan. '00 (went into CHF after having a
                dental
                > > >cleaning -- obviously, a huge mistake since his teeth weren't
                even
                > > >that bad). He started out on 12.5mg/1 pill of lasix per day,
                > which
                > > >controlled the fluids just fine. Then in the summer of 2000
                things
                > > >got worse and he had to be drained. After that, he was on
                37.5mg/3
                > > >pills a day, but had his ups and downs. Eventually, I was able
                to
                > > >control the fluids for 6 months at the beginning of this year on
                > 25mg
                > > >2x a day/ 4 pills total (he only stabilized after we moved to a
                > new
                > > >house where he got more exercise -- I swear that helped him even
                > > >though it's is supposed to tax the heart). Anyway, he is now
                back
                > on
                > > >that amount after I noticed the change in urination. Giving him
                > more
                > > >doesn't seem to help much. I know he has some fluid buildup, but
                > > >seems stable.
                > > >
                > > >>sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so
                > > >>
                > > >diffacult.
                > > >
                > > >> to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and
                > > >>
                > > >things
                > > >
                > > >>have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in
                > on
                > > >>
                > > >the
                > > >
                > > >>rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better
                manage
                > > >>frankie too
                > > >>
                > > >I am probably not a good example since I do exactly what the
                > doctors
                > > >tell me NOT to do. I change his medication according to how he
                > seems
                > > >to be doing. I've given him more than the recommended dose
                > because,
                > > >quite frankly, I figure he is either going to die from heart
                > failure
                > > >or kidney damage. I decided that I didn't want him to constantly
                > be
                > > >stressed out by vet visits (and I'm telling you THIS cat hates
                the
                > > >vet; he's as gentle as can be normally, but when the vet lays a
                > hand
                > > >on him... watch out). Plus, it cost at least $600 every time he
                > had
                > > >to go in and stay the night. The only other alternative to me
                > would
                > > >be to euthanize him now, which I don't think is appropriate,
                > > >particularly when I still see him rolling in the sunshine in the
                > > >backyard and looking thoroughly content. When he stops eating
                and
                > > >enjoying life, then the vet who makes home visits will euthanize
                > him
                > > >in the comfort of our own home. To me, the quality of his life
                is
                > > >much more important than quantity. That vet is actually
                extremely
                > > >surprised that my cat is still alive.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >>thanx
                > > >>alexis
                > > >>
                > > >>mukki2@y... wrote:
                > > >>
                > > >>>I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is
                > what
                > > >>>someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off
                > lasix,
                > > >>>
                > > >I
                > > >
                > > >>>believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
                > > >>>however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The
                pills
                > > >>>
                > > >are
                > > >
                > > >>>also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with
                > them.
                > > >>>
                > > >>>My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being
                > > >>>
                > > >effective
                > > >
                > > >>>at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some
                > > >>>
                > > >research
                > > >
                > > >>>on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can
                > build
                > > >>>
                > > >up
                > > >
                > > >>>tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used.
                > However,
                > > >>>
                > > >I
                > > >
                > > >>>have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever
                > recommended
                > > >>>
                > > >a
                > > >
                > > >>>different diuretic.
                > > >>>
                > > >>>For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day
                > (or
                > > >>>
                > > >5mg
                > > >
                > > >>>a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of
                > the
                > > >>>vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it
                > was
                > > >>>
                > > >a
                > > >
                > > >>>risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not
                effective
                > > >>>
                > > >and
                > > >
                > > >>>the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
                > > >>>(expensive and stressful for my cat).
                > > >>>
                > > >>>--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the
                > > >>>>
                > > >left
                > > >
                > > >>>and I
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have
                switched
                > > >>>>
                > > >vets
                > > >
                > > >>>and
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>have another appt today and will ask him...
                > > >>>>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
                > > >>>>
                > > >>>>VHess2000@c... wrote:
                > > >>>>
                > > >>>>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which
                probably
                > > >>>>>
                > > >has
                > > >
                > > >>>the worse
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is
                > unclear,
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>why cats get
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an
                autoimmune
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>problem. On
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months
                after
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>diagnosis.
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I
                > suspect
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>that your cat
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as
                opposed
                > to
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>most readers
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement
                > > >>>>>
                > > >only.
                > > >
                > > >>>Hearts
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>fluid. You could
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but
                I
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>would strongly
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which
                > can
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>relieve
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a
                > > >>>>>
                > > >little
                > > >
                > > >>>more
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but
                > > >>>>>
                > > >saves
                > > >
                > > >>>you and the
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd
                probably
                > > >>>>>
                > > >have
                > > >
                > > >>>to give it
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral
                lasix.
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>Also, are you
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>using a sodium-restricted food?
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>>>Victoria
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > >>>>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > >>>
                > > >>>>>
                > > >>>
                > > >>>
                > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                > > >>>
                > > >>>
                > > >>>
                > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > >>>
                > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > >
                > > >>>
                > > >>>
                > > >>
                > > >>
                > > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >>
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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