Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

help! hard to control intermediate cardimyopathy

Expand Messages
  • cozycat@rcn.com
    lookig for anyone who may have had similar experiences....frankie was diagnosed with intermediate or restricitive cardiomyopathy 8/19 and we are having a very
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 26, 2001
      lookig for anyone who may have had similar experiences....frankie was
      diagnosed with intermediate or restricitive cardiomyopathy 8/19 and we
      are having a very hard time getting it under control. first off, he
      has no murmur as would usuallu be detected adn only got diagnosed
      because he was having trouble breathing and xray soed full blown
      pulmanary edema with no lknown cause. when that cleared they were abe
      lto see in xray that heart look slighlty enlarged so did ultrasound
      and camo up with an iffy dx of intermediate cardiomyopathy.
      he started taking enacard 1.25 daily and lasix only at 6/25 every
      other dsay because they thouyght it was very minor. (frnakie is also
      only 4 and very healthy betqwen episodes)
      for the past 5 weeks he has had fliud build up every week to the point
      of hospitalization. he is now on 2.5 enacard daily and 12.5 lasix
      2xday! and this still is not controlling the fliud buildup. It is
      very frustrating because when hw goes in to the hosptial he fixes up
      so easily and is so good for 7-10days and hen has another episode
      because ihe is obviuosly not controoled well on meds yet.
      has anyone had similar problems??? perhaps been misdiagnosed? we
      went to a new vet yesterday who thought something else besdie a mild
      heart condition could be cauaing the fluid build up and so maybe he is
      being treated the wrong methods...so he is waiting for the
      cardio;ogist to re-examing this week, but inthe meantime, frankie
      could have another episode. lookimg for anyone with with ideas based
      o nthere own experience etc. plus, want o add dandelion to help
      fliud retention -, has anyone used dandeliion in conjunction with lasix ?
    • cozycat@rcn.com
      lookig for anyone who may have had similar experiences....frankie was diagnosed with intermediate or restricitive cardiomyopathy 8/19 and we are having a very
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 26, 2001
        lookig for anyone who may have had similar experiences....frankie was
        diagnosed with intermediate or restricitive cardiomyopathy 8/19 and we
        are having a very hard time getting it under control. first off, he
        has no murmur as would usuallu be detected adn only got diagnosed
        because he was having trouble breathing and xray soed full blown
        pulmanary edema with no lknown cause. when that cleared they were abe
        lto see in xray that heart look slighlty enlarged so did ultrasound
        and camo up with an iffy dx of intermediate cardiomyopathy.
        he started taking enacard 1.25 daily and lasix only at 6/25 every
        other dsay because they thouyght it was very minor. (frnakie is also
        only 4 and very healthy betqwen episodes)
        for the past 5 weeks he has had fliud build up every week to the point
        of hospitalization. he is now on 2.5 enacard daily and 12.5 lasix
        2xday! and this still is not controlling the fliud buildup. It is
        very frustrating because when hw goes in to the hosptial he fixes up
        so easily and is so good for 7-10days and hen has another episode
        because ihe is obviuosly not controoled well on meds yet.
        has anyone had similar problems??? perhaps been misdiagnosed? we
        went to a new vet yesterday who thought something else besdie a mild
        heart condition could be cauaing the fluid build up and so maybe he is
        being treated the wrong methods...so he is waiting for the
        cardio;ogist to re-examing this week, but inthe meantime, frankie
        could have another episode. lookimg for anyone with with ideas based
        o nthere own experience etc. plus, want o add dandelion to help
        fliud retention -, has anyone used dandeliion in conjunction with lasix ?
      • Jonathan Rosenberg
        I m sorry to hear about Frankie s copndition. Has he been to see a vet cardiologist? If not, I recommend you get him to one ASAP. The cardiologist will
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 26, 2001
          I'm sorry to hear about Frankie's copndition. Has he been to see
          a vet cardiologist? If not, I recommend you get him to one ASAP.
          The cardiologist will almost certainly do an ultrasound, which is
          the best way to diagnose his heart condition & determine
          appropriate treatment.

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: cozycat@... [mailto:cozycat@...]
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:11 AM
          > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [feline-heart] help! hard to control
          > intermediate cardimyopathy
          >
          >
          > lookig for anyone who may have had similar
          > experiences....frankie was
          > diagnosed with intermediate or restricitive
          > cardiomyopathy 8/19 and we
          > are having a very hard time getting it under control.
          > first off, he
          > has no murmur as would usuallu be detected adn only
          > got diagnosed
          > because he was having trouble breathing and xray soed
          > full blown
          > pulmanary edema with no lknown cause. when that
          > cleared they were abe
          > lto see in xray that heart look slighlty enlarged so
          > did ultrasound
          > and camo up with an iffy dx of intermediate cardiomyopathy.
          > he started taking enacard 1.25 daily and lasix only at
          > 6/25 every
          > other dsay because they thouyght it was very minor.
          > (frnakie is also
          > only 4 and very healthy betqwen episodes)
          > for the past 5 weeks he has had fliud build up every
          > week to the point
          > of hospitalization. he is now on 2.5 enacard daily
          > and 12.5 lasix
          > 2xday! and this still is not controlling the fliud
          > buildup. It is
          > very frustrating because when hw goes in to the
          > hosptial he fixes up
          > so easily and is so good for 7-10days and hen has
          > another episode
          > because ihe is obviuosly not controoled well on meds yet.
          > has anyone had similar problems??? perhaps been
          > misdiagnosed? we
          > went to a new vet yesterday who thought something else
          > besdie a mild
          > heart condition could be cauaing the fluid build up
          > and so maybe he is
          > being treated the wrong methods...so he is waiting for the
          > cardio;ogist to re-examing this week, but inthe
          > meantime, frankie
          > could have another episode. lookimg for anyone with
          > with ideas based
          > o nthere own experience etc. plus, want o add
          > dandelion to help
          > fliud retention -, has anyone used dandeliion in
          > conjunction with lasix ?
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • cozycat@rcn.com
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 26, 2001
            --- In feline-heart@y..., "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jr40@r...> wrote:
            > I'm sorry to hear about Frankie's copndition. Has he been to see
            > a vet cardiologist? If not, I recommend you get him to one ASAP.
            > The cardiologist will almost certainly do an ultrasound, which is
            > the best way to diagnose his heart condition & determine
            > appropriate treatment.
            >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: cozycat@r... [mailto:cozycat@r...]
            > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:11 AM
            > > To: feline-heart@y...
            > > Subject: [feline-heart] help! hard to control
            > > intermediate cardimyopathy
            > >
            > >
            > > lookig for anyone who may have had similar
            > > experiences....frankie was
            > > diagnosed with intermediate or restricitive
            > > cardiomyopathy 8/19 and we
            > > are having a very hard time getting it under control.
            > > first off, he
            > > has no murmur as would usuallu be detected adn only
            > > got diagnosed
            > > because he was having trouble breathing and xray soed
            > > full blown
            > > pulmanary edema with no lknown cause. when that
            > > cleared they were abe
            > > lto see in xray that heart look slighlty enlarged so
            > > did ultrasound
            > > and camo up with an iffy dx of intermediate cardiomyopathy.
            > > he started taking enacard 1.25 daily and lasix only at
            > > 6/25 every
            > > other dsay because they thouyght it was very minor.
            > > (frnakie is also
            > > only 4 and very healthy betqwen episodes)
            > > for the past 5 weeks he has had fliud build up every
            > > week to the point
            > > of hospitalization. he is now on 2.5 enacard daily
            > > and 12.5 lasix
            > > 2xday! and this still is not controlling the fliud
            > > buildup. It is
            > > very frustrating because when hw goes in to the
            > > hosptial he fixes up
            > > so easily and is so good for 7-10days and hen has
            > > another episode
            > > because ihe is obviuosly not controoled well on meds yet.
            > > has anyone had similar problems??? perhaps been
            > > misdiagnosed? we
            > > went to a new vet yesterday who thought something else
            > > besdie a mild
            > > heart condition could be cauaing the fluid build up
            > > and so maybe he is
            > > being treated the wrong methods...so he is waiting for the
            > > cardio;ogist to re-examing this week, but inthe
            > > meantime, frankie
            > > could have another episode. lookimg for anyone with
            > > with ideas based
            > > o nthere own experience etc. plus, want o add
            > > dandelion to help
            > > fliud retention -, has anyone used dandeliion in
            > > conjunction with lasix ?
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >thanx but if you read my whole meassage you will see that is all there
          • VHess2000@cs.com
            My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably has the worse prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear, why cats get it --
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 26, 2001
              My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably has the worse
              prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear, why cats get
              it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune problem. On
              average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after diagnosis.
              Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I suspect that your cat
              might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed to most readers
              on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement only. Hearts
              with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with fluid. You could
              try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I would strongly
              suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which can relieve
              fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a little more
              difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but saves you and the
              cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably have to give it
              1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix. Also, are you
              using a sodium-restricted food?

              Victoria
            • Jan
              A&M put my Pretty Girl on lasix, along with Spironolactone which is a posassium sparing diuretic (along with a ton of other meds). Pretty Girl s hyper-t is
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 26, 2001
                A&M put my Pretty Girl on lasix, along with Spironolactone which is a
                posassium sparing diuretic (along with a ton of other meds). Pretty Girl's
                hyper-t is what ruined her heart. Has your baby been checked for hyper-t?
                Sending prayers to you both....
                Jan

                http://joekopecky.homestead.com
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <cozycat@...>
                To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:10 AM
                Subject: [feline-heart] help! hard to control intermediate cardimyopathy


                > lookig for anyone who may have had similar experiences....frankie was
                > diagnosed with intermediate or restricitive cardiomyopathy 8/19 and we
                > are having a very hard time getting it under control. first off, he
                > has no murmur as would usuallu be detected adn only got diagnosed
                > because he was having trouble breathing and xray soed full blown
                > pulmanary edema with no lknown cause. when that cleared they were abe
                > lto see in xray that heart look slighlty enlarged so did ultrasound
                > and camo up with an iffy dx of intermediate cardiomyopathy.
                > he started taking enacard 1.25 daily and lasix only at 6/25 every
                > other dsay because they thouyght it was very minor. (frnakie is also
                > only 4 and very healthy betqwen episodes)
                > for the past 5 weeks he has had fliud build up every week to the point
                > of hospitalization. he is now on 2.5 enacard daily and 12.5 lasix
                > 2xday! and this still is not controlling the fliud buildup. It is
                > very frustrating because when hw goes in to the hosptial he fixes up
                > so easily and is so good for 7-10days and hen has another episode
                > because ihe is obviuosly not controoled well on meds yet.
                > has anyone had similar problems??? perhaps been misdiagnosed? we
                > went to a new vet yesterday who thought something else besdie a mild
                > heart condition could be cauaing the fluid build up and so maybe he is
                > being treated the wrong methods...so he is waiting for the
                > cardio;ogist to re-examing this week, but inthe meantime, frankie
                > could have another episode. lookimg for anyone with with ideas based
                > o nthere own experience etc. plus, want o add dandelion to help
                > fliud retention -, has anyone used dandeliion in conjunction with lasix ?
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • Jan
                Pretty Girl was also put on taurine (250 mg) per day. They were not sure if she needed it, but said it could only help. Jan http://joekopecky.homestead.com
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 26, 2001
                  Pretty Girl was also put on taurine (250 mg) per day. They were not sure if
                  she needed it, but said it could only help.
                  Jan

                  http://joekopecky.homestead.com
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Sandler, Zellene E. <zellene.sandler@...>
                  To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:07 AM
                  Subject: RE: [feline-heart] help! hard to control intermediate cardimyopathy


                  > If Frankie has restrictive cardiomyopathy, it's my understanding that this
                  > is caused by a taurine deficiency and large doses of this are needed to
                  > reverse the damage. I think restrictive cardiomyopathy is one form that
                  can
                  > be reversed since it is a nutritional deficiency. I'm not sure what is
                  meant
                  > by "intermediate" cardiomyopathy, though. There is info about using
                  > dandelion as a diuretic on the holisticat site...the list owner had a cat
                  > with HCM and used it. The site is www.holisticat.com and look in the
                  > archives and/or subscribe to their list.
                  >
                  > z
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Alexis Snyder
                  thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the left and I did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched vets and have another
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 27, 2001
                    thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the left and I
                    did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched vets and
                    have another appt today and will ask him...
                    how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?

                    VHess2000@... wrote:

                    >My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably has the worse
                    >prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear, why cats get
                    >it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune problem. On
                    >average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after diagnosis.
                    >Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I suspect that your cat
                    >might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed to most readers
                    >on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement only. Hearts
                    >with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with fluid. You could
                    >try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I would strongly
                    >suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which can relieve
                    >fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a little more
                    >difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but saves you and the
                    >cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably have to give it
                    >1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix. Also, are you
                    >using a sodium-restricted food?
                    >
                    >Victoria
                    >
                    >
                    >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • VHess2000@cs.com
                    I never used dandelion, as Kira s fluid problem was managed with oral lasix. On one occassion, a week after suffering her first blood clot, she went into
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 27, 2001
                      I never used dandelion, as Kira's fluid problem was managed with oral lasix.
                      On one occassion, a week after suffering her first blood clot, she went into
                      severe congestive heart failure, and respiratory distress. The vet said she
                      would be dead in 48 hours even with aggressive treatment. I wanted to make
                      her comfortable so I could bring her home overnight before having her PTS in
                      the morning, and asked that she be given injectable lasix in lieu of a chest
                      tap which would have been painful and stressful. The injection caused her to
                      urinate 14x in a 7 hour period, and by 6:00 she was awake, alert, breathing
                      nearly normally, and meowing for food. She made a rapid recovery after that,
                      and lived another 6 months before suffering another blood clot, without any
                      physical limitations, and maintained on oral lasix and enelapril, even though
                      she had damage to both ventricles. I always kept imjectable lasix in the
                      house, just in cause she had a rapid build-up of fluid, but never needed to
                      use it. The holisticat website offers some information on alternative
                      remedies, including dandelion for cardiomyopathy.

                      Victoria
                    • Alexis Snyder
                      HI again, this is always the case with frankie too.....about once a week he gets very bad fluif buildup and needs additinal lasix and oxygen-sometimes
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 28, 2001
                        HI again,
                        this is always the case with frankie too.....about once a week he gets
                        very bad fluif buildup and needs additinal lasix and oxygen-sometimes
                        nitrogylcerin
                        he is currently taking 2.5 mg enacard (enelepril) 1xday and 12.5mg lasix
                        3xday

                        how much medication was kira on?

                        VHess2000@... wrote:

                        >I never used dandelion, as Kira's fluid problem was managed with oral lasix.
                        >On one occassion, a week after suffering her first blood clot, she went into
                        >severe congestive heart failure, and respiratory distress. The vet said she
                        >would be dead in 48 hours even with aggressive treatment. I wanted to make
                        >her comfortable so I could bring her home overnight before having her PTS in
                        >the morning, and asked that she be given injectable lasix in lieu of a chest
                        >tap which would have been painful and stressful. The injection caused her to
                        >urinate 14x in a 7 hour period, and by 6:00 she was awake, alert, breathing
                        >nearly normally, and meowing for food. She made a rapid recovery after that,
                        >and lived another 6 months before suffering another blood clot, without any
                        >physical limitations, and maintained on oral lasix and enelapril, even though
                        >she had damage to both ventricles. I always kept imjectable lasix in the
                        >house, just in cause she had a rapid build-up of fluid, but never needed to
                        >use it. The holisticat website offers some information on alternative
                        >remedies, including dandelion for cardiomyopathy.
                        >
                        >Victoria
                        >
                        >
                        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • VHess2000@cs.com
                        She was on 2.5 mg Enalapril daily, and 12.5 mg of HCTZ (lasix, daily). The injectable lasix I have looks like about 1.5 ccs (hard to tell for sure). Plus mg
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 28, 2001
                          She was on 2.5 mg Enalapril daily, and 12.5 mg of HCTZ (lasix, daily). The
                          injectable lasix I have looks like about 1.5 ccs (hard to tell for sure).
                          Plus mg CoQ10, and bilberr - don't remember the dosage on bilberry.

                          VH
                        • Alexis Snyder
                          what is the bilberry for??
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 29, 2001
                            what is the bilberry for??

                            VHess2000@... wrote:

                            >She was on 2.5 mg Enalapril daily, and 12.5 mg of HCTZ (lasix, daily). The
                            >injectable lasix I have looks like about 1.5 ccs (hard to tell for sure).
                            >Plus mg CoQ10, and bilberr - don't remember the dosage on bilberry.
                            >
                            >VH
                            >
                            >
                            >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • VHess2000@cs.com
                            It strengthens blood vessels, helps in the development of collatoral blood supply (important after a blood clot), may help inhibit and break up clots, and may
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 29, 2001
                              It strengthens blood vessels, helps in the development of collatoral blood
                              supply (important after a blood clot), may help inhibit and break up clots,
                              and may have diuretic properties. In humans it is used to promote
                              circulation to the eyes, and night vision in air force pilots in the UK. May
                              be useful in macular degeneration and other eye problems as well.

                              Victoria
                            • mukki2@yahoo.com
                              I don t know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is what someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off lasix, I believe, and rutin
                              Message 14 of 21 , Oct 1, 2001
                                I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is what
                                someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off lasix, I
                                believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
                                however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills are
                                also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with them.

                                My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being effective
                                at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some research
                                on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can build up
                                tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used. However, I
                                have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever recommended a
                                different diuretic.

                                For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or 5mg
                                a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of the
                                vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it was a
                                risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective and
                                the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
                                (expensive and stressful for my cat).

                                --- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                > thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the left
                                and I
                                > did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched vets
                                and
                                > have another appt today and will ask him...
                                > how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
                                >
                                > VHess2000@c... wrote:
                                >
                                > >My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably has
                                the worse
                                > >prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear,
                                why cats get
                                > >it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
                                problem. On
                                > >average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
                                diagnosis.
                                > >Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I suspect
                                that your cat
                                > >might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed to
                                most readers
                                > >on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement only.
                                Hearts
                                > >with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
                                fluid. You could
                                > >try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
                                would strongly
                                > >suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which can
                                relieve
                                > >fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a little
                                more
                                > >difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but saves
                                you and the
                                > >cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably have
                                to give it
                                > >1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
                                Also, are you
                                > >using a sodium-restricted food?
                                > >
                                > >Victoria
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                              • Alexis Snyder
                                I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-so far no fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his lasis does to 12.5
                                Message 15 of 21 , Oct 1, 2001
                                  I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-so far no
                                  fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his lasis
                                  does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping. How is
                                  your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at 2.5mg and
                                  showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him norvasc
                                  instead which is suppodesly better...
                                  how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is the lowest
                                  lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday? how long
                                  would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you been able to
                                  control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope so....
                                  sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so diffacult.
                                  to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and things
                                  have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in on the
                                  rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better manage
                                  frankie too

                                  thanx
                                  alexis

                                  mukki2@... wrote:

                                  >I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is what
                                  >someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off lasix, I
                                  >believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
                                  >however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills are
                                  >also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with them.
                                  >
                                  >My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being effective
                                  >at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some research
                                  >on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can build up
                                  >tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used. However, I
                                  >have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever recommended a
                                  >different diuretic.
                                  >
                                  >For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or 5mg
                                  >a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of the
                                  >vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it was a
                                  >risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective and
                                  >the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
                                  >(expensive and stressful for my cat).
                                  >
                                  >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the left
                                  >>
                                  >and I
                                  >
                                  >>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched vets
                                  >>
                                  >and
                                  >
                                  >>have another appt today and will ask him...
                                  >>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
                                  >>
                                  >>VHess2000@c... wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably has
                                  >>>
                                  >the worse
                                  >
                                  >>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear,
                                  >>>
                                  >why cats get
                                  >
                                  >>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
                                  >>>
                                  >problem. On
                                  >
                                  >>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
                                  >>>
                                  >diagnosis.
                                  >
                                  >>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I suspect
                                  >>>
                                  >that your cat
                                  >
                                  >>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed to
                                  >>>
                                  >most readers
                                  >
                                  >>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement only.
                                  >>>
                                  >Hearts
                                  >
                                  >>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
                                  >>>
                                  >fluid. You could
                                  >
                                  >>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
                                  >>>
                                  >would strongly
                                  >
                                  >>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which can
                                  >>>
                                  >relieve
                                  >
                                  >>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a little
                                  >>>
                                  >more
                                  >
                                  >>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but saves
                                  >>>
                                  >you and the
                                  >
                                  >>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably have
                                  >>>
                                  >to give it
                                  >
                                  >>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
                                  >>>
                                  >Also, are you
                                  >
                                  >>>using a sodium-restricted food?
                                  >>>
                                  >>>Victoria
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  >>>
                                  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Alexis Snyder
                                  p.s. frankie takes the rutin orally-is somewhat big but able to take... ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Oct 1, 2001
                                    p.s. frankie takes the rutin orally-is somewhat big but able to take...

                                    mukki2@... wrote:

                                    >I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is what
                                    >someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off lasix, I
                                    >believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
                                    >however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills are
                                    >also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with them.
                                    >
                                    >My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being effective
                                    >at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some research
                                    >on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can build up
                                    >tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used. However, I
                                    >have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever recommended a
                                    >different diuretic.
                                    >
                                    >For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or 5mg
                                    >a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of the
                                    >vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it was a
                                    >risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective and
                                    >the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
                                    >(expensive and stressful for my cat).
                                    >
                                    >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the left
                                    >>
                                    >and I
                                    >
                                    >>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched vets
                                    >>
                                    >and
                                    >
                                    >>have another appt today and will ask him...
                                    >>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
                                    >>
                                    >>VHess2000@c... wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably has
                                    >>>
                                    >the worse
                                    >
                                    >>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear,
                                    >>>
                                    >why cats get
                                    >
                                    >>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
                                    >>>
                                    >problem. On
                                    >
                                    >>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
                                    >>>
                                    >diagnosis.
                                    >
                                    >>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I suspect
                                    >>>
                                    >that your cat
                                    >
                                    >>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed to
                                    >>>
                                    >most readers
                                    >
                                    >>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement only.
                                    >>>
                                    >Hearts
                                    >
                                    >>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
                                    >>>
                                    >fluid. You could
                                    >
                                    >>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
                                    >>>
                                    >would strongly
                                    >
                                    >>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which can
                                    >>>
                                    >relieve
                                    >
                                    >>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a little
                                    >>>
                                    >more
                                    >
                                    >>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but saves
                                    >>>
                                    >you and the
                                    >
                                    >>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably have
                                    >>>
                                    >to give it
                                    >
                                    >>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
                                    >>>
                                    >Also, are you
                                    >
                                    >>>using a sodium-restricted food?
                                    >>>
                                    >>>Victoria
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    >>>
                                    >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Cynthia Rausch
                                    mukki2@yahoo.com wrote: For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or 5mg a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Oct 1, 2001
                                      mukki2@... wrote:
                                      For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or 5mg
                                      a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of the
                                      vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it was a
                                      risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective and
                                      the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
                                      (expensive and stressful for my cat).

                                      Hi,

                                      I just wanted to pass this human link on diuretics, the concern is
                                      that when on lasix potassium is lost.

                                      http://www.awl.com.au/pharma/chap40.html

                                      Cynthia, Taffy, Samuel
                                    • mukki2@yahoo.com
                                      ... far no ... lasis ... is ... 2.5mg and ... Unfortunately, I have not had my cat s renal function checked since August 00. I know that sounds awful, but he
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Oct 2, 2001
                                        --- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                        > I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-so
                                        far no
                                        > fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his
                                        lasis
                                        > does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping. How
                                        is
                                        > your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at
                                        2.5mg and
                                        > showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him norvasc
                                        > instead which is suppodesly better...

                                        Unfortunately, I have not had my cat's renal function checked since
                                        August '00. I know that sounds awful, but he goes ballistic when a
                                        vet tries to get blood and I am not going to put him through that
                                        stress (often goes into serious CHF the next day after the trauma). I
                                        haven't noticed any problems, but I've heard that you don't see any
                                        until it's too late. He was urinating more often (small puddles) the
                                        other week, but has normalized.

                                        > how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is the
                                        lowest
                                        > lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday? how
                                        long
                                        > would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you been
                                        able to
                                        > control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope
                                        so....

                                        He was diagnosed in Jan. '00 (went into CHF after having a dental
                                        cleaning -- obviously, a huge mistake since his teeth weren't even
                                        that bad). He started out on 12.5mg/1 pill of lasix per day, which
                                        controlled the fluids just fine. Then in the summer of 2000 things
                                        got worse and he had to be drained. After that, he was on 37.5mg/3
                                        pills a day, but had his ups and downs. Eventually, I was able to
                                        control the fluids for 6 months at the beginning of this year on 25mg
                                        2x a day/ 4 pills total (he only stabilized after we moved to a new
                                        house where he got more exercise -- I swear that helped him even
                                        though it's is supposed to tax the heart). Anyway, he is now back on
                                        that amount after I noticed the change in urination. Giving him more
                                        doesn't seem to help much. I know he has some fluid buildup, but
                                        seems stable.

                                        > sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so
                                        diffacult.
                                        > to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and
                                        things
                                        > have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in on
                                        the
                                        > rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better manage
                                        > frankie too
                                        >
                                        I am probably not a good example since I do exactly what the doctors
                                        tell me NOT to do. I change his medication according to how he seems
                                        to be doing. I've given him more than the recommended dose because,
                                        quite frankly, I figure he is either going to die from heart failure
                                        or kidney damage. I decided that I didn't want him to constantly be
                                        stressed out by vet visits (and I'm telling you THIS cat hates the
                                        vet; he's as gentle as can be normally, but when the vet lays a hand
                                        on him... watch out). Plus, it cost at least $600 every time he had
                                        to go in and stay the night. The only other alternative to me would
                                        be to euthanize him now, which I don't think is appropriate,
                                        particularly when I still see him rolling in the sunshine in the
                                        backyard and looking thoroughly content. When he stops eating and
                                        enjoying life, then the vet who makes home visits will euthanize him
                                        in the comfort of our own home. To me, the quality of his life is
                                        much more important than quantity. That vet is actually extremely
                                        surprised that my cat is still alive.


                                        > thanx
                                        > alexis
                                        >
                                        > mukki2@y... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is what
                                        > >someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off lasix,
                                        I
                                        > >believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
                                        > >however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills
                                        are
                                        > >also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with them.
                                        > >
                                        > >My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being
                                        effective
                                        > >at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some
                                        research
                                        > >on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can build
                                        up
                                        > >tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used. However,
                                        I
                                        > >have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever recommended
                                        a
                                        > >different diuretic.
                                        > >
                                        > >For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or
                                        5mg
                                        > >a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of the
                                        > >vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it was
                                        a
                                        > >risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective
                                        and
                                        > >the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
                                        > >(expensive and stressful for my cat).
                                        > >
                                        > >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the
                                        left
                                        > >>
                                        > >and I
                                        > >
                                        > >>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched
                                        vets
                                        > >>
                                        > >and
                                        > >
                                        > >>have another appt today and will ask him...
                                        > >>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
                                        > >>
                                        > >>VHess2000@c... wrote:
                                        > >>
                                        > >>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably
                                        has
                                        > >>>
                                        > >the worse
                                        > >
                                        > >>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear,
                                        > >>>
                                        > >why cats get
                                        > >
                                        > >>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
                                        > >>>
                                        > >problem. On
                                        > >
                                        > >>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
                                        > >>>
                                        > >diagnosis.
                                        > >
                                        > >>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I suspect
                                        > >>>
                                        > >that your cat
                                        > >
                                        > >>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed to
                                        > >>>
                                        > >most readers
                                        > >
                                        > >>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement
                                        only.
                                        > >>>
                                        > >Hearts
                                        > >
                                        > >>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
                                        > >>>
                                        > >fluid. You could
                                        > >
                                        > >>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
                                        > >>>
                                        > >would strongly
                                        > >
                                        > >>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which can
                                        > >>>
                                        > >relieve
                                        > >
                                        > >>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a
                                        little
                                        > >>>
                                        > >more
                                        > >
                                        > >>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but
                                        saves
                                        > >>>
                                        > >you and the
                                        > >
                                        > >>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably
                                        have
                                        > >>>
                                        > >to give it
                                        > >
                                        > >>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
                                        > >>>
                                        > >Also, are you
                                        > >
                                        > >>>using a sodium-restricted food?
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>Victoria
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                        > >>>
                                        > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        > >
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Alexis Snyder
                                        wow, I can t beleive he is doing so good either-which form of cardiomyopathy does he have? did you say that you are back to 12.5 3xday or still on 25mg 2xday?
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Oct 2, 2001
                                          wow, I can't beleive he is doing so good either-which form of
                                          cardiomyopathy does he have? did you say that you are back to 12.5
                                          3xday or still on 25mg 2xday? I totally agree w. you, as does my vet,
                                          it is chf or kidney diease so might as well control the chf and hope it
                                          keeps them around a little longer. how was his last ultra sound?
                                          curious to know because fankie was only diagnosed 6 weeks ago and in
                                          those 6 weeks his ultrasound has shown a very rapid progressive of the
                                          diease and they are giving us a avery poor prognosis, but he sounds just
                                          like your kitty (p.s what is his name?) so happy and a good quality of
                                          life inbetween epsiodes that we can't seem to see how it is ok to put
                                          him to sleep yet, yetr like you say he can't go to the hospital once a
                                          week. I hope this new regimen of stuff and doses will keep his fluids
                                          down and hopefully we can catch an episodes early and tret at home with
                                          additional lasix. you kitty gives me such hope, after his results from
                                          yesterday I was not feeling very optimistic but maybe things will be
                                          better then expected. thank you so much for all your info! good luck to
                                          you and your kitty, please keep me updated nad informed-as I will you
                                          with frankie

                                          alexis

                                          mukki2@... wrote:

                                          >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >>I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-so
                                          >>
                                          >far no
                                          >
                                          >>fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his
                                          >>
                                          >lasis
                                          >
                                          >>does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping. How
                                          >>
                                          >is
                                          >
                                          >>your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at
                                          >>
                                          >2.5mg and
                                          >
                                          >>showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him norvasc
                                          >>instead which is suppodesly better...
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >Unfortunately, I have not had my cat's renal function checked since
                                          >August '00. I know that sounds awful, but he goes ballistic when a
                                          >vet tries to get blood and I am not going to put him through that
                                          >stress (often goes into serious CHF the next day after the trauma). I
                                          >haven't noticed any problems, but I've heard that you don't see any
                                          >until it's too late. He was urinating more often (small puddles) the
                                          >other week, but has normalized.
                                          >
                                          >>how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is the
                                          >>
                                          >lowest
                                          >
                                          >>lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday? how
                                          >>
                                          >long
                                          >
                                          >>would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you been
                                          >>
                                          >able to
                                          >
                                          >>control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope
                                          >>
                                          >so....
                                          >
                                          >He was diagnosed in Jan. '00 (went into CHF after having a dental
                                          >cleaning -- obviously, a huge mistake since his teeth weren't even
                                          >that bad). He started out on 12.5mg/1 pill of lasix per day, which
                                          >controlled the fluids just fine. Then in the summer of 2000 things
                                          >got worse and he had to be drained. After that, he was on 37.5mg/3
                                          >pills a day, but had his ups and downs. Eventually, I was able to
                                          >control the fluids for 6 months at the beginning of this year on 25mg
                                          >2x a day/ 4 pills total (he only stabilized after we moved to a new
                                          >house where he got more exercise -- I swear that helped him even
                                          >though it's is supposed to tax the heart). Anyway, he is now back on
                                          >that amount after I noticed the change in urination. Giving him more
                                          >doesn't seem to help much. I know he has some fluid buildup, but
                                          >seems stable.
                                          >
                                          >>sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so
                                          >>
                                          >diffacult.
                                          >
                                          >> to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and
                                          >>
                                          >things
                                          >
                                          >>have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in on
                                          >>
                                          >the
                                          >
                                          >>rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better manage
                                          >>frankie too
                                          >>
                                          >I am probably not a good example since I do exactly what the doctors
                                          >tell me NOT to do. I change his medication according to how he seems
                                          >to be doing. I've given him more than the recommended dose because,
                                          >quite frankly, I figure he is either going to die from heart failure
                                          >or kidney damage. I decided that I didn't want him to constantly be
                                          >stressed out by vet visits (and I'm telling you THIS cat hates the
                                          >vet; he's as gentle as can be normally, but when the vet lays a hand
                                          >on him... watch out). Plus, it cost at least $600 every time he had
                                          >to go in and stay the night. The only other alternative to me would
                                          >be to euthanize him now, which I don't think is appropriate,
                                          >particularly when I still see him rolling in the sunshine in the
                                          >backyard and looking thoroughly content. When he stops eating and
                                          >enjoying life, then the vet who makes home visits will euthanize him
                                          >in the comfort of our own home. To me, the quality of his life is
                                          >much more important than quantity. That vet is actually extremely
                                          >surprised that my cat is still alive.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >>thanx
                                          >>alexis
                                          >>
                                          >>mukki2@y... wrote:
                                          >>
                                          >>>I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is what
                                          >>>someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off lasix,
                                          >>>
                                          >I
                                          >
                                          >>>believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
                                          >>>however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills
                                          >>>
                                          >are
                                          >
                                          >>>also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with them.
                                          >>>
                                          >>>My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being
                                          >>>
                                          >effective
                                          >
                                          >>>at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some
                                          >>>
                                          >research
                                          >
                                          >>>on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can build
                                          >>>
                                          >up
                                          >
                                          >>>tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used. However,
                                          >>>
                                          >I
                                          >
                                          >>>have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever recommended
                                          >>>
                                          >a
                                          >
                                          >>>different diuretic.
                                          >>>
                                          >>>For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day (or
                                          >>>
                                          >5mg
                                          >
                                          >>>a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of the
                                          >>>vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it was
                                          >>>
                                          >a
                                          >
                                          >>>risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective
                                          >>>
                                          >and
                                          >
                                          >>>the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
                                          >>>(expensive and stressful for my cat).
                                          >>>
                                          >>>--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the
                                          >>>>
                                          >left
                                          >
                                          >>>and I
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched
                                          >>>>
                                          >vets
                                          >
                                          >>>and
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>have another appt today and will ask him...
                                          >>>>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>VHess2000@c... wrote:
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably
                                          >>>>>
                                          >has
                                          >
                                          >>>the worse
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is unclear,
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>why cats get
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>problem. On
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>diagnosis.
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I suspect
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>that your cat
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed to
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>most readers
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement
                                          >>>>>
                                          >only.
                                          >
                                          >>>Hearts
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>fluid. You could
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>would strongly
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which can
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>relieve
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a
                                          >>>>>
                                          >little
                                          >
                                          >>>more
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but
                                          >>>>>
                                          >saves
                                          >
                                          >>>you and the
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably
                                          >>>>>
                                          >have
                                          >
                                          >>>to give it
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>Also, are you
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>using a sodium-restricted food?
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>>Victoria
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          >>>>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                          >>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          >>>
                                          >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          >
                                          >>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • mukki2@yahoo.com
                                          His name is Smer. :) Anyways, he is now on 12.5mg 2x a day. He has mitral valve insufficieny/prolapse (very rare for a cat, apparently) so that his mitral
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Oct 2, 2001
                                            His name is Smer. :) Anyways, he is now on 12.5mg 2x a day. He has
                                            mitral valve insufficieny/prolapse (very rare for a cat, apparently)
                                            so that his mitral valve does not close all of the way. As a result,
                                            the blood backflows from his left ventricle into his left atrium.
                                            Blood pressure is elevated and the heart has to work harder to
                                            properly oxygenate the lungs. His last and only ultrasound was in
                                            Jan. 2000. When he went back into the vet in Aug. 2000, they offered
                                            another ultrasound, but said that it wasn't really necessary, unless
                                            we thought we really needed to see how far the disease had
                                            progressed. As long as we understood that Smer's days were numbered,
                                            an ultrasound, in their opinion, wouldn't help matters.

                                            All I can say is that I wouldn't give up hope until you are sure your
                                            cat's quality of life has detiorated so much that he should be
                                            euthanized. I thought for sure that Smer would have to be euthanized
                                            over a year ago. For a period in the summer of 2000, he went into
                                            serious CHF (as in he wouldn't eat, had an hard time breathing, and
                                            just sat still) a couple times within one week. I would have to pill
                                            him and, miracle or miracles, he always pulled through. After I'd
                                            pill him, I'd sit in the bedroom cyring and trying to leave him alone
                                            so he could rest, and then, a few hours later, I'd go to the kitchen
                                            and he'd come running in after me, feeling better. In August, he
                                            stopped having serious CHF episodes, but seemed to have a hard time
                                            breathing, even though he still acted normally. We took him into the
                                            vet and his lungs were 70% filled with fluid. They drained him and he
                                            came home, but still didn't look great. When we moved in December,
                                            however, he suddenly got a lot better and the fluids totally cleared
                                            from his lungs. It was amazing. I maintained him that way on 25mg 2x
                                            a day. Then, this past July, he started to feel worse again and the
                                            fluid returned. He went into serious CHF a few weeks ago again, but
                                            I gave him an extra dose of lasix. He still has some heavy breathing
                                            and I'm sure some fluid, but he eats and runs around quite a bit
                                            (although he's not the old Smer he was).

                                            My main concern is that he is not in a lot of pain. I'm sure he has
                                            discomfort, but, like I said, still eats and lies out in the sun
                                            (which isn't good for his heart, I'm sure, but he loves to so much).
                                            Every week I wonder if this is his last, but he's still going.

                                            I think he has been able to take so much medication because he's such
                                            a healthy cat other than the heart disease. He never had any problems
                                            whatsoever (despite a diet of Fancy Feast, which I'd like to get him
                                            off of). His kidneys must have been quite healthy to take so much
                                            Enacard and lasix....

                                            Good luck with your kitty. It sounds like you are experiencing a lot
                                            of the same issues and feelings I have. I was so upset in the
                                            beginning, but now I've become accustomed to his daily problems and
                                            the possibility of losing him. I really wish that when it's time for
                                            him to go, he goes peacefully in his sleep. However, I doubt this
                                            will be the case! Feel free to post/email me any questions.

                                            Hilary

                                            --- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                            > wow, I can't beleive he is doing so good either-which form of
                                            > cardiomyopathy does he have? did you say that you are back to 12.5
                                            > 3xday or still on 25mg 2xday? I totally agree w. you, as does my
                                            vet,
                                            > it is chf or kidney diease so might as well control the chf and
                                            hope it
                                            > keeps them around a little longer. how was his last ultra sound?
                                            > curious to know because fankie was only diagnosed 6 weeks ago and
                                            in
                                            > those 6 weeks his ultrasound has shown a very rapid progressive of
                                            the
                                            > diease and they are giving us a avery poor prognosis, but he sounds
                                            just
                                            > like your kitty (p.s what is his name?) so happy and a good quality
                                            of
                                            > life inbetween epsiodes that we can't seem to see how it is ok to
                                            put
                                            > him to sleep yet, yetr like you say he can't go to the hospital
                                            once a
                                            > week. I hope this new regimen of stuff and doses will keep his
                                            fluids
                                            > down and hopefully we can catch an episodes early and tret at home
                                            with
                                            > additional lasix. you kitty gives me such hope, after his results
                                            from
                                            > yesterday I was not feeling very optimistic but maybe things will
                                            be
                                            > better then expected. thank you so much for all your info! good
                                            luck to
                                            > you and your kitty, please keep me updated nad informed-as I will
                                            you
                                            > with frankie
                                            >
                                            > alexis
                                            >
                                            > mukki2@y... wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >>I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-so
                                            > >>
                                            > >far no
                                            > >
                                            > >>fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his
                                            > >>
                                            > >lasis
                                            > >
                                            > >>does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping.
                                            How
                                            > >>
                                            > >is
                                            > >
                                            > >>your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at
                                            > >>
                                            > >2.5mg and
                                            > >
                                            > >>showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him
                                            norvasc
                                            > >>instead which is suppodesly better...
                                            > >>
                                            > >
                                            > >Unfortunately, I have not had my cat's renal function checked
                                            since
                                            > >August '00. I know that sounds awful, but he goes ballistic when a
                                            > >vet tries to get blood and I am not going to put him through that
                                            > >stress (often goes into serious CHF the next day after the
                                            trauma). I
                                            > >haven't noticed any problems, but I've heard that you don't see
                                            any
                                            > >until it's too late. He was urinating more often (small puddles)
                                            the
                                            > >other week, but has normalized.
                                            > >
                                            > >>how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is the
                                            > >>
                                            > >lowest
                                            > >
                                            > >>lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday?
                                            how
                                            > >>
                                            > >long
                                            > >
                                            > >>would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you been
                                            > >>
                                            > >able to
                                            > >
                                            > >>control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope
                                            > >>
                                            > >so....
                                            > >
                                            > >He was diagnosed in Jan. '00 (went into CHF after having a dental
                                            > >cleaning -- obviously, a huge mistake since his teeth weren't even
                                            > >that bad). He started out on 12.5mg/1 pill of lasix per day,
                                            which
                                            > >controlled the fluids just fine. Then in the summer of 2000 things
                                            > >got worse and he had to be drained. After that, he was on 37.5mg/3
                                            > >pills a day, but had his ups and downs. Eventually, I was able to
                                            > >control the fluids for 6 months at the beginning of this year on
                                            25mg
                                            > >2x a day/ 4 pills total (he only stabilized after we moved to a
                                            new
                                            > >house where he got more exercise -- I swear that helped him even
                                            > >though it's is supposed to tax the heart). Anyway, he is now back
                                            on
                                            > >that amount after I noticed the change in urination. Giving him
                                            more
                                            > >doesn't seem to help much. I know he has some fluid buildup, but
                                            > >seems stable.
                                            > >
                                            > >>sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so
                                            > >>
                                            > >diffacult.
                                            > >
                                            > >> to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and
                                            > >>
                                            > >things
                                            > >
                                            > >>have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in
                                            on
                                            > >>
                                            > >the
                                            > >
                                            > >>rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better manage
                                            > >>frankie too
                                            > >>
                                            > >I am probably not a good example since I do exactly what the
                                            doctors
                                            > >tell me NOT to do. I change his medication according to how he
                                            seems
                                            > >to be doing. I've given him more than the recommended dose
                                            because,
                                            > >quite frankly, I figure he is either going to die from heart
                                            failure
                                            > >or kidney damage. I decided that I didn't want him to constantly
                                            be
                                            > >stressed out by vet visits (and I'm telling you THIS cat hates the
                                            > >vet; he's as gentle as can be normally, but when the vet lays a
                                            hand
                                            > >on him... watch out). Plus, it cost at least $600 every time he
                                            had
                                            > >to go in and stay the night. The only other alternative to me
                                            would
                                            > >be to euthanize him now, which I don't think is appropriate,
                                            > >particularly when I still see him rolling in the sunshine in the
                                            > >backyard and looking thoroughly content. When he stops eating and
                                            > >enjoying life, then the vet who makes home visits will euthanize
                                            him
                                            > >in the comfort of our own home. To me, the quality of his life is
                                            > >much more important than quantity. That vet is actually extremely
                                            > >surprised that my cat is still alive.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >>thanx
                                            > >>alexis
                                            > >>
                                            > >>mukki2@y... wrote:
                                            > >>
                                            > >>>I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is
                                            what
                                            > >>>someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off
                                            lasix,
                                            > >>>
                                            > >I
                                            > >
                                            > >>>believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
                                            > >>>however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The pills
                                            > >>>
                                            > >are
                                            > >
                                            > >>>also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with
                                            them.
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being
                                            > >>>
                                            > >effective
                                            > >
                                            > >>>at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some
                                            > >>>
                                            > >research
                                            > >
                                            > >>>on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can
                                            build
                                            > >>>
                                            > >up
                                            > >
                                            > >>>tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used.
                                            However,
                                            > >>>
                                            > >I
                                            > >
                                            > >>>have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever
                                            recommended
                                            > >>>
                                            > >a
                                            > >
                                            > >>>different diuretic.
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day
                                            (or
                                            > >>>
                                            > >5mg
                                            > >
                                            > >>>a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of
                                            the
                                            > >>>vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it
                                            was
                                            > >>>
                                            > >a
                                            > >
                                            > >>>risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not effective
                                            > >>>
                                            > >and
                                            > >
                                            > >>>the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
                                            > >>>(expensive and stressful for my cat).
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >left
                                            > >
                                            > >>>and I
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have switched
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >vets
                                            > >
                                            > >>>and
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>have another appt today and will ask him...
                                            > >>>>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>>VHess2000@c... wrote:
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which probably
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >has
                                            > >
                                            > >>>the worse
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is
                                            unclear,
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>why cats get
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an autoimmune
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>problem. On
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months after
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>diagnosis.
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I
                                            suspect
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>that your cat
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as opposed
                                            to
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>most readers
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >only.
                                            > >
                                            > >>>Hearts
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>fluid. You could
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but I
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>would strongly
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which
                                            can
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>relieve
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >little
                                            > >
                                            > >>>more
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >saves
                                            > >
                                            > >>>you and the
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd probably
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >have
                                            > >
                                            > >>>to give it
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral lasix.
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>Also, are you
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>using a sodium-restricted food?
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>>Victoria
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > >>>>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            > >>>
                                            > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            > >
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >>
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • flyerfan@blazenet.net
                                            I have been reading your posts and while Dom does not get any of the drugs etc. that your cats are taking, I just wanted to add that when it comes to the
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Oct 2, 2001
                                              I have been reading your posts and while Dom does not get any of the
                                              drugs etc. that your cats are taking, I just wanted to add that when
                                              it comes to the heart--you just can't predict what is ever going to
                                              happen! Most on this board rememeber my problems with Dom and that I
                                              totally stopped all heart meds, cardiologist visits, blood draws,
                                              ultrasounds etc. last March. Dom does have HCM and had 4 or 5
                                              ultrasounds before March. He was diagnosed December 1999. I was told
                                              that remeoving him from the drugs etc. would probably shorten his
                                              life but we decided to go with a shorter quality of life for him
                                              rather than quantity. We do still see the regular vet frequently as
                                              Dom has allergies and also asthma. We are in the midst of another hot
                                              spot break out and are trying to deal with it without the steroids as
                                              they cause him to have labored breathing now. We aren't sure if it is
                                              a reaction to the steroid or an asthma attack but we are trying to
                                              avoid it if possible. I am using a topical and the jury is still out
                                              on whether it will work or if we will end up with the Depo injection.

                                              My whole point in this is to say that these guys can be amazing! Dom
                                              is still doing quite well considering his prognosis almost 2 years
                                              ago. He still runs around the house, loves to eat and is our baby! He
                                              shows no signs of having a cardiac problem and our vet is amazed
                                              because of his having asthma also. He says Dom is on his second nine
                                              lives and we will continue to enjoy our time with him until he shows
                                              signs of being in some kind of distress. He too hates vets and blood
                                              draws are an impossibility as they have learned. It seems that he is
                                              having less problems since we have stopped stressing him. We are very
                                              lucky to have a vet who understands where we are coming from and he
                                              agrees that this is certainly the best for Dom. He does make house
                                              calls for Dom if I need him. And he is always willing to talk on the
                                              phone as he lets me call the shots on what we want to do. He gives me
                                              the options and I make my choice and of course, I always ask his
                                              opinion too. This all makes it alot easier for Dom and me. I know we
                                              are living on so called borrowed time but Dom has had a great 7
                                              months so I will never complain. When we were forcing the drugs, vet
                                              trips, blood draws etc. on him it just wasn't working. We almost lost
                                              him twice from drug toxicities etc. before we called it off. I am not
                                              suggesting that any of you stop meds as each cat is different and
                                              your cat may NEED the meds to live. We have found that Dom just
                                              wasn't 1 of them. Dom still has never built up fluid that I am aware
                                              of. He was a 3 when diagnosed and had left side wall thickening,
                                              enlargement of the heart and an aortic valve leak. He is 7 years old
                                              and weighs 16 pounds. He hasn't had an ultrasound for 7 months and
                                              won't be having any in the future. As long as he has a quality of
                                              life we will keep him with us but we also will PTS when his condition
                                              deteriorates to the point where he is in pain or struggling with
                                              life. It will be my last gift to him and like you said, we all hope
                                              that we just find them 1 day but I am not expecting it to go that
                                              smoothly! LOL Dom just doesn't do anything easy!!

                                              Good luck to you and your cats!
                                              Jeanne, Dom, Bono & Louie



                                              --- In feline-heart@y..., mukki2@y... wrote:
                                              > His name is Smer. :) Anyways, he is now on 12.5mg 2x a day. He has
                                              > mitral valve insufficieny/prolapse (very rare for a cat,
                                              apparently)
                                              > so that his mitral valve does not close all of the way. As a
                                              result,
                                              > the blood backflows from his left ventricle into his left atrium.
                                              > Blood pressure is elevated and the heart has to work harder to
                                              > properly oxygenate the lungs. His last and only ultrasound was in
                                              > Jan. 2000. When he went back into the vet in Aug. 2000, they
                                              offered
                                              > another ultrasound, but said that it wasn't really necessary,
                                              unless
                                              > we thought we really needed to see how far the disease had
                                              > progressed. As long as we understood that Smer's days were
                                              numbered,
                                              > an ultrasound, in their opinion, wouldn't help matters.
                                              >
                                              > All I can say is that I wouldn't give up hope until you are sure
                                              your
                                              > cat's quality of life has detiorated so much that he should be
                                              > euthanized. I thought for sure that Smer would have to be
                                              euthanized
                                              > over a year ago. For a period in the summer of 2000, he went into
                                              > serious CHF (as in he wouldn't eat, had an hard time breathing, and
                                              > just sat still) a couple times within one week. I would have to
                                              pill
                                              > him and, miracle or miracles, he always pulled through. After I'd
                                              > pill him, I'd sit in the bedroom cyring and trying to leave him
                                              alone
                                              > so he could rest, and then, a few hours later, I'd go to the
                                              kitchen
                                              > and he'd come running in after me, feeling better. In August, he
                                              > stopped having serious CHF episodes, but seemed to have a hard time
                                              > breathing, even though he still acted normally. We took him into
                                              the
                                              > vet and his lungs were 70% filled with fluid. They drained him and
                                              he
                                              > came home, but still didn't look great. When we moved in December,
                                              > however, he suddenly got a lot better and the fluids totally
                                              cleared
                                              > from his lungs. It was amazing. I maintained him that way on 25mg
                                              2x
                                              > a day. Then, this past July, he started to feel worse again and the
                                              > fluid returned. He went into serious CHF a few weeks ago again,
                                              but
                                              > I gave him an extra dose of lasix. He still has some heavy
                                              breathing
                                              > and I'm sure some fluid, but he eats and runs around quite a bit
                                              > (although he's not the old Smer he was).
                                              >
                                              > My main concern is that he is not in a lot of pain. I'm sure he has
                                              > discomfort, but, like I said, still eats and lies out in the sun
                                              > (which isn't good for his heart, I'm sure, but he loves to so
                                              much).
                                              > Every week I wonder if this is his last, but he's still going.
                                              >
                                              > I think he has been able to take so much medication because he's
                                              such
                                              > a healthy cat other than the heart disease. He never had any
                                              problems
                                              > whatsoever (despite a diet of Fancy Feast, which I'd like to get
                                              him
                                              > off of). His kidneys must have been quite healthy to take so much
                                              > Enacard and lasix....
                                              >
                                              > Good luck with your kitty. It sounds like you are experiencing a
                                              lot
                                              > of the same issues and feelings I have. I was so upset in the
                                              > beginning, but now I've become accustomed to his daily problems and
                                              > the possibility of losing him. I really wish that when it's time
                                              for
                                              > him to go, he goes peacefully in his sleep. However, I doubt this
                                              > will be the case! Feel free to post/email me any questions.
                                              >
                                              > Hilary
                                              >
                                              > --- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                              > > wow, I can't beleive he is doing so good either-which form of
                                              > > cardiomyopathy does he have? did you say that you are back to
                                              12.5
                                              > > 3xday or still on 25mg 2xday? I totally agree w. you, as does my
                                              > vet,
                                              > > it is chf or kidney diease so might as well control the chf and
                                              > hope it
                                              > > keeps them around a little longer. how was his last ultra sound?
                                              > > curious to know because fankie was only diagnosed 6 weeks ago and
                                              > in
                                              > > those 6 weeks his ultrasound has shown a very rapid progressive
                                              of
                                              > the
                                              > > diease and they are giving us a avery poor prognosis, but he
                                              sounds
                                              > just
                                              > > like your kitty (p.s what is his name?) so happy and a good
                                              quality
                                              > of
                                              > > life inbetween epsiodes that we can't seem to see how it is ok to
                                              > put
                                              > > him to sleep yet, yetr like you say he can't go to the hospital
                                              > once a
                                              > > week. I hope this new regimen of stuff and doses will keep his
                                              > fluids
                                              > > down and hopefully we can catch an episodes early and tret at
                                              home
                                              > with
                                              > > additional lasix. you kitty gives me such hope, after his
                                              results
                                              > from
                                              > > yesterday I was not feeling very optimistic but maybe things will
                                              > be
                                              > > better then expected. thank you so much for all your info! good
                                              > luck to
                                              > > you and your kitty, please keep me updated nad informed-as I will
                                              > you
                                              > > with frankie
                                              > >
                                              > > alexis
                                              > >
                                              > > mukki2@y... wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > >--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>I actually just put frankie on rutin-he is getting 250mg 3xday-
                                              so
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >far no
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>fuild build up again, but it has only been a week-increased his
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >lasis
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>does to 12.5 3xday as well so hopefully this combo is helping.
                                              > How
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >is
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>your kitty's renal function on 5mg of enacard a day? we are at
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >2.5mg and
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>showed some inc creatin levels-possibly goingto switch him
                                              > norvasc
                                              > > >>instead which is suppodesly better...
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >
                                              > > >Unfortunately, I have not had my cat's renal function checked
                                              > since
                                              > > >August '00. I know that sounds awful, but he goes ballistic when
                                              a
                                              > > >vet tries to get blood and I am not going to put him through
                                              that
                                              > > >stress (often goes into serious CHF the next day after the
                                              > trauma). I
                                              > > >haven't noticed any problems, but I've heard that you don't see
                                              > any
                                              > > >until it's too late. He was urinating more often (small puddles)
                                              > the
                                              > > >other week, but has normalized.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>how long has it been since your kitty was diagnosed? what is
                                              the
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >lowest
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>lasix dose you are able to contriol fuild with-the 25mg 2xday?
                                              > how
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >long
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>would he/she go between crisis on lowere doses and have you
                                              been
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >able to
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>control for a good period of time now? for both of you I hope
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >so....
                                              > > >
                                              > > >He was diagnosed in Jan. '00 (went into CHF after having a
                                              dental
                                              > > >cleaning -- obviously, a huge mistake since his teeth weren't
                                              even
                                              > > >that bad). He started out on 12.5mg/1 pill of lasix per day,
                                              > which
                                              > > >controlled the fluids just fine. Then in the summer of 2000
                                              things
                                              > > >got worse and he had to be drained. After that, he was on
                                              37.5mg/3
                                              > > >pills a day, but had his ups and downs. Eventually, I was able
                                              to
                                              > > >control the fluids for 6 months at the beginning of this year on
                                              > 25mg
                                              > > >2x a day/ 4 pills total (he only stabilized after we moved to a
                                              > new
                                              > > >house where he got more exercise -- I swear that helped him even
                                              > > >though it's is supposed to tax the heart). Anyway, he is now
                                              back
                                              > on
                                              > > >that amount after I noticed the change in urination. Giving him
                                              > more
                                              > > >doesn't seem to help much. I know he has some fluid buildup, but
                                              > > >seems stable.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>sounds like you have been going threw the same thing as us-so
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >diffacult.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >> to top things off frankie had a repeat ulthrasound today and
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >things
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>have goten a lote worse...life is so unfair! please fill me in
                                              > on
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >the
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>rest of your details as I would love to be able tpo better
                                              manage
                                              > > >>frankie too
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >I am probably not a good example since I do exactly what the
                                              > doctors
                                              > > >tell me NOT to do. I change his medication according to how he
                                              > seems
                                              > > >to be doing. I've given him more than the recommended dose
                                              > because,
                                              > > >quite frankly, I figure he is either going to die from heart
                                              > failure
                                              > > >or kidney damage. I decided that I didn't want him to constantly
                                              > be
                                              > > >stressed out by vet visits (and I'm telling you THIS cat hates
                                              the
                                              > > >vet; he's as gentle as can be normally, but when the vet lays a
                                              > hand
                                              > > >on him... watch out). Plus, it cost at least $600 every time he
                                              > had
                                              > > >to go in and stay the night. The only other alternative to me
                                              > would
                                              > > >be to euthanize him now, which I don't think is appropriate,
                                              > > >particularly when I still see him rolling in the sunshine in the
                                              > > >backyard and looking thoroughly content. When he stops eating
                                              and
                                              > > >enjoying life, then the vet who makes home visits will euthanize
                                              > him
                                              > > >in the comfort of our own home. To me, the quality of his life
                                              is
                                              > > >much more important than quantity. That vet is actually
                                              extremely
                                              > > >surprised that my cat is still alive.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>thanx
                                              > > >>alexis
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >>mukki2@y... wrote:
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >>>I don't know if anyone has recommended rutin yet, but that is
                                              > what
                                              > > >>>someone told me to use. That person switched their cat off
                                              > lasix,
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >I
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>believe, and rutin controlled the fluid build-up. I tried it,
                                              > > >>>however, and my cat would not eat it in his wet food. The
                                              pills
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >are
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>also very large so it would be impossible to pill my cat with
                                              > them.
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>My vets have told me that eventually the lasix stops being
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >effective
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>at controlling the fluid build-up. However, I have done some
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >research
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>on the web and some info seemed to indicate that people can
                                              > build
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >up
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>tolerance to one diuretic. Oftentimes, several are used.
                                              > However,
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >I
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>have never discussed this with my vet nor has one ever
                                              > recommended
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >a
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>different diuretic.
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>For the record, my cat is currently on 2.5mg Enacard 2x a day
                                              > (or
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >5mg
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>a day) and 25mg lasix 2x a day (or 50mg a day). Again, none of
                                              > the
                                              > > >>>vets I talked to recommended I increase it to that level -- it
                                              > was
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >a
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>risk I took on my own because the lower dosage was not
                                              effective
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >and
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>the only other choice was another trip to the emergency vets
                                              > > >>>(expensive and stressful for my cat).
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>--- In feline-heart@y..., Alexis Snyder <cozycat@r...> wrote:
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>thanx for responding so fast....no he only has damage on the
                                              > > >>>>
                                              > > >left
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>and I
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>did ask about injectgable and she said no but we have
                                              switched
                                              > > >>>>
                                              > > >vets
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>and
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>have another appt today and will ask him...
                                              > > >>>>how much dandelion did you give on top of lasix?
                                              > > >>>>
                                              > > >>>>VHess2000@c... wrote:
                                              > > >>>>
                                              > > >>>>>My cat had restrictive cardiomyopathy as well, which
                                              probably
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >has
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>the worse
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>prospects of any of the feline heart problems. It is
                                              > unclear,
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>why cats get
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>it -- some may have had a virus, or it might be an
                                              autoimmune
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>problem. On
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>average, cats diagnosed with RCM only live 3 - 9 months
                                              after
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>diagnosis.
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>Kira only lived 6 months, and suffered 2 blood clots. I
                                              > suspect
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>that your cat
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>might have damage to both ventricles of the heart, as
                                              opposed
                                              > to
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>most readers
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>on the list, whose HCM cats have left ventricle involvement
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >only.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>Hearts
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>with damage to both ventricles have twice the problem with
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>fluid. You could
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>try giving the cat, dandelion in addition to oral lasix, but
                                              I
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>would strongly
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>suggest getting your vet to give you injectable lasix, which
                                              > can
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>relieve
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>fluid-build up in a matter of hours. The injections are a
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >little
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>more
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>difficult to give, (given at the base of the rib cage), but
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >saves
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>you and the
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>cat stressful and expensive trips to the vet. You'd
                                              probably
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >have
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>to give it
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>1x or 2x a week, in addition to the dandelion and oral
                                              lasix.
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>Also, are you
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>using a sodium-restricted food?
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>>>Victoria
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > >>>>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>>>
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > >>>feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>>
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.