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Fw: [vettalk] Re: cat was diagnosed with saddleblock yesterday - i need advice - Plavix

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  • Westgold
    more info from the vettalk list -- ... From: Mother Stephania To: vettalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [vettalk] Re: cat
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 30, 2009
      more info from the vettalk list --
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Mother Stephania
      To: vettalk@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [vettalk] Re: cat was diagnosed with saddleblock yesterday - i need advice - Plavix





      Hi Janet,

      Thanks. If my slow mind is following this ... I think we are talking about two different things.

      From what I can understand at the Plavix website, it is warnings that Plavix causes "prolonged" bleeding ... which is what one would expect of a medication that is intended to prevent or slow blood clotting (the reason that it is given to cats with heart disease). They seem to be warning that if there is anything that can cause bleeding (e.g. trauma, surgery, GI like stomach ulcers, etc) then Plavix will prolong the bleeding time.

      I think that is what Dr Green was saying when he wrote that Plavix: "effectively inhibited platelet aggregation".

      What I may have misunderstood in your initial reply was when you wrote about Plavix that, "like aspirin, it can cause GI bleeding". I was seeing a difference between prolonging bleeding of an existing condition, versus being the "cause" of bleeding. As far as I can understand from the Plavix website, they don't seem to say that Plavix "causes" GI bleeding, but will prolong any that exists ... and if aspirin is also given, the bleeding time will be longer still.

      My interpretation (which may be incorrect) of Dr Green's statement that Plavix prevents clotting "with no apparent gastrointestinal side effects" ... was that Plavix is not the "cause" of GI bleeding, but would only prolong existing bleeding (wherever it occurs in the body).

      I took that to be in contrast to aspirin which, in its inhibition of COX-1, can be a "cause" of stomach/gastric ulceration. My very limited understanding is that COX-1 is needed for the mucosal cells of the GI tract ... i.e. the mucus lining that helps protect the stomach from the strong stomach acids. Aspirin inhibits COX-1 which, I think, results in damage to the protective mucosal barrier in the stomach ... which "causes" the ulceration that leads to bleeding.

      When Dr Green commented that Plavix doesn't have apparent GI side effects, I was assuming he meant that Plavix doesn't hurt the protective mucosal barrier in the stomach (as aspirin does), so it is not the cause of GI problems. But, as an anti-coagulant, one would assume that if there is an existing stomach problem that causes bleeding, then Plavix would make the bleeding worse since it inhibits clotting.

      Does that make sense? Am I confusing something? Perhaps it is just that I misinterpreted your comment that Plavix "can cause GI bleeding" and what you meant was that it can "prolong" GI bleeding ... which is certainly correct as far as I understand.

      Hope that clarifies my comment and clears up any misunderstanding.

      Stephanie, obviously NAV





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      Janet Somers wrote:
      Stephanie,

      This is from the Plavix website.

      PRECAUTIONS

      General: PLAVIX prolongs the bleeding time and therefore should be used with caution in patients who may be at risk of increased bleeding from trauma, surgery, or other pathological conditions (particularly gastrointestinal and intraocular).

      http://products.sanofi-aventis.us/plavix/plavix.html

      About 7 pills for Freddie cost $30. I guess "expensive" is a relative term. I don't know anything about heparin.

      Janet + Charlie, Lilly, Callie, and Murray



      Hi Janet,

      That is interesting that you say Plavix can cause GI bleeding. In the Proceedings for Dr Green's talk last year, he seems to say the opposite (Clopidogrel = Plavix) ... I removed the dosage amounts since that is against list policy:
      Clopidogrel, however, effectively inhibited
      platelet aggregation with no apparent gastrointestinal
      side effects when dosed at .... to .... mg/cat/day PO.
      Current trials with clopidogrel are ongoing at Purdue
      University to assess drug efficacy versus aspirin in the
      FATCAT study.
      I also was pretty sure he said that Plavix was less expensive than the Low Molecular Weight Heparin ... but, I suppose, if you are comparing it to the cost of aspirin, it is probably expensive (I really don't have any idea how much either LMWH or Plavix is). Like most things, there is a variety of opinions even among the specialists.

      Stephanie in Montreal ... very NAV






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    • Pat
      Hi All; ... From: Westgold ... The operative word here is can , however again, this is in relation to how aspirin affects humans.
      Message 2 of 2 , Jun 30, 2009
        Hi All;

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Westgold" <westgold@...>
        > I took that to be in contrast to aspirin which, in its inhibition of
        > COX-1, can be a "cause" of stomach/gastric ulceration.

        The operative word here is "can", however again, this is in relation to how
        aspirin affects humans. Pepper was one cat who couldn't handle aspirin at
        all, right from the start, which means that ulceration hadn't developed when
        he started throwing up his food and lost appetite. It was a scary
        experience for us.

        Pat and all the boys
        http://felinenutritionalnotes.blogspot.com/
        http://petfoodpitfalls.blogspot.com/
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