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Re: Re: [FH] What to watch out for

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  • joepqwn@gmail.com
    I agree this is valuable and the more info we have the better. I appreciate all who are sharing. One more thing I wanted to add is that after April had her
    Message 1 of 8 , May 1, 2009
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      I agree this is valuable and the more info we have the better. I appreciate
      all who are sharing.

      One more thing I wanted to add is that after April had her oviohysterectomy
      when she was about a year old, she rapidly gained weight. I estimate that
      she went from 10 pounds to 12 pounds in the span of less than 6 months. She
      ate a normal amount of food but seemed to be malnourished in the shelter.
      So we gave her a normal serving and she gained weight. The vet at the time
      didnt seem to be concerned. But I wonder now if that disposition to gain
      weight somehow was a sign even in her early states? There still is much to
      be learned about this disease.





      > This is an excellent idea for discussion. I hope
      > everybody who can participate will. It's sad to talk about these things,
      > but it will help all of us. Lots of heart kitties die alone in the middle
      > of the night, and people find them dead on the kitchen floor the next
      > morning. But many of us have been witness -- please share if you
      > can!



      > I had one kitty die in my arms from HCM back in
      > 1995. She was a folded Scottish Fold I bred myself, and she was about
      > 18 months old. We did not know she was sick. I didn't know anything
      > about HCM at that time, and she did not have a murmur. If she'd had a
      > murmur, I would have had her checked out, but she seemed perfectly
      > healthy. She developed mammary hyperplasia, swollen mammary glands, so we
      > were taking her to the vet every couple days to keep an eye on that. But
      > her heart sounded fine, and they just said to breed her on her next heat,
      > and it would resolve itself. Her lumps got really huge, the size of small
      > plums. She pretty much stopped eating a couple days before she died.
      > We were able to entice her to eat a little people tuna. We assumed she was
      > just feeling lousy because of the mammary hyperplasia, she was very
      > uncomfortable. That Sunday night we decided we'd take her to a different
      > vet the next morning for another opinion. Shortly before I went to
      > bed she started breathing heavier -- not really serious mouth breathing,
      > but
      > just a little heavier. She was also sitting on a hard place, the marble
      > slab in the window. Maybe because it was cooler there? It was about
      > 2 AM, so we planned to take her to the other vet first thing in the
      > morning. I went to bed, and my boyfriend went home. About an hour
      > later, I was woken up by her screaming. I ran to the living room and found
      > her sitting in the sphynx position and there was a big pool of fluid
      > around her front end. She screamed again, and I picked her up., She
      > went limp, and I tried swinging her the way we swing little kittens, to
      > drain
      > any fluid in the lungs. Nothing really came out. I also tried CPR, but
      > she was so limp and there was no response. We ran her up to the
      > emergency clinic, but she was already dead before we even left. But they
      > looked her over and said it looked like HCM -- something I was totally
      > unfamiliar with at that time. We were stunned. We drove her body
      > straight up to the University of Guelph Vet School, about an hour and a
      > half. They did the necropsy, and sent us a long report. It was
      > definitely HCM, and they said at that time that it was considered a fluke
      > when
      > it happened in Scottish Folds. (Now Folds are in the top 10 for
      > HCM.) They said that it was the extra weight of the swollen glands
      > that caused her heart to fail at that time. And that if we'd gone on
      > and bred her, she would have died during the pregnancy or labor. LATER we
      > developed the roll of film that had the last photos of her. We could see
      > in those photos how sick she looked. Because we saw her everyday, we
      > didn't notice. But she was very puffy in those photos, her cheeks were
      > huge and she looked sad. There are obviously early signs that we miss
      > because we see them everyday. That's why this discussion will be so
      > valuable. PLEASE send in your stories if you lost a dear kitty from
      > heart problems -- please let us know what you saw at the time or in
      > hindsight.



      > thank you, Michelle & Tigger Too in
      > Toronto











      >

















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Westgold
      When there is a weight gain, could it be fluid build-up? That is what I believed happened to my former HCM kitty who died in 1995. The photos showed her all
      Message 2 of 8 , May 1, 2009
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        When there is a weight gain, could it be fluid build-up? That is what I believed happened to my former HCM kitty who died in 1995. The photos showed her all puffed up, like she was really bloated. And I found her in a big pool of fluid right before she died. Is it possible that they can bloat up ALL OVER, and not just have fluid in the heart and/or lungs -- but all over the body?

        take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: joepqwn@...
        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:23 PM
        Subject: Re: Re: [FH] What to watch out for





        I agree this is valuable and the more info we have the better. I appreciate
        all who are sharing.

        One more thing I wanted to add is that after April had her oviohysterectomy
        when she was about a year old, she rapidly gained weight. I estimate that
        she went from 10 pounds to 12 pounds in the span of less than 6 months. She
        ate a normal amount of food but seemed to be malnourished in the shelter.
        So we gave her a normal serving and she gained weight. The vet at the time
        didnt seem to be concerned. But I wonder now if that disposition to gain
        weight somehow was a sign even in her early states? There still is much to
        be learned about this disease.

        > This is an excellent idea for discussion. I hope
        > everybody who can participate will. It's sad to talk about these things,
        > but it will help all of us. Lots of heart kitties die alone in the middle
        > of the night, and people find them dead on the kitchen floor the next
        > morning. But many of us have been witness -- please share if you
        > can!

        > I had one kitty die in my arms from HCM back in
        > 1995. She was a folded Scottish Fold I bred myself, and she was about
        > 18 months old. We did not know she was sick. I didn't know anything
        > about HCM at that time, and she did not have a murmur. If she'd had a
        > murmur, I would have had her checked out, but she seemed perfectly
        > healthy. She developed mammary hyperplasia, swollen mammary glands, so we
        > were taking her to the vet every couple days to keep an eye on that. But
        > her heart sounded fine, and they just said to breed her on her next heat,
        > and it would resolve itself. Her lumps got really huge, the size of small
        > plums. She pretty much stopped eating a couple days before she died.
        > We were able to entice her to eat a little people tuna. We assumed she was
        > just feeling lousy because of the mammary hyperplasia, she was very
        > uncomfortable. That Sunday night we decided we'd take her to a different
        > vet the next morning for another opinion. Shortly before I went to
        > bed she started breathing heavier -- not really serious mouth breathing,
        > but
        > just a little heavier. She was also sitting on a hard place, the marble
        > slab in the window. Maybe because it was cooler there? It was about
        > 2 AM, so we planned to take her to the other vet first thing in the
        > morning. I went to bed, and my boyfriend went home. About an hour
        > later, I was woken up by her screaming. I ran to the living room and found
        > her sitting in the sphynx position and there was a big pool of fluid
        > around her front end. She screamed again, and I picked her up., She
        > went limp, and I tried swinging her the way we swing little kittens, to
        > drain
        > any fluid in the lungs. Nothing really came out. I also tried CPR, but
        > she was so limp and there was no response. We ran her up to the
        > emergency clinic, but she was already dead before we even left. But they
        > looked her over and said it looked like HCM -- something I was totally
        > unfamiliar with at that time. We were stunned. We drove her body
        > straight up to the University of Guelph Vet School, about an hour and a
        > half. They did the necropsy, and sent us a long report. It was
        > definitely HCM, and they said at that time that it was considered a fluke
        > when
        > it happened in Scottish Folds. (Now Folds are in the top 10 for
        > HCM.) They said that it was the extra weight of the swollen glands
        > that caused her heart to fail at that time. And that if we'd gone on
        > and bred her, she would have died during the pregnancy or labor. LATER we
        > developed the roll of film that had the last photos of her. We could see
        > in those photos how sick she looked. Because we saw her everyday, we
        > didn't notice. But she was very puffy in those photos, her cheeks were
        > huge and she looked sad. There are obviously early signs that we miss
        > because we see them everyday. That's why this discussion will be so
        > valuable. PLEASE send in your stories if you lost a dear kitty from
        > heart problems -- please let us know what you saw at the time or in
        > hindsight.

        > thank you, Michelle & Tigger Too in
        > Toronto

        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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      • m3cflvi
        I think in the later stages when she got older. But she gained this weight around 1 year old and got HCM at 6 1/2.
        Message 3 of 8 , May 1, 2009
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          I think in the later stages when she got older. But she gained this weight around 1 year old and got HCM at 6 1/2.



          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, joepqwn@... wrote:
          >
          > I agree this is valuable and the more info we have the better. I appreciate
          > all who are sharing.
          >
          > One more thing I wanted to add is that after April had her oviohysterectomy
          > when she was about a year old, she rapidly gained weight. I estimate that
          > she went from 10 pounds to 12 pounds in the span of less than 6 months. She
          > ate a normal amount of food but seemed to be malnourished in the shelter.
          > So we gave her a normal serving and she gained weight. The vet at the time
          > didnt seem to be concerned. But I wonder now if that disposition to gain
          > weight somehow was a sign even in her early states? There still is much to
          > be learned about this disease.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > This is an excellent idea for discussion. I hope
          > > everybody who can participate will. It's sad to talk about these things,
          > > but it will help all of us. Lots of heart kitties die alone in the middle
          > > of the night, and people find them dead on the kitchen floor the next
          > > morning. But many of us have been witness -- please share if you
          > > can!
          >
          >
          >
          > > I had one kitty die in my arms from HCM back in
          > > 1995. She was a folded Scottish Fold I bred myself, and she was about
          > > 18 months old. We did not know she was sick. I didn't know anything
          > > about HCM at that time, and she did not have a murmur. If she'd had a
          > > murmur, I would have had her checked out, but she seemed perfectly
          > > healthy. She developed mammary hyperplasia, swollen mammary glands, so we
          > > were taking her to the vet every couple days to keep an eye on that. But
          > > her heart sounded fine, and they just said to breed her on her next heat,
          > > and it would resolve itself. Her lumps got really huge, the size of small
          > > plums. She pretty much stopped eating a couple days before she died.
          > > We were able to entice her to eat a little people tuna. We assumed she was
          > > just feeling lousy because of the mammary hyperplasia, she was very
          > > uncomfortable. That Sunday night we decided we'd take her to a different
          > > vet the next morning for another opinion. Shortly before I went to
          > > bed she started breathing heavier -- not really serious mouth breathing,
          > > but
          > > just a little heavier. She was also sitting on a hard place, the marble
          > > slab in the window. Maybe because it was cooler there? It was about
          > > 2 AM, so we planned to take her to the other vet first thing in the
          > > morning. I went to bed, and my boyfriend went home. About an hour
          > > later, I was woken up by her screaming. I ran to the living room and found
          > > her sitting in the sphynx position and there was a big pool of fluid
          > > around her front end. She screamed again, and I picked her up., She
          > > went limp, and I tried swinging her the way we swing little kittens, to
          > > drain
          > > any fluid in the lungs. Nothing really came out. I also tried CPR, but
          > > she was so limp and there was no response. We ran her up to the
          > > emergency clinic, but she was already dead before we even left. But they
          > > looked her over and said it looked like HCM -- something I was totally
          > > unfamiliar with at that time. We were stunned. We drove her body
          > > straight up to the University of Guelph Vet School, about an hour and a
          > > half. They did the necropsy, and sent us a long report. It was
          > > definitely HCM, and they said at that time that it was considered a fluke
          > > when
          > > it happened in Scottish Folds. (Now Folds are in the top 10 for
          > > HCM.) They said that it was the extra weight of the swollen glands
          > > that caused her heart to fail at that time. And that if we'd gone on
          > > and bred her, she would have died during the pregnancy or labor. LATER we
          > > developed the roll of film that had the last photos of her. We could see
          > > in those photos how sick she looked. Because we saw her everyday, we
          > > didn't notice. But she was very puffy in those photos, her cheeks were
          > > huge and she looked sad. There are obviously early signs that we miss
          > > because we see them everyday. That's why this discussion will be so
          > > valuable. PLEASE send in your stories if you lost a dear kitty from
          > > heart problems -- please let us know what you saw at the time or in
          > > hindsight.
          >
          >
          >
          > > thank you, Michelle & Tigger Too in
          > > Toronto
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Pat
          Hi joepqwn; This is what Deb Zoran was trying to teach veterinarians about at the end of July in Vancouver. She points out that when gonadectomies, etc., are
          Message 4 of 8 , May 1, 2009
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            Hi joepqwn;

            This is what Deb Zoran was trying to teach veterinarians about at the end of
            July in Vancouver. She points out that when gonadectomies, etc., are done
            on domestic cats, it is the same as plunging a human into menopause.
            Hormones go haywire so it is natural that leptin, for instance, go

            Here is what the FDA has to say about menopause and hormones:
            http://www.fda.gov/WOMENS/menopause/mht-FS.html

            In fact, there is a ton of study information about this online, some of
            which relates to cats in specific. The following just relates to leptin,
            which is one of many hormonal changes that happen which stop our cats from
            being equivalent to wild felines:
            http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/6/1730S
            http://tinyurl.com/csxxt7
            http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/145/5/2221
            http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12472&d=1238306523
            http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119025498/abstract
            http://tinyurl.com/co95c9

            Of course, as it is turning out that our cats handle fat in the diet the
            same way humans do, it will also follow that heart disease will also be more
            prominent. While I agree that cats should be altered if not being used as
            breeders, we all need to pay attention to the results that are unfolding in
            this past decade after the big push to have cats 'fixed'. It seems our
            veterinarians are not willing to follow up as they should do, so we don't
            have a choice. I do sometime wonder what we have been paying them for, as
            they don't complete their job by providing followup care to prevent these
            health issues from developing......perhaps they are having too good a time
            reaping the benefits of not doing so.

            Pat and all the boys
            http://felinenutritionalnotes.blogspot.com/
            http://petfoodpitfalls.blogspot.com/

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <joepqwn@...>
            >But I wonder now if that disposition to gain
            > weight somehow was a sign even in her early states? There still is much to
            > be learned about this disease.
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