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FortiFlora question

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  • Mmayer11
    Can any member on the List tell me about FortiFlora? Marianna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 5, 2009
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      Can any member on the List tell me about FortiFlora?





      Marianna


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Pat
      Hi Marianna; ... From: Mmayer11 ... Pepper had chronic diarrhea because fluids were spilling into the GI tract somehow. This was how we
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 5, 2009
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        Hi Marianna;

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Mmayer11" <mmayer11@...>
        > Can any member on the List tell me about FortiFlora?

        Pepper had chronic diarrhea because fluids were spilling into the GI tract
        somehow. This was how we found his heart condition. After trying pumpkin,
        rice bran, and every other thing that had been suggested we were offered Pro
        Pectalin by the vet, which tempered his feces so that he was getting soft
        stools. When FortiFlora was introduced, he very quickly changed to having a
        little string of 'pearls' once a day. It got to the point that he was
        producing stools that looked a little hard so we had to back off and have
        taken him off the FortiFlora completely........we had thought he would need
        it for his lifetime.

        FortiFlora has also worked well for a couple of our other cats with one or
        two doses of 3 #3 capsules full.

        Needless to say, we swear by it in this house. (-:

        Pat and all the boys.
        http://felinenutritionalnotes.blogspot.com/
        http://petfoodpitfalls.blogspot.com/
      • savionna@aol.com
        Hi Marianna, ... It s a probiotic product made by Purina. See http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/FelineProductDetail.aspx?prod=240 The concept of using
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 10, 2009
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          Hi Marianna,

          In a message dated 4/5/09 2:36:16 PM, mmayer11@... writes:

          > Can any member on the List tell me about FortiFlora?
          >
          It's a probiotic product made by Purina. See
          http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/FelineProductDetail.aspx?prod=240

          The concept of using beneficial bacteria to help balance the ecosystem of
          the digestive tract is sound. But there are a few drawbacks with FortiFlora
          that make it less desirable than the other options available to achieve the
          same end.

          FortiFlora contains only one type of bacteria: Enterococcus faecium. B/c
          the cat's digestive tract contains many species of bacteria (at least 129 were
          identified by 1977), it could be considered desirable to support more than
          one bacteria...esp considering that we can't readily determine which
          bacteria remain viable in a commercial product and which bacteria in the particular
          cat's system need support/replenishment/balancing.

          And use of E. faecium is controversial. A few references:

          From "Bacteriological evaluation of dog and cat diets that claim to contain
          probiotics" by Department of Clinical Studies, Ontario Veterinary College
          in the Canadian Vet Journal (2003): "...[C]oncern has been expressed over the
          use of enterococci, because they can be opportunistic pathogens and
          probiotic strains of enterococci are able to transfer the vanA gene; the gene
          responsible for vancomycin resistance."

          From a thesis entitled "The Use of a Probiotic in Captive Cheetahs" (2004)
          for the Dept of Veterinary Tropical Diseases at University of Pretoria:
          "Even though not all strains of enterococci are considered a health risk, the
          use of enterococci as probiotics is controversial."

          Also, FortiFlora is relatively low potency, containing only 100 million
          organisms per gram. Since we don't know how many organisms remain viable in a
          product...and since we also don't know the typically effective amt for cats
          in general or an individual cat...it makes sense to provide more rather than
          fewer. This isn't always the case...in fact with cats it often isn't...but
          with something as generally benign, and as fragile, as probiotics, it
          applies. Another advantage of a higher organism count is that you can give less of
          the product. Say a typical target dose for a cat is 2 billion organisms.
          That would require 20g of FortiFlora (about 3/4 oz). But it would require only
          0.5g of a product with 4 billion organisms per g. Which would make it easier
          to administer for those cats who don't readily tolerate an alteration in
          food or having remedies administered.

          And, FortiFlora contains a number of questionable ingredients, incl, for
          example, animal digest as ingredient #1 (which is basically "predigested"
          unspecified animal tissue) and beta-carotene (which has a limited role for cats,
          since it cannot be converted to Vit A...and it's particularly egregious in
          this case since Purina promotes the product as containing "high levels" of
          Vit A).

          And, there is no indication of source of the bacteria. Some cats cannot
          well tolerate dairy-source probiotics and do better on nondairy or trace-dairy.
          So it would be helpful to have source specified.

          For all these reasons, if it's desirable for a cat to have probiotics, the
          money is more wisely spent on a high-quality human product with
          nondairy-source (or trace dairy), mixed-strain, high-potency probiotics. There are a
          number of products available that fit that description, such as, for example,
          UAS Labs DDS (with 5 billion organisms/g, nondairy, 2 species).

          One other thing. I think it's important when selecting a remedy to evaluate
          why it's needed. In theory, a cat should be able to maintain a healthy
          balance of digestive system flora and produce healthy stool. That can be upset
          by, say, antibiotics...as well as by species-inappropriate diet (particularly
          dry food, with grains and other starches and lack of moisture), which
          contributes to inflammation, which contributes to diarrhea, which is the main
          reason probiotics are used with cats. So if the cat, for example, is eating dry
          food and has diarrhea from that...probiotics are going to help to some
          extent in bringing in beneficial bacteria to balance the pathogenic ones. But
          the real goal would be for the cat to be on a species-appropriate food that
          doesn't provoke inflammation. This is particularly important with heart cats,
          b/c any health problem becomes magnified...and b/c problems such as chronic
          diarrhea contribute to dehydration. // Rosemary




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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mmayer11
          Thank you, Rosemary. I did receive some kind responses to my question. I am grateful for the carefully researched detail you have provided. Earlier I googled
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 10, 2009
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            Thank you, Rosemary.
            I did receive some kind responses to my question. I am grateful for the carefully researched detail you have provided. Earlier I "googled" the product name. I saw who the manufacturer is. I concluded that I would not be interested in FortiFlora should any of my cats need a probiotic. They don't. They on a home prepared raw diet. However I have on hand for this purpose a product named Ultra Probiotic for dog and cats. The manufacturer is Bert's Naturals,
            www.b-naturals.com
            I think it meets a higher standard than FortiFlora. I would be interested to learn what you think of it.






            Marianna







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mmayer11
            Thank you, Rosemary. I did receive some kind responses to my question. I am grateful for the carefully researched detail you have provided. Earlier I googled
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 11, 2009
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              Thank you, Rosemary.

              I did receive some kind responses to my question. I am grateful for the carefully researched detail you have provided. Earlier I "googled" the product name. I saw who the manufacturer is. I concluded that I would not be interested in FortiFlora should any of my cats need a probiotic. They don't. They on a home prepared raw diet. However I have on hand for this purpose a product named Ultra Probiotic for dog and cats. The manufacturer is Bert's Naturals,

              www.b-naturals.com

              I think it meets a higher standard than FortiFlora. I would be interested to learn what you think of it.













              Marianna













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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • savionna@aol.com
              Hi Marianna, ... I m with you. I think there are better choices, with fewer ingredients, higher potency, and more than one species of beneficial bacteria. ...
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 20, 2009
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                Hi Marianna,

                In a message dated 4/11/09 1:35:52 AM, Mmayer11 writes:

                > Thank you
                >
                > You're welcome.

                > I concluded that I would not be interested in FortiFlora should any of my
                > cats need a probiotic.
                >
                I'm with you. I think there are better choices, with fewer ingredients,
                higher potency, and more than one species of beneficial bacteria.

                > They don't. They on a home prepared raw diet.
                >
                Ah, ok. I didn't know if you were looking into this to address a current
                problem.

                > However I have on hand for this purpose a product named Ultra Probiotic
                > for dog and cats. The manufacturer is Bert's Naturals,
                > www.b-naturals.com
                > I think it meets a higher standard than FortiFlora. I would be interested
                > to learn what you think of it.
                >
                I think it's somewhat a step ahead of FortiFlora, as you said. But there
                are a few little boogers in there to think about. It does contain mixed
                strain, which is useful...but it also contains whey, which might (repeat: might)
                be a problem for some sensitive cats who react with milk proteins, and yeast
                (S. cerevisiae), which can also be problematic with some cats (tho S.
                boulardii is a yeast-based type of probiotic that some cats respond to when they
                don't respond to the usual Lactobacillus, Bifido, etc). This is also kinda
                low potency, at 100 million organisms/g...and I think it's useful to have a
                higher potency so we can administer less. // Rosemary





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