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Re: [FH] Re: Saddle Thrombosis

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  • Belinda Sauro
    Hi Gail, My sister in law s kitty, Gray, suffered this at 18 years of age, it took a month or so but he completed regained the use of his legs and lived
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 26, 2008
      Hi Gail,
      My sister in law's kitty, Gray, suffered this at 18 years of age, it
      took a month or so but he completed regained the use of his legs and
      lived another 2 years or so without any further problems. She had to
      express his bladder and did the exercises you were talking about to keep
      the circulation in his legs going. He did very well once he regained
      the use of his legs. My prayers to Mommy and you to get through this also.

      --

      Belinda
      happiness is being owned by cats ...

      http://bemikitties.com

      http://BelindaSauro.com
    • MekaNoel@aol.com
      HI Gail, My cat Tazo had a saddle thrombus and?he scooted around for a while but he eventually was able to walk normally again. We gave him aspirin every 3rd
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 26, 2008
        HI Gail,
        My cat Tazo had a saddle thrombus and?he scooted around for a while but he eventually was able to walk normally again. We gave him aspirin every 3rd day. He was a rescue cat and quite skiddish. He would always run from us. After the thrombus he pretty much ran on his front legs and dragged the back and he was really fast. I had to be quick to catch him. It was amazing how fast he could go on 2 legs. Little by little the feeling in the back legs came back and then he was walking normally. We also messaged his hind legs. He didn't seem to be in any type of pain.

        Linda and Nikko, missing Meka, Stichie, Dancer, Lucy


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • savionna@aol.com
        Hi Gail, ... Great. I don t know how many litter boxes you have or the layout of your home...but do you think it would help her to add more litter boxes, so
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 29, 2008
          Hi Gail,

          In a message dated 12/25/08 7:58:01 PM, galenarizona@... writes:

          > She will get herself in and out
          > of her potty box but I am also assiting by putting her in the correct
          > position in the box in the morning and evening.
          >
          Great. I don't know how many litter boxes you have or the layout of your
          home...but do you think it would help her to add more litter boxes, so she doesn't
          have far to go if she needs one? Also, in thinking about her crawling...do
          the floor surfaces need any softening? Eg, if you have tile or wood, do you
          think it would help her to have some soft (cheap) throw rugs (with a grip
          underlayment) on the floors?

          > At this point the accupuncturist feels we have done what can be done
          > and we should look forward to braces or a wheelchair.
          >
          I'm wondering what the acupuncturist is seeing in Mommy that led to that
          conclusion...after 4 treatments in 4 wks. With no disrespect meant whatsoever, is
          this a vet who is experienced with Traditional Chinese Medicine as a
          discipline (and/or other modalities) as part of a whole-animal approach...or a vet who
          is using acupuncture as a "mechanical" technique? I'm asking b/c I think that
          can make a diff. in perspective. I'm wondering if Mommy may require more or
          different intervention and more time for her recovery.

          > The accupuncturist has suggested an animal physical therapist - any
          > input on that would be great - the question I have is what more can
          > be done if the nerves are just not working.
          >
          They may not be working now...but that doesn't mean they never will work. So
          I think the suggestion of physical therapy is sound.

          There are a number of vets (allopathic and integrative) who do rehab. I don't
          know if they're near you or offer anything that can help Mommy specifically.
          But it might be worthwhile picking their brains...even tho most of the rehab
          applies to dogs, you can ask what they offer or what can be done for cats. A
          coupla names are:

          1. Dr McCauley at Tops Vet Rehab in Chicago area at
          http://www.tops-vet-rehab.com
          2. Dr Mayer at Integrative Pet Care in Chicago at
          http://www.integrativepetcare.com
          3. Dr Danoff in Vienna, VA, at http://vetrehab.org
          4. Dr Sodhi in Seattle at http://www.holistic-pet-care.com

          If you're in Arizona (guessing from your address), there's Dr Aronson in
          Tucson at http://pawstucson.com . I don't know any of these vets personally and am
          not recommending them. Just tossing out ideas.

          Also, if you haven't checked already, maybe wade thru the listings at
          http://www.holisticvetlist.com for your state to see if any of the integrative
          practitioners does rehab...or call around to see if the vets know anyone who might
          be a good fit for your needs. In addition to the rehab techniques of
          electro-stim, laser, ultrasound, etc and the acupuncture you're already using, there's
          also chiropractic (or VOM) and Reiki. Reiki can be done long-distance, and
          there are Reiki masters who will come to the house for animals. Another
          possibility is Bowen Technique, which is now also being used with animals (practitioners
          are few and far between...but there may be one near you).

          Some other ideas might be to support the neuromuscular system. Eg, there's
          methylcobalamin (a form of Vit B12)...and L-carnitine (a nutrient already being
          used with heart cats)...and D-ribose (a nutrient also being used with human
          heart patients and possibly some cats)...and Bioplasma (cell salts that are
          important in overall function and can aid muscles/nerves...Susan used it with her
          Pepper some time ago, info in archives). There might also be protomorphogens
          and sarcodes, too...but that would take some digging, so I'll leave it.

          I'm not recommending any of these for Mommy specifically. Am just responding
          to your sense of feeling at a loss...that there are options to think about for
          her. // Rosemary


          **************
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Judi Levens
          Hi all; My cat Max is a 12.5 yr old black and white tuxedo with HCM. He has a very strange problem at the moment, and I thought I d run it by the group to
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 29, 2008
            Hi all; My cat Max is a 12.5 yr old black and white tuxedo with HCM. He has a very strange problem at the moment, and I thought I'd run it by the group to see if anyone has heard of anything like this. He's always had a pink nose with a small black spot on it above one nostril (I'm going to try to attach a photo). Recently he has a new black spot above the other nostril...it doesn't look like a "growth" or anything external, it looks like the skin changed color...however, I realize that is pretty unlikely. Should I be worried about skin cancer? he doesn't spend a lot of time in the sun, but we do live in Mexico so the sun is very bright and reflective. If I should be worried about it, what would I do? The vets where we live are not very good, so I don't know if they'd have any experience, and frankly I hate to crate him up and bring him out for that level of knowledge. I think I remember someone saying that his mother's cat had skin cancer on her nose and they covered it with the white stuff lifeguard's wear...Max hates smelly stuff (he's asthmatic too) so I don' t know if he'd tolerate anything on his nose. Anyway, I know this is a crazy question, but if something's wrong I don't want to miss it. Thanks to anyone who has any suggestions...Judi and Max (and John and Angel Cleo)






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Judi Levens
            forgot the photo...here he is! From: casaobelisco@hotmail.comTo: feline-heart@yahoogroups.comSubject: strange questionDate: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:21:39 -0800 Hi
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 29, 2008
              forgot the photo...here he is!

              From: casaobelisco@...: feline-heart@yahoogroups.comSubject: strange questionDate: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:21:39 -0800

              Hi all; My cat Max is a 12.5 yr old black and white tuxedo with HCM. He has a very strange problem at the moment, and I thought I'd run it by the group to see if anyone has heard of anything like this. He's always had a pink nose with a small black spot on it above one nostril (I'm going to try to attach a photo). Recently he has a new black spot above the other nostril...it doesn't look like a "growth" or anything external, it looks like the skin changed color...however, I realize that is pretty unlikely. Should I be worried about skin cancer? he doesn't spend a lot of time in the sun, but we do live in Mexico so the sun is very bright and reflective. If I should be worried about it, what would I do? The vets where we live are not very good, so I don't know if they'd have any experience, and frankly I hate to crate him up and bring him out for that level of knowledge. I think I remember someone saying that his mother's cat had skin cancer on her nose and they covered it with the white stuff lifeguard's wear...Max hates smelly stuff (he's asthmatic too) so I don' t know if he'd tolerate anything on his nose. Anyway, I know this is a crazy question, but if something's wrong I don't want to miss it. Thanks to anyone who has any suggestions...Judi and Max (and John and Angel Cleo)






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • cutandpastemag
              Hey, I found that as my cat got older the more black spots developed on his nose. I think its a sign of ageing myself. See what everyone else thinks! Love
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 29, 2008
                Hey, I found that as my cat got older the more black spots developed
                on his nose. I think its a sign of ageing myself. See what everyone
                else thinks!
                Love Emily
              • elfinmyst@aol.com
                Hi John Black/brown patches are common in ginger cats. They appear over a lifetime and are harmless. I have never heard of a patch appearing in cats except
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 30, 2008
                  Hi John

                  Black/brown patches are common in ginger cats. They appear over a lifetime
                  and are harmless. I have never heard of a patch appearing in cats except
                  red/cream/ginger, so would definitely get it checked out. If it is an early
                  growth, it can be removed or frozen with cryosurgery and if it is nothing to worry
                  about, you'll get peace of mind.

                  :)Lyn

                  _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Leah Ferron
                  Judi,   I have a tuxedo kitty that has developed black spots above his nose that were once a plain white/pink area. It looks to be just a change in skin
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 30, 2008
                    Judi,
                     
                    I have a tuxedo kitty that has developed black spots above his nose that were once a plain white/pink area. It looks to be just a change in skin pigmentation on my kitty, as the vet was not concerned with it and there is no bump/lump, just color change. It freaked me out too. It never hurts to just ask the vet about it the net time you are in to see them.
                     
                    Leah and her cats and Angel Alec






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Pat
                    Hi Leah and All; ... From: Leah Ferron ... Cryosurgery is a great preventive tool, however, I think most vets haven t bothered to
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 30, 2008
                      Hi Leah and All;

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Leah Ferron" <leahandhercats@...>
                      >It never hurts to just ask the vet about it the net time you are in to see
                      >them.

                      Cryosurgery is a great preventive tool, however, I think most vets haven't
                      bothered to invest in the tool needed, or don't understand the value of its
                      usage. There doesn't have to be a bump there for precancerous cells to be
                      present, so I agree that this is something to bring up to the vet, and with
                      so much cancer developing in pets these days it is good to have a vet who is
                      aware of all the preventive options.

                      Pat and all the boys.
                      http://felinenutritionalnotes.blogspot.com/
                      http://petfoodpitfalls.blogspot.com/
                    • savionna@aol.com
                      Hi Judi, ... Do you mean zinc oxide? Not generally a good idea with cats. Granted, dose makes the poison (to paraphrase Paracelsus)...and the references are
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jan 5, 2009
                        Hi Judi,

                        In a message dated 12/29/08 7:22:02 PM, casaobelisco@... writes:

                        > I think I remember someone saying that his mother's cat had skin cancer on
                        > her nose and they covered it with the white stuff lifeguard's wear
                        >
                        Do you mean zinc oxide? Not generally a good idea with cats. Granted, dose
                        makes the poison (to paraphrase Paracelsus)...and the references are largely
                        about ingestion rather than absorption. But cats will often lick preparations off
                        the skin in addition to chemicals being absorbed thru the skin...and the
                        Merck Vet Manual, Pet Education, Pet Place, and Mar Vista Vets do list zinc oxide
                        skin ointments as a source of toxicity. With cats being so sensitive to so
                        many chemicals, it might be risky to apply this to a cat.

                        From "Common Cat Toxicities" from Cornell's Dept of Animal Science: "Zinc
                        oxide poisoning can occur from the ingestion of houshold products containing zinc
                        oxide such as diaper rash products, rubber products, cosmetics, batteries,
                        soaps, and printing inks. Acute zinc oxide toxicity results in severe vomiting,
                        CNS depression, and lethargy."

                        From "Dr Carol's Naturally Healthy Cats" by Carol Osborne DVM: "...[S]ome
                        sunscreen products contain zinc oxide, which is toxic to cats if ingested."

                        > Thanks to anyone who has any suggestions
                        >
                        Sun screening suggestions for cats are hard, b/c many of the ingredients in
                        sunscreen products are potentially toxic to humans, let alone cats, who are
                        much more sensitive and have less tolerance for error. I think with cats, a
                        physical barrier is less risky than a chemical one...if you can keep the cat in a
                        shaded area. A long while back there was a cat named Poose who had been rescued
                        from Sri Lanka to live in Germany...and who, besides FIV and diabetes, also
                        developed skin cancer on the ears. The caregiver made a hat. That's not an
                        option for the nose, of course...but just an example of using a physical sun
                        barrier rather than a chemical one. Photos of Poose in his hat are at:
                        http://www.poose.de/story/update2.php. A rough translation of the information above the
                        photos for those who don't speak German: "Poose loves to sun himself. He's a
                        born sun-worshipper. But the squamous cell carcinoma on both ears prevents him
                        from sunbathing. This type of cancer is caused by sun exposure. Such a carcinoma
                        can also develop on the eyelids or nose. But how can we make Poose understand
                        that? We got the idea to sew a sun-shield for him. A type of hat that would
                        protect the sensitive skin areas from the sun. So Poose could take his sunbath
                        without his face and ears being affected." // Rosemary
                        >


                        **************
                        New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
                        headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Dee
                        Hi, I put my beloved cat to sleep last night. I stayed up most of the night trying to massage his legs, give him hepirin shots, pain killers. He started
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 21, 2012
                          Hi,
                          I put my beloved cat to sleep last night.
                          I stayed up most of the night trying to massage his legs, give him hepirin shots, pain killers.

                          He started shallow breathing at 5am. Seemed very distressed.
                          I took him to ER vet. Decided to euthanize. I held him as he passed.
                          Was this right to do?
                          Dee
                        • Jennifer Dinzey
                          Im sorry about your loss.  You didnt want to watch him suffer.  I have been through this before also with my dog i had. Held him as he went to sleep
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 21, 2012
                            Im sorry about your loss.  You didnt want to watch him suffer.  I have been through this before also with my dog i had. Held him as he went to sleep forever.  Your baby will be in peace and will breathe freely now and not suffer. 


                            Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Judi Levens
                            Hi Dee; it was the right and the only thing to do...so very sorry for your loss. I m sure he felt a great sense of relief from the pain and suffering, and
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 21, 2012
                              Hi Dee; it was the right and the only thing to do...so very sorry for your loss. I'm sure he felt a great sense of relief from the pain and suffering, and knew that you helped him and were with him. Do not feel bad...the most difficult decision I have ever made, but the only one which can be made. Big hugs...Judi and Angel Max



                              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                              From: stripedcat9000@...
                              Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:30:52 +0000
                              Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis




























                              Hi,

                              I put my beloved cat to sleep last night.

                              I stayed up most of the night trying to massage his legs, give him hepirin shots, pain killers.



                              He started shallow breathing at 5am. Seemed very distressed.

                              I took him to ER vet. Decided to euthanize. I held him as he passed.

                              Was this right to do?

                              Dee


















                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Marycay Doolittle
                              Dee, So sorry for your loss. Please don t second guess yourself. Your baby was suffering and you helped him pass to the bridge for a life that is once again
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 21, 2012
                                Dee,

                                So sorry for your loss. Please don't second guess yourself. Your baby was suffering and you helped him pass to the bridge for a life that is once again whole, happy and joyful as he waits to reunite with you in the future. Holding him while he passed was a comfort for him & you I'm sure; I've done the same thing in the past. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

                                Marycay




                                Hi,
                                I put my beloved cat to sleep last night.
                                I stayed up most of the night trying to massage his legs, give him hepirin shots, pain killers.

                                He started shallow breathing at 5am. Seemed very distressed.
                                I took him to ER vet. Decided to euthanize. I held him as he passed.
                                Was this right to do?
                                Dee






                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Dee R
                                Thank you so much. I needed to hear this. I feel awful but didn t know what else to do. Dee ________________________________ From: Jennifer Dinzey
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 21, 2012
                                  Thank you so much.
                                  I needed to hear this.
                                  I feel awful but didn't know what else to do.
                                  Dee



                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Jennifer Dinzey <plutosmuse143@...>
                                  To: "feline-heart@yahoogroups.com" <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>; "stripedcat9000@..." <stripedcat9000@...>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 11:49 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis


                                  Im sorry about your loss. You didnt want to watch him suffer. I have been through this before also with my dog i had. Held him as he went to sleep forever. Your baby will be in peace and will breathe freely now and not suffer.



                                  Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Dee <stripedcat9000@...>;
                                  To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>;
                                  Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis
                                  Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 7:30:52 PM


                                   
                                  Hi,
                                  I put my beloved cat to sleep last night.
                                  I stayed up most of the night trying to massage his legs, give him hepirin shots, pain killers.

                                  He started shallow breathing at 5am. Seemed very distressed.
                                  I took him to ER vet. Decided to euthanize. I held him as he passed.
                                  Was this right to do?
                                  Dee




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Jennifer Dinzey
                                  You did the right thing honey. We will be with them again one day. Believe Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 21, 2012
                                    You did the right thing honey. We will be with them again one day. Believe


                                    Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Sophie
                                    Hi all, As is a risk with all kittys that have heart disease, saddle thrombosis is something I worry quite a bit about; no-one wants to see that happen to
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Aug 11, 2012
                                      Hi all,

                                      As is a risk with all kittys that have heart disease, saddle thrombosis is something I worry quite a bit about; no-one wants to see that happen to their baby!

                                      I have been trying to look up the symptoms and early warning signs and of course there is some information but I wanted to come here and see if any member could help. Maybe members who have been through it or professionals who have seen it can explain better than a general 'guide' on the internet.

                                      Things like: How is the cat acting; breathing rate; heart rate; temperature of legs (lukewarm vs freezing etc.); colour of pads (grey vs light pink vs dark pink etc.); temperment; temperment when touching the legs; eating habits; sleeping habits (lethargy etc.); colour of nails (if there is a blue tint to the nails, it is obvious?); pulse rate in legs (and how to find it!); is there 'a look' in their eyes? Can you tell something isn't right if it isn't?

                                      Things like this are not covered on the internet and human family members of cats may have seen this or had their own experience that cannot be posted on a 'guide' like I said.

                                      I ask because I am keeping an eye on my Lisa. She seems ok and everything normal but her paw pads are a light pink and if I remember correctly they are normally slightly darker so it is something I want to keep an eye on. She is a bit moany when I touch her legs (although she has never been a fan of that anyway) but usually she is a bit more tolerant with allowing me to. When being stroked she is also visibly abdominal breathing and 'quivering' but this goes when her breathing rate returns to normal.

                                      It is probably nothing but I will keep an eye on her but it would be helpful to know if there are any very early warning signs that you could notice before paralysis of the legs?

                                      Many thanks for any help you can provide,
                                      Sophie.
                                    • Toby Jones
                                      In my experience, the onset of Saddle Thrombosis (ATE) was extremely quick.  My boy, Eli, had three (or was it four?) episodes.  Typically cats cannot walk
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Aug 15, 2012
                                        In my experience, the onset of Saddle Thrombosis (ATE) was extremely quick.  My boy, Eli, had three (or was it four?) episodes.  "Typically" cats cannot walk on their hind legs and are in a incredible amount of pain.  The first episode was quite "typical" of what I have read about on the internet.  The subsequent episodes Eli did not appear to be in pain, but immediately after the ATE he could not walk on his hind legs, there was no detectable pulse in his hind legs (checked by vet with a stethoscope), his paw pads were cold, and his nailbeds lost their pink coloring.

                                        More than anything I would encourage you to consider what you will do should ATE occur.  Many vets are inclined to euthanize and may push for it.  Eli survived for six months (about average for an episode of ATE) after his first episode, but that included almost two weeks off and on in the vet hospital.  I'm sure some people would question the ethics on that, but to me, the extra time together was worth it.  Also, the costs of treatment are pretty extreme.  And, perhaps the only upshot of ATE is that there are far worse places that a blood clot can go (i.e. brain or lungs).  With ATE, at least you have a shot at saving your kitty (albeit it temporary)... many people have cats that die instantly from this cruel disease.


                                        That's my two cents...

                                        Ryan


                                        ________________________________
                                        From: Sophie <sophie.ludlam@...>
                                        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:23 AM
                                        Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis


                                         
                                        Hi all,

                                        As is a risk with all kittys that have heart disease, saddle thrombosis is something I worry quite a bit about; no-one wants to see that happen to their baby!

                                        I have been trying to look up the symptoms and early warning signs and of course there is some information but I wanted to come here and see if any member could help. Maybe members who have been through it or professionals who have seen it can explain better than a general 'guide' on the internet.

                                        Things like: How is the cat acting; breathing rate; heart rate; temperature of legs (lukewarm vs freezing etc.); colour of pads (grey vs light pink vs dark pink etc.); temperment; temperment when touching the legs; eating habits; sleeping habits (lethargy etc.); colour of nails (if there is a blue tint to the nails, it is obvious?); pulse rate in legs (and how to find it!); is there 'a look' in their eyes? Can you tell something isn't right if it isn't?

                                        Things like this are not covered on the internet and human family members of cats may have seen this or had their own experience that cannot be posted on a 'guide' like I said.

                                        I ask because I am keeping an eye on my Lisa. She seems ok and everything normal but her paw pads are a light pink and if I remember correctly they are normally slightly darker so it is something I want to keep an eye on. She is a bit moany when I touch her legs (although she has never been a fan of that anyway) but usually she is a bit more tolerant with allowing me to. When being stroked she is also visibly abdominal breathing and 'quivering' but this goes when her breathing rate returns to normal.

                                        It is probably nothing but I will keep an eye on her but it would be helpful to know if there are any very early warning signs that you could notice before paralysis of the legs?

                                        Many thanks for any help you can provide,
                                        Sophie.




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Westgold
                                        did your vet treat with heparin right away? Please give us some more details on how your kitty was helped -- ... From: Toby Jones To: Sophie ;
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Aug 15, 2012
                                          did your vet treat with heparin right away? Please give us some more details on how your kitty was helped --
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Toby Jones
                                          To: Sophie ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:39 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis



                                          In my experience, the onset of Saddle Thrombosis (ATE) was extremely quick. My boy, Eli, had three (or was it four?) episodes. "Typically" cats cannot walk on their hind legs and are in a incredible amount of pain. The first episode was quite "typical" of what I have read about on the internet. The subsequent episodes Eli did not appear to be in pain, but immediately after the ATE he could not walk on his hind legs, there was no detectable pulse in his hind legs (checked by vet with a stethoscope), his paw pads were cold, and his nailbeds lost their pink coloring.

                                          More than anything I would encourage you to consider what you will do should ATE occur. Many vets are inclined to euthanize and may push for it. Eli survived for six months (about average for an episode of ATE) after his first episode, but that included almost two weeks off and on in the vet hospital. I'm sure some people would question the ethics on that, but to me, the extra time together was worth it. Also, the costs of treatment are pretty extreme. And, perhaps the only upshot of ATE is that there are far worse places that a blood clot can go (i.e. brain or lungs). With ATE, at least you have a shot at saving your kitty (albeit it temporary)... many people have cats that die instantly from this cruel disease.

                                          That's my two cents...

                                          Ryan

                                          ________________________________
                                          From: Sophie <sophie.ludlam@...>
                                          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:23 AM
                                          Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis



                                          Hi all,

                                          As is a risk with all kittys that have heart disease, saddle thrombosis is something I worry quite a bit about; no-one wants to see that happen to their baby!

                                          I have been trying to look up the symptoms and early warning signs and of course there is some information but I wanted to come here and see if any member could help. Maybe members who have been through it or professionals who have seen it can explain better than a general 'guide' on the internet.

                                          Things like: How is the cat acting; breathing rate; heart rate; temperature of legs (lukewarm vs freezing etc.); colour of pads (grey vs light pink vs dark pink etc.); temperment; temperment when touching the legs; eating habits; sleeping habits (lethargy etc.); colour of nails (if there is a blue tint to the nails, it is obvious?); pulse rate in legs (and how to find it!); is there 'a look' in their eyes? Can you tell something isn't right if it isn't?

                                          Things like this are not covered on the internet and human family members of cats may have seen this or had their own experience that cannot be posted on a 'guide' like I said.

                                          I ask because I am keeping an eye on my Lisa. She seems ok and everything normal but her paw pads are a light pink and if I remember correctly they are normally slightly darker so it is something I want to keep an eye on. She is a bit moany when I touch her legs (although she has never been a fan of that anyway) but usually she is a bit more tolerant with allowing me to. When being stroked she is also visibly abdominal breathing and 'quivering' but this goes when her breathing rate returns to normal.

                                          It is probably nothing but I will keep an eye on her but it would be helpful to know if there are any very early warning signs that you could notice before paralysis of the legs?

                                          Many thanks for any help you can provide,
                                          Sophie.

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Toby Jones
                                          The vet did not treat with Heparin; if I recall correctly Heparin is used as a preventative for clot formation (although not studied, yet), and is not
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Aug 16, 2012
                                            The vet did not treat with Heparin; if I recall correctly Heparin is used as a preventative for clot formation (although not studied, yet), and is not necessarily effective for assisting in dissolving clots.  What they did for Eli was put him on pain meds, put him in an oxygen chamber, and hook him up to an IV for fluids.  He went into CHF due to the ATE, and so they tried to ease the workload on his body as much as possible.  Later he began developing pulmonary edema, and so lasix were added.

                                            Ryan



                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Westgold <westgold@...>
                                            To: Toby Jones <tobythelegend@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 3:31 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis


                                             
                                            did your vet treat with heparin right away? Please give us some more details on how your kitty was helped --
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Toby Jones
                                            To: Sophie ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:39 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis

                                            In my experience, the onset of Saddle Thrombosis (ATE) was extremely quick. My boy, Eli, had three (or was it four?) episodes. "Typically" cats cannot walk on their hind legs and are in a incredible amount of pain. The first episode was quite "typical" of what I have read about on the internet. The subsequent episodes Eli did not appear to be in pain, but immediately after the ATE he could not walk on his hind legs, there was no detectable pulse in his hind legs (checked by vet with a stethoscope), his paw pads were cold, and his nailbeds lost their pink coloring.

                                            More than anything I would encourage you to consider what you will do should ATE occur. Many vets are inclined to euthanize and may push for it. Eli survived for six months (about average for an episode of ATE) after his first episode, but that included almost two weeks off and on in the vet hospital. I'm sure some people would question the ethics on that, but to me, the extra time together was worth it. Also, the costs of treatment are pretty extreme. And, perhaps the only upshot of ATE is that there are far worse places that a blood clot can go (i.e. brain or lungs). With ATE, at least you have a shot at saving your kitty (albeit it temporary)... many people have cats that die instantly from this cruel disease.

                                            That's my two cents...

                                            Ryan

                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Sophie <sophie.ludlam@...>
                                            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:23 AM
                                            Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis

                                            Hi all,

                                            As is a risk with all kittys that have heart disease, saddle thrombosis is something I worry quite a bit about; no-one wants to see that happen to their baby!

                                            I have been trying to look up the symptoms and early warning signs and of course there is some information but I wanted to come here and see if any member could help. Maybe members who have been through it or professionals who have seen it can explain better than a general 'guide' on the internet.

                                            Things like: How is the cat acting; breathing rate; heart rate; temperature of legs (lukewarm vs freezing etc.); colour of pads (grey vs light pink vs dark pink etc.); temperment; temperment when touching the legs; eating habits; sleeping habits (lethargy etc.); colour of nails (if there is a blue tint to the nails, it is obvious?); pulse rate in legs (and how to find it!); is there 'a look' in their eyes? Can you tell something isn't right if it isn't?

                                            Things like this are not covered on the internet and human family members of cats may have seen this or had their own experience that cannot be posted on a 'guide' like I said.

                                            I ask because I am keeping an eye on my Lisa. She seems ok and everything normal but her paw pads are a light pink and if I remember correctly they are normally slightly darker so it is something I want to keep an eye on. She is a bit moany when I touch her legs (although she has never been a fan of that anyway) but usually she is a bit more tolerant with allowing me to. When being stroked she is also visibly abdominal breathing and 'quivering' but this goes when her breathing rate returns to normal.

                                            It is probably nothing but I will keep an eye on her but it would be helpful to know if there are any very early warning signs that you could notice before paralysis of the legs?

                                            Many thanks for any help you can provide,
                                            Sophie.

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Westgold
                                            Heparin is the first drug they give when there is a clot, I m surprised your vet didn t do it. Even in that TV show about the tabby cat with a clot, the first
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Aug 16, 2012
                                              Heparin is the first drug they give when there is a clot, I'm surprised your vet didn't do it. Even in that TV show about the tabby cat with a clot, the first thing they did was give herparin. It took a little while to work, but it did. But thanks for telling us about the supportive care your kitty got. We all learned something today!
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Toby Jones
                                              To: Westgold ; feline-heart
                                              Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:27 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis


                                              The vet did not treat with Heparin; if I recall correctly Heparin is used as a preventative for clot formation (although not studied, yet), and is not necessarily effective for assisting in dissolving clots. What they did for Eli was put him on pain meds, put him in an oxygen chamber, and hook him up to an IV for fluids. He went into CHF due to the ATE, and so they tried to ease the workload on his body as much as possible. Later he began developing pulmonary edema, and so lasix were added.


                                              Ryan




                                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              From: Westgold <westgold@...>
                                              To: Toby Jones <tobythelegend@...>; feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 3:31 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis




                                              did your vet treat with heparin right away? Please give us some more details on how your kitty was helped --
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Toby Jones
                                              To: Sophie ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:39 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis

                                              In my experience, the onset of Saddle Thrombosis (ATE) was extremely quick. My boy, Eli, had three (or was it four?) episodes. "Typically" cats cannot walk on their hind legs and are in a incredible amount of pain. The first episode was quite "typical" of what I have read about on the internet. The subsequent episodes Eli did not appear to be in pain, but immediately after the ATE he could not walk on his hind legs, there was no detectable pulse in his hind legs (checked by vet with a stethoscope), his paw pads were cold, and his nailbeds lost their pink coloring.

                                              More than anything I would encourage you to consider what you will do should ATE occur. Many vets are inclined to euthanize and may push for it. Eli survived for six months (about average for an episode of ATE) after his first episode, but that included almost two weeks off and on in the vet hospital. I'm sure some people would question the ethics on that, but to me, the extra time together was worth it. Also, the costs of treatment are pretty extreme. And, perhaps the only upshot of ATE is that there are far worse places that a blood clot can go (i.e. brain or lungs). With ATE, at least you have a shot at saving your kitty (albeit it temporary)... many people have cats that die instantly from this cruel disease.

                                              That's my two cents...

                                              Ryan

                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Sophie <sophie.ludlam@...>
                                              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:23 AM
                                              Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombosis

                                              Hi all,

                                              As is a risk with all kittys that have heart disease, saddle thrombosis is something I worry quite a bit about; no-one wants to see that happen to their baby!

                                              I have been trying to look up the symptoms and early warning signs and of course there is some information but I wanted to come here and see if any member could help. Maybe members who have been through it or professionals who have seen it can explain better than a general 'guide' on the internet.

                                              Things like: How is the cat acting; breathing rate; heart rate; temperature of legs (lukewarm vs freezing etc.); colour of pads (grey vs light pink vs dark pink etc.); temperment; temperment when touching the legs; eating habits; sleeping habits (lethargy etc.); colour of nails (if there is a blue tint to the nails, it is obvious?); pulse rate in legs (and how to find it!); is there 'a look' in their eyes? Can you tell something isn't right if it isn't?

                                              Things like this are not covered on the internet and human family members of cats may have seen this or had their own experience that cannot be posted on a 'guide' like I said.

                                              I ask because I am keeping an eye on my Lisa. She seems ok and everything normal but her paw pads are a light pink and if I remember correctly they are normally slightly darker so it is something I want to keep an eye on. She is a bit moany when I touch her legs (although she has never been a fan of that anyway) but usually she is a bit more tolerant with allowing me to. When being stroked she is also visibly abdominal breathing and 'quivering' but this goes when her breathing rate returns to normal.

                                              It is probably nothing but I will keep an eye on her but it would be helpful to know if there are any very early warning signs that you could notice before paralysis of the legs?

                                              Many thanks for any help you can provide,
                                              Sophie.

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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