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Re: [FH] Fat in raw food

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  • Bettina Schmolla
    Hi Pat, ... Fortunately my cats (and many other German cats who get normal raw food with app. 1/3 fat 2/3 proteine in the meat part of the food - but no or
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 28, 2008
      Hi Pat,

      > You mentioned changing to raw, which may work really great for cats
      > that are as active as cats would be in the wild when hunting 24/7 for
      > food, but, as Deb Zoran states, sedentary house cats, particularly if
      > they have been altered, can't handle the fat content of foods that are
      > not high protein, moderate carbs, *LOW* fat.

      Fortunately my cats (and many other German cats who get "normal" raw food
      with app. 1/3 fat 2/3 proteine in the meat part of the food - but no or
      only very little carb) seem not to know this! ;-)

      A while after I had changed my cats to raw food they reduced the amount of
      food that they eat a little bit. So they each eat about 150 - 200 g food
      (not meat, but the completely prepared food including all supplements and
      water) per day, and they gained some weight due to more muscles (even
      Tonya, who ate her first raw diet when she was already 10 years old), but
      they did not get fat at all.

      I'm always astonished how much fat is in some normal brands of cat food.
      Have you had a look at Felidae (just as an example)?
      Felidae dry food has 32 % raw protein and 20 % raw fat.
      Felidae canned food has 11 % raw protein and 7 % raw fat.
      Wouldn't you give such food to an altered cat normally? Well, my raw diet
      has relatively less fat, though I try to feed meat with as much fat as I
      wouldn't want to eat myself in meat ...

      It's a longer time ago that I read Deb Zoran's articles, so I don't
      remember them precisely. It's only that I know a lot of altered cats on
      raw diet in Germany who get meat with app. 10 % fat. And if you keep in
      mind that meat (/ fish) contains 10 - 30 % proteine, then 10 % fat results
      more or less in about 1/3 fat and 2/3 proteine in the meat - which results
      in app. 50 % of the calories coming from fat and the other 50 % coming
      from proteine.

      Since fat has a lot of positive sides as well (for the digestion, hair and
      skin quality, calorie source that does not produce urea, ...) I would
      always try to start with a diet with 1/3 fat and 2/3 proteine (I don't
      count carb since I only use as much of it as needed as fiber for a good
      digestion). For a cat with kidney problems I would give more fat, for a
      cat with liver problems or a really great tendency to become fat, I would
      reduce the fat part in the food a little.

      Greetings
      Bettina
      http://www.pristine-paws.de
    • Pat
      Hi Bettina; ... From: Bettina Schmolla ... Remember that I am quoting what Deb was stating in a presentation this past
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 28, 2008
        Hi Bettina;

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bettina Schmolla" <bettina.schmolla@...>
        > Fortunately my cats (and many other German cats who get "normal" raw food
        > with app. 1/3 fat 2/3 proteine in the meat part of the food - but no or
        > only very little carb) seem not to know this! ;-)

        Remember that I am quoting what Deb was stating in a presentation this past
        summer at a veterinary conference held here. When I mention altering, (aka
        gonadectomy), I am quoting what she was saying to the vets, (the few that
        turned up to listen to a nutrition related speach), and for me, the equation
        of altering a cat to humans going through stages of life where hormones
        change made sense, just as it appeared to for the rest of the audience.
        There are studies out there, done recently on cats, showing the changes in
        leptin levels with what is usually referred to as "gonadectomy" in the
        abstracts if you are looking for them. Another hormone she didn't have time
        to touch on was ghrelin, for example, which is also receiving a lot of
        attention at present in human RDA circles. Deb's presentation had a whole
        pie chart shaped graphic showing a number of hormones related to
        age/gonadectomy and obesity.

        There are also studies connecting higher serum lipid count with insulin
        resistance, (see below). I wasn't taking Deb's word for it, even though I
        spent a major amount of money to listen to the best resource on feline
        nutrition that will probably ever pass our way.

        > It's a longer time ago that I read Deb Zoran's articles, so I don't
        > remember them precisely.

        The information she was passing along was supported by very recent research,
        so what she is saying now may not match what you remember from the past. I
        was given permission to pass along the outline for her presentation but
        don't remember if I put it in the Files section of the Heart group or not.

        >(I don't
        > count carb since I only use as much of it as needed as fiber for a good
        > digestion).

        We have to watch carb intake as we have a diabetic cat in our midst. As I
        always like to know the science behind statements I looked up some of the
        information on carbohydrate intake that Deb mentioned should be "moderate"
        accompanied by the low fat, and found studies such as the following:

        http://tinyurl.com/6bo75w
        "These data provide evidence that in cats, high dietary fat, but not
        carbohydrate, induces weight gain and a congruent increase in insulin, while
        GX increases sensitivity to weight gain induced by dietary fat."
        http://tinyurl.com/6eyxdj
        "No post-prandial hyperglycaemia was seen in the 10 diabetic cats during a
        2-h period following the ingestion of typical cat foods. "

        These studies confirmed what we have seen in Hamlet's glucose curves with
        his frequent small meals:
        http://tamingthecurve.blogspot.com/

        > For a cat with kidney problems I would give more fat,

        Personally I would like to see the science behind the choices before making
        them for our boys.

        JMHO.........Pat and all the boys.
        http://felinenutritionalnotes.blogspot.com/
        http://petfoodpitfalls.blogspot.com/
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