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Re:Heart Supplements

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  • elfinmyst@aol.com
    Hi Nichole 1. I have given three of my cats these supplements for two years now daily and two have outlived their diagnosis. All three were young kittens when
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 5, 2008
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      Hi Nichole

      1. I have given three of my cats these supplements for two years now daily
      and two have outlived their diagnosis. All three were young kittens when
      started and none have had any adverse effects. I can't say there never would be,
      but in my case, the supplements with the meds have prolonged their lives.


      2. My cats have regular 6 months bloodwork for the HCM and the effect of
      diuretics, but not the supplements.

      3. Co Q is most important in my experience. Taurine is important in DCM as a
      lack can cause this.

      4. I have no honest idea. Taurine and carnitine are just amino acids and any
      extras would be excreted. This is an assumption however. I have no clue for
      the Co Q

      5. I use Cardio S by Vetriscience and have given half daily since the
      kittens were 4 months to about 9 months. Then one daily. It's one pill a day for a
      cat. I'd like an answer to that as well as my boy is reaching 7kg.

      6. Mine get regular cat food with the supplements as well. Co Q has shown a
      lot of promise in human heart disease as well.

      Again, i`m not a biochemist or vet, so can only go on my experience.:) Best
      person to ask is your cardiologist. My vet prescribes my Cardio S and the
      cardiologist knows about it.

      Lyn :)


      _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)






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    • Sharyl
      Nichole, yes taurine and L-Carnitine are found in most cat foods.  And yes most of us with heart kitties have found it beneficial to supplement all three.  I
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 5, 2008
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        Nichole, yes taurine and L-Carnitine are found in most cat foods.  And yes most of us with heart kitties have found it beneficial to supplement all three.  I really don't know what the overdose level is.  The only affect Albert experienced is he felt better and enjoyed another 1 1/2 yrs over what the vets gave him.
        This is what I gave Albert.
        CoQ10 - 30 mg/day
        Taurine - 250 mg/day
        L-Carnitine- 100 mg/day
         
        Sharyl Pequita and Angel Albert
         
        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Questions about supplements. ..

        1. Are there any side effects associated CoEnzyme Q10, L-carnitine, and
        Taurine? (such as damage to organs, GI upset, lethargy, etc.)

        2. Is there any sort of bloodwork that needs to be done to monitor
        levels with using the supplements?

        3. Are all 3 supplements needed?

        4. Can they be overdosed on any of the supplements?

        5. Is the dose figured out by body weight?

        6. Do they still need these supplements despite their food having the
        Taurine and L-carnitine in it?

        Thanks,
        Nichole and Moto

         




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      • Pat
        Hi Nicole, Sharyl, and Group; ... From: Sharyl ... In the beginning we did give carnitine to Pepper until I researched it further and
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 5, 2008
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          Hi Nicole, Sharyl, and Group;

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Sharyl" <clinebay@...>
          >Nichole, yes taurine and L-Carnitine are found in most cat foods. And yes
          >most of us with heart kitties have found it beneficial to supplement all
          >three. I really >don't know what the overdose level is.

          In the beginning we did give carnitine to Pepper until I researched it
          further and found that there are mixed results from studies, depending upon
          the individual heart disease.

          For instance: http://tinyurl.com/3hzdoe
          "It was suggested that the l-carnitine-induced increase in left heart weight
          might partially account for the postponed occurrence of pulmonary
          hypertension in the early stage by elevating cardiac output, which might, in
          turn, lead to the resulting increase in pulmonary pressure. In view of its
          complex effects on cardiopulmonary haemodynamics,l-carnitine supplementation
          may be impractical for reducing PHS"

          Aside from the fact that you don't really know how much carnitine is in a
          specific supplement because they aren't controlled, there seem to be other
          questions such as EFA absorption:
          http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/249/2/E183
          "These findings suggest that the most likely mechanism for increased serum
          carnitine is increased carnitine synthesis by the liver. The changes in
          carnitine metabolism in SHR appear to occur between 5 and 10 wk of age,
          because the carnitine levels in serum and organs were comparable in 5-wk-old
          WKy and SHR. The observed alterations in tissue and serum carnitine levels
          may result in altered fatty acid utilization in SHR."

          There are some very interesting articles out there, and the big concern for
          me was that if high blood pressure was a concern, carnitine seemed to have
          an influence, whereas with HCM there wasn't a concern:
          http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/36/2/215

          but then I am not a doctor, let alone a cardiac specialist, and the end
          choice for us was to back off until we had better science available.

          Does anyone have good scientific information on this?

          Pat and all the boys.
          http://felinenutritionalnotes.blogspot.com/
          http://petfoodpitfalls.blogspot.com/
        • Sue B
          Nicole, I went to a holistic vet who recommended 120mg of CoQ10 daily. Sue & angels Pepper & Gandy with Nicholai, Lola and Isabella
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 5, 2008
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            Nicole,

            I went to a holistic vet who recommended 120mg of CoQ10 daily.


            Sue & angels Pepper & Gandy
            with Nicholai, Lola and Isabella
          • charlotte
            Hello, Our 19 month old Sphynx, John, was diagnosed with HCM on march 24th. He had a borderline echocardiogram 6 months earlier. The vet who did the scan told
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 11, 2009
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              Hello,

              Our 19 month old Sphynx, John, was diagnosed with HCM on march 24th. He had a borderline echocardiogram 6 months earlier. The vet who did the scan told us it was very important to put him on a low salt diet and that she recommended he start a calcium channel blocker. There was another vet at the practice who did the heart scan who is experienced at treating HCM cats and we wanted her to manage John's treatment but she won't consult with us unless our vet refers us as she doesn't want to step on his toes. So that was about 3 weeks ago and we are still waiting for John to start his meds as the specialist vet does not seem to be able to make contact with the head vet at our usual practice. I am getting quite frustrated and will be trying to move things along once normal business resumes after Easter. I would like to get John on meds ASAP then get a referral to the more experienced HCM vet for his ongoing treatment.

              I do not have a report back from the specialist yet so all I know is that his left wall measurement was 6.3mm and she could see just by looking at the image that the heart wall was thickened. I had hoped to have more info by now.

              I have read old threads on this list about diet and have decided to go for quality over sodium levels. I am feeding John Yarrah organic dry food, 75% meat content and .4% sodium level. The lower salt foods I found had grains as the primary ingredient so I was happier using the Yarrah for grazing and Bozita wet cat food at 1.5% to 2%, a grain free tinned food for his main meals. John has been neutered and has put on over half a kilo which is great as he was always a slender cat.

              Can anyone refer me to a source for various supplements or alternative supports that can be useful for cats with heart disease? Looking at old posts, the supplements mentioned often seem to be made with the assumption that the reader knows about the effect/dosage of the supplement so I kind of need a Heart Supplements For Dummies Guide :)

              Thank you

              Charlotte
              DaddyO Sphynx
              www.daddyocats.com

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            • Carol
              hi Charlotte, Boy, you re vets sound like the ones I deal with. I can hardly ever get them to do things for our guys. Go to the files and click on Supplements
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 11, 2009
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                hi Charlotte,

                Boy, you're vets sound like the ones I deal with. I can hardly ever get them to do things for our guys.

                Go to the files and click on "Supplements for heart kitties", and there is some info there about some of the thing that I've given my guys.
                http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/files/

                That should get you started and then others can chime in with more info too.

                hugs,
                Carol and Snowball and the gang
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