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Ragdolls with HCM

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  • jessiesrags
    I have 2 Ragdolls (brothers), 16 months old, who have both been diagnosed with HCM. One, Dexter, is in the final stages. He was given 3-6 months 6 1/2 months
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 27, 2008
      I have 2 Ragdolls (brothers), 16 months old, who have both been
      diagnosed with HCM. One, Dexter, is in the final stages. He was given
      3-6 months 6 1/2 months ago and is currently going through a rough
      patch- the worst so far. The other, Dante, has an enlarged heart but
      it was found soon enough to start meds to treat him and help him live
      a more prolonged life. I'm looking for other people going through (or
      have gone) to exchange advice and help with answers during my many
      moments of panic. So is there anyone out there?

      Jessica
    • Gina Fayne
      Hi Jessica, I am so very sorry to hear about your little boys. I have a Ragdoll, but ironically, I am here because of my moggie, SweetPete. Have you informed
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 27, 2008
        Hi Jessica, I am so very sorry to hear about your little boys. I have a Ragdoll, but ironically, I am here because of my moggie, SweetPete. Have you informed Dante's and Dexter's breeder? Has she had their parents tested and has she pulled them from her breeding program? Are you familiar with the Winn Foundation? They are doing tremendous work on the genetics of HCM in both the Ragdoll and the Maine Coon.
        My boy was recently diagnosed so I am just learning how to manage this awful disease. But there are lots of people on this wonderful board who will be able to help you with information, treatments, supplements and great shoulders to lean or cry on.
        I hope you and your furbabes have a restful evening,
        Gina




        --- On Thu, 8/28/08, jessiesrags <jessbaiera@...> wrote:

        > From: jessiesrags <jessbaiera@...>
        > Subject: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM
        > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 12:08 AM
        > I have 2 Ragdolls (brothers), 16 months old, who have both
        > been
        > diagnosed with HCM. One, Dexter, is in the final stages.
        > He was given
        > 3-6 months 6 1/2 months ago and is currently going through
        > a rough
        > patch- the worst so far. The other, Dante, has an enlarged
        > heart but
        > it was found soon enough to start meds to treat him and
        > help him live
        > a more prolonged life. I'm looking for other people
        > going through (or
        > have gone) to exchange advice and help with answers during
        > my many
        > moments of panic. So is there anyone out there?
        >
        > Jessica
      • Sue B
        Jessica, My girl Pepper was a Maine coon cat. I never wanted to know what her prognosis was so I made it a point never to ask. I didn t want to anticipate
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 27, 2008
          Jessica,

          My girl Pepper was a Maine coon cat. I never wanted to know what her
          prognosis was so I made it a point never to ask. I didn't want to
          anticipate her demise.

          Thanks to this group and all they taught me, my girl lived almost 2-1/2
          years after her correct diagnosis. (She had been misdiagnosed about 6
          months prior).

          After she passed, I asked the cardiologist how long he would have predicted
          she would last. His answer - 2 to 10 months.

          What's important is to support the physical health with good food (meat) and
          supplements. Avoid stress - cats are very sensitive to stress in their
          environment so your stress becomes their stress. Keep them safe, secure &
          warm. I found that she had problems sometimes regulating her body
          temperature. In the summer, she had part of the house with a/c and part
          that didn't. In the winter, she had a heated mat to lie on and spent most
          of her time there.

          I'm not sure how much you already know about the food & supplements, but if
          you don't know, please post back to the group. We'll all give you the
          information we can. Also, please understand that vets have little to no
          education on feline nutrition --- and what little they have is usually
          sponsored by a manufacturer of pet food, so it's biased and not very
          accurate. Vets typically know nothing about supplements. We've had
          trememdous results with them.

          What is going on that Dexter is having a rough time?


          Sue & angel Pepper



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...>
          To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:08 AM
          Subject: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM


          >I have 2 Ragdolls (brothers), 16 months old, who have both been
          > diagnosed with HCM. One, Dexter, is in the final stages. He was given
          > 3-6 months 6 1/2 months ago and is currently going through a rough
          > patch- the worst so far. The other, Dante, has an enlarged heart but
          > it was found soon enough to start meds to treat him and help him live
          > a more prolonged life. I'm looking for other people going through (or
          > have gone) to exchange advice and help with answers during my many
          > moments of panic. So is there anyone out there?
          >
          > Jessica
          >
          >
        • Sue B
          Jessica, If Dexter has fluid outside of his lungs, he should probably be on spironolactone (aka spiro ) since that is excellent at removing fluid outside of
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 28, 2008
            Jessica,

            If Dexter has fluid outside of his lungs, he should probably be on
            spironolactone (aka "spiro") since that is excellent at removing fluid
            outside of the lungs. My cardiologist was hesitant to put Pepper on it but
            once he did, the results were great. If the fluid is milky in color, then
            it's "chyle" which is a byproduct of the lymphatic system. Rutin is great
            for controlling chyle. The dose is 500mg daily orally and it's available in
            most health food and vitamin stores.

            I'd guess that if he's not eating, he's probably full of fluid. That means
            he should see the vet very soon!!!!!!!!!

            Cats need meat and dry cat food is more fillers than anything. Since cats
            don't have the digestive enzymes needed to process carbohydrates, it's not
            good for them to be eating grains or vegetables. Foods that contain those
            are marketed for humans since we know that it's healthy for US to eat those
            things. If you go to http://www.catinfo.org you'll find information on
            nutrition and how to transition your dry-food junkie over to a healthier
            diet of canned (or raw).

            Here's another post regarding nutrition and which foods are superior
            http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/message/31652

            One canned food that I've found to be helpful in transition or when they're
            not eating is the Solid Gold tuna cat food. While it's not really good to
            feed fish, some cats will eat it - and that gets them used to the texture &
            moisture of canned food. It's also good if they're not eating. Another
            suggestion to get him eating again are dried tuna flakes. You can get them
            in many pet supply stores.

            Often pet food companies will change their formulas or suppliers without
            notifying the public (they're not required to). But the animals notice the
            change right away. That may explain why he stopped eating the canned food.

            As for supplements - the most important is CoQ10. That helps improve
            cellular health and is most important for treating heart disease & cancer.
            The normal dose for a cat is 30mg daily. Start with a smaller dose & build
            up. My holistic vet suggested giving 120mg daily. Just note that if you
            stop, you need to decrease the dose gradually or it can cause a rebound
            effect where they will get sick.

            Other supplements -
            l-carnitine (2nd most important), l-lysine and taurine (these 3 are all
            amino acids).
            TMG or DMG (increase oxygenation at the cellular level) - 50mg daily
            Essential fatty acids (EFAs - aka omega oils - help to maintain weight /
            reduce cachexia, decrease clotting)
            Vitamin E (decrease clotting)
            Nattokinase (decrease clotting - most effective supplement for this) - 72mg
            daily
            A good multi-vitamin/mineral supplement such as Tabby Tabs (also sold as
            NuCat)
            A multi-heart supplement such as Heart Discovery (also sold as Cardio
            Strength)
            Pro-biotics (e.g. Jarrow's Petdophilis) to aid digestion
            Bioplasma (is a combination of cell salts to help the body's cells work more
            efficiently) - 1 tablet daily

            There are others too. I'm sure that other people will chime in & to fill in
            the blanks with the dosages. I've used all of the ones listed above - but
            not necessarily all at once. You will need to figure out which ones Dexter
            needs but I suggest starting with the CoQ10 and l-carnitine.


            Sue & angel Pepper



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...>
            To: "Sue B" <susan@...>
            Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:27 AM
            Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM


            My Dexter was bad from the beginning. He started breathing heavily at
            4 months old, and my vet couldn't figure out what was the problem. I
            was unaware of the possiblity of HCM. So the vet and I did some
            research and at 5 months we took an x-ray and it was appalling. 2
            weeks later, he was with a cardiologist and was diagnosed. He was so
            bad at that point there wasn't much we could do. His chest was drained
            and he was put on some medications (lasix, benezipril, diltiazem, and
            plavix -which has been switched to baby asprin every 4 days b/c he was
            getting sick from it). At this point, Dante was cleared as fine. Last
            month at Dante's check up the x-ray showed his heart had enlarged
            slightly and he was immediately put on the same meds as Dexter, minus
            the lasix since there was no fluid build up.

            Dante is still fully active, playful, and eating everything in sight.
            Dexter goes through good and bad times. Some were bad enough for me to
            contemplate other options, but he always bounced bad to his happy self
            within 2-3 days. This time is definitely worse than those times. He's
            lethargic, vomiting bile, refuses 90% of my petting and attention,
            hasn't eaten in 2 days, sits in front of the water bowl wanting to
            drink but never touches it, and i know by the way he looks at me like
            he's in pain. The vet also gave me a medication to ease the vomiting
            and he's off everything else except the diltiazem and that.

            I do as much as I found I can do, they both get wet (pet promise) and
            dry (royal cannin) food although Dexter refuses his wet food as of 2
            months ago- I did manage to get some Fancy Feast down him regularly
            after trying several brands. I also manage to get him to eat some
            fresh chicken I cook up but that's only occasionally as well. I have
            noticed his changes in body temperature sometimes his ears are
            freezing other times they're so hot to the touch. I try my best to
            warm him and cool him, when he's hot I boost the a/c and he likes to
            lay on the vents, when he's cold we have a heated blanket or he likes
            to wedge himself between the covers of the bed. He also only weights
            9lbs compared to his smaller (length) brother who is almost 12 now.
            He's so thin and his fur is so unhealthy and brittle which causes tons
            of mats. His whiskers are also brittle you can always tell which side
            he was laying on b/c his whiskers don't just bounce back into place.

            I don't know anything about supplements, found some things online
            about it but they never said how much, when, where to get them, etc.
            So any advice is greatly appreciated.
          • jessiesrags
            Thank you so much for the information. The vet actually just drained his chest cavity 3 weeks ago. It wasn t milky at all it was more of a watery dried blood
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 28, 2008
              Thank you so much for the information.

              The vet actually just drained his chest cavity 3 weeks ago. It wasn't
              milky at all it was more of a watery dried blood color. He's tried to
              eat but just ends up vomiting it up a few minutes later, that was 2
              days ago. He just threw up foam so he must have had a drink. Good news
              is he is more active today, walking around, taking more attention. So
              hopefully he's pulling through this rough patch.

              Neither of my cats will eat fish, not even flavored treats or the tuna
              flakes. I can get Dexter to eat some canned tuna occasionally but it's
              only a nibble. I have a DSH female, Cocoa, who will only eat dry food.
              She won't even eat fresh chicken. She's the reason why they have a
              mixed diet. Could you recommend a good wet food to switch them too?

              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Sue B <susan@...> wrote:
              >
              > Jessica,
              >
              > If Dexter has fluid outside of his lungs, he should probably be on
              > spironolactone (aka "spiro") since that is excellent at removing fluid
              > outside of the lungs. My cardiologist was hesitant to put Pepper on
              it but
              > once he did, the results were great. If the fluid is milky in
              color, then
              > it's "chyle" which is a byproduct of the lymphatic system. Rutin is
              great
              > for controlling chyle. The dose is 500mg daily orally and it's
              available in
              > most health food and vitamin stores.
              >
              > I'd guess that if he's not eating, he's probably full of fluid.
              That means
              > he should see the vet very soon!!!!!!!!!
              >
              > Cats need meat and dry cat food is more fillers than anything.
              Since cats
              > don't have the digestive enzymes needed to process carbohydrates,
              it's not
              > good for them to be eating grains or vegetables. Foods that contain
              those
              > are marketed for humans since we know that it's healthy for US to
              eat those
              > things. If you go to http://www.catinfo.org you'll find information on
              > nutrition and how to transition your dry-food junkie over to a
              healthier
              > diet of canned (or raw).
              >
              > Here's another post regarding nutrition and which foods are superior
              > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/message/31652
              >
              > One canned food that I've found to be helpful in transition or when
              they're
              > not eating is the Solid Gold tuna cat food. While it's not really
              good to
              > feed fish, some cats will eat it - and that gets them used to the
              texture &
              > moisture of canned food. It's also good if they're not eating.
              Another
              > suggestion to get him eating again are dried tuna flakes. You can
              get them
              > in many pet supply stores.
              >
              > Often pet food companies will change their formulas or suppliers
              without
              > notifying the public (they're not required to). But the animals
              notice the
              > change right away. That may explain why he stopped eating the
              canned food.
              >
              > As for supplements - the most important is CoQ10. That helps improve
              > cellular health and is most important for treating heart disease &
              cancer.
              > The normal dose for a cat is 30mg daily. Start with a smaller dose
              & build
              > up. My holistic vet suggested giving 120mg daily. Just note that
              if you
              > stop, you need to decrease the dose gradually or it can cause a rebound
              > effect where they will get sick.
              >
              > Other supplements -
              > l-carnitine (2nd most important), l-lysine and taurine (these 3 are all
              > amino acids).
              > TMG or DMG (increase oxygenation at the cellular level) - 50mg daily
              > Essential fatty acids (EFAs - aka omega oils - help to maintain
              weight /
              > reduce cachexia, decrease clotting)
              > Vitamin E (decrease clotting)
              > Nattokinase (decrease clotting - most effective supplement for this)
              - 72mg
              > daily
              > A good multi-vitamin/mineral supplement such as Tabby Tabs (also
              sold as
              > NuCat)
              > A multi-heart supplement such as Heart Discovery (also sold as Cardio
              > Strength)
              > Pro-biotics (e.g. Jarrow's Petdophilis) to aid digestion
              > Bioplasma (is a combination of cell salts to help the body's cells
              work more
              > efficiently) - 1 tablet daily
              >
              > There are others too. I'm sure that other people will chime in & to
              fill in
              > the blanks with the dosages. I've used all of the ones listed above
              - but
              > not necessarily all at once. You will need to figure out which ones
              Dexter
              > needs but I suggest starting with the CoQ10 and l-carnitine.
              >
              >
              > Sue & angel Pepper
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...>
              > To: "Sue B" <susan@...>
              > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:27 AM
              > Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM
              >
              >
              > My Dexter was bad from the beginning. He started breathing heavily at
              > 4 months old, and my vet couldn't figure out what was the problem. I
              > was unaware of the possiblity of HCM. So the vet and I did some
              > research and at 5 months we took an x-ray and it was appalling. 2
              > weeks later, he was with a cardiologist and was diagnosed. He was so
              > bad at that point there wasn't much we could do. His chest was drained
              > and he was put on some medications (lasix, benezipril, diltiazem, and
              > plavix -which has been switched to baby asprin every 4 days b/c he was
              > getting sick from it). At this point, Dante was cleared as fine. Last
              > month at Dante's check up the x-ray showed his heart had enlarged
              > slightly and he was immediately put on the same meds as Dexter, minus
              > the lasix since there was no fluid build up.
              >
              > Dante is still fully active, playful, and eating everything in sight.
              > Dexter goes through good and bad times. Some were bad enough for me to
              > contemplate other options, but he always bounced bad to his happy self
              > within 2-3 days. This time is definitely worse than those times. He's
              > lethargic, vomiting bile, refuses 90% of my petting and attention,
              > hasn't eaten in 2 days, sits in front of the water bowl wanting to
              > drink but never touches it, and i know by the way he looks at me like
              > he's in pain. The vet also gave me a medication to ease the vomiting
              > and he's off everything else except the diltiazem and that.
              >
              > I do as much as I found I can do, they both get wet (pet promise) and
              > dry (royal cannin) food although Dexter refuses his wet food as of 2
              > months ago- I did manage to get some Fancy Feast down him regularly
              > after trying several brands. I also manage to get him to eat some
              > fresh chicken I cook up but that's only occasionally as well. I have
              > noticed his changes in body temperature sometimes his ears are
              > freezing other times they're so hot to the touch. I try my best to
              > warm him and cool him, when he's hot I boost the a/c and he likes to
              > lay on the vents, when he's cold we have a heated blanket or he likes
              > to wedge himself between the covers of the bed. He also only weights
              > 9lbs compared to his smaller (length) brother who is almost 12 now.
              > He's so thin and his fur is so unhealthy and brittle which causes tons
              > of mats. His whiskers are also brittle you can always tell which side
              > he was laying on b/c his whiskers don't just bounce back into place.
              >
              > I don't know anything about supplements, found some things online
              > about it but they never said how much, when, where to get them, etc.
              > So any advice is greatly appreciated.
              >
            • elfinmyst@aol.com
              Hi I have two Selkirks who have just turned 2 and both have serious heart problems. Maxi has HOCM and has atenolol which is stabilising him, and Milli has a
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 28, 2008
                Hi

                I have two Selkirks who have just turned 2 and both have serious heart
                problems. Maxi has HOCM and has atenolol which is stabilising him, and Milli has a
                cushion defect (holes in her heart) and is very poorly, but we are delighted
                she reached her second birthday. May she have many more! Milli had a
                vaccination tumour about a year ago and after traumatic surgery, a wonderful
                veterinary team (and a lot of prayers here) she recovered.

                My Trixi was diagnosed with HCM at 12 weeks of age. She was given two months
                to live and she just celebrated her second birthday on 5th August. She
                didn't listen to her prognosis!! She takes atenolol, fortekor, spiro, lasix and a
                potassium supplement and these are hard on her little body, but are keeping
                her going

                All three take Cardiostrength (we call it Cardio S in the UK) and this helps
                too. So there is always hope and every day is a blessing.

                Lyn

                www.furkids-uk.com






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Sue B
                Jessie, It s important that he eat something, so right now it s not so important what he eats as much as that he eats something. Once cats stop eating, it can
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 28, 2008
                  Jessie,

                  It's important that he eat something, so right now it's not so important
                  what he eats as much as that he eats something. Once cats stop eating, it
                  can be difficult to get them started again.

                  You may want to join the Feline Assisted Feeding Yahoo group.

                  As for foods, this post has a list of the better brands. Pick one of them &
                  decide which flavor to feed. I like the Wellness since you can buy the
                  12-oz cans and it's less expensive.
                  http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/message/31652
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...>
                  To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:56 PM
                  Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM


                  > Thank you so much for the information.
                  >
                  > The vet actually just drained his chest cavity 3 weeks ago. It wasn't
                  > milky at all it was more of a watery dried blood color. He's tried to
                  > eat but just ends up vomiting it up a few minutes later, that was 2
                  > days ago. He just threw up foam so he must have had a drink. Good news
                  > is he is more active today, walking around, taking more attention. So
                  > hopefully he's pulling through this rough patch.
                  >
                  > Neither of my cats will eat fish, not even flavored treats or the tuna
                  > flakes. I can get Dexter to eat some canned tuna occasionally but it's
                  > only a nibble. I have a DSH female, Cocoa, who will only eat dry food.
                  > She won't even eat fresh chicken. She's the reason why they have a
                  > mixed diet. Could you recommend a good wet food to switch them too?
                  >
                  > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Sue B <susan@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Jessica,
                  >>
                  >> If Dexter has fluid outside of his lungs, he should probably be on
                  >> spironolactone (aka "spiro") since that is excellent at removing fluid
                  >> outside of the lungs. My cardiologist was hesitant to put Pepper on
                  > it but
                  >> once he did, the results were great. If the fluid is milky in
                  > color, then
                  >> it's "chyle" which is a byproduct of the lymphatic system. Rutin is
                  > great
                  >> for controlling chyle. The dose is 500mg daily orally and it's
                  > available in
                  >> most health food and vitamin stores.
                  >>
                  >> I'd guess that if he's not eating, he's probably full of fluid.
                  > That means
                  >> he should see the vet very soon!!!!!!!!!
                  >>
                  >> Cats need meat and dry cat food is more fillers than anything.
                  > Since cats
                  >> don't have the digestive enzymes needed to process carbohydrates,
                  > it's not
                  >> good for them to be eating grains or vegetables. Foods that contain
                  > those
                  >> are marketed for humans since we know that it's healthy for US to
                  > eat those
                  >> things. If you go to http://www.catinfo.org you'll find information on
                  >> nutrition and how to transition your dry-food junkie over to a
                  > healthier
                  >> diet of canned (or raw).
                  >>
                  >> Here's another post regarding nutrition and which foods are superior
                  >> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/message/31652
                  >>
                  >> One canned food that I've found to be helpful in transition or when
                  > they're
                  >> not eating is the Solid Gold tuna cat food. While it's not really
                  > good to
                  >> feed fish, some cats will eat it - and that gets them used to the
                  > texture &
                  >> moisture of canned food. It's also good if they're not eating.
                  > Another
                  >> suggestion to get him eating again are dried tuna flakes. You can
                  > get them
                  >> in many pet supply stores.
                  >>
                  >> Often pet food companies will change their formulas or suppliers
                  > without
                  >> notifying the public (they're not required to). But the animals
                  > notice the
                  >> change right away. That may explain why he stopped eating the
                  > canned food.
                  >>
                  >> As for supplements - the most important is CoQ10. That helps improve
                  >> cellular health and is most important for treating heart disease &
                  > cancer.
                  >> The normal dose for a cat is 30mg daily. Start with a smaller dose
                  > & build
                  >> up. My holistic vet suggested giving 120mg daily. Just note that
                  > if you
                  >> stop, you need to decrease the dose gradually or it can cause a rebound
                  >> effect where they will get sick.
                  >>
                  >> Other supplements -
                  >> l-carnitine (2nd most important), l-lysine and taurine (these 3 are all
                  >> amino acids).
                  >> TMG or DMG (increase oxygenation at the cellular level) - 50mg daily
                  >> Essential fatty acids (EFAs - aka omega oils - help to maintain
                  > weight /
                  >> reduce cachexia, decrease clotting)
                  >> Vitamin E (decrease clotting)
                  >> Nattokinase (decrease clotting - most effective supplement for this)
                  > - 72mg
                  >> daily
                  >> A good multi-vitamin/mineral supplement such as Tabby Tabs (also
                  > sold as
                  >> NuCat)
                  >> A multi-heart supplement such as Heart Discovery (also sold as Cardio
                  >> Strength)
                  >> Pro-biotics (e.g. Jarrow's Petdophilis) to aid digestion
                  >> Bioplasma (is a combination of cell salts to help the body's cells
                  > work more
                  >> efficiently) - 1 tablet daily
                  >>
                  >> There are others too. I'm sure that other people will chime in & to
                  > fill in
                  >> the blanks with the dosages. I've used all of the ones listed above
                  > - but
                  >> not necessarily all at once. You will need to figure out which ones
                  > Dexter
                  >> needs but I suggest starting with the CoQ10 and l-carnitine.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Sue & angel Pepper
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                  >> From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...>
                  >> To: "Sue B" <susan@...>
                  >> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:27 AM
                  >> Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> My Dexter was bad from the beginning. He started breathing heavily at
                  >> 4 months old, and my vet couldn't figure out what was the problem. I
                  >> was unaware of the possiblity of HCM. So the vet and I did some
                  >> research and at 5 months we took an x-ray and it was appalling. 2
                  >> weeks later, he was with a cardiologist and was diagnosed. He was so
                  >> bad at that point there wasn't much we could do. His chest was drained
                  >> and he was put on some medications (lasix, benezipril, diltiazem, and
                  >> plavix -which has been switched to baby asprin every 4 days b/c he was
                  >> getting sick from it). At this point, Dante was cleared as fine. Last
                  >> month at Dante's check up the x-ray showed his heart had enlarged
                  >> slightly and he was immediately put on the same meds as Dexter, minus
                  >> the lasix since there was no fluid build up.
                  >>
                  >> Dante is still fully active, playful, and eating everything in sight.
                  >> Dexter goes through good and bad times. Some were bad enough for me to
                  >> contemplate other options, but he always bounced bad to his happy self
                  >> within 2-3 days. This time is definitely worse than those times. He's
                  >> lethargic, vomiting bile, refuses 90% of my petting and attention,
                  >> hasn't eaten in 2 days, sits in front of the water bowl wanting to
                  >> drink but never touches it, and i know by the way he looks at me like
                  >> he's in pain. The vet also gave me a medication to ease the vomiting
                  >> and he's off everything else except the diltiazem and that.
                  >>
                  >> I do as much as I found I can do, they both get wet (pet promise) and
                  >> dry (royal cannin) food although Dexter refuses his wet food as of 2
                  >> months ago- I did manage to get some Fancy Feast down him regularly
                  >> after trying several brands. I also manage to get him to eat some
                  >> fresh chicken I cook up but that's only occasionally as well. I have
                  >> noticed his changes in body temperature sometimes his ears are
                  >> freezing other times they're so hot to the touch. I try my best to
                  >> warm him and cool him, when he's hot I boost the a/c and he likes to
                  >> lay on the vents, when he's cold we have a heated blanket or he likes
                  >> to wedge himself between the covers of the bed. He also only weights
                  >> 9lbs compared to his smaller (length) brother who is almost 12 now.
                  >> He's so thin and his fur is so unhealthy and brittle which causes tons
                  >> of mats. His whiskers are also brittle you can always tell which side
                  >> he was laying on b/c his whiskers don't just bounce back into place.
                  >>
                  >> I don't know anything about supplements, found some things online
                  >> about it but they never said how much, when, where to get them, etc.
                  >> So any advice is greatly appreciated.
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                  > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                  > feline-heart@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • lorkatz2004
                  ... Try tempting them to eat with gerber baby food meat...........my cats love it. Cathy ... important ... eating, it ... of them & ... fluid ... information
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 29, 2008
                    ---

                    Try tempting them to eat with gerber baby food meat...........my cats
                    love it.

                    Cathy




                    In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Sue B <susan@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Jessie,
                    >
                    > It's important that he eat something, so right now it's not so
                    important
                    > what he eats as much as that he eats something. Once cats stop
                    eating, it
                    > can be difficult to get them started again.
                    >
                    > You may want to join the Feline Assisted Feeding Yahoo group.
                    >
                    > As for foods, this post has a list of the better brands. Pick one
                    of them &
                    > decide which flavor to feed. I like the Wellness since you can buy the
                    > 12-oz cans and it's less expensive.
                    > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/message/31652
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...>
                    > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:56 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM
                    >
                    >
                    > > Thank you so much for the information.
                    > >
                    > > The vet actually just drained his chest cavity 3 weeks ago. It wasn't
                    > > milky at all it was more of a watery dried blood color. He's tried to
                    > > eat but just ends up vomiting it up a few minutes later, that was 2
                    > > days ago. He just threw up foam so he must have had a drink. Good news
                    > > is he is more active today, walking around, taking more attention. So
                    > > hopefully he's pulling through this rough patch.
                    > >
                    > > Neither of my cats will eat fish, not even flavored treats or the tuna
                    > > flakes. I can get Dexter to eat some canned tuna occasionally but it's
                    > > only a nibble. I have a DSH female, Cocoa, who will only eat dry food.
                    > > She won't even eat fresh chicken. She's the reason why they have a
                    > > mixed diet. Could you recommend a good wet food to switch them too?
                    > >
                    > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Sue B <susan@> wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> Jessica,
                    > >>
                    > >> If Dexter has fluid outside of his lungs, he should probably be on
                    > >> spironolactone (aka "spiro") since that is excellent at removing
                    fluid
                    > >> outside of the lungs. My cardiologist was hesitant to put Pepper on
                    > > it but
                    > >> once he did, the results were great. If the fluid is milky in
                    > > color, then
                    > >> it's "chyle" which is a byproduct of the lymphatic system. Rutin is
                    > > great
                    > >> for controlling chyle. The dose is 500mg daily orally and it's
                    > > available in
                    > >> most health food and vitamin stores.
                    > >>
                    > >> I'd guess that if he's not eating, he's probably full of fluid.
                    > > That means
                    > >> he should see the vet very soon!!!!!!!!!
                    > >>
                    > >> Cats need meat and dry cat food is more fillers than anything.
                    > > Since cats
                    > >> don't have the digestive enzymes needed to process carbohydrates,
                    > > it's not
                    > >> good for them to be eating grains or vegetables. Foods that contain
                    > > those
                    > >> are marketed for humans since we know that it's healthy for US to
                    > > eat those
                    > >> things. If you go to http://www.catinfo.org you'll find
                    information on
                    > >> nutrition and how to transition your dry-food junkie over to a
                    > > healthier
                    > >> diet of canned (or raw).
                    > >>
                    > >> Here's another post regarding nutrition and which foods are superior
                    > >> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/message/31652
                    > >>
                    > >> One canned food that I've found to be helpful in transition or when
                    > > they're
                    > >> not eating is the Solid Gold tuna cat food. While it's not really
                    > > good to
                    > >> feed fish, some cats will eat it - and that gets them used to the
                    > > texture &
                    > >> moisture of canned food. It's also good if they're not eating.
                    > > Another
                    > >> suggestion to get him eating again are dried tuna flakes. You can
                    > > get them
                    > >> in many pet supply stores.
                    > >>
                    > >> Often pet food companies will change their formulas or suppliers
                    > > without
                    > >> notifying the public (they're not required to). But the animals
                    > > notice the
                    > >> change right away. That may explain why he stopped eating the
                    > > canned food.
                    > >>
                    > >> As for supplements - the most important is CoQ10. That helps improve
                    > >> cellular health and is most important for treating heart disease &
                    > > cancer.
                    > >> The normal dose for a cat is 30mg daily. Start with a smaller dose
                    > > & build
                    > >> up. My holistic vet suggested giving 120mg daily. Just note that
                    > > if you
                    > >> stop, you need to decrease the dose gradually or it can cause a
                    rebound
                    > >> effect where they will get sick.
                    > >>
                    > >> Other supplements -
                    > >> l-carnitine (2nd most important), l-lysine and taurine (these 3
                    are all
                    > >> amino acids).
                    > >> TMG or DMG (increase oxygenation at the cellular level) - 50mg daily
                    > >> Essential fatty acids (EFAs - aka omega oils - help to maintain
                    > > weight /
                    > >> reduce cachexia, decrease clotting)
                    > >> Vitamin E (decrease clotting)
                    > >> Nattokinase (decrease clotting - most effective supplement for this)
                    > > - 72mg
                    > >> daily
                    > >> A good multi-vitamin/mineral supplement such as Tabby Tabs (also
                    > > sold as
                    > >> NuCat)
                    > >> A multi-heart supplement such as Heart Discovery (also sold as Cardio
                    > >> Strength)
                    > >> Pro-biotics (e.g. Jarrow's Petdophilis) to aid digestion
                    > >> Bioplasma (is a combination of cell salts to help the body's cells
                    > > work more
                    > >> efficiently) - 1 tablet daily
                    > >>
                    > >> There are others too. I'm sure that other people will chime in & to
                    > > fill in
                    > >> the blanks with the dosages. I've used all of the ones listed above
                    > > - but
                    > >> not necessarily all at once. You will need to figure out which ones
                    > > Dexter
                    > >> needs but I suggest starting with the CoQ10 and l-carnitine.
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> Sue & angel Pepper
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> ----- Original Message -----
                    > >> From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@>
                    > >> To: "Sue B" <susan@>
                    > >> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:27 AM
                    > >> Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> My Dexter was bad from the beginning. He started breathing heavily at
                    > >> 4 months old, and my vet couldn't figure out what was the problem. I
                    > >> was unaware of the possiblity of HCM. So the vet and I did some
                    > >> research and at 5 months we took an x-ray and it was appalling. 2
                    > >> weeks later, he was with a cardiologist and was diagnosed. He was so
                    > >> bad at that point there wasn't much we could do. His chest was
                    drained
                    > >> and he was put on some medications (lasix, benezipril, diltiazem, and
                    > >> plavix -which has been switched to baby asprin every 4 days b/c
                    he was
                    > >> getting sick from it). At this point, Dante was cleared as fine. Last
                    > >> month at Dante's check up the x-ray showed his heart had enlarged
                    > >> slightly and he was immediately put on the same meds as Dexter, minus
                    > >> the lasix since there was no fluid build up.
                    > >>
                    > >> Dante is still fully active, playful, and eating everything in sight.
                    > >> Dexter goes through good and bad times. Some were bad enough for
                    me to
                    > >> contemplate other options, but he always bounced bad to his happy
                    self
                    > >> within 2-3 days. This time is definitely worse than those times.
                    He's
                    > >> lethargic, vomiting bile, refuses 90% of my petting and attention,
                    > >> hasn't eaten in 2 days, sits in front of the water bowl wanting to
                    > >> drink but never touches it, and i know by the way he looks at me like
                    > >> he's in pain. The vet also gave me a medication to ease the vomiting
                    > >> and he's off everything else except the diltiazem and that.
                    > >>
                    > >> I do as much as I found I can do, they both get wet (pet promise) and
                    > >> dry (royal cannin) food although Dexter refuses his wet food as of 2
                    > >> months ago- I did manage to get some Fancy Feast down him regularly
                    > >> after trying several brands. I also manage to get him to eat some
                    > >> fresh chicken I cook up but that's only occasionally as well. I have
                    > >> noticed his changes in body temperature sometimes his ears are
                    > >> freezing other times they're so hot to the touch. I try my best to
                    > >> warm him and cool him, when he's hot I boost the a/c and he likes to
                    > >> lay on the vents, when he's cold we have a heated blanket or he likes
                    > >> to wedge himself between the covers of the bed. He also only weights
                    > >> 9lbs compared to his smaller (length) brother who is almost 12 now.
                    > >> He's so thin and his fur is so unhealthy and brittle which causes
                    tons
                    > >> of mats. His whiskers are also brittle you can always tell which side
                    > >> he was laying on b/c his whiskers don't just bounce back into place.
                    > >>
                    > >> I don't know anything about supplements, found some things online
                    > >> about it but they never said how much, when, where to get them, etc.
                    > >> So any advice is greatly appreciated.
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your
                    reply
                    > > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                    > > feline-heart@...! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • jessiesrags
                    I ve been trying baby food for the past day, couldn t get any of it down him. Tuna didn t work, neither did chicken or lunchmeat. The vet put him on centrine
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 29, 2008
                      I've been trying baby food for the past day, couldn't get any of it
                      down him. Tuna didn't work, neither did chicken or lunchmeat. The vet
                      put him on centrine which stopped most of the vomiting, he was
                      throwing up a little the past 2 mornings- just clear liquid, so at
                      least I know he is drinking when I'm not looking. Otherwise there
                      hasn't been a change in his behavior, still just sitting in a daze,
                      black eyes, inner eyelids half closed, not asleep but not very
                      responsive either. But at least he stopped vomiting and is starting to
                      drink.

                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "lorkatz2004" <cbower@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > ---
                      >
                      > Try tempting them to eat with gerber baby food meat...........my cats
                      > love it.
                      >
                      > Cathy
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Sue B <susan@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Jessie,
                      > >
                      > > It's important that he eat something, so right now it's not so
                      > important
                      > > what he eats as much as that he eats something. Once cats stop
                      > eating, it
                      > > can be difficult to get them started again.
                      > >
                      > > You may want to join the Feline Assisted Feeding Yahoo group.
                      > >
                      > > As for foods, this post has a list of the better brands. Pick one
                      > of them &
                      > > decide which flavor to feed. I like the Wellness since you can
                      buy the
                      > > 12-oz cans and it's less expensive.
                      > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/message/31652
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@>
                      > > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:56 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > Thank you so much for the information.
                      > > >
                      > > > The vet actually just drained his chest cavity 3 weeks ago. It
                      wasn't
                      > > > milky at all it was more of a watery dried blood color. He's
                      tried to
                      > > > eat but just ends up vomiting it up a few minutes later, that was 2
                      > > > days ago. He just threw up foam so he must have had a drink.
                      Good news
                      > > > is he is more active today, walking around, taking more
                      attention. So
                      > > > hopefully he's pulling through this rough patch.
                      > > >
                      > > > Neither of my cats will eat fish, not even flavored treats or
                      the tuna
                      > > > flakes. I can get Dexter to eat some canned tuna occasionally
                      but it's
                      > > > only a nibble. I have a DSH female, Cocoa, who will only eat dry
                      food.
                      > > > She won't even eat fresh chicken. She's the reason why they have a
                      > > > mixed diet. Could you recommend a good wet food to switch them too?
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Sue B <susan@> wrote:
                      > > >>
                      > > >> Jessica,
                      > > >>
                      > > >> If Dexter has fluid outside of his lungs, he should probably be on
                      > > >> spironolactone (aka "spiro") since that is excellent at removing
                      > fluid
                      > > >> outside of the lungs. My cardiologist was hesitant to put
                      Pepper on
                      > > > it but
                      > > >> once he did, the results were great. If the fluid is milky in
                      > > > color, then
                      > > >> it's "chyle" which is a byproduct of the lymphatic system.
                      Rutin is
                      > > > great
                      > > >> for controlling chyle. The dose is 500mg daily orally and it's
                      > > > available in
                      > > >> most health food and vitamin stores.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> I'd guess that if he's not eating, he's probably full of fluid.
                      > > > That means
                      > > >> he should see the vet very soon!!!!!!!!!
                      > > >>
                      > > >> Cats need meat and dry cat food is more fillers than anything.
                      > > > Since cats
                      > > >> don't have the digestive enzymes needed to process carbohydrates,
                      > > > it's not
                      > > >> good for them to be eating grains or vegetables. Foods that
                      contain
                      > > > those
                      > > >> are marketed for humans since we know that it's healthy for US to
                      > > > eat those
                      > > >> things. If you go to http://www.catinfo.org you'll find
                      > information on
                      > > >> nutrition and how to transition your dry-food junkie over to a
                      > > > healthier
                      > > >> diet of canned (or raw).
                      > > >>
                      > > >> Here's another post regarding nutrition and which foods are
                      superior
                      > > >> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/message/31652
                      > > >>
                      > > >> One canned food that I've found to be helpful in transition or when
                      > > > they're
                      > > >> not eating is the Solid Gold tuna cat food. While it's not really
                      > > > good to
                      > > >> feed fish, some cats will eat it - and that gets them used to the
                      > > > texture &
                      > > >> moisture of canned food. It's also good if they're not eating.
                      > > > Another
                      > > >> suggestion to get him eating again are dried tuna flakes. You can
                      > > > get them
                      > > >> in many pet supply stores.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> Often pet food companies will change their formulas or suppliers
                      > > > without
                      > > >> notifying the public (they're not required to). But the animals
                      > > > notice the
                      > > >> change right away. That may explain why he stopped eating the
                      > > > canned food.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> As for supplements - the most important is CoQ10. That helps
                      improve
                      > > >> cellular health and is most important for treating heart disease &
                      > > > cancer.
                      > > >> The normal dose for a cat is 30mg daily. Start with a smaller dose
                      > > > & build
                      > > >> up. My holistic vet suggested giving 120mg daily. Just note that
                      > > > if you
                      > > >> stop, you need to decrease the dose gradually or it can cause a
                      > rebound
                      > > >> effect where they will get sick.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> Other supplements -
                      > > >> l-carnitine (2nd most important), l-lysine and taurine (these 3
                      > are all
                      > > >> amino acids).
                      > > >> TMG or DMG (increase oxygenation at the cellular level) - 50mg
                      daily
                      > > >> Essential fatty acids (EFAs - aka omega oils - help to maintain
                      > > > weight /
                      > > >> reduce cachexia, decrease clotting)
                      > > >> Vitamin E (decrease clotting)
                      > > >> Nattokinase (decrease clotting - most effective supplement for
                      this)
                      > > > - 72mg
                      > > >> daily
                      > > >> A good multi-vitamin/mineral supplement such as Tabby Tabs (also
                      > > > sold as
                      > > >> NuCat)
                      > > >> A multi-heart supplement such as Heart Discovery (also sold as
                      Cardio
                      > > >> Strength)
                      > > >> Pro-biotics (e.g. Jarrow's Petdophilis) to aid digestion
                      > > >> Bioplasma (is a combination of cell salts to help the body's cells
                      > > > work more
                      > > >> efficiently) - 1 tablet daily
                      > > >>
                      > > >> There are others too. I'm sure that other people will chime in
                      & to
                      > > > fill in
                      > > >> the blanks with the dosages. I've used all of the ones listed
                      above
                      > > > - but
                      > > >> not necessarily all at once. You will need to figure out which
                      ones
                      > > > Dexter
                      > > >> needs but I suggest starting with the CoQ10 and l-carnitine.
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >> Sue & angel Pepper
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >> ----- Original Message -----
                      > > >> From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@>
                      > > >> To: "Sue B" <susan@>
                      > > >> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:27 AM
                      > > >> Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >> My Dexter was bad from the beginning. He started breathing
                      heavily at
                      > > >> 4 months old, and my vet couldn't figure out what was the
                      problem. I
                      > > >> was unaware of the possiblity of HCM. So the vet and I did some
                      > > >> research and at 5 months we took an x-ray and it was appalling. 2
                      > > >> weeks later, he was with a cardiologist and was diagnosed. He
                      was so
                      > > >> bad at that point there wasn't much we could do. His chest was
                      > drained
                      > > >> and he was put on some medications (lasix, benezipril,
                      diltiazem, and
                      > > >> plavix -which has been switched to baby asprin every 4 days b/c
                      > he was
                      > > >> getting sick from it). At this point, Dante was cleared as
                      fine. Last
                      > > >> month at Dante's check up the x-ray showed his heart had enlarged
                      > > >> slightly and he was immediately put on the same meds as Dexter,
                      minus
                      > > >> the lasix since there was no fluid build up.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> Dante is still fully active, playful, and eating everything in
                      sight.
                      > > >> Dexter goes through good and bad times. Some were bad enough for
                      > me to
                      > > >> contemplate other options, but he always bounced bad to his happy
                      > self
                      > > >> within 2-3 days. This time is definitely worse than those times.
                      > He's
                      > > >> lethargic, vomiting bile, refuses 90% of my petting and attention,
                      > > >> hasn't eaten in 2 days, sits in front of the water bowl wanting to
                      > > >> drink but never touches it, and i know by the way he looks at
                      me like
                      > > >> he's in pain. The vet also gave me a medication to ease the
                      vomiting
                      > > >> and he's off everything else except the diltiazem and that.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> I do as much as I found I can do, they both get wet (pet
                      promise) and
                      > > >> dry (royal cannin) food although Dexter refuses his wet food as
                      of 2
                      > > >> months ago- I did manage to get some Fancy Feast down him regularly
                      > > >> after trying several brands. I also manage to get him to eat some
                      > > >> fresh chicken I cook up but that's only occasionally as well. I
                      have
                      > > >> noticed his changes in body temperature sometimes his ears are
                      > > >> freezing other times they're so hot to the touch. I try my best to
                      > > >> warm him and cool him, when he's hot I boost the a/c and he
                      likes to
                      > > >> lay on the vents, when he's cold we have a heated blanket or he
                      likes
                      > > >> to wedge himself between the covers of the bed. He also only
                      weights
                      > > >> 9lbs compared to his smaller (length) brother who is almost 12 now.
                      > > >> He's so thin and his fur is so unhealthy and brittle which causes
                      > tons
                      > > >> of mats. His whiskers are also brittle you can always tell
                      which side
                      > > >> he was laying on b/c his whiskers don't just bounce back into
                      place.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> I don't know anything about supplements, found some things online
                      > > >> about it but they never said how much, when, where to get them,
                      etc.
                      > > >> So any advice is greatly appreciated.
                      > > >>
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > >
                      > > > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your
                      > reply
                      > > > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                      > > > feline-heart@! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Gina Fayne
                      I have very good luck with Royal Canin Baby Cat #34 and Kitten #34.  The kibble is tiny in the Baby Cat and very small in the Kitten variety. It doesn t take
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 30, 2008
                        I have very good luck with Royal Canin Baby Cat #34 and Kitten #34.  The kibble is tiny in the Baby Cat and very small in the Kitten variety. It doesn't take a lot of energy to get down.  Also the aroma is strong. My SweetPete has a hyperactive thyroid along with the HCM, so getting him to eat is not the problem, but finding something that will help him hold his weight is.  This combination seens nutritious to do the job.
                        Hope your babies have a good day,
                        Gina
                        --- On Sat, 8/30/08, jessiesrags <jessbaiera@...> wrote:

                        From: jessiesrags <jessbaiera@...>
                        Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM
                        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 1:27 AM






                        I've been trying baby food for the past day, couldn't get any of it
                        down him. Tuna didn't work, neither did chicken or lunchmeat. The vet
                        put him on centrine which stopped most of the vomiting, he was
                        throwing up a little the past 2 mornings- just clear liquid, so at
                        least I know he is drinking when I'm not looking. Otherwise there
                        hasn't been a change in his behavior, still just sitting in a daze,
                        black eyes, inner eyelids half closed, not asleep but not very
                        responsive either. But at least he stopped vomiting and is starting to
                        drink.

                        --- In feline-heart@ yahoogroups. com, "lorkatz2004" <cbower@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > ---
                        >
                        > Try tempting them to eat with gerber baby food meat........ ...my cats
                        > love it.
                        >
                        > Cathy
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > In feline-heart@ yahoogroups. com, Sue B <susan@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Jessie,
                        > >
                        > > It's important that he eat something, so right now it's not so
                        > important
                        > > what he eats as much as that he eats something. Once cats stop
                        > eating, it
                        > > can be difficult to get them started again.
                        > >
                        > > You may want to join the Feline Assisted Feeding Yahoo group.
                        > >
                        > > As for foods, this post has a list of the better brands. Pick one
                        > of them &
                        > > decide which flavor to feed. I like the Wellness since you can
                        buy the
                        > > 12-oz cans and it's less expensive.
                        > > http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ feline-heart/ message/31652
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@ >
                        > > To: <feline-heart@ yahoogroups. com>
                        > > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:56 PM
                        > > Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Thank you so much for the information.
                        > > >
                        > > > The vet actually just drained his chest cavity 3 weeks ago. It
                        wasn't
                        > > > milky at all it was more of a watery dried blood color. He's
                        tried to
                        > > > eat but just ends up vomiting it up a few minutes later, that was 2
                        > > > days ago. He just threw up foam so he must have had a drink.
                        Good news
                        > > > is he is more active today, walking around, taking more
                        attention. So
                        > > > hopefully he's pulling through this rough patch.
                        > > >
                        > > > Neither of my cats will eat fish, not even flavored treats or
                        the tuna
                        > > > flakes. I can get Dexter to eat some canned tuna occasionally
                        but it's
                        > > > only a nibble. I have a DSH female, Cocoa, who will only eat dry
                        food.
                        > > > She won't even eat fresh chicken. She's the reason why they have a
                        > > > mixed diet. Could you recommend a good wet food to switch them too?
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In feline-heart@ yahoogroups. com, Sue B <susan@> wrote:
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Jessica,
                        > > >>
                        > > >> If Dexter has fluid outside of his lungs, he should probably be on
                        > > >> spironolactone (aka "spiro") since that is excellent at removing
                        > fluid
                        > > >> outside of the lungs. My cardiologist was hesitant to put
                        Pepper on
                        > > > it but
                        > > >> once he did, the results were great. If the fluid is milky in
                        > > > color, then
                        > > >> it's "chyle" which is a byproduct of the lymphatic system.
                        Rutin is
                        > > > great
                        > > >> for controlling chyle. The dose is 500mg daily orally and it's
                        > > > available in
                        > > >> most health food and vitamin stores.
                        > > >>
                        > > >> I'd guess that if he's not eating, he's probably full of fluid.
                        > > > That means
                        > > >> he should see the vet very soon!!!!!!!! !
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Cats need meat and dry cat food is more fillers than anything.
                        > > > Since cats
                        > > >> don't have the digestive enzymes needed to process carbohydrates,
                        > > > it's not
                        > > >> good for them to be eating grains or vegetables. Foods that
                        contain
                        > > > those
                        > > >> are marketed for humans since we know that it's healthy for US to
                        > > > eat those
                        > > >> things. If you go to http://www.catinfo. org you'll find
                        > information on
                        > > >> nutrition and how to transition your dry-food junkie over to a
                        > > > healthier
                        > > >> diet of canned (or raw).
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Here's another post regarding nutrition and which foods are
                        superior
                        > > >> http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ feline-heart/ message/31652
                        > > >>
                        > > >> One canned food that I've found to be helpful in transition or when
                        > > > they're
                        > > >> not eating is the Solid Gold tuna cat food. While it's not really
                        > > > good to
                        > > >> feed fish, some cats will eat it - and that gets them used to the
                        > > > texture &
                        > > >> moisture of canned food. It's also good if they're not eating.
                        > > > Another
                        > > >> suggestion to get him eating again are dried tuna flakes. You can
                        > > > get them
                        > > >> in many pet supply stores.
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Often pet food companies will change their formulas or suppliers
                        > > > without
                        > > >> notifying the public (they're not required to). But the animals
                        > > > notice the
                        > > >> change right away. That may explain why he stopped eating the
                        > > > canned food.
                        > > >>
                        > > >> As for supplements - the most important is CoQ10. That helps
                        improve
                        > > >> cellular health and is most important for treating heart disease &
                        > > > cancer.
                        > > >> The normal dose for a cat is 30mg daily. Start with a smaller dose
                        > > > & build
                        > > >> up. My holistic vet suggested giving 120mg daily. Just note that
                        > > > if you
                        > > >> stop, you need to decrease the dose gradually or it can cause a
                        > rebound
                        > > >> effect where they will get sick.
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Other supplements -
                        > > >> l-carnitine (2nd most important), l-lysine and taurine (these 3
                        > are all
                        > > >> amino acids).
                        > > >> TMG or DMG (increase oxygenation at the cellular level) - 50mg
                        daily
                        > > >> Essential fatty acids (EFAs - aka omega oils - help to maintain
                        > > > weight /
                        > > >> reduce cachexia, decrease clotting)
                        > > >> Vitamin E (decrease clotting)
                        > > >> Nattokinase (decrease clotting - most effective supplement for
                        this)
                        > > > - 72mg
                        > > >> daily
                        > > >> A good multi-vitamin/ mineral supplement such as Tabby Tabs (also
                        > > > sold as
                        > > >> NuCat)
                        > > >> A multi-heart supplement such as Heart Discovery (also sold as
                        Cardio
                        > > >> Strength)
                        > > >> Pro-biotics (e.g. Jarrow's Petdophilis) to aid digestion
                        > > >> Bioplasma (is a combination of cell salts to help the body's cells
                        > > > work more
                        > > >> efficiently) - 1 tablet daily
                        > > >>
                        > > >> There are others too. I'm sure that other people will chime in
                        & to
                        > > > fill in
                        > > >> the blanks with the dosages. I've used all of the ones listed
                        above
                        > > > - but
                        > > >> not necessarily all at once. You will need to figure out which
                        ones
                        > > > Dexter
                        > > >> needs but I suggest starting with the CoQ10 and l-carnitine.
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Sue & angel Pepper
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >> ----- Original Message -----
                        > > >> From: "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@ >
                        > > >> To: "Sue B" <susan@>
                        > > >> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:27 AM
                        > > >> Subject: Re: [FH] Ragdolls with HCM
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >> My Dexter was bad from the beginning. He started breathing
                        heavily at
                        > > >> 4 months old, and my vet couldn't figure out what was the
                        problem. I
                        > > >> was unaware of the possiblity of HCM. So the vet and I did some
                        > > >> research and at 5 months we took an x-ray and it was appalling. 2
                        > > >> weeks later, he was with a cardiologist and was diagnosed. He
                        was so
                        > > >> bad at that point there wasn't much we could do. His chest was
                        > drained
                        > > >> and he was put on some medications (lasix, benezipril,
                        diltiazem, and
                        > > >> plavix -which has been switched to baby asprin every 4 days b/c
                        > he was
                        > > >> getting sick from it). At this point, Dante was cleared as
                        fine. Last
                        > > >> month at Dante's check up the x-ray showed his heart had enlarged
                        > > >> slightly and he was immediately put on the same meds as Dexter,
                        minus
                        > > >> the lasix since there was no fluid build up.
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Dante is still fully active, playful, and eating everything in
                        sight.
                        > > >> Dexter goes through good and bad times. Some were bad enough for
                        > me to
                        > > >> contemplate other options, but he always bounced bad to his happy
                        > self
                        > > >> within 2-3 days. This time is definitely worse than those times.
                        > He's
                        > > >> lethargic, vomiting bile, refuses 90% of my petting and attention,
                        > > >> hasn't eaten in 2 days, sits in front of the water bowl wanting to
                        > > >> drink but never touches it, and i know by the way he looks at
                        me like
                        > > >> he's in pain. The vet also gave me a medication to ease the
                        vomiting
                        > > >> and he's off everything else except the diltiazem and that.
                        > > >>
                        > > >> I do as much as I found I can do, they both get wet (pet
                        promise) and
                        > > >> dry (royal cannin) food although Dexter refuses his wet food as
                        of 2
                        > > >> months ago- I did manage to get some Fancy Feast down him regularly
                        > > >> after trying several brands. I also manage to get him to eat some
                        > > >> fresh chicken I cook up but that's only occasionally as well. I
                        have
                        > > >> noticed his changes in body temperature sometimes his ears are
                        > > >> freezing other times they're so hot to the touch. I try my best to
                        > > >> warm him and cool him, when he's hot I boost the a/c and he
                        likes to
                        > > >> lay on the vents, when he's cold we have a heated blanket or he
                        likes
                        > > >> to wedge himself between the covers of the bed. He also only
                        weights
                        > > >> 9lbs compared to his smaller (length) brother who is almost 12 now.
                        > > >> He's so thin and his fur is so unhealthy and brittle which causes
                        > tons
                        > > >> of mats. His whiskers are also brittle you can always tell
                        which side
                        > > >> he was laying on b/c his whiskers don't just bounce back into
                        place.
                        > > >>
                        > > >> I don't know anything about supplements, found some things online
                        > > >> about it but they never said how much, when, where to get them,
                        etc.
                        > > >> So any advice is greatly appreciated.
                        > > >>
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                        > > >
                        > > > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your
                        > reply
                        > > > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                        > > > feline-heart@ ! Groups Links
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >


















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • jessiesrags
                        Well Dexter is getting worse now. His legs are getting stiffer when he walks around, I assume because of the crunched up position he stays in. He still hasn t
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 30, 2008
                          Well Dexter is getting worse now. His legs are getting stiffer when he
                          walks around, I assume because of the crunched up position he stays
                          in. He still hasn't eaten anything and I only saw him drink once it
                          was barely a lick. He also started wailing this afternoon and everyone
                          (including our other cats) came running. I lost a cat previously to
                          heart failure, and he was acting the same way. We're thinking about
                          taking him to the emergency clinic and letting him go. But I've never
                          done that before. We went to with our last cat but he died after about
                          20 min at the clinic from the stress. I don't know what to do, we're
                          trying to decide. Please keep him in your prayers and thanks to
                          everyone for all your support. I'll keep everyone posted.


                          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I have 2 Ragdolls (brothers), 16 months old, who have both been
                          > diagnosed with HCM. One, Dexter, is in the final stages. He was given
                          > 3-6 months 6 1/2 months ago and is currently going through a rough
                          > patch- the worst so far. The other, Dante, has an enlarged heart but
                          > it was found soon enough to start meds to treat him and help him live
                          > a more prolonged life. I'm looking for other people going through (or
                          > have gone) to exchange advice and help with answers during my many
                          > moments of panic. So is there anyone out there?
                          >
                          > Jessica
                          >
                        • Carol
                          Jessica, I m sorry things aren t going well for Dexter. We re sending prayers to you both. hugs, Carol and Snowball and the gang
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 30, 2008
                            Jessica,

                            I'm sorry things aren't going well for Dexter. We're sending prayers
                            to you both.

                            hugs,
                            Carol and Snowball and the gang
                          • Gina Fayne
                            This is very sad news. I am so sorry to hear that Dexter has taken a turn for the worse. My thoughts are with you. Gina
                            Message 13 of 17 , Aug 30, 2008
                              This is very sad news. I am so sorry to hear that Dexter has taken a turn for the worse. My thoughts are with you.
                              Gina


                              --- On Sat, 8/30/08, jessiesrags <jessbaiera@...> wrote:

                              > From: jessiesrags <jessbaiera@...>
                              > Subject: [FH] Re: Ragdolls with HCM
                              > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 6:26 PM
                              > Well Dexter is getting worse now. His legs are getting
                              > stiffer when he
                              > walks around, I assume because of the crunched up position
                              > he stays
                              > in. He still hasn't eaten anything and I only saw him
                              > drink once it
                              > was barely a lick. He also started wailing this afternoon
                              > and everyone
                              > (including our other cats) came running. I lost a cat
                              > previously to
                              > heart failure, and he was acting the same way. We're
                              > thinking about
                              > taking him to the emergency clinic and letting him go. But
                              > I've never
                              > done that before. We went to with our last cat but he died
                              > after about
                              > 20 min at the clinic from the stress. I don't know what
                              > to do, we're
                              > trying to decide. Please keep him in your prayers and
                              > thanks to
                              > everyone for all your support. I'll keep everyone
                              > posted.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com,
                              > "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I have 2 Ragdolls (brothers), 16 months old, who have
                              > both been
                              > > diagnosed with HCM. One, Dexter, is in the final
                              > stages. He was given
                              > > 3-6 months 6 1/2 months ago and is currently going
                              > through a rough
                              > > patch- the worst so far. The other, Dante, has an
                              > enlarged heart but
                              > > it was found soon enough to start meds to treat him
                              > and help him live
                              > > a more prolonged life. I'm looking for other
                              > people going through (or
                              > > have gone) to exchange advice and help with answers
                              > during my many
                              > > moments of panic. So is there anyone out there?
                              > >
                              > > Jessica
                              > >
                            • jessiesrags
                              Dexter passed away peacefully this afternoon. Thanks to everyone for all the support and information. I m going to start Dante on the supplements this week, to
                              Message 14 of 17 , Aug 31, 2008
                                Dexter passed away peacefully this afternoon. Thanks to everyone for
                                all the support and information. I'm going to start Dante on the
                                supplements this week, to help keep him from progressing anymore than
                                he already has. Thanks again for all your prayers.


                                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I have 2 Ragdolls (brothers), 16 months old, who have both been
                                > diagnosed with HCM. One, Dexter, is in the final stages. He was given
                                > 3-6 months 6 1/2 months ago and is currently going through a rough
                                > patch- the worst so far. The other, Dante, has an enlarged heart but
                                > it was found soon enough to start meds to treat him and help him live
                                > a more prolonged life. I'm looking for other people going through (or
                                > have gone) to exchange advice and help with answers during my many
                                > moments of panic. So is there anyone out there?
                                >
                                > Jessica
                                >
                              • Gina Fayne
                                I am so very sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you and little Dante. Gina
                                Message 15 of 17 , Aug 31, 2008
                                  I am so very sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you and little Dante.
                                  Gina


                                  --- On Sun, 8/31/08, jessiesrags <jessbaiera@...> wrote:

                                  > From: jessiesrags <jessbaiera@...>
                                  > Subject: [FH] Re: Ragdolls with HCM
                                  > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 2:43 PM
                                  > Dexter passed away peacefully this afternoon. Thanks to
                                  > everyone for
                                  > all the support and information. I'm going to start
                                  > Dante on the
                                  > supplements this week, to help keep him from progressing
                                  > anymore than
                                  > he already has. Thanks again for all your prayers.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I have 2 Ragdolls (brothers), 16 months old, who have
                                  > both been
                                  > > diagnosed with HCM. One, Dexter, is in the final
                                  > stages. He was given
                                  > > 3-6 months 6 1/2 months ago and is currently going
                                  > through a rough
                                  > > patch- the worst so far. The other, Dante, has an
                                  > enlarged heart but
                                  > > it was found soon enough to start meds to treat him
                                  > and help him live
                                  > > a more prolonged life. I'm looking for other
                                  > people going through (or
                                  > > have gone) to exchange advice and help with answers
                                  > during my many
                                  > > moments of panic. So is there anyone out there?
                                  > >
                                  > > Jessica
                                  > >
                                • Michaela Lemon
                                  Hugs. I m sorry to hear about Dexter but am so glad it was peaceful. Love to you and Dante. Michaela xx _____ From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Aug 31, 2008
                                    Hugs. I'm sorry to hear about Dexter but am so glad it was peaceful. Love
                                    to you and Dante.

                                    Michaela xx

                                    _____

                                    From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    Behalf Of jessiesrags
                                    Sent: 31 August 2008 19:43
                                    To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [FH] Re: Ragdolls with HCM



                                    Dexter passed away peacefully this afternoon. Thanks to everyone for
                                    all the support and information. I'm going to start Dante on the
                                    supplements this week, to help keep him from progressing anymore than
                                    he already has. Thanks again for all your prayers.

                                    --- In feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    yahoogroups.com, "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I have 2 Ragdolls (brothers), 16 months old, who have both been
                                    > diagnosed with HCM. One, Dexter, is in the final stages. He was given
                                    > 3-6 months 6 1/2 months ago and is currently going through a rough
                                    > patch- the worst so far. The other, Dante, has an enlarged heart but
                                    > it was found soon enough to start meds to treat him and help him live
                                    > a more prolonged life. I'm looking for other people going through (or
                                    > have gone) to exchange advice and help with answers during my many
                                    > moments of panic. So is there anyone out there?
                                    >
                                    > Jessica
                                    >






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • tabbyandpeachy
                                    Jessica, I am so sorry about Dexter. May time heal your heart, and memories comfort your soul. All my blessings go out to you and Dante Kitty (((hugs))) and
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Aug 31, 2008
                                      Jessica, I am so sorry about Dexter.
                                      May time heal your heart, and memories comfort your soul.
                                      All my blessings go out to you and Dante
                                      Kitty (((hugs))) and purrayers -Patty

                                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Dexter passed away peacefully this afternoon. Thanks to everyone for
                                      > all the support and information. I'm going to start Dante on the
                                      > supplements this week, to help keep him from progressing anymore
                                      than
                                      > he already has. Thanks again for all your prayers.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "jessiesrags" <jessbaiera@>
                                      wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I have 2 Ragdolls (brothers), 16 months old, who have both been
                                      > > diagnosed with HCM. One, Dexter, is in the final stages. He was
                                      given
                                      > > 3-6 months 6 1/2 months ago and is currently going through a rough
                                      > > patch- the worst so far. The other, Dante, has an enlarged heart
                                      but
                                      > > it was found soon enough to start meds to treat him and help him
                                      live
                                      > > a more prolonged life. I'm looking for other people going through
                                      (or
                                      > > have gone) to exchange advice and help with answers during my many
                                      > > moments of panic. So is there anyone out there?
                                      > >
                                      > > Jessica
                                      > >
                                      >
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