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Re: Questions about Enalapril...need help/lost mail

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  • fredsus1@hotmail.com
    Hi Victoria, It s that dratted Hotmail account. I don t have time to try to figure it out and so I usually post via the web but like messages cc d to me..I
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 4, 2001
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      Hi Victoria,

      It's that dratted Hotmail account. I don't have time to try to figure
      it out and so I usually post via the web but like messages cc'd to
      me..I cleaned my account out so *hopefully* things will work. I also
      have server problems.

      Voula I think I got your message!

      Susie

      --- In feline-heart@y..., VHess2000@c... wrote:
      > I've tried sending a long message to you privately, but it was
      returned,
      > though the address was correct. Shall I resend or forward it to
      the list?
      >
      > Victoria
    • Lynna
      I would discontinue the sub-q s - Jerkie s numbers don t seem bad at all regarding kidney. Treat the heart with the lasix to prevent fluid build up. There is
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 5, 2001
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        I would discontinue the sub-q's - Jerkie's numbers don't seem bad at
        all regarding kidney. Treat the heart with the lasix to prevent fluid
        build up. There is an old saying about treating the heart first and
        kidneys second. Sabrina's bun is 49 and her creatinine is 2.6 and we
        do not do sub q. Her brother died of Chronic Renal Failure and we
        never did sub q with him either and he had a great life and lived a
        full six years after CRF diagnosis hovering at BUN of 50 -66 and
        Creatinine of 2.6 to 6.2 - and the deterioration took six years with
        the kidneys. Hearts fail much quicker. yes the lasix will stress the
        kidneys but you really have little choice. See if the vet can give you
        spironolactone instead of lasix or with it - it is a potassim sparing
        diuretic.
        Good luck
        Lynna

        --- In feline-heart@y..., fredsus1@h... wrote:
        > Hi Victoria,
        >
        > Thanks for your replies. I just talked to my vet who fortunately
        > gives me all the time I need on the phone. I believe I pushed Jerkie
        > into CHF because of subq's...unknowingly. He is 18, has
        mild/moderate
        > crf with numbers (thank God) in the 2.9 (creatinine) and BUN is
        40's.
        > I am trying not to worry too much about the crf right now as
        > obviously the heart comes first. Yes he did perk up quite a bit
        after
        > lasix shot, purring and eating a lot. I didn't understand the
        > importance of lasix, at least until the enacard kicks in which
        should
        > take another week. I stopped all subq's as I do not know what to do
        > about that..he appears better after the lasix pills and starts to
        > drink on his own. I am realizing I need to be aggressive in treating
        > the fluid build-up while waiting for the enacard to help, but here's
        > where things get muddled...do I give subq's...I stopped both lasix
        > and subq's and I feel lasix makes him feel better but I was
        terrified
        > of dehydrating him although he does hit the water dish so he's
        trying
        > to compensate. I would like to do dandelion extract...I imagine this
        > is something I should keep him on for life?? His current condition
        is
        > that he's elderly, he eats o.k.(better for the lasix) is alert and
        > kidney numbers are not all that bad...I just didn't realize the
        > importance taking care of that fluid build-up, I was so concerned
        > using the lasix.
        >
        > I was approved by IMOM (a charitable organization) for an
        ultrasound,
        > unfortunately the cardiologist won't be able to see him until the
        > 27th and in the meantime his normal vet is saying he's guessing it
        is
        > HC, via x-ray. This is the best we can do for now. I am thinking I
        > should keep up with some sort of diuretic, especially for now?? As
        > far as subq's that is what I can't figure out.
        >
        > I realize he is elderly and I might just be making him comfortable,
        > but I know that is THE goal...his comfort and I'm looking at this as
        > a wake-up call and am thankful I am able to help him, whatever time
        > he has left.
        >
        > Susie and the Bums
        >
        > --- In feline-heart@y..., VHess2000@c... wrote:
        > > You and Jerkie have a complicated situation to negotiate.
        > Preventing fluid
        > > build-up is the first priority of managing heart disease. Did
        your
        > vet
        > > advise the cesation of lasix? Are you supposed to be giving sub
        > Q's for the
        > > crf? As Jerkie just had a fluid-related crisis(congestive heart
        > failure),
        > > I'd really hesitate withdrawing lasix right away, but don't know
        > how damaged
        > > his kidneys are. That can be more stressful on his heart than the
        > lasix is
        > > on his kidneys. The reason he felt better after the lasix
        > injection, is that
        > > the pleural edema was resolved, allowing him to breath.
        > Maintenance doses of
        > > lasix will forestall the development of further fluid build-up. I
        > don't
        > > think you've mentioned whether he's had an ultrasound yet. What
        > type of
        > > cardiomyopathy does he have? Is he suffering from right or left
        > heart
        > > failure, or are both ventricles damaged? How old is he? How
        > severe is his
        > > crf? His current physical condition, in light of the answers to
        > these
        > > questions, would determine his risk for rapid fluid-up. If you
        > want to try
        > > dandelion, I'd start making a weak tea or adding a few drops of
        > tincture in
        > > his water every day, then maybe after 3 -4 weeks, cutting his
        lasix
        > dosage
        > > back slowly. Weigh him regularly to see if he's gaining weight.
        My
        > roommate,
        > > who also has cardiomyopathy, is in a study examining the effects
        of
        > fluid
        > > build-up on energy level and functioning. She has to call her
        > weight in
        > > every week, and as soon as she goes up 2 pounds they increase her
        > diueretic
        > > dosages.
        > >
        > > The COQ10 will help his energy levels, and the DMG is also very
        > good. It's
        > > hard to say when you'll see some improvement. He's had a health
        > crisis.
        > > Neither Enecard or Enelapril should pose a problem. Bascially,
        > they're
        > > turning off the body's hormone signal that tells the heart to pump
        > harder and
        > > faster in the face of decreased heart function. My Kira was given
        > 48 hours
        > > to live when she was in respiratory distress, but turned around in
        > 12 hours
        > > after her lasix injection. She still needed several weeks to
        > recover fully
        > > from her blood clot, but the congestive heart failure resolved
        > quickly after
        > > the lasix was injected and she remained on lasix until her death
        > six months
        > > later. I did cut her dosage back though, but remained viligent
        for
        > > fluid-build up or wet sounding lungs. She never had another fluid
        > problem
        > > but did have another blood clot. My roommate was bed ridden for 4
        > weeks after
        > > her initial hospitalization for congestive heart failure.
        > >
        > > I'm afraid that cardiomyopathy is a chronic, progressive
        condition,
        > and
        > > Jerkie's medications will have to be fine tuned as the disease
        > progresses,
        > > and in light of the risks posed by the crf. It might be that you
        > have to do
        > > a balancing act, providing sub q's for a couple of days, than
        > aggressively
        > > attacking the fluid build-up, until he needs sub q's again.
        THere
        > will
        > > invaribly, be risks associated with both scenerios. You might
        want
        > to write
        > > down all your questions for your vet, prior to your next visit.
        > >
        > > Victoria
      • Lynna
        Oh and one other thing - is enalapril like lanoxin? If so - I checked with my own internist, a holistic vet, our regular vet and the cardio vet and the ALL
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 5, 2001
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          Oh and one other thing -
          is enalapril like lanoxin? If so - I checked with my own internist, a
          holistic vet, our regular vet and the cardio vet and the ALL said that
          the lanoxin improves her heart function by maybe 1% - and she felt
          lousy on it. Totally zoned out. For 1% it wasn't worth it - like you
          said - quality of life is the big concern. So we just do the
          acupuncutre which she likes once every 10 days, 1/4 baby aspirin 2
          times a week, 1/4 spiro 2 x day and 1/4 lasix 1 x per day. She also
          gets a little metamucil in some gravy each day which she loves and she
          gets laxaire which she also loves. I refuse to make her last months on
          this earth a living nightmare of pills and potions. She has the time
          she has and I will fight to keep her quality up!
          Lynna

          --- In feline-heart@y..., "Lynna" <lynnajane@e...> wrote:
          > I would discontinue the sub-q's - Jerkie's numbers don't seem bad at
          > all regarding kidney. Treat the heart with the lasix to prevent
          fluid
          > build up. There is an old saying about treating the heart first and
          > kidneys second. Sabrina's bun is 49 and her creatinine is 2.6 and we
          > do not do sub q. Her brother died of Chronic Renal Failure and we
          > never did sub q with him either and he had a great life and lived a
          > full six years after CRF diagnosis hovering at BUN of 50 -66 and
          > Creatinine of 2.6 to 6.2 - and the deterioration took six years with
          > the kidneys. Hearts fail much quicker. yes the lasix will stress the
          > kidneys but you really have little choice. See if the vet can give
          you
          > spironolactone instead of lasix or with it - it is a potassim
          sparing
          > diuretic.
          > Good luck
          > Lynna
          >
          > --- In feline-heart@y..., fredsus1@h... wrote:
          > > Hi Victoria,
          > >
          > > Thanks for your replies. I just talked to my vet who fortunately
          > > gives me all the time I need on the phone. I believe I pushed
          Jerkie
          > > into CHF because of subq's...unknowingly. He is 18, has
          > mild/moderate
          > > crf with numbers (thank God) in the 2.9 (creatinine) and BUN is
          > 40's.
          > > I am trying not to worry too much about the crf right now as
          > > obviously the heart comes first. Yes he did perk up quite a bit
          > after
          > > lasix shot, purring and eating a lot. I didn't understand the
          > > importance of lasix, at least until the enacard kicks in which
          > should
          > > take another week. I stopped all subq's as I do not know what to
          do
          > > about that..he appears better after the lasix pills and starts to
          > > drink on his own. I am realizing I need to be aggressive in
          treating
          > > the fluid build-up while waiting for the enacard to help, but
          here's
          > > where things get muddled...do I give subq's...I stopped both lasix
          > > and subq's and I feel lasix makes him feel better but I was
          > terrified
          > > of dehydrating him although he does hit the water dish so he's
          > trying
          > > to compensate. I would like to do dandelion extract...I imagine
          this
          > > is something I should keep him on for life?? His current condition
          > is
          > > that he's elderly, he eats o.k.(better for the lasix) is alert and
          > > kidney numbers are not all that bad...I just didn't realize the
          > > importance taking care of that fluid build-up, I was so concerned
          > > using the lasix.
          > >
          > > I was approved by IMOM (a charitable organization) for an
          > ultrasound,
          > > unfortunately the cardiologist won't be able to see him until the
          > > 27th and in the meantime his normal vet is saying he's guessing it
          > is
          > > HC, via x-ray. This is the best we can do for now. I am thinking I
          > > should keep up with some sort of diuretic, especially for now?? As
          > > far as subq's that is what I can't figure out.
          > >
          > > I realize he is elderly and I might just be making him
          comfortable,
          > > but I know that is THE goal...his comfort and I'm looking at this
          as
          > > a wake-up call and am thankful I am able to help him, whatever
          time
          > > he has left.
          > >
          > > Susie and the Bums
          > >
          > > --- In feline-heart@y..., VHess2000@c... wrote:
          > > > You and Jerkie have a complicated situation to negotiate.
          > > Preventing fluid
          > > > build-up is the first priority of managing heart disease. Did
          > your
          > > vet
          > > > advise the cesation of lasix? Are you supposed to be giving sub
          > > Q's for the
          > > > crf? As Jerkie just had a fluid-related crisis(congestive heart
          > > failure),
          > > > I'd really hesitate withdrawing lasix right away, but don't know
          > > how damaged
          > > > his kidneys are. That can be more stressful on his heart than
          the
          > > lasix is
          > > > on his kidneys. The reason he felt better after the lasix
          > > injection, is that
          > > > the pleural edema was resolved, allowing him to breath.
          > > Maintenance doses of
          > > > lasix will forestall the development of further fluid build-up.
          I
          > > don't
          > > > think you've mentioned whether he's had an ultrasound yet. What
          > > type of
          > > > cardiomyopathy does he have? Is he suffering from right or left
          > > heart
          > > > failure, or are both ventricles damaged? How old is he? How
          > > severe is his
          > > > crf? His current physical condition, in light of the answers to
          > > these
          > > > questions, would determine his risk for rapid fluid-up. If you
          > > want to try
          > > > dandelion, I'd start making a weak tea or adding a few drops of
          > > tincture in
          > > > his water every day, then maybe after 3 -4 weeks, cutting his
          > lasix
          > > dosage
          > > > back slowly. Weigh him regularly to see if he's gaining weight.

          > My
          > > roommate,
          > > > who also has cardiomyopathy, is in a study examining the effects
          > of
          > > fluid
          > > > build-up on energy level and functioning. She has to call her
          > > weight in
          > > > every week, and as soon as she goes up 2 pounds they increase
          her
          > > diueretic
          > > > dosages.
          > > >
          > > > The COQ10 will help his energy levels, and the DMG is also very
          > > good. It's
          > > > hard to say when you'll see some improvement. He's had a health
          > > crisis.
          > > > Neither Enecard or Enelapril should pose a problem. Bascially,
          > > they're
          > > > turning off the body's hormone signal that tells the heart to
          pump
          > > harder and
          > > > faster in the face of decreased heart function. My Kira was
          given
          > > 48 hours
          > > > to live when she was in respiratory distress, but turned around
          in
          > > 12 hours
          > > > after her lasix injection. She still needed several weeks to
          > > recover fully
          > > > from her blood clot, but the congestive heart failure resolved
          > > quickly after
          > > > the lasix was injected and she remained on lasix until her death
          > > six months
          > > > later. I did cut her dosage back though, but remained viligent
          > for
          > > > fluid-build up or wet sounding lungs. She never had another
          fluid
          > > problem
          > > > but did have another blood clot. My roommate was bed ridden for
          4
          > > weeks after
          > > > her initial hospitalization for congestive heart failure.
          > > >
          > > > I'm afraid that cardiomyopathy is a chronic, progressive
          > condition,
          > > and
          > > > Jerkie's medications will have to be fine tuned as the disease
          > > progresses,
          > > > and in light of the risks posed by the crf. It might be that
          you
          > > have to do
          > > > a balancing act, providing sub q's for a couple of days, than
          > > aggressively
          > > > attacking the fluid build-up, until he needs sub q's again.
          > THere
          > > will
          > > > invaribly, be risks associated with both scenerios. You might
          > want
          > > to write
          > > > down all your questions for your vet, prior to your next visit.

          > > >
          > > > Victoria
        • ramtrimble@aol.com
          How much does your cat weigh and what was the dose of enacard?? Robin and Rusty [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 13, 2001
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            How much does your cat weigh and what was the dose of enacard??

            Robin and Rusty


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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