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Question about Alpha Lipoic Acid

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  • bronzino22
    Hello, A couple of weeks ago I posted about the remarkable progress my cat Buffy has been making since I started giving her 50mg Q10 softgels. This was a cat
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 3 9:14 AM
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      Hello,

      A couple of weeks ago I posted about the remarkable progress my cat
      Buffy has been making since I started giving her 50mg Q10 softgels.
      This was a cat that has been requiring progressively more lasix over
      the past 20 months to the point that we were up to 50-60mg/day, and
      was still managing to slide into pulmonary edema the second we let
      down our guard. But since she's been taking the softgels for just over
      a month, we've been able to cut back her back to 25mg/day now and
      counting, while her breathing is slower and more stable than ever.

      Anyway, when I went to get a new bottle, I noticed that the particular
      brand I was giving her also included 50mg of alpha-lipoic acid. Which
      got me wondering if this what was proving to be so beneficial or was
      it just a matter of moving her to a more efficient form of q10.

      So I came here to look for info, and there are only 7 posts that
      mention alpha-lipoic acid, one of which states that it is potentially
      "toxic" to cats in doses over 30mg.

      So obviously I'm very concerned. Does anyone know what exactly is
      meant by "toxic", which is obviously bad, but just was wondering what
      are the potential side effects. She's been responding so well to these
      pills so far, it's been amazing, given us a lot more freedom in
      feeling ok with leaving her alone for longer periods of time. I'm
      afraid to take her off them. But I'd hate to think I'm poisoning my cat.

      Thanks in advance,
      Sandra
    • Carol
      hi Sandra, I m not sure about the toxicity of ALA (alpha lipoic acid) for cats, but I ve been giving it to my cats and dogs for years, and in much higher doses
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 3 4:03 PM
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        hi Sandra,

        I'm not sure about the toxicity of ALA (alpha lipoic acid) for cats,
        but I've been giving it to my cats and dogs for years, and in much
        higher doses than that. It's typically used to help cleanse the liver.
        ALA, milk thistle, SAMe (s-adenosyl l-methionine), these are all
        things that can help detox the liver.

        ALA increases the production of glutathione. It can cause some stomach
        upset.
      • savionna@aol.com
        Hi Sandra, ... Here s the study, at Pub Med ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed ) #15059240 entitled Lipoic acid is 10 times more toxic in cats than reported
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 3 4:23 PM
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          Hi Sandra,

          In a message dated 7/3/08 12:14:57 PM, sandra.richards@... writes:

          > So I came here to look for info, and there are only 7 posts that
          > mention alpha-lipoic acid, one of which states that it is potentially
          > "toxic" to cats in doses over 30mg.
          >
          > So obviously I'm very concerned. Does anyone know what exactly is
          > meant by "toxic", which is obviously bad, but just was wondering what
          > are the potential side effects.
          >
          Here's the study, at Pub Med ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed ) #15059240
          entitled "Lipoic acid is 10 times more toxic in cats than reported in humans,
          dogs or rats" by Hill et al at UC Davis Dept of Molecular Biosciences, School
          of Vet Med, in the Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition, April
          2004, 88 (3-4), 150-156:

          "The antioxidant lipoic acid (LA) is administered to humans and pets. We
          described acute toxicity and maximum tolerated dose (MTD) of LA in cats. In
          progression, 10 healthy adult male cats received orally 60 (high), 30 (low), or 0 mg
          LA/kg (control). Serum enzyme activities and concentrations of bile acids,
          ammonia, amino acids (AA), LA and dihydrolipoic acid (DHLA) were measured, and
          tissues examined microscopically. Significant clinical toxicity with changes in
          ammonia and AA concentrations occurred in all high-dose cats. Oral LA
          produced hepatocellular toxicity and MTD was < 30 mg/kg in cats."

          So, what is meant by "toxic" in this case is damage to the liver, along with
          changes in ammonia and amino acids. // Rosemary


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        • Carol
          Sorry...I hit send before I was done! I found a lot of sites that state that it s toxic to cats at doses over 25mg per day because cats lack the ability to
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 3 5:14 PM
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            Sorry...I hit send before I was done!

            I found a lot of sites that state that it's toxic to cats at doses
            over 25mg per day because cats lack the ability to metabolize it
            completely and it can cause liver toxicity...so it actually can cause
            one of the things that you'd be taking it for, which is cleansing the
            liver.

            This site says it's okay at 25mg a day.
            http://www.viim.org/research/articles/diabetes.asp

            The veterinary supplement company, Thorne, uses it in some of their
            supplements. It looks like it's usually always at below the 25mg dose.
            Here's one. http://www.wellvet.com/smallanimalantioxidant.html

            Almost everything I found when I googled it was that it's toxic to
            cats at doses higher than 25mg a day.

            I found a few other supplements, pet ones, that include it in their
            formulations, but the amount is below the 25mg/day dose.

            I think that probably one of the reasons that your kitty is doing
            better could be the combination in the CoQ10 you're using. The
            ingredients all working together to improve things. How much of that
            role the ALA plays is hard to know. Maybe try another brand that
            doesn't have the ALA in it and just monitor and see how it goes?

            All these years that I've used ALA on my guys and never really knew
            about the toxicity thing for cats. I started using it years ago
            (2001), and at that time, I didn't find out about any toxicity with
            using it. Well then all these years inbetween, having never really
            looked it up again, until today when you asked about it, and now
            finding all this information about it being toxic to cats over a
            certain dose. I guess I was very lucky that it didn't hurt my guys
            back then.

            I'm so grateful that you posted today. We all need to know more about
            the supplements that we're giving our guys.

            I would, to be safe...try a different brand that doesn't have the ALA
            in it. I'm sure the ALA was put in there as an antioxidant, since the
            CoQ10 is also an antioxidant, so is the vitamin E, they must've
            figured that more bang for the buck type thing and add the ALA to the
            formula. There are other brands out there that have the liquid coQ10
            with vitamin E that don't add the ALA. Here are a few. These all have
            the CoQ10 plus vit. E.

            Country Life, CoQ10 Maxi-Sorb, 30 mg
            Doctor's Best, Best CoQ10, 30 mg
            Jarrow Formulas, Q-absorb Co-Q10, 30 mg
            Twin Labs, Twinsorb CoQ10 50 mg


            hugs,
            Carol and Snowball and the gang
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