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Feeling Down

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  • zellene.sandler@po.state.ct.us
    Okay, it works through the website...hope this isn t repeated two more times that I tried to send via email. I had a bad night last night. Widgie seems so weak
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 2, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Okay, it works through the website...hope this isn't repeated two
      more times that I tried to send via email.

      I had a bad night last night. Widgie seems so weak and tired. I had
      to give an extra 1/2 Lasix because her cough sounded wetter last
      night. She doesn't seem to want much affection...so unlike her former
      self. It just hurts me to see her like this. But heart rate was okay
      and even resp rate was okay.

      This morning she was on the bed. I cuddled her a little and she
      purred a little and licked my hand. She ate okay and then went in the
      bureau drawer to sleep for the day. She's started having a little
      trouble jumping up to the chair next to the dresser. She seems very
      weak. I just look into her eyes and she is saying to me she's tired,
      very tired.

      I just don't know what to do. My internal med vet is gone this week.
      Could it be low potassium? It was normal a couple weeks ago. For
      those of you using Lasix, does your vet give potassium supps? I am
      afraid to switch to the dandelion.

      So many of you say your cats have energy...why is Widgie like this?
      She is on a really low dose of heart meds so I don't think that's the
      cause. I really need some support today.

      z
    • Mike & Linda Irrgang
      hi z., i m sorry to herre that widgie is having difficulty...i m sure you have done all the right things and you really can t look at the vet s absence as a
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 2, 2001
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        hi z., i'm sorry to herre that widgie is having difficulty...i'm sure you
        have done all the right things and you really can't look at the vet's
        absence as a negative as i really believe that everything happens for the
        best and has a reason behind it.....with lasix my vet has prescribed
        electrolyte salts....iw onder if the difficulty moving could be related to
        her being dehydreted and having muscular/joint pain....but i just don't
        know....have you tried the "neck skin" hydration test??? you know you pull
        up the skin on the back of their neck and if it pops right back in plaace
        they are well hydrated and if it kinda stays in the pulled up positin it
        means they are dehydrated...

        is their anyone else you can consult....and would you even want to if there
        was? i know that i feel very reluctant to consult just any available
        person....

        recently i had to really look into my heart about the pum and i thought of
        big dom and his mom jeanne and how she took him off all the meds and what a
        hard call it was for her and how she lives on pins and needles now every
        minute of the day....i took pum off the enalapril and it was a hard decision
        to make but i know now that i will not go any further with meds or
        additional conventional med treatments....bec there comes a time when i have
        to ask myself "who am i doing this for? him or me? is it really meeting my
        need for him, to continue to have him around? or is it really what is best
        for him? and his quality of life? " somebody also said here recently "our
        babies are ok with death...it's us who aren't" and those words really
        touched me....(sorry for being so unoriginal, i just sorta pick up these
        tidbits that impact me but they are really someone else's sthoughts and
        actions)....

        and now i just got back from california from visiting my son/grandson and
        during that time i thought, gee, i just feel so old and tired compared to
        them(the son and daughter in law) and of course next to the grandson, i'm
        downnright decrepit and then i thought of my mom in houston who has had a
        really difficult time recently and is saying she wants to die and doesn't
        understand why she has sto go on living in her current condition (she has
        pretty bad arthritis and takeds pain meds but as we know the pain is still
        really there and drs seem to have an aversion to prescribing the real pain
        remedies due to fear of lawsuits, etc. it's just terrible) and then there i
        saw the cycle of life and how it goes around and how we try so hard to
        interject our own emotions, knowledge born of need, either emotional or
        physicsal and that in the end there is only so much that we can really do
        bec nature will still take its course.....we fool ourselves into thinking
        that we have control and we think sometimes that we do but in fact, in
        reality, we are only delaying the inevitable....

        and then i thought that it is important to for me to try to take a step
        forward to work on my ability to embrace that inevitability and rejoice in
        the cycle of life and rejoice in the happy moments that i have here and now
        with those that are important to me and whom i love and care for and try to
        find the strength to support them as much as they need in their time of need
        and pray that i can find that strength and the courage to make the right
        decision based on their needs and not mine.....i'm going to have to work on
        it alot...i'm basicaslly selfish and want the pum, my mom, my loved ones,
        around me forever....i will have to pray alot and muster up every ounce of
        strength....bec it's not easy....am i making any sense....

        i know that you have done everything you can for your baby and i think that
        holding her and loving her and letting her know that you care for her is the
        most important thing you can do...and you are doing it....you are making her
        feel loved...she is eating and that is very important and maybe she's tired
        and just wants to rest and know that you are there with her is enough for
        her....i can only say that i think i would try to find someone to get an
        opinion without traumatizing her and then look into your heart and try to
        answer the question "what would widgie want me to do for her" ........

        widgie has been a part of my llife for sometime now and i can feel so much
        sympathy for her and it hurts me too.....i don't know if i have hellped any
        but i hope that i have.....i'll light a special candle for you and widgie
        tonite and we'll say some special prayers for her to recover and for her
        mommy too.

        linda and the boys


        -----Original Message-----
        From: zellene.sandler@...
        [mailto:zellene.sandler@...]
        Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:49 AM
        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [feline-heart] Feeling Down


        Okay, it works through the website...hope this isn't repeated two
        more times that I tried to send via email.

        I had a bad night last night. Widgie seems so weak and tired. I had
        to give an extra 1/2 Lasix because her cough sounded wetter last
        night. She doesn't seem to want much affection...so unlike her former
        self. It just hurts me to see her like this. But heart rate was okay
        and even resp rate was okay.

        This morning she was on the bed. I cuddled her a little and she
        purred a little and licked my hand. She ate okay and then went in the
        bureau drawer to sleep for the day. She's started having a little
        trouble jumping up to the chair next to the dresser. She seems very
        weak. I just look into her eyes and she is saying to me she's tired,
        very tired.

        I just don't know what to do. My internal med vet is gone this week.
        Could it be low potassium? It was normal a couple weeks ago. For
        those of you using Lasix, does your vet give potassium supps? I am
        afraid to switch to the dandelion.

        So many of you say your cats have energy...why is Widgie like this?
        She is on a really low dose of heart meds so I don't think that's the
        cause. I really need some support today.

        z



        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • flyerfan@blazenet.net
        Well, since I am the 1 that took Dom off of all of the heart meds due to all of the problems in March, I sure will say that Linda knows me well. I was a
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 3, 2001
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          Well, since I am the 1 that took Dom off of all of the heart meds due
          to all of the problems in March, I sure will say that Linda knows me
          well. I was a nervous wreck for awhile just waiting for Dom to do
          something negative! We have now hit the 5 month mark and Dom is still
          going strong. He is still getting his hot spots and may need another
          nasty depo shot again. I see a small spot that I am treating with a
          topical as we try to avoid the steroids since they are bad for the
          heart too. My point in all of this is to back up Lindas comments. Of
          course the asthma may need the depo too soon so it is a wait and see.

          We were truly blessed with Doms picking us to be his family for
          whatever time that he has left. So far, he is still much better off
          of the meds than when he was when drugged. This is just this cats
          inability to metabolize meds into his system properly plus even a
          slight food change causes him problems--he is very sensitive. But in
          March, we decided that this is terminal and we would not traumatize
          him any longer. When he starts to slow down where he is looking
          tired, not eating etc., we will PTS as it is the thing to do for Dom.
          I want him with me forever, but not at Doms expense! I can really
          describe this right now because I had an 84 year old father that was
          in the hospital. He aspirated vomit and ended up with aspiration
          pneumonia and I found him in ICU on a ventilator when I got there
          after they called me. He spent 1 week in this condition and he just
          wasn't handling it. He was dependent on the ventilator for 100% of
          his oxygen and was fighting the vent so he needed to be totally
          sedated 24/7. After 7 days and no improvement, I was told there was
          probably permanent lung damage and he may never get off of the vent.
          He also needed 2 hip replacements, needed prostrate surgery, had a
          bad liver and now couldn't breathe. I asked to have him removed from
          the life support as I know this wasn't dads wishes. He never even
          wanted to go to a nursing home so I knew this would not be acceptable
          to him. If making Doms decision was tough, let's just say this 1 was
          tougher. He passed away on Wednesday morning but again I knew this
          was the right thing to do for him. Keeping him here was just going to
          be for me, not for him. I look at Dom in the same way as my dad and I
          will make the same decision quickly when the time comes for him. It
          doesn't make it easy but for me, I do know that what I do is the
          correct thing for the other person. I can live with that! Dom will
          probably slow down and sleep lots etc. and that will be fine and I
          will allow him to do this his own way. I will intervene when he shows
          any signs of suffering or he really lets me know that he has had
          enough. I feel sure that I will know by observing and talking to him.
          For Dom, not eating will be a sign as he loves his "foodies"! I had
          to PTS another cat, Snickers about 9 years ago and she told me when
          it was the time. For me the "Quality of Life" is the most important
          thing.

          Good luck Linda in coming to acceptance of this way of thinking.
          After fighting for so long it is hard because you want to do more
          and more, find new vets, new doctors, new meds etc. but sometimes
          just accepting the inevitable may be the kindest thing for our loved
          ones (both humans and pets). Just my opinion of course!!

          Jeanne, Dom, Bono & Louie


          --- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...> wrote:
          > hi z., i'm sorry to herre that widgie is having difficulty...i'm
          sure you
          > have done all the right things and you really can't look at the
          vet's
          > absence as a negative as i really believe that everything happens
          for the
          > best and has a reason behind it.....with lasix my vet has prescribed
          > electrolyte salts....iw onder if the difficulty moving could be
          related to
          > her being dehydreted and having muscular/joint pain....but i just
          don't
          > know....have you tried the "neck skin" hydration test??? you know
          you pull
          > up the skin on the back of their neck and if it pops right back in
          plaace
          > they are well hydrated and if it kinda stays in the pulled up
          positin it
          > means they are dehydrated...
          >
          > is their anyone else you can consult....and would you even want to
          if there
          > was? i know that i feel very reluctant to consult just any available
          > person....
          >
          > recently i had to really look into my heart about the pum and i
          thought of
          > big dom and his mom jeanne and how she took him off all the meds
          and what a
          > hard call it was for her and how she lives on pins and needles now
          every
          > minute of the day....i took pum off the enalapril and it was a hard
          decision
          > to make but i know now that i will not go any further with meds or
          > additional conventional med treatments....bec there comes a time
          when i have
          > to ask myself "who am i doing this for? him or me? is it really
          meeting my
          > need for him, to continue to have him around? or is it really what
          is best
          > for him? and his quality of life? " somebody also said here
          recently "our
          > babies are ok with death...it's us who aren't" and those words
          really
          > touched me....(sorry for being so unoriginal, i just sorta pick up
          these
          > tidbits that impact me but they are really someone else's sthoughts
          and
          > actions)....
          >
          > and now i just got back from california from visiting my
          son/grandson and
          > during that time i thought, gee, i just feel so old and tired
          compared to
          > them(the son and daughter in law) and of course next to the
          grandson, i'm
          > downnright decrepit and then i thought of my mom in houston who has
          had a
          > really difficult time recently and is saying she wants to die and
          doesn't
          > understand why she has sto go on living in her current condition
          (she has
          > pretty bad arthritis and takeds pain meds but as we know the pain
          is still
          > really there and drs seem to have an aversion to prescribing the
          real pain
          > remedies due to fear of lawsuits, etc. it's just terrible) and then
          there i
          > saw the cycle of life and how it goes around and how we try so hard
          to
          > interject our own emotions, knowledge born of need, either
          emotional or
          > physicsal and that in the end there is only so much that we can
          really do
          > bec nature will still take its course.....we fool ourselves into
          thinking
          > that we have control and we think sometimes that we do but in fact,
          in
          > reality, we are only delaying the inevitable....
          >
          > and then i thought that it is important to for me to try to take a
          step
          > forward to work on my ability to embrace that inevitability and
          rejoice in
          > the cycle of life and rejoice in the happy moments that i have here
          and now
          > with those that are important to me and whom i love and care for
          and try to
          > find the strength to support them as much as they need in their
          time of need
          > and pray that i can find that strength and the courage to make the
          right
          > decision based on their needs and not mine.....i'm going to have to
          work on
          > it alot...i'm basicaslly selfish and want the pum, my mom, my loved
          ones,
          > around me forever....i will have to pray alot and muster up every
          ounce of
          > strength....bec it's not easy....am i making any sense....
          >
          > i know that you have done everything you can for your baby and i
          think that
          > holding her and loving her and letting her know that you care for
          her is the
          > most important thing you can do...and you are doing it....you are
          making her
          > feel loved...she is eating and that is very important and maybe
          she's tired
          > and just wants to rest and know that you are there with her is
          enough for
          > her....i can only say that i think i would try to find someone to
          get an
          > opinion without traumatizing her and then look into your heart and
          try to
          > answer the question "what would widgie want me to do for
          her" ........
          >
          > widgie has been a part of my llife for sometime now and i can feel
          so much
          > sympathy for her and it hurts me too.....i don't know if i have
          hellped any
          > but i hope that i have.....i'll light a special candle for you and
          widgie
          > tonite and we'll say some special prayers for her to recover and
          for her
          > mommy too.
          >
          > linda and the boys
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: zellene.sandler@p...
          > [mailto:zellene.sandler@p...]
          > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:49 AM
          > To: feline-heart@y...
          > Subject: [feline-heart] Feeling Down
          >
          >
          > Okay, it works through the website...hope this isn't repeated two
          > more times that I tried to send via email.
          >
          > I had a bad night last night. Widgie seems so weak and tired. I had
          > to give an extra 1/2 Lasix because her cough sounded wetter last
          > night. She doesn't seem to want much affection...so unlike her
          former
          > self. It just hurts me to see her like this. But heart rate was okay
          > and even resp rate was okay.
          >
          > This morning she was on the bed. I cuddled her a little and she
          > purred a little and licked my hand. She ate okay and then went in
          the
          > bureau drawer to sleep for the day. She's started having a little
          > trouble jumping up to the chair next to the dresser. She seems very
          > weak. I just look into her eyes and she is saying to me she's tired,
          > very tired.
          >
          > I just don't know what to do. My internal med vet is gone this week.
          > Could it be low potassium? It was normal a couple weeks ago. For
          > those of you using Lasix, does your vet give potassium supps? I am
          > afraid to switch to the dandelion.
          >
          > So many of you say your cats have energy...why is Widgie like this?
          > She is on a really low dose of heart meds so I don't think that's
          the
          > cause. I really need some support today.
          >
          > z
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • gea@alumni.duke.edu
          Hi, Z., I m sorry you re discouraged. :( Our vet didn t recommend any potassium supps with the lasix, but last time we checked Malcolm s potassium was OK. How
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 3, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi, Z.,

            I'm sorry you're discouraged. :(

            Our vet didn't recommend any potassium supps with the lasix, but last
            time we checked Malcolm's potassium was OK. How was Widgie's last
            check?

            Don't know if I have much else to offer, but I will say a prayer for
            you two today. Hang in there!

            Gail & Malcolm
          • Lynna
            Linda and Z, So I am NOT the only person who feels down. I am so down I can t believe it. sabrina doesn t move around much at all. We carry her. She can go
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 3, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              Linda and Z,
              So I am NOT the only person who feels down. I am so down I can't
              believe it. sabrina doesn't move around much at all. We carry her. She
              can go about 6 feet and then stops and rests. It is her heart that is
              making her tired. She has right sided failure and somehow that makes
              her tired. I don't know. I know they told me what the deal was but I
              keep forgetting how it all works. aAll I know is that each day she is
              a tiny bit weaker than the day before and this hurts watching her.
              Lynna

              --- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...> wrote:
              > hi z., i'm sorry to herre that widgie is having difficulty...i'm
              sure you
              > have done all the right things and you really can't look at the
              vet's
              > absence as a negative as i really believe that everything happens
              for the
              > best and has a reason behind it.....with lasix my vet has prescribed
              > electrolyte salts....iw onder if the difficulty moving could be
              related to
              > her being dehydreted and having muscular/joint pain....but i just
              don't
              > know....have you tried the "neck skin" hydration test??? you know
              you pull
              > up the skin on the back of their neck and if it pops right back in
              plaace
              > they are well hydrated and if it kinda stays in the pulled up
              positin it
              > means they are dehydrated...
              >
              > is their anyone else you can consult....and would you even want to
              if there
              > was? i know that i feel very reluctant to consult just any available
              > person....
              >
              > recently i had to really look into my heart about the pum and i
              thought of
              > big dom and his mom jeanne and how she took him off all the meds and
              what a
              > hard call it was for her and how she lives on pins and needles now
              every
              > minute of the day....i took pum off the enalapril and it was a hard
              decision
              > to make but i know now that i will not go any further with meds or
              > additional conventional med treatments....bec there comes a time
              when i have
              > to ask myself "who am i doing this for? him or me? is it really
              meeting my
              > need for him, to continue to have him around? or is it really what
              is best
              > for him? and his quality of life? " somebody also said here
              recently "our
              > babies are ok with death...it's us who aren't" and those words
              really
              > touched me....(sorry for being so unoriginal, i just sorta pick up
              these
              > tidbits that impact me but they are really someone else's sthoughts
              and
              > actions)....
              >
              > and now i just got back from california from visiting my
              son/grandson and
              > during that time i thought, gee, i just feel so old and tired
              compared to
              > them(the son and daughter in law) and of course next to the
              grandson, i'm
              > downnright decrepit and then i thought of my mom in houston who has
              had a
              > really difficult time recently and is saying she wants to die and
              doesn't
              > understand why she has sto go on living in her current condition
              (she has
              > pretty bad arthritis and takeds pain meds but as we know the pain is
              still
              > really there and drs seem to have an aversion to prescribing the
              real pain
              > remedies due to fear of lawsuits, etc. it's just terrible) and then
              there i
              > saw the cycle of life and how it goes around and how we try so hard
              to
              > interject our own emotions, knowledge born of need, either emotional
              or
              > physicsal and that in the end there is only so much that we can
              really do
              > bec nature will still take its course.....we fool ourselves into
              thinking
              > that we have control and we think sometimes that we do but in fact,
              in
              > reality, we are only delaying the inevitable....
              >
              > and then i thought that it is important to for me to try to take a
              step
              > forward to work on my ability to embrace that inevitability and
              rejoice in
              > the cycle of life and rejoice in the happy moments that i have here
              and now
              > with those that are important to me and whom i love and care for and
              try to
              > find the strength to support them as much as they need in their time
              of need
              > and pray that i can find that strength and the courage to make the
              right
              > decision based on their needs and not mine.....i'm going to have to
              work on
              > it alot...i'm basicaslly selfish and want the pum, my mom, my loved
              ones,
              > around me forever....i will have to pray alot and muster up every
              ounce of
              > strength....bec it's not easy....am i making any sense....
              >
              > i know that you have done everything you can for your baby and i
              think that
              > holding her and loving her and letting her know that you care for
              her is the
              > most important thing you can do...and you are doing it....you are
              making her
              > feel loved...she is eating and that is very important and maybe
              she's tired
              > and just wants to rest and know that you are there with her is
              enough for
              > her....i can only say that i think i would try to find someone to
              get an
              > opinion without traumatizing her and then look into your heart and
              try to
              > answer the question "what would widgie want me to do for her"
              ........
              >
              > widgie has been a part of my llife for sometime now and i can feel
              so much
              > sympathy for her and it hurts me too.....i don't know if i have
              hellped any
              > but i hope that i have.....i'll light a special candle for you and
              widgie
              > tonite and we'll say some special prayers for her to recover and for
              her
              > mommy too.
              >
              > linda and the boys
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: zellene.sandler@p...
              > [mailto:zellene.sandler@p...]
              > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:49 AM
              > To: feline-heart@y...
              > Subject: [feline-heart] Feeling Down
              >
              >
              > Okay, it works through the website...hope this isn't repeated two
              > more times that I tried to send via email.
              >
              > I had a bad night last night. Widgie seems so weak and tired. I had
              > to give an extra 1/2 Lasix because her cough sounded wetter last
              > night. She doesn't seem to want much affection...so unlike her
              former
              > self. It just hurts me to see her like this. But heart rate was okay
              > and even resp rate was okay.
              >
              > This morning she was on the bed. I cuddled her a little and she
              > purred a little and licked my hand. She ate okay and then went in
              the
              > bureau drawer to sleep for the day. She's started having a little
              > trouble jumping up to the chair next to the dresser. She seems very
              > weak. I just look into her eyes and she is saying to me she's tired,
              > very tired.
              >
              > I just don't know what to do. My internal med vet is gone this week.
              > Could it be low potassium? It was normal a couple weeks ago. For
              > those of you using Lasix, does your vet give potassium supps? I am
              > afraid to switch to the dandelion.
              >
              > So many of you say your cats have energy...why is Widgie like this?
              > She is on a really low dose of heart meds so I don't think that's
              the
              > cause. I really need some support today.
              >
              > z
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Mike & Linda Irrgang
              the memory that will always stay inmy mind of pum is him running down our long hallway in chile with his tail straight up in the air...just tearing down the
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 3, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                the memory that will always stay inmy mind of pum is him running down our
                long hallway in chile with his tail straight up in the air...just tearing
                down the hall....running like a crazy cat...now i have to carry him alot and
                we spend alot of time cuddling during bedtime and naptimes....i guess that's
                the positive to be found in all the negative of this illness...i think that
                pum must spend about 21 hours a day sleeping....or dozing or
                reclining...it's sad to watch him and yet he continues to bring me so much
                happiness...sometimes i feel so selfish bec i go out to do stuff and when i
                come back there he is ...jusst waiting for me to come back and be with
                him....brush him, cuddle him and i feel so awful about leaving him....it's
                like he exists only for me...he can't go outside and he so much wants
                to....it's just so sad, so sad...and i just can't think about it bec it
                would make me so depressed to think that that is the way it is all the
                time.....well, i have to try to be more zen about this altogether:
                everything happens for a reason...i don't understand the reason now and
                perhaps i never will....but i have to believe that it's for a reason....so
                much suffering in the world in so many different ways...i can't say it
                better than the person here who said it: our babies are ok with death....i
                have to keep that always in the forefront of my thoughts.....

                and think of it like this: our babies have us to love them and even in the
                worst of health circumstances what really matters and it would be same for
                us, is that once you know there is no remedy...you can comfort, love,
                support and caring folks around you.....and all of us are all that for our
                babies.....they are very unfortunate to be incurably ill but they are
                fortunate to have us and we are extremely fortunate to have them and the
                challenge they have brought into our lives is a true labor of love and i
                think of all that i have learned bec of it and how much it has enriched me
                albeit thru alot of pain and suffering....if i were in the usa, i think that
                i would dedicate myself to taking "unadoptables" into our home....they more
                than any others need the love and caring......well, i've rambled long
                enough....

                pray for our babies and pray for us to be strong to do the right things for
                them....to have the courage to do what they would want us to do for them
                even tho' they cannot talk, we can hear them.


                white lites to all and to all our angels,

                linda and the boys

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Lynna [mailto:lynnajane@...]
                Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:48 AM
                To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Feeling Down


                Linda and Z,
                So I am NOT the only person who feels down. I am so down I can't
                believe it. sabrina doesn't move around much at all. We carry her. She
                can go about 6 feet and then stops and rests. It is her heart that is
                making her tired. She has right sided failure and somehow that makes
                her tired. I don't know. I know they told me what the deal was but I
                keep forgetting how it all works. aAll I know is that each day she is
                a tiny bit weaker than the day before and this hurts watching her.
                Lynna

                --- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...> wrote:
                > hi z., i'm sorry to herre that widgie is having difficulty...i'm
                sure you
                > have done all the right things and you really can't look at the
                vet's
                > absence as a negative as i really believe that everything happens
                for the
                > best and has a reason behind it.....with lasix my vet has prescribed
                > electrolyte salts....iw onder if the difficulty moving could be
                related to
                > her being dehydreted and having muscular/joint pain....but i just
                don't
                > know....have you tried the "neck skin" hydration test??? you know
                you pull
                > up the skin on the back of their neck and if it pops right back in
                plaace
                > they are well hydrated and if it kinda stays in the pulled up
                positin it
                > means they are dehydrated...
                >
                > is their anyone else you can consult....and would you even want to
                if there
                > was? i know that i feel very reluctant to consult just any available
                > person....
                >
                > recently i had to really look into my heart about the pum and i
                thought of
                > big dom and his mom jeanne and how she took him off all the meds and
                what a
                > hard call it was for her and how she lives on pins and needles now
                every
                > minute of the day....i took pum off the enalapril and it was a hard
                decision
                > to make but i know now that i will not go any further with meds or
                > additional conventional med treatments....bec there comes a time
                when i have
                > to ask myself "who am i doing this for? him or me? is it really
                meeting my
                > need for him, to continue to have him around? or is it really what
                is best
                > for him? and his quality of life? " somebody also said here
                recently "our
                > babies are ok with death...it's us who aren't" and those words
                really
                > touched me....(sorry for being so unoriginal, i just sorta pick up
                these
                > tidbits that impact me but they are really someone else's sthoughts
                and
                > actions)....
                >
                > and now i just got back from california from visiting my
                son/grandson and
                > during that time i thought, gee, i just feel so old and tired
                compared to
                > them(the son and daughter in law) and of course next to the
                grandson, i'm
                > downnright decrepit and then i thought of my mom in houston who has
                had a
                > really difficult time recently and is saying she wants to die and
                doesn't
                > understand why she has sto go on living in her current condition
                (she has
                > pretty bad arthritis and takeds pain meds but as we know the pain is
                still
                > really there and drs seem to have an aversion to prescribing the
                real pain
                > remedies due to fear of lawsuits, etc. it's just terrible) and then
                there i
                > saw the cycle of life and how it goes around and how we try so hard
                to
                > interject our own emotions, knowledge born of need, either emotional
                or
                > physicsal and that in the end there is only so much that we can
                really do
                > bec nature will still take its course.....we fool ourselves into
                thinking
                > that we have control and we think sometimes that we do but in fact,
                in
                > reality, we are only delaying the inevitable....
                >
                > and then i thought that it is important to for me to try to take a
                step
                > forward to work on my ability to embrace that inevitability and
                rejoice in
                > the cycle of life and rejoice in the happy moments that i have here
                and now
                > with those that are important to me and whom i love and care for and
                try to
                > find the strength to support them as much as they need in their time
                of need
                > and pray that i can find that strength and the courage to make the
                right
                > decision based on their needs and not mine.....i'm going to have to
                work on
                > it alot...i'm basicaslly selfish and want the pum, my mom, my loved
                ones,
                > around me forever....i will have to pray alot and muster up every
                ounce of
                > strength....bec it's not easy....am i making any sense....
                >
                > i know that you have done everything you can for your baby and i
                think that
                > holding her and loving her and letting her know that you care for
                her is the
                > most important thing you can do...and you are doing it....you are
                making her
                > feel loved...she is eating and that is very important and maybe
                she's tired
                > and just wants to rest and know that you are there with her is
                enough for
                > her....i can only say that i think i would try to find someone to
                get an
                > opinion without traumatizing her and then look into your heart and
                try to
                > answer the question "what would widgie want me to do for her"
                ........
                >
                > widgie has been a part of my llife for sometime now and i can feel
                so much
                > sympathy for her and it hurts me too.....i don't know if i have
                hellped any
                > but i hope that i have.....i'll light a special candle for you and
                widgie
                > tonite and we'll say some special prayers for her to recover and for
                her
                > mommy too.
                >
                > linda and the boys
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: zellene.sandler@p...
                > [mailto:zellene.sandler@p...]
                > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:49 AM
                > To: feline-heart@y...
                > Subject: [feline-heart] Feeling Down
                >
                >
                > Okay, it works through the website...hope this isn't repeated two
                > more times that I tried to send via email.
                >
                > I had a bad night last night. Widgie seems so weak and tired. I had
                > to give an extra 1/2 Lasix because her cough sounded wetter last
                > night. She doesn't seem to want much affection...so unlike her
                former
                > self. It just hurts me to see her like this. But heart rate was okay
                > and even resp rate was okay.
                >
                > This morning she was on the bed. I cuddled her a little and she
                > purred a little and licked my hand. She ate okay and then went in
                the
                > bureau drawer to sleep for the day. She's started having a little
                > trouble jumping up to the chair next to the dresser. She seems very
                > weak. I just look into her eyes and she is saying to me she's tired,
                > very tired.
                >
                > I just don't know what to do. My internal med vet is gone this week.
                > Could it be low potassium? It was normal a couple weeks ago. For
                > those of you using Lasix, does your vet give potassium supps? I am
                > afraid to switch to the dandelion.
                >
                > So many of you say your cats have energy...why is Widgie like this?
                > She is on a really low dose of heart meds so I don't think that's
                the
                > cause. I really need some support today.
                >
                > z
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                dear jeanne, thx for saying it all so eloquently...i just babble and ramble....but you and dom have given me the courage to face the inevitable for pum and
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 3, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  dear jeanne, thx for saying it all so eloquently...i just babble and
                  ramble....but you and dom have given me the courage to face the inevitable
                  for pum and everything you say is right for pum, yes, i want him here
                  forever, i want him there with me when it's my time....and he will be
                  .....just not "here" but waiting for me running like a mad cat tail up in
                  the air, making fun of my inability to keep up with him, i know he
                  will....he's just like that!

                  thx for saying it all so right and for giving me the spark of courage that i
                  needed to do it...oh gosh, here i am bawling into the keyboard...it's the
                  hardest thing i've ever had to do!

                  i don't know if this is the right venue but pls accept my sincerest
                  condolences on the passing of your dad. it sounds like he had a good life
                  and was ready to accept the natural passing of time. again, you give me
                  courage.

                  linda

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: flyerfan@... [mailto:flyerfan@...]
                  Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:35 AM
                  To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Feeling Down


                  Well, since I am the 1 that took Dom off of all of the heart meds due
                  to all of the problems in March, I sure will say that Linda knows me
                  well. I was a nervous wreck for awhile just waiting for Dom to do
                  something negative! We have now hit the 5 month mark and Dom is still
                  going strong. He is still getting his hot spots and may need another
                  nasty depo shot again. I see a small spot that I am treating with a
                  topical as we try to avoid the steroids since they are bad for the
                  heart too. My point in all of this is to back up Lindas comments. Of
                  course the asthma may need the depo too soon so it is a wait and see.

                  We were truly blessed with Doms picking us to be his family for
                  whatever time that he has left. So far, he is still much better off
                  of the meds than when he was when drugged. This is just this cats
                  inability to metabolize meds into his system properly plus even a
                  slight food change causes him problems--he is very sensitive. But in
                  March, we decided that this is terminal and we would not traumatize
                  him any longer. When he starts to slow down where he is looking
                  tired, not eating etc., we will PTS as it is the thing to do for Dom.
                  I want him with me forever, but not at Doms expense! I can really
                  describe this right now because I had an 84 year old father that was
                  in the hospital. He aspirated vomit and ended up with aspiration
                  pneumonia and I found him in ICU on a ventilator when I got there
                  after they called me. He spent 1 week in this condition and he just
                  wasn't handling it. He was dependent on the ventilator for 100% of
                  his oxygen and was fighting the vent so he needed to be totally
                  sedated 24/7. After 7 days and no improvement, I was told there was
                  probably permanent lung damage and he may never get off of the vent.
                  He also needed 2 hip replacements, needed prostrate surgery, had a
                  bad liver and now couldn't breathe. I asked to have him removed from
                  the life support as I know this wasn't dads wishes. He never even
                  wanted to go to a nursing home so I knew this would not be acceptable
                  to him. If making Doms decision was tough, let's just say this 1 was
                  tougher. He passed away on Wednesday morning but again I knew this
                  was the right thing to do for him. Keeping him here was just going to
                  be for me, not for him. I look at Dom in the same way as my dad and I
                  will make the same decision quickly when the time comes for him. It
                  doesn't make it easy but for me, I do know that what I do is the
                  correct thing for the other person. I can live with that! Dom will
                  probably slow down and sleep lots etc. and that will be fine and I
                  will allow him to do this his own way. I will intervene when he shows
                  any signs of suffering or he really lets me know that he has had
                  enough. I feel sure that I will know by observing and talking to him.
                  For Dom, not eating will be a sign as he loves his "foodies"! I had
                  to PTS another cat, Snickers about 9 years ago and she told me when
                  it was the time. For me the "Quality of Life" is the most important
                  thing.

                  Good luck Linda in coming to acceptance of this way of thinking.
                  After fighting for so long it is hard because you want to do more
                  and more, find new vets, new doctors, new meds etc. but sometimes
                  just accepting the inevitable may be the kindest thing for our loved
                  ones (both humans and pets). Just my opinion of course!!

                  Jeanne, Dom, Bono & Louie


                  --- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...> wrote:
                  > hi z., i'm sorry to herre that widgie is having difficulty...i'm
                  sure you
                  > have done all the right things and you really can't look at the
                  vet's
                  > absence as a negative as i really believe that everything happens
                  for the
                  > best and has a reason behind it.....with lasix my vet has prescribed
                  > electrolyte salts....iw onder if the difficulty moving could be
                  related to
                  > her being dehydreted and having muscular/joint pain....but i just
                  don't
                  > know....have you tried the "neck skin" hydration test??? you know
                  you pull
                  > up the skin on the back of their neck and if it pops right back in
                  plaace
                  > they are well hydrated and if it kinda stays in the pulled up
                  positin it
                  > means they are dehydrated...
                  >
                  > is their anyone else you can consult....and would you even want to
                  if there
                  > was? i know that i feel very reluctant to consult just any available
                  > person....
                  >
                  > recently i had to really look into my heart about the pum and i
                  thought of
                  > big dom and his mom jeanne and how she took him off all the meds
                  and what a
                  > hard call it was for her and how she lives on pins and needles now
                  every
                  > minute of the day....i took pum off the enalapril and it was a hard
                  decision
                  > to make but i know now that i will not go any further with meds or
                  > additional conventional med treatments....bec there comes a time
                  when i have
                  > to ask myself "who am i doing this for? him or me? is it really
                  meeting my
                  > need for him, to continue to have him around? or is it really what
                  is best
                  > for him? and his quality of life? " somebody also said here
                  recently "our
                  > babies are ok with death...it's us who aren't" and those words
                  really
                  > touched me....(sorry for being so unoriginal, i just sorta pick up
                  these
                  > tidbits that impact me but they are really someone else's sthoughts
                  and
                  > actions)....
                  >
                  > and now i just got back from california from visiting my
                  son/grandson and
                  > during that time i thought, gee, i just feel so old and tired
                  compared to
                  > them(the son and daughter in law) and of course next to the
                  grandson, i'm
                  > downnright decrepit and then i thought of my mom in houston who has
                  had a
                  > really difficult time recently and is saying she wants to die and
                  doesn't
                  > understand why she has sto go on living in her current condition
                  (she has
                  > pretty bad arthritis and takeds pain meds but as we know the pain
                  is still
                  > really there and drs seem to have an aversion to prescribing the
                  real pain
                  > remedies due to fear of lawsuits, etc. it's just terrible) and then
                  there i
                  > saw the cycle of life and how it goes around and how we try so hard
                  to
                  > interject our own emotions, knowledge born of need, either
                  emotional or
                  > physicsal and that in the end there is only so much that we can
                  really do
                  > bec nature will still take its course.....we fool ourselves into
                  thinking
                  > that we have control and we think sometimes that we do but in fact,
                  in
                  > reality, we are only delaying the inevitable....
                  >
                  > and then i thought that it is important to for me to try to take a
                  step
                  > forward to work on my ability to embrace that inevitability and
                  rejoice in
                  > the cycle of life and rejoice in the happy moments that i have here
                  and now
                  > with those that are important to me and whom i love and care for
                  and try to
                  > find the strength to support them as much as they need in their
                  time of need
                  > and pray that i can find that strength and the courage to make the
                  right
                  > decision based on their needs and not mine.....i'm going to have to
                  work on
                  > it alot...i'm basicaslly selfish and want the pum, my mom, my loved
                  ones,
                  > around me forever....i will have to pray alot and muster up every
                  ounce of
                  > strength....bec it's not easy....am i making any sense....
                  >
                  > i know that you have done everything you can for your baby and i
                  think that
                  > holding her and loving her and letting her know that you care for
                  her is the
                  > most important thing you can do...and you are doing it....you are
                  making her
                  > feel loved...she is eating and that is very important and maybe
                  she's tired
                  > and just wants to rest and know that you are there with her is
                  enough for
                  > her....i can only say that i think i would try to find someone to
                  get an
                  > opinion without traumatizing her and then look into your heart and
                  try to
                  > answer the question "what would widgie want me to do for
                  her" ........
                  >
                  > widgie has been a part of my llife for sometime now and i can feel
                  so much
                  > sympathy for her and it hurts me too.....i don't know if i have
                  hellped any
                  > but i hope that i have.....i'll light a special candle for you and
                  widgie
                  > tonite and we'll say some special prayers for her to recover and
                  for her
                  > mommy too.
                  >
                  > linda and the boys
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: zellene.sandler@p...
                  > [mailto:zellene.sandler@p...]
                  > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:49 AM
                  > To: feline-heart@y...
                  > Subject: [feline-heart] Feeling Down
                  >
                  >
                  > Okay, it works through the website...hope this isn't repeated two
                  > more times that I tried to send via email.
                  >
                  > I had a bad night last night. Widgie seems so weak and tired. I had
                  > to give an extra 1/2 Lasix because her cough sounded wetter last
                  > night. She doesn't seem to want much affection...so unlike her
                  former
                  > self. It just hurts me to see her like this. But heart rate was okay
                  > and even resp rate was okay.
                  >
                  > This morning she was on the bed. I cuddled her a little and she
                  > purred a little and licked my hand. She ate okay and then went in
                  the
                  > bureau drawer to sleep for the day. She's started having a little
                  > trouble jumping up to the chair next to the dresser. She seems very
                  > weak. I just look into her eyes and she is saying to me she's tired,
                  > very tired.
                  >
                  > I just don't know what to do. My internal med vet is gone this week.
                  > Could it be low potassium? It was normal a couple weeks ago. For
                  > those of you using Lasix, does your vet give potassium supps? I am
                  > afraid to switch to the dandelion.
                  >
                  > So many of you say your cats have energy...why is Widgie like this?
                  > She is on a really low dose of heart meds so I don't think that's
                  the
                  > cause. I really need some support today.
                  >
                  > z
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com



                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Voula
                  Dear Linda, I have so enjoyed and found comfort in your recent posts. The other day I saw Pebbles in my mind soaring through the air chasing a bird. When she
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 3, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Linda,
                    I have so enjoyed and found comfort in your recent posts. The other day
                    I saw Pebbles in my mind soaring through the air chasing a bird. When she
                    was young I stayed at my father's house for a month and our old cat Ginger
                    was still alive then. My father saw Pebbles leap through the air and he
                    looked at Ginger and sighed and said, "Ginger could do that once. Pebbles is
                    young. A new and young life....." I have tears in my eyes now writing this
                    and remembering this moment.....
                    I miss my girls.
                    Love, Voula.
                  • flyerfan@blazenet.net
                    Linda, Here s hoping that Pum and Dom can both stay on top of this nasty problem for awhile longer. I sometimes think when I am calm and feeling comfortable
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 3, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Linda,

                      Here's hoping that Pum and Dom can both stay on top of this nasty
                      problem for awhile longer. I sometimes think when I am calm and
                      feeling comfortable with what is happening that Dom senses it and is
                      more relaxed too. (Well, as calm as Dom can get! LOL) He is lying
                      beside my laptop playfully biting at my fingers as I type this and I
                      think he wants more undivided attention. Spoiled cat!

                      Thanks for the kind words on dad. He was very lucky to live to be 84
                      and he is now at peace.

                      We will be here for you and I know I will be looking for your advice
                      the next time that Dom looks a "bit odd". I wish all of our kitties
                      could go through some prolonged good periods to give us
                      worrrying "meowmies" the break that we need to recharge. We all just
                      love them too much if that is possible.

                      TTYL,
                      Jeanne, Dom, Bono & Louie


                      --- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...> wrote:
                      > dear jeanne, thx for saying it all so eloquently...i just babble and
                      > ramble....but you and dom have given me the courage to face the
                      inevitable
                      > for pum and everything you say is right for pum, yes, i want him
                      here
                      > forever, i want him there with me when it's my time....and he will
                      be
                      > .....just not "here" but waiting for me running like a mad cat tail
                      up in
                      > the air, making fun of my inability to keep up with him, i know he
                      > will....he's just like that!
                      >
                      > thx for saying it all so right and for giving me the spark of
                      courage that i
                      > needed to do it...oh gosh, here i am bawling into the
                      keyboard...it's the
                      > hardest thing i've ever had to do!
                      >
                      > i don't know if this is the right venue but pls accept my sincerest
                      > condolences on the passing of your dad. it sounds like he had a
                      good life
                      > and was ready to accept the natural passing of time. again, you
                      give me
                      > courage.
                      >
                      > linda
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: flyerfan@b... [mailto:flyerfan@b...]
                      > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:35 AM
                      > To: feline-heart@y...
                      > Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Feeling Down
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, since I am the 1 that took Dom off of all of the heart meds
                      due
                      > to all of the problems in March, I sure will say that Linda knows me
                      > well. I was a nervous wreck for awhile just waiting for Dom to do
                      > something negative! We have now hit the 5 month mark and Dom is
                      still
                      > going strong. He is still getting his hot spots and may need another
                      > nasty depo shot again. I see a small spot that I am treating with a
                      > topical as we try to avoid the steroids since they are bad for the
                      > heart too. My point in all of this is to back up Lindas comments. Of
                      > course the asthma may need the depo too soon so it is a wait and
                      see.
                      >
                      > We were truly blessed with Doms picking us to be his family for
                      > whatever time that he has left. So far, he is still much better off
                      > of the meds than when he was when drugged. This is just this cats
                      > inability to metabolize meds into his system properly plus even a
                      > slight food change causes him problems--he is very sensitive. But in
                      > March, we decided that this is terminal and we would not traumatize
                      > him any longer. When he starts to slow down where he is looking
                      > tired, not eating etc., we will PTS as it is the thing to do for
                      Dom.
                      > I want him with me forever, but not at Doms expense! I can really
                      > describe this right now because I had an 84 year old father that was
                      > in the hospital. He aspirated vomit and ended up with aspiration
                      > pneumonia and I found him in ICU on a ventilator when I got there
                      > after they called me. He spent 1 week in this condition and he just
                      > wasn't handling it. He was dependent on the ventilator for 100% of
                      > his oxygen and was fighting the vent so he needed to be totally
                      > sedated 24/7. After 7 days and no improvement, I was told there was
                      > probably permanent lung damage and he may never get off of the vent.
                      > He also needed 2 hip replacements, needed prostrate surgery, had a
                      > bad liver and now couldn't breathe. I asked to have him removed from
                      > the life support as I know this wasn't dads wishes. He never even
                      > wanted to go to a nursing home so I knew this would not be
                      acceptable
                      > to him. If making Doms decision was tough, let's just say this 1 was
                      > tougher. He passed away on Wednesday morning but again I knew this
                      > was the right thing to do for him. Keeping him here was just going
                      to
                      > be for me, not for him. I look at Dom in the same way as my dad and
                      I
                      > will make the same decision quickly when the time comes for him. It
                      > doesn't make it easy but for me, I do know that what I do is the
                      > correct thing for the other person. I can live with that! Dom will
                      > probably slow down and sleep lots etc. and that will be fine and I
                      > will allow him to do this his own way. I will intervene when he
                      shows
                      > any signs of suffering or he really lets me know that he has had
                      > enough. I feel sure that I will know by observing and talking to
                      him.
                      > For Dom, not eating will be a sign as he loves his "foodies"! I had
                      > to PTS another cat, Snickers about 9 years ago and she told me when
                      > it was the time. For me the "Quality of Life" is the most important
                      > thing.
                      >
                      > Good luck Linda in coming to acceptance of this way of thinking.
                      > After fighting for so long it is hard because you want to do more
                      > and more, find new vets, new doctors, new meds etc. but sometimes
                      > just accepting the inevitable may be the kindest thing for our loved
                      > ones (both humans and pets). Just my opinion of course!!
                      >
                      > Jeanne, Dom, Bono & Louie
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...>
                      wrote:
                      > > hi z., i'm sorry to herre that widgie is having difficulty...i'm
                      > sure you
                      > > have done all the right things and you really can't look at the
                      > vet's
                      > > absence as a negative as i really believe that everything happens
                      > for the
                      > > best and has a reason behind it.....with lasix my vet has
                      prescribed
                      > > electrolyte salts....iw onder if the difficulty moving could be
                      > related to
                      > > her being dehydreted and having muscular/joint pain....but i just
                      > don't
                      > > know....have you tried the "neck skin" hydration test??? you know
                      > you pull
                      > > up the skin on the back of their neck and if it pops right back in
                      > plaace
                      > > they are well hydrated and if it kinda stays in the pulled up
                      > positin it
                      > > means they are dehydrated...
                      > >
                      > > is their anyone else you can consult....and would you even want to
                      > if there
                      > > was? i know that i feel very reluctant to consult just any
                      available
                      > > person....
                      > >
                      > > recently i had to really look into my heart about the pum and i
                      > thought of
                      > > big dom and his mom jeanne and how she took him off all the meds
                      > and what a
                      > > hard call it was for her and how she lives on pins and needles now
                      > every
                      > > minute of the day....i took pum off the enalapril and it was a
                      hard
                      > decision
                      > > to make but i know now that i will not go any further with meds or
                      > > additional conventional med treatments....bec there comes a time
                      > when i have
                      > > to ask myself "who am i doing this for? him or me? is it really
                      > meeting my
                      > > need for him, to continue to have him around? or is it really what
                      > is best
                      > > for him? and his quality of life? " somebody also said here
                      > recently "our
                      > > babies are ok with death...it's us who aren't" and those words
                      > really
                      > > touched me....(sorry for being so unoriginal, i just sorta pick up
                      > these
                      > > tidbits that impact me but they are really someone else's
                      sthoughts
                      > and
                      > > actions)....
                      > >
                      > > and now i just got back from california from visiting my
                      > son/grandson and
                      > > during that time i thought, gee, i just feel so old and tired
                      > compared to
                      > > them(the son and daughter in law) and of course next to the
                      > grandson, i'm
                      > > downnright decrepit and then i thought of my mom in houston who
                      has
                      > had a
                      > > really difficult time recently and is saying she wants to die and
                      > doesn't
                      > > understand why she has sto go on living in her current condition
                      > (she has
                      > > pretty bad arthritis and takeds pain meds but as we know the pain
                      > is still
                      > > really there and drs seem to have an aversion to prescribing the
                      > real pain
                      > > remedies due to fear of lawsuits, etc. it's just terrible) and
                      then
                      > there i
                      > > saw the cycle of life and how it goes around and how we try so
                      hard
                      > to
                      > > interject our own emotions, knowledge born of need, either
                      > emotional or
                      > > physicsal and that in the end there is only so much that we can
                      > really do
                      > > bec nature will still take its course.....we fool ourselves into
                      > thinking
                      > > that we have control and we think sometimes that we do but in
                      fact,
                      > in
                      > > reality, we are only delaying the inevitable....
                      > >
                      > > and then i thought that it is important to for me to try to take a
                      > step
                      > > forward to work on my ability to embrace that inevitability and
                      > rejoice in
                      > > the cycle of life and rejoice in the happy moments that i have
                      here
                      > and now
                      > > with those that are important to me and whom i love and care for
                      > and try to
                      > > find the strength to support them as much as they need in their
                      > time of need
                      > > and pray that i can find that strength and the courage to make the
                      > right
                      > > decision based on their needs and not mine.....i'm going to have
                      to
                      > work on
                      > > it alot...i'm basicaslly selfish and want the pum, my mom, my
                      loved
                      > ones,
                      > > around me forever....i will have to pray alot and muster up every
                      > ounce of
                      > > strength....bec it's not easy....am i making any sense....
                      > >
                      > > i know that you have done everything you can for your baby and i
                      > think that
                      > > holding her and loving her and letting her know that you care for
                      > her is the
                      > > most important thing you can do...and you are doing it....you are
                      > making her
                      > > feel loved...she is eating and that is very important and maybe
                      > she's tired
                      > > and just wants to rest and know that you are there with her is
                      > enough for
                      > > her....i can only say that i think i would try to find someone to
                      > get an
                      > > opinion without traumatizing her and then look into your heart and
                      > try to
                      > > answer the question "what would widgie want me to do for
                      > her" ........
                      > >
                      > > widgie has been a part of my llife for sometime now and i can feel
                      > so much
                      > > sympathy for her and it hurts me too.....i don't know if i have
                      > hellped any
                      > > but i hope that i have.....i'll light a special candle for you and
                      > widgie
                      > > tonite and we'll say some special prayers for her to recover and
                      > for her
                      > > mommy too.
                      > >
                      > > linda and the boys
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: zellene.sandler@p...
                      > > [mailto:zellene.sandler@p...]
                      > > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:49 AM
                      > > To: feline-heart@y...
                      > > Subject: [feline-heart] Feeling Down
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Okay, it works through the website...hope this isn't repeated two
                      > > more times that I tried to send via email.
                      > >
                      > > I had a bad night last night. Widgie seems so weak and tired. I
                      had
                      > > to give an extra 1/2 Lasix because her cough sounded wetter last
                      > > night. She doesn't seem to want much affection...so unlike her
                      > former
                      > > self. It just hurts me to see her like this. But heart rate was
                      okay
                      > > and even resp rate was okay.
                      > >
                      > > This morning she was on the bed. I cuddled her a little and she
                      > > purred a little and licked my hand. She ate okay and then went in
                      > the
                      > > bureau drawer to sleep for the day. She's started having a little
                      > > trouble jumping up to the chair next to the dresser. She seems
                      very
                      > > weak. I just look into her eyes and she is saying to me she's
                      tired,
                      > > very tired.
                      > >
                      > > I just don't know what to do. My internal med vet is gone this
                      week.
                      > > Could it be low potassium? It was normal a couple weeks ago. For
                      > > those of you using Lasix, does your vet give potassium supps? I
                      am
                      > > afraid to switch to the dandelion.
                      > >
                      > > So many of you say your cats have energy...why is Widgie like
                      this?
                      > > She is on a really low dose of heart meds so I don't think that's
                      > the
                      > > cause. I really need some support today.
                      > >
                      > > z
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • peggy baldwin
                      ... Hi Voula, I know how these moments in the past make you feel. You had Pebbles for 17 years just like I had my Angel Fred .Pebbles was a big part of your
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 4, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- Voula <catwoman1@...> wrote:
                        > Dear Linda,
                        > I have so enjoyed and found comfort in your
                        > recent posts. The other day
                        > I saw Pebbles in my mind soaring through the air
                        > chasing a bird. When she
                        > was young I stayed at my father's house for a month
                        > and our old cat Ginger
                        > was still alive then. My father saw Pebbles leap
                        > through the air and he
                        > looked at Ginger and sighed and said, "Ginger could
                        > do that once. Pebbles is
                        > young. A new and young life....." I have tears in my
                        > eyes now writing this
                        > and remembering this moment.....
                        > I miss my girls.
                        > Love, Voula.

                        Hi Voula,
                        I know how these moments in the past make you feel.
                        You had Pebbles for 17 years just like I had my Angel
                        Fred .Pebbles was a big part of your life and very
                        special to you.No matter how many cats you take in
                        Pebbles will always be in your heart.
                        PEGGY
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        __________________________________________________
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                      • Voula
                        Thank you Peggy, Fred and Pebbles were certainly fighters that is for sure. They both fooled the vets for a long time. Yes I do miss my Pebbles, as I know you
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 4, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thank you Peggy,
                          Fred and Pebbles were certainly fighters that is for sure. They both
                          fooled the vets for a long time. Yes I do miss my Pebbles, as I know you
                          miss Fred and how special he was to you. You are right Peggy, no matter how
                          many cats I have, my Pebbles will always have her own place in my heart. She
                          was and always will be the Queen of all my cats because she was my first cat
                          of my own, and because she simply was the Queen, and that is that! (smile!)
                          Love, Voula.

                          > Hi Voula,
                          > I know how these moments in the past make you feel.
                          > You had Pebbles for 17 years just like I had my Angel
                          >Fred .Pebbles was a big part of your life and very
                          >special to you.No matter how many cats you take in
                          >Pebbles will always be in your heart.
                          > PEGGY
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >__________________________________________________
                          >Do You Yahoo!?
                          >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
                          >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
                          >
                          >
                          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                        • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                          hi jeanne, yes, i know what you mean about a recharge....pum seems to be doing ok these days...he seems to be recovering from the enalapril toxicity problem on
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 5, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            hi jeanne,

                            yes, i know what you mean about a recharge....pum seems to be doing ok these
                            days...he seems to be recovering from the enalapril toxicity problem on his
                            kidney functions....thx to the person on this site who said i had to
                            checkthe creat levels etc also otherwise i'd be going about my happy
                            ignorant state administering the enalapril every night...poor pum....

                            well, i am going to try to enjy the moments of repreive ethat i have at the
                            moment to give myself a stress rest and to give the pum the much un-needed
                            additional attetntion that he is requesting....that cat gets more attetnion
                            than everyone else in our entire family combined!!!

                            have a nice sunday! and thx again for all the support, kindnesses and words
                            of encouragement you send our way!


                            hugs,
                            linda and the boys

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: flyerfan@... [mailto:flyerfan@...]
                            Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:40 PM
                            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Feeling Down


                            Linda,

                            Here's hoping that Pum and Dom can both stay on top of this nasty
                            problem for awhile longer. I sometimes think when I am calm and
                            feeling comfortable with what is happening that Dom senses it and is
                            more relaxed too. (Well, as calm as Dom can get! LOL) He is lying
                            beside my laptop playfully biting at my fingers as I type this and I
                            think he wants more undivided attention. Spoiled cat!

                            Thanks for the kind words on dad. He was very lucky to live to be 84
                            and he is now at peace.

                            We will be here for you and I know I will be looking for your advice
                            the next time that Dom looks a "bit odd". I wish all of our kitties
                            could go through some prolonged good periods to give us
                            worrrying "meowmies" the break that we need to recharge. We all just
                            love them too much if that is possible.

                            TTYL,
                            Jeanne, Dom, Bono & Louie


                            --- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...> wrote:
                            > dear jeanne, thx for saying it all so eloquently...i just babble and
                            > ramble....but you and dom have given me the courage to face the
                            inevitable
                            > for pum and everything you say is right for pum, yes, i want him
                            here
                            > forever, i want him there with me when it's my time....and he will
                            be
                            > .....just not "here" but waiting for me running like a mad cat tail
                            up in
                            > the air, making fun of my inability to keep up with him, i know he
                            > will....he's just like that!
                            >
                            > thx for saying it all so right and for giving me the spark of
                            courage that i
                            > needed to do it...oh gosh, here i am bawling into the
                            keyboard...it's the
                            > hardest thing i've ever had to do!
                            >
                            > i don't know if this is the right venue but pls accept my sincerest
                            > condolences on the passing of your dad. it sounds like he had a
                            good life
                            > and was ready to accept the natural passing of time. again, you
                            give me
                            > courage.
                            >
                            > linda
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: flyerfan@b... [mailto:flyerfan@b...]
                            > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:35 AM
                            > To: feline-heart@y...
                            > Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Feeling Down
                            >
                            >
                            > Well, since I am the 1 that took Dom off of all of the heart meds
                            due
                            > to all of the problems in March, I sure will say that Linda knows me
                            > well. I was a nervous wreck for awhile just waiting for Dom to do
                            > something negative! We have now hit the 5 month mark and Dom is
                            still
                            > going strong. He is still getting his hot spots and may need another
                            > nasty depo shot again. I see a small spot that I am treating with a
                            > topical as we try to avoid the steroids since they are bad for the
                            > heart too. My point in all of this is to back up Lindas comments. Of
                            > course the asthma may need the depo too soon so it is a wait and
                            see.
                            >
                            > We were truly blessed with Doms picking us to be his family for
                            > whatever time that he has left. So far, he is still much better off
                            > of the meds than when he was when drugged. This is just this cats
                            > inability to metabolize meds into his system properly plus even a
                            > slight food change causes him problems--he is very sensitive. But in
                            > March, we decided that this is terminal and we would not traumatize
                            > him any longer. When he starts to slow down where he is looking
                            > tired, not eating etc., we will PTS as it is the thing to do for
                            Dom.
                            > I want him with me forever, but not at Doms expense! I can really
                            > describe this right now because I had an 84 year old father that was
                            > in the hospital. He aspirated vomit and ended up with aspiration
                            > pneumonia and I found him in ICU on a ventilator when I got there
                            > after they called me. He spent 1 week in this condition and he just
                            > wasn't handling it. He was dependent on the ventilator for 100% of
                            > his oxygen and was fighting the vent so he needed to be totally
                            > sedated 24/7. After 7 days and no improvement, I was told there was
                            > probably permanent lung damage and he may never get off of the vent.
                            > He also needed 2 hip replacements, needed prostrate surgery, had a
                            > bad liver and now couldn't breathe. I asked to have him removed from
                            > the life support as I know this wasn't dads wishes. He never even
                            > wanted to go to a nursing home so I knew this would not be
                            acceptable
                            > to him. If making Doms decision was tough, let's just say this 1 was
                            > tougher. He passed away on Wednesday morning but again I knew this
                            > was the right thing to do for him. Keeping him here was just going
                            to
                            > be for me, not for him. I look at Dom in the same way as my dad and
                            I
                            > will make the same decision quickly when the time comes for him. It
                            > doesn't make it easy but for me, I do know that what I do is the
                            > correct thing for the other person. I can live with that! Dom will
                            > probably slow down and sleep lots etc. and that will be fine and I
                            > will allow him to do this his own way. I will intervene when he
                            shows
                            > any signs of suffering or he really lets me know that he has had
                            > enough. I feel sure that I will know by observing and talking to
                            him.
                            > For Dom, not eating will be a sign as he loves his "foodies"! I had
                            > to PTS another cat, Snickers about 9 years ago and she told me when
                            > it was the time. For me the "Quality of Life" is the most important
                            > thing.
                            >
                            > Good luck Linda in coming to acceptance of this way of thinking.
                            > After fighting for so long it is hard because you want to do more
                            > and more, find new vets, new doctors, new meds etc. but sometimes
                            > just accepting the inevitable may be the kindest thing for our loved
                            > ones (both humans and pets). Just my opinion of course!!
                            >
                            > Jeanne, Dom, Bono & Louie
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...>
                            wrote:
                            > > hi z., i'm sorry to herre that widgie is having difficulty...i'm
                            > sure you
                            > > have done all the right things and you really can't look at the
                            > vet's
                            > > absence as a negative as i really believe that everything happens
                            > for the
                            > > best and has a reason behind it.....with lasix my vet has
                            prescribed
                            > > electrolyte salts....iw onder if the difficulty moving could be
                            > related to
                            > > her being dehydreted and having muscular/joint pain....but i just
                            > don't
                            > > know....have you tried the "neck skin" hydration test??? you know
                            > you pull
                            > > up the skin on the back of their neck and if it pops right back in
                            > plaace
                            > > they are well hydrated and if it kinda stays in the pulled up
                            > positin it
                            > > means they are dehydrated...
                            > >
                            > > is their anyone else you can consult....and would you even want to
                            > if there
                            > > was? i know that i feel very reluctant to consult just any
                            available
                            > > person....
                            > >
                            > > recently i had to really look into my heart about the pum and i
                            > thought of
                            > > big dom and his mom jeanne and how she took him off all the meds
                            > and what a
                            > > hard call it was for her and how she lives on pins and needles now
                            > every
                            > > minute of the day....i took pum off the enalapril and it was a
                            hard
                            > decision
                            > > to make but i know now that i will not go any further with meds or
                            > > additional conventional med treatments....bec there comes a time
                            > when i have
                            > > to ask myself "who am i doing this for? him or me? is it really
                            > meeting my
                            > > need for him, to continue to have him around? or is it really what
                            > is best
                            > > for him? and his quality of life? " somebody also said here
                            > recently "our
                            > > babies are ok with death...it's us who aren't" and those words
                            > really
                            > > touched me....(sorry for being so unoriginal, i just sorta pick up
                            > these
                            > > tidbits that impact me but they are really someone else's
                            sthoughts
                            > and
                            > > actions)....
                            > >
                            > > and now i just got back from california from visiting my
                            > son/grandson and
                            > > during that time i thought, gee, i just feel so old and tired
                            > compared to
                            > > them(the son and daughter in law) and of course next to the
                            > grandson, i'm
                            > > downnright decrepit and then i thought of my mom in houston who
                            has
                            > had a
                            > > really difficult time recently and is saying she wants to die and
                            > doesn't
                            > > understand why she has sto go on living in her current condition
                            > (she has
                            > > pretty bad arthritis and takeds pain meds but as we know the pain
                            > is still
                            > > really there and drs seem to have an aversion to prescribing the
                            > real pain
                            > > remedies due to fear of lawsuits, etc. it's just terrible) and
                            then
                            > there i
                            > > saw the cycle of life and how it goes around and how we try so
                            hard
                            > to
                            > > interject our own emotions, knowledge born of need, either
                            > emotional or
                            > > physicsal and that in the end there is only so much that we can
                            > really do
                            > > bec nature will still take its course.....we fool ourselves into
                            > thinking
                            > > that we have control and we think sometimes that we do but in
                            fact,
                            > in
                            > > reality, we are only delaying the inevitable....
                            > >
                            > > and then i thought that it is important to for me to try to take a
                            > step
                            > > forward to work on my ability to embrace that inevitability and
                            > rejoice in
                            > > the cycle of life and rejoice in the happy moments that i have
                            here
                            > and now
                            > > with those that are important to me and whom i love and care for
                            > and try to
                            > > find the strength to support them as much as they need in their
                            > time of need
                            > > and pray that i can find that strength and the courage to make the
                            > right
                            > > decision based on their needs and not mine.....i'm going to have
                            to
                            > work on
                            > > it alot...i'm basicaslly selfish and want the pum, my mom, my
                            loved
                            > ones,
                            > > around me forever....i will have to pray alot and muster up every
                            > ounce of
                            > > strength....bec it's not easy....am i making any sense....
                            > >
                            > > i know that you have done everything you can for your baby and i
                            > think that
                            > > holding her and loving her and letting her know that you care for
                            > her is the
                            > > most important thing you can do...and you are doing it....you are
                            > making her
                            > > feel loved...she is eating and that is very important and maybe
                            > she's tired
                            > > and just wants to rest and know that you are there with her is
                            > enough for
                            > > her....i can only say that i think i would try to find someone to
                            > get an
                            > > opinion without traumatizing her and then look into your heart and
                            > try to
                            > > answer the question "what would widgie want me to do for
                            > her" ........
                            > >
                            > > widgie has been a part of my llife for sometime now and i can feel
                            > so much
                            > > sympathy for her and it hurts me too.....i don't know if i have
                            > hellped any
                            > > but i hope that i have.....i'll light a special candle for you and
                            > widgie
                            > > tonite and we'll say some special prayers for her to recover and
                            > for her
                            > > mommy too.
                            > >
                            > > linda and the boys
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: zellene.sandler@p...
                            > > [mailto:zellene.sandler@p...]
                            > > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:49 AM
                            > > To: feline-heart@y...
                            > > Subject: [feline-heart] Feeling Down
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Okay, it works through the website...hope this isn't repeated two
                            > > more times that I tried to send via email.
                            > >
                            > > I had a bad night last night. Widgie seems so weak and tired. I
                            had
                            > > to give an extra 1/2 Lasix because her cough sounded wetter last
                            > > night. She doesn't seem to want much affection...so unlike her
                            > former
                            > > self. It just hurts me to see her like this. But heart rate was
                            okay
                            > > and even resp rate was okay.
                            > >
                            > > This morning she was on the bed. I cuddled her a little and she
                            > > purred a little and licked my hand. She ate okay and then went in
                            > the
                            > > bureau drawer to sleep for the day. She's started having a little
                            > > trouble jumping up to the chair next to the dresser. She seems
                            very
                            > > weak. I just look into her eyes and she is saying to me she's
                            tired,
                            > > very tired.
                            > >
                            > > I just don't know what to do. My internal med vet is gone this
                            week.
                            > > Could it be low potassium? It was normal a couple weeks ago. For
                            > > those of you using Lasix, does your vet give potassium supps? I
                            am
                            > > afraid to switch to the dandelion.
                            > >
                            > > So many of you say your cats have energy...why is Widgie like
                            this?
                            > > She is on a really low dose of heart meds so I don't think that's
                            > the
                            > > cause. I really need some support today.
                            > >
                            > > z
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                          • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                            but you know, like no matter how much you try to prepare, rationalize, objectivize, etc., be strong....i know that i will be an absolute wreck when pum starts
                            Message 13 of 13 , Aug 5, 2001
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                              but you know, like no matter how much you try to prepare, rationalize,
                              objectivize, etc., be strong....i know that i will be an absolute wreck when
                              pum starts the inevitable downhill slide....today i'm having a stress rest
                              and he's looking and behaving ok but it lurks in the back of my mind.....the
                              imminence of his demise is what makes it a daily stessor and hard to keep
                              spirits up.....i have to keep telling myself that we're all in a downward
                              slope once we stop anabolizing...it's just a matter of time and i have to
                              remember that "he's ok with it" it's me that isn't.....bec i want him here
                              forever with me. forever by my pillow. forever by the computer. and how
                              wonderful...just think about it....one day it will be forever and what a
                              grand day that will be!!!!

                              linda

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: peggy baldwin [mailto:chessie92@...]
                              Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 10:18 AM
                              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Re: Feeling Down



                              --- Voula <catwoman1@...> wrote:
                              > Dear Linda,
                              > I have so enjoyed and found comfort in your
                              > recent posts. The other day
                              > I saw Pebbles in my mind soaring through the air
                              > chasing a bird. When she
                              > was young I stayed at my father's house for a month
                              > and our old cat Ginger
                              > was still alive then. My father saw Pebbles leap
                              > through the air and he
                              > looked at Ginger and sighed and said, "Ginger could
                              > do that once. Pebbles is
                              > young. A new and young life....." I have tears in my
                              > eyes now writing this
                              > and remembering this moment.....
                              > I miss my girls.
                              > Love, Voula.

                              Hi Voula,
                              I know how these moments in the past make you feel.
                              You had Pebbles for 17 years just like I had my Angel
                              Fred .Pebbles was a big part of your life and very
                              special to you.No matter how many cats you take in
                              Pebbles will always be in your heart.
                              PEGGY
                              >
                              >
                              >


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