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Depression, or something more?

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  • Catherine Browning
    Hi all, It s me again, Catherine from Down Under, she of the Patch-saga. I haven t really been online much, thank you to everyone who has replied though, I
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 1, 2008
      Hi all,

      It's me again, Catherine from Down Under, she of the Patch-saga. I
      haven't really been online much, thank you to everyone who has
      replied though, I have read everything you have written and will
      reply to you all.

      But for now, I'm hoping there'll be someone here who's had the
      situation of an HCM-kitty passing, and leaving HCM-kitty-friends
      behind.

      Claude, Patch's younger brother by 30 minutes, also has congenital
      HCM. My last email here was about finding a good vet, which I hope
      to do, but of course haven't had the chance to do just yet.

      Thing is, the symptoms of heart disease, and the symptoms of
      depression, are so similar in many ways. Claude and Patch were VERY
      close - ALL of the siblings are close. For a few days, Claude has
      been looking for Patch, and if my tummy or my mum's tummy's squeak,
      he'll look to see if Patch has returned. He (Claude) was going
      outside and looking everywhere for him for the first few days.

      Today (Sunday) has been different. For a while this morning, he
      didn't want us to touch him and hid under the kitchen table, although
      it was so cold there that he was shivering. He then spent most of
      the day on my bed (it's 3.10am now, and he's still there) with the
      water bottles.

      He's been eating if we bring the food to him. Actually, this morning
      he went to the food himself - it's possible I'm coddling him a bit
      much because he hasn't since HAD to get up to eat. He's still got
      his excellent appetite, but then again, so did Patch, and before him -
      Buttons.

      His breathing is around 20/minute, which is normal for him, though
      it's faster when awake and heaps faster when he purrs (this is
      all 'normal' for him though).

      But when I picked him up to give him a cuddle, he hissed at me -
      HIGHLY unusual. What if his leg(s) are starting to hurt? His
      toenails are still pink at the quick, his feet are warm, his ears are
      cold but then it's pretty cold inside - MY ears are cold!

      How do I tell the difference between worsening heart disease, and
      depression? And will his depression worsen his heart disease anyway?

      I haven't given him Nattokinase yet, but I have bought some -
      "2000fu" per pill, whatever a "fu" is! He's never been pilled
      before and he's trying to sleep right now, but should I give him some
      Natto as a preventative? How much? Can cats be allergic to Natto?
      Am I overthinking things?

      Thank you!

      Catherine, Kitty, Claude and Tuppenny
      Topsy-Angel, Buttons-Angel, Patch-Angel
    • amanda
      Hi Catherine, No you are not over thinking, it`s very normal to be worried for those left behind. When I lost my last cat which was close to my HCM kitty, my
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 3, 2008
        Hi Catherine, No you are not over thinking, it`s very normal to be worried for those left behind. When I lost my last cat which was close to my HCM kitty, my kitty was a bit depressed, he used to always look up at the place where my other cat slept, I don`t think it effected his heart though, he had double stress at that time, because since then I decided to keep him in and only take him out on the harness, so we all had a lot of stress those first weeks, but he was o.k, that was two years ago. About the nattokinase, I think I was giving my cat the 36mg capsule, twice a day, but you don`t need to stress your cat out by pilling him with it, I used to prick the capsule and put the contents on his food, or mix it in, it`s just as effective! Here's a post concerning natto dosage http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/message/26817 Yes there is a possibility for allergic reaction, but it`s very rare because it`s an enzyme and very easy for the body to digest, Is your cat taking any medications? if not, then you can start by sqiurting a bit on his food and see how he does , Good luck! hugs and purrs Amanda and Silver chan.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Catherine Browning
        Hi Amanda, Thanks for your email. Yet another update from down under. I think depression was part of it, if not most of it, but it turns out there WAS
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 3, 2008
          Hi Amanda,

          Thanks for your email. Yet another update from down under. I think
          depression was part of it, if not most of it, but it turns out there
          WAS something else going on. Claude was developing an abscess near
          his spine - just to the right hand side actually, level with his legs.

          The problem with this, apart from the obvious, is ... I now think
          Claude may have inadvertently killed Patch.

          The four babies, and then the three babies after Buttons passed away
          in 2005, all used to play with each other. They would chase each
          other, lurk and jump out, and occasionally grab each other in a
          headlock and give a few kicks. They never meant anything by it - it
          was just play.

          A couple of months ago, when outside, I saw Patch jump Claude from
          behind, wrap his front arms around him upside down, and give him a
          nip on the rump. Claude wriggled, but couldn't get out of it, but
          Patch let him go, so it was all okay.

          I think Patch may have tried the same game again on Wednesday night.
          But this time, Claude got out of it, and it became a front-to-front
          thing. It would explain how Claude got the abscess on his back, and
          also a scratch mark on his chin - he would never let any other cat
          get close enough to get the underneath of his jaw.

          I think that, in play-defending himself, he may have 'rabbit-kicked'
          Patch in the chest, which may have broken up a clot in his heart,
          travelling through the aorta, and ending in his death at the
          Emergency Vet at 4.24am on the Friday morning.

          I can't tell my mum - we shared all four cats, but Buttons and Patch
          attached themselves more closely to me, and Claude and Tuppenny to
          her. But she's really grieving for Patch too, and if she thought for
          a second that her baby boy may have unintentionally precipitated the
          death of my baby boy, that'd be really hard on her.

          I don't have proof of any of this, but it does all seem to fit. It
          would also explain how Patch went from asymptomatic to critically ill
          so very quickly.

          When I let the three young ones into the backyard on Wednesday
          evening around 6pm, they were full of energy - they all RACED out.
          Maybe it was that playfulness that was at fault.

          In any case, Claude's chin and abscess are healing nicely now.
          Claude is spending almost all of his time with me, not with my mum,
          and I do love him, and without proof I'll try to believe that it was
          just Patch's time, that it was a good thing that he was living his
          life so fully right up until the clot, that I wouldn't have wanted to
          see him in a long drawn out illness.

          Claude needs me. Tuppenny needs me. Even the mother cat needs me.
          And I need them.

          *sigh*

          Catherine, Kitty, Claude, Tuppenny
          Topsy-Angel, Buttons-Angel, Patch-Angel.
        • amanda
          Awww Catherine, Yes that could be true but as you said, you don`t have any proof, but at the same time, it`s lucky that Patch didn`t suffer long though. Yes
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 6, 2008
            Awww Catherine, Yes that could be true but as you said, you don`t have any proof, but at the same time, it`s lucky that Patch didn`t suffer long though. Yes you do need them and they need you too, I think it does help to talk about it, even what you just wrote, I went through this with all my cats when they passed and people here really did help me get through it, you will go through guilt, anger, what ifs ect ect and it`s quite normal, we are also here for you, maybe you can post some pics of your cats? if you already have, please let me know and I`ll take a look at them , take care, hugs and purrs , Amanda and Silver chan. P.S; did you try the nattokinase yet on the other cats?

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Catherine Browning
            ... have any proof, but at the same time, it`s lucky that Patch didn`t suffer long though. Yes you do need them and they need you too, I think it does help to
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 10, 2008
              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "amanda" <white-daisey@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Awww Catherine, Yes that could be true but as you said, you don`t
              have any proof, but at the same time, it`s lucky that Patch didn`t
              suffer long though. Yes you do need them and they need you too, I
              think it does help to talk about it, even what you just wrote, I went
              through this with all my cats when they passed and people here really
              did help me get through it, you will go through guilt, anger, what
              ifs ect ect and it`s quite normal, we are also here for you, maybe
              you can post some pics of your cats? if you already have, please let
              me know and I`ll take a look at them , take care, hugs and purrs ,
              Amanda and Silver chan. P.S; did you try the nattokinase yet on the
              other cats?

              Hi Amanda,

              Thank you so much for your email. I hope to post pictures of Kitty,
              Buttons, Patch, Claude and Tuppenny into the 'Photos' section later
              today, and also on their Catster pages (from
              http://www.catster.com/cats/242306).

              About the Natto ... it's early morning (well, 7.30am ... it was early
              when I first tried to come into the computer room though!) here and
              when Claude woke up and stretched, he flicked his back right foot as
              if something were stuck in it, which is entirely possible (he may
              have used the litter tray overnight), but which also has me
              concerned. Anyway, I want to get him on Natto until I can find him a
              good doctor, but I don't know how much.

              The Natto I have is "Doctor's Best" 90 capsules, but it doesn't say
              how many mg to a capsule, just 2000FU per capsule, and I don't know
              how many mg he should have anyway, or even how best to give it to
              him ... are they soft capsules? Do I just squeeze it onto his front
              feet? Do I have to stick a clean finger in his mouth (my finger, not
              his ... well, obviously! Forget I just wrote that!)?

              Thanks!

              Catherine the worried momma, and
              Kitty (momma-cat), Claude, Tuppenny,
              Topsy-Angel, Buttons-Angel, Patch-Angel.
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