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Re: dosing adjustments and stethoscope use

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  • Carol
    Angel, Here are a couple of sites that can help with the stethoscope stuff. One is from PetSage and the other from UCLA. The UCLA one is a human site, but the
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 1, 2007
      Angel,

      Here are a couple of sites that can help with the stethoscope stuff.
      One is from PetSage and the other from UCLA. The UCLA one is a human
      site, but the heart sounds should be similar to what kitty heart
      sounds are. I got the UCLA one from the group files

      http://www.med.ucla.edu/wilkes/intro.html

      http://www.petsage.com/art_pet_emerg.htm


      Carol and Puddy, Boo, Punkie, MeanMama, Misty, Snowball and Chelsea
      (missing angels Muffy, Bouncer, Ducky, Sweetie and Fritzy)

      "I know you're there...a breath away's not far to where you are."



      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, <toreadpethealthinfo@...> wrote:
      > Also, I'm getting a stethoscope. Can you help guide me in how to
      use it most effectively to identify the liquid content/level in the
      lungs as early as possible so I can avoid the full-bloom respiratory
      crisis? What do I listen for? What "should" a normal lung sound
      like? Where do I place the pad for best results? Any other tips or
      thoughts?
      >
    • Penny Branham
      Hello Wolfy and Angel, Yes, your reasoning made sense to me, but I think Leah zoned in on why it probably didn t work. I would not have known that, and would
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 1, 2007
        Hello Wolfy and Angel,

        Yes, your reasoning made sense to me, but I think Leah zoned in on why it probably didn't work. I would not have known that, and would have tried what you did in the same situation. Sometimes with these meds vs side effects it is the lesser of two evils.

        On the stethescope thing, listen plenty of times when you know he is is a good space and lungs are pretty clear; that will help you determine when they are not. My cats alwasy start to purr when I go to use the scope and even the vet gave up one visit when I had my Snowball in. We had a good laugh - he had a loud rumble and it was in full bore. He would not quit, either. We tried moving him, waiting for a few minutes, then as soon as the scope was near him, he would start purring again. I swear I saw a little twinkle in his eye that day. He liked to play like that. He was my silent jester.

        Good luck, and please pass on any info you get on the stethoscope that is not mailed to the group. I have another heart kitty I am attending, Snowball's sister, and I predict in a year or so I will need all the skills I can muster.

        Thanks to you and Wolfy, and best of luck.

        Penny and Angel Snowball

        toreadpethealthinfo@... wrote:
        Hello all,

        Wolfy was doing well on the Lasix, Diltiazem and Enalapril until I mucked with the dose.

        I was thinking that instead of giving him two doses a day, I could half the morning dose and give it to him in morning and afternoon instead, and then do the full dose in the evening. My reasoning was that it would be less of a burden on his kidneys, getting smaller doses to filter through AND keeping the dosing more level in his body through out the day. I don't know if this reasoning ACTUALLY holds any water, but it seemed logical to me at the time.

        Still does actually, except for the fact that Wolfy had an episode of loud wheezing 47 breaths per minute one morning which made me analyze his behavior in retrospect and realize that his socialness reduced about the time I started the changed dosing.

        Any thoughts?

        Also, I'm getting a stethoscope. Can you help guide me in how to use it most effectively to identify the liquid content/level in the lungs as early as possible so I can avoid the full-bloom respiratory crisis? What do I listen for? What "should" a normal lung sound like? Where do I place the pad for best results? Any other tips or thoughts?

        Many thanks and as many blessings to you all and your sweet kitties,
        Wolfy & Angel

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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      • toreadpethealthinfo@gmail.com
        Thank you Penny, How cute is that! About your motormouth little mischief... You are right, it happened with Wolfy too today, I must have tried about 10
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 3, 2007
          Thank you Penny,

          How cute is that! About your motormouth little mischief... You are right, it happened with Wolfy too today, I must have tried about 10 times! I never noticed before that he purrs immediately when he even just sees my hands coming his way. Too funny. I even tried catching him in his sleep but he must be psychic because he woke up each time just before I touched him and instantly began his "vibration therapy" as I call it.

          By the way - so far I've learned that there are a number of different grades of stethoscopes. The lower grade ones, with non-adjustable heads/funnels and really fat hoses are lower grade.

          Also, the ear pieces mustn't be too big and clunky. They should be slim and fit deeply and snugly into your ear.

          I keep trying to think of tricks to stop Wolfy from purring but so far no luck. I'll be danged if I'm going to let him win though! Will let you know when I find something that works!

          Thanks,
          Angel


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Penny Branham

          Hello Wolfy and Angel,

          Yes, your reasoning made sense to me, but I think Leah zoned in on why it probably didn't work. I would not have known that, and would have tried what you did in the same situation. Sometimes with these meds vs side effects it is the lesser of two evils.

          On the stethescope thing, listen plenty of times when you know he is is a good space and lungs are pretty clear; that will help you determine when they are not. My cats alwasy start to purr when I go to use the scope and even the vet gave up one visit when I had my Snowball in. We had a good laugh - he had a loud rumble and it was in full bore. He would not quit, either. We tried moving him, waiting for a few minutes, then as soon as the scope was near him, he would start purring again. I swear I saw a little twinkle in his eye that day. He liked to play like that. He was my silent jester.

          Good luck, and please pass on any info you get on the stethoscope that is not mailed to the group. I have another heart kitty I am attending, Snowball's sister, and I predict in a year or so I will need all the skills I can muster.

          Thanks to you and Wolfy, and best of luck.

          Penny and Angel Snowball

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • toreadpethealthinfo@gmail.com
          Hello Leah, Yes, I see your points. You explained it very well Leah. It makes sense that there would be minimum threshold doses for adequate saturation so
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 3, 2007
            Hello Leah,

            Yes, I see your points. You explained it very well Leah. It makes sense that there would be minimum threshold doses for adequate "saturation" so to speak. Don't know why this didn't cross my mind at the time.

            I didn't know the efficacy period for Lasix was 6 hours. That is great info to have. I just made a note and will ask the cardiologist what the period is for the enelapril and diltiazem as well.

            Yes, I've learned from you guys about the respiration rate and I'm a regular pro at it now, I can tell within 3-4 breaths already how he's doing! I'm getting familiar with his "normal" sounds now with the stethoscope so we'll see how helpful it becomes as he goes into a crisis. Will keep you all posted on anything I learn.

            Thanks again Leah, you're such a great "guide" to have in my back-pocket!

            Angel & Wolfy


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Leah Ferron
            To: toreadpethealthinfo@... ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 11:40 AM
            Subject: Re: [FH] dosing adjustments and stethoscope use


            Angel,

            Which meds are you "mucking" with? I totally understand your reasoning but I would not continue to change doses especially if it is the heart meds. I am not sure how long the ditiazem and enalapril last in the system but the lasix works for 6 hours. The heart meds should only be given as prescribed so as to not overdose or underdose Wolfy. Also, some meds need to be at a certain strength to get the maximum effect. With the lasix, it can be given 3x per day but I wouldn't give it more than that in a day on a regular basis. I used to have to give Alec a 4th dose every once in a while but only when he was in emergent need. With the lasix, Wolfy may need a certain amount to start the day out to clear the lungs and subsequent doses to keep it clear. If you don't give enough the first dose, the second or third doses may not be enough to play catch up for what the first dose didn't do plus everything that retained after that. Am I making sense in how I am explaining this? I hope you understand. If not, let me know.

            I think in our files section there is an email on respiration rate and how to count for it. I believe it also tells you how to use a stethescope. I think counting the rate is going to be your best indicator of how much fluid is being retained. Unless you are familiar with a kitty's anatomy, I don't think you will be able to know how much fluid is being retained and where by stethescope alone. It will be good for counting heart beat but it may be difficult too because if Wolfy is like any of my kitties, he will start purring the moment you touch him. That will make things even harder to hear what is going on. My vet was unable to use a steth and tell me how much and where the fluid was - he had to do it by x-ray for definite results. He could tell if there was air getting into the lungs by steth or if he thought there was some fluid in there. Sorry I couldn't be more help, maybe someone else in the group can give you help with the steth.

            Leah and her cats and Angel Alec




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