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Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

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  • Linda Fischbach
    If your pet has had high numbers in the past which were lowered by fluids, of course the fluids should be continued to keep the numbers down. However, for
    Message 1 of 10 , May 1 7:28 AM
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      If your pet has had high numbers in the past which were lowered by fluids, of course the fluids should be continued to keep the numbers down. However, for cats who have mild CRF, such as Creat in the 2's/low 3's, and Bun just slightly elevated (and have never had high numbers), fluids are not necessary, and can overwork the kidneys.

      Linda

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Sara
      To: Linda Fischbach ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com ; Sue at MAGDRL ; mottola@...
      Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 8:46 AM
      Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


      I disagree, sub q's not only help with dehydration, but it also works as a form of dialysis keeping the toxins from building up in the blood... its extremely critical in keeping the BUN in check - without them one would be risking a crf crash...thats why I keep them up everyday with my 15 yr old CRF dog...I never want to deal with another crash if I can help it, another 3 day hospital stay for an IV flush....it was a nightmare. I believe he's now still thriving 1 year post-failure because of them and the holistic treatments. Not worth waiting for the crash if it can be prevented.

      I belong to an awesome CRF group, but its for dogs, they have great holistic advice. I now treat myself holistically, my cats too!

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/




      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...>
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL <susan@...>
      Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:37:36 AM
      Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


      The large CRF group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.
      That group is very active, and there's a lot of good information. It is not
      holistic. But I would still recommend joining it.

      Some groups push giving Sub-q fluids even to cats with mild CRF. Fluids are
      given to avoid dehydration, and most CRF cats can maintain hydration via
      drinking water until their Creats are in the upper 3's. Yes, fluids can
      lower numbers, but if they are not necessary, they are also unnecessarily
      overworking the kidneys.

      Linda

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Sue at MAGDRL" <susan@...>
      To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:43 PM
      Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


      > Deena,
      >
      > There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
      > know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also
      > WholeCat
      > Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
      > toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
      > sell to make $$$
      >
      > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/
      >
      > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
      >
      > There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
      > http://www.holisticat.com/forum/
      >
      >
      >
      > Sue & Angel Pepper
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Deena" <mottola@...>
      > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
      > Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists
      >
      >
      >> Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
      >> holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
      >> this one.
      >>
      >> My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
      >> bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
      >> years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
      >> his compromised kidney function.
      >>
      >> TIA,
      >>
      >> Deena
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
      > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
      > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
      > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
      > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >




      Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links






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    • Sara
      Hi Linda - I m hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I m dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but combined both
      Message 2 of 10 , May 1 11:36 AM
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        Hi Linda - I'm hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I'm dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but combined both together is a very different situation. I've always heart that heart trumps the kidneys, so #1 focus is usually on the heart.

        There are some on here that are dealing with both. Its a tough dance, with CRF you need to push fluids, but have to be careful if you are dealing with fluid buildup on the heart...

        There are supplements that I buy in bulk for both my CRF and HCM kids - CoQ10, Omega 3 fish oil, Vit E and Taurine.

        My CRF dog is also on Azodyl, Epakitin and Multi B.

        Hopefully others can give you better info on balancing them together!


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Linda Irrgang <linda@...>
        To: Sara <sara5266@...>; Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...>; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL <susan@...>; mottola@...
        Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2007 9:29:05 AM
        Subject: RE: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


        Sara...can you tell me more about your crf regime for your cats. Pum has
        started his inevitable kidney decline after years and years of heart meds.

        i would really appreciate any info you would like to share.

        Thx.

        Linda and Pumpkin


        _____

        From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Sara
        Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:46 AM
        To: Linda Fischbach; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL;
        mottola@...
        Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists



        I disagree, sub q's not only help with dehydration, but it also works as a
        form of dialysis keeping the toxins from building up in the blood... its
        extremely critical in keeping the BUN in check - without them one would be
        risking a crf crash...thats why I keep them up everyday with my 15 yr old
        CRF dog...I never want to deal with another crash if I can help it, another
        3 day hospital stay for an IV flush....it was a nightmare. I believe he's
        now still thriving 1 year post-failure because of them and the holistic
        treatments. Not worth waiting for the crash if it can be prevented.

        I belong to an awesome CRF group, but its for dogs, they have great holistic
        advice. I now treat myself holistically, my cats too!

        http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/>
        yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@wildblue. <mailto:fischbl%40wildblue.net>
        net>
        To: feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com;
        Sue at MAGDRL <susan@magdrl- <mailto:susan%40magdrl-nj.com> nj.com>
        Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:37:36 AM
        Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

        The large CRF group is http://groups.
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.>
        yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.
        That group is very active, and there's a lot of good information. It is not
        holistic. But I would still recommend joining it.

        Some groups push giving Sub-q fluids even to cats with mild CRF. Fluids are
        given to avoid dehydration, and most CRF cats can maintain hydration via
        drinking water until their Creats are in the upper 3's. Yes, fluids can
        lower numbers, but if they are not necessary, they are also unnecessarily
        overworking the kidneys.

        Linda

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Sue at MAGDRL" <susan@magdrl- <mailto:susan%40magdrl-nj.com> nj.com>
        To: <feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:43 PM
        Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

        > Deena,
        >
        > There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
        > know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also
        > WholeCat
        > Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
        > toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
        > sell to make $$$
        >
        > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/>
        groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/
        >
        > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/>
        groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
        >
        > There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
        > http://www.holistic <http://www.holisticat.com/forum/> at.com/forum/
        >
        >
        >
        > Sue & Angel Pepper
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Deena" <mottola@comcast. <mailto:mottola%40comcast.net> net>
        > To: <feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
        > Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists
        >
        >
        >> Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
        >> holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
        >> this one.
        >>
        >> My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
        >> bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
        >> years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
        >> his compromised kidney function.
        >>
        >> TIA,
        >>
        >> Deena
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
        > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
        > feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
        > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
        > feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
        will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@
        <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        __________________________________________________
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Yahoo! Groups Links



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Linda Fischbach
        Sara, I don t know much about CRF dogs, but I know that Epakitin is not the best phosphorus binder (it s about 90% sugar), plus it can raise calcium levels.
        Message 3 of 10 , May 1 1:48 PM
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          Sara, I don't know much about CRF dogs, but I know that Epakitin is not the
          best phosphorus binder (it's about 90% sugar), plus it can raise calcium
          levels. If your dog has high phosphorus, consider using aluminum
          hydroxide.

          Linda

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Sara" <sara5266@...>
          To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>; <linda@...>
          Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:36 PM
          Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


          > Hi Linda - I'm hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I'm
          > dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but
          > combined both together is a very different situation. I've always heart
          > that heart trumps the kidneys, so #1 focus is usually on the heart.
          >
          > There are some on here that are dealing with both. Its a tough dance,
          > with CRF you need to push fluids, but have to be careful if you are
          > dealing with fluid buildup on the heart...
          >
          > There are supplements that I buy in bulk for both my CRF and HCM kids -
          > CoQ10, Omega 3 fish oil, Vit E and Taurine.
          >
          > My CRF dog is also on Azodyl, Epakitin and Multi B.
          >
          > Hopefully others can give you better info on balancing them together!
        • Sara
          Yeah, we ve been monitoring his phos count and luckily its been in the normal range since he crashed which is why we were sticking with Epakitin, plus he had
          Message 4 of 10 , May 2 6:18 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Yeah, we've been monitoring his phos count and luckily its been in the normal range since he crashed which is why we were sticking with Epakitin, plus he had low serum calcium and the extra was good for him...but I've also got powdered alum hydroxide on hand too if/when it ever creeps up. Actually just went for tests last night, hopefully we get good results back again!



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...>
            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; linda@...; Sara <sara5266@...>
            Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2007 4:48:34 PM
            Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


            Sara, I don't know much about CRF dogs, but I know that Epakitin is not the
            best phosphorus binder (it's about 90% sugar), plus it can raise calcium
            levels. If your dog has high phosphorus, consider using aluminum
            hydroxide.

            Linda

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Sara" <sara5266@...>
            To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>; <linda@...>
            Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:36 PM
            Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


            > Hi Linda - I'm hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I'm
            > dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but
            > combined both together is a very different situation. I've always heart
            > that heart trumps the kidneys, so #1 focus is usually on the heart.
            >
            > There are some on here that are dealing with both. Its a tough dance,
            > with CRF you need to push fluids, but have to be careful if you are
            > dealing with fluid buildup on the heart...
            >
            > There are supplements that I buy in bulk for both my CRF and HCM kids -
            > CoQ10, Omega 3 fish oil, Vit E and Taurine.
            >
            > My CRF dog is also on Azodyl, Epakitin and Multi B.
            >
            > Hopefully others can give you better info on balancing them together!

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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