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RE: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

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  • Linda Irrgang
    Sara...can you tell me more about your crf regime for your cats. Pum has started his inevitable kidney decline after years and years of heart meds. i would
    Message 1 of 10 , May 1, 2007
      Sara...can you tell me more about your crf regime for your cats. Pum has
      started his inevitable kidney decline after years and years of heart meds.

      i would really appreciate any info you would like to share.

      Thx.

      Linda and Pumpkin


      _____

      From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Sara
      Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:46 AM
      To: Linda Fischbach; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL;
      mottola@...
      Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists



      I disagree, sub q's not only help with dehydration, but it also works as a
      form of dialysis keeping the toxins from building up in the blood... its
      extremely critical in keeping the BUN in check - without them one would be
      risking a crf crash...thats why I keep them up everyday with my 15 yr old
      CRF dog...I never want to deal with another crash if I can help it, another
      3 day hospital stay for an IV flush....it was a nightmare. I believe he's
      now still thriving 1 year post-failure because of them and the holistic
      treatments. Not worth waiting for the crash if it can be prevented.

      I belong to an awesome CRF group, but its for dogs, they have great holistic
      advice. I now treat myself holistically, my cats too!

      http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/>
      yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@wildblue. <mailto:fischbl%40wildblue.net>
      net>
      To: feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com;
      Sue at MAGDRL <susan@magdrl- <mailto:susan%40magdrl-nj.com> nj.com>
      Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:37:36 AM
      Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

      The large CRF group is http://groups.
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.>
      yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.
      That group is very active, and there's a lot of good information. It is not
      holistic. But I would still recommend joining it.

      Some groups push giving Sub-q fluids even to cats with mild CRF. Fluids are
      given to avoid dehydration, and most CRF cats can maintain hydration via
      drinking water until their Creats are in the upper 3's. Yes, fluids can
      lower numbers, but if they are not necessary, they are also unnecessarily
      overworking the kidneys.

      Linda

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Sue at MAGDRL" <susan@magdrl- <mailto:susan%40magdrl-nj.com> nj.com>
      To: <feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:43 PM
      Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

      > Deena,
      >
      > There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
      > know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also
      > WholeCat
      > Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
      > toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
      > sell to make $$$
      >
      > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/>
      groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/
      >
      > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/>
      groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
      >
      > There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
      > http://www.holistic <http://www.holisticat.com/forum/> at.com/forum/
      >
      >
      >
      > Sue & Angel Pepper
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Deena" <mottola@comcast. <mailto:mottola%40comcast.net> net>
      > To: <feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
      > Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists
      >
      >
      >> Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
      >> holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
      >> this one.
      >>
      >> My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
      >> bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
      >> years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
      >> his compromised kidney function.
      >>
      >> TIA,
      >>
      >> Deena
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
      > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
      > feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
      > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
      > feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
      will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@
      <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Linda Fischbach
      If your pet has had high numbers in the past which were lowered by fluids, of course the fluids should be continued to keep the numbers down. However, for
      Message 2 of 10 , May 1, 2007
        If your pet has had high numbers in the past which were lowered by fluids, of course the fluids should be continued to keep the numbers down. However, for cats who have mild CRF, such as Creat in the 2's/low 3's, and Bun just slightly elevated (and have never had high numbers), fluids are not necessary, and can overwork the kidneys.

        Linda

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Sara
        To: Linda Fischbach ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com ; Sue at MAGDRL ; mottola@...
        Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 8:46 AM
        Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


        I disagree, sub q's not only help with dehydration, but it also works as a form of dialysis keeping the toxins from building up in the blood... its extremely critical in keeping the BUN in check - without them one would be risking a crf crash...thats why I keep them up everyday with my 15 yr old CRF dog...I never want to deal with another crash if I can help it, another 3 day hospital stay for an IV flush....it was a nightmare. I believe he's now still thriving 1 year post-failure because of them and the holistic treatments. Not worth waiting for the crash if it can be prevented.

        I belong to an awesome CRF group, but its for dogs, they have great holistic advice. I now treat myself holistically, my cats too!

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/




        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...>
        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL <susan@...>
        Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:37:36 AM
        Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


        The large CRF group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.
        That group is very active, and there's a lot of good information. It is not
        holistic. But I would still recommend joining it.

        Some groups push giving Sub-q fluids even to cats with mild CRF. Fluids are
        given to avoid dehydration, and most CRF cats can maintain hydration via
        drinking water until their Creats are in the upper 3's. Yes, fluids can
        lower numbers, but if they are not necessary, they are also unnecessarily
        overworking the kidneys.

        Linda

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Sue at MAGDRL" <susan@...>
        To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:43 PM
        Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


        > Deena,
        >
        > There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
        > know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also
        > WholeCat
        > Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
        > toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
        > sell to make $$$
        >
        > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/
        >
        > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
        >
        > There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
        > http://www.holisticat.com/forum/
        >
        >
        >
        > Sue & Angel Pepper
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Deena" <mottola@...>
        > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
        > Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists
        >
        >
        >> Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
        >> holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
        >> this one.
        >>
        >> My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
        >> bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
        >> years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
        >> his compromised kidney function.
        >>
        >> TIA,
        >>
        >> Deena
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
        > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
        > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
        > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
        > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >




        Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Yahoo! Groups Links






        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sara
        Hi Linda - I m hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I m dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but combined both
        Message 3 of 10 , May 1, 2007
          Hi Linda - I'm hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I'm dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but combined both together is a very different situation. I've always heart that heart trumps the kidneys, so #1 focus is usually on the heart.

          There are some on here that are dealing with both. Its a tough dance, with CRF you need to push fluids, but have to be careful if you are dealing with fluid buildup on the heart...

          There are supplements that I buy in bulk for both my CRF and HCM kids - CoQ10, Omega 3 fish oil, Vit E and Taurine.

          My CRF dog is also on Azodyl, Epakitin and Multi B.

          Hopefully others can give you better info on balancing them together!


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Linda Irrgang <linda@...>
          To: Sara <sara5266@...>; Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...>; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL <susan@...>; mottola@...
          Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2007 9:29:05 AM
          Subject: RE: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


          Sara...can you tell me more about your crf regime for your cats. Pum has
          started his inevitable kidney decline after years and years of heart meds.

          i would really appreciate any info you would like to share.

          Thx.

          Linda and Pumpkin


          _____

          From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Sara
          Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:46 AM
          To: Linda Fischbach; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL;
          mottola@...
          Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists



          I disagree, sub q's not only help with dehydration, but it also works as a
          form of dialysis keeping the toxins from building up in the blood... its
          extremely critical in keeping the BUN in check - without them one would be
          risking a crf crash...thats why I keep them up everyday with my 15 yr old
          CRF dog...I never want to deal with another crash if I can help it, another
          3 day hospital stay for an IV flush....it was a nightmare. I believe he's
          now still thriving 1 year post-failure because of them and the holistic
          treatments. Not worth waiting for the crash if it can be prevented.

          I belong to an awesome CRF group, but its for dogs, they have great holistic
          advice. I now treat myself holistically, my cats too!

          http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/>
          yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@wildblue. <mailto:fischbl%40wildblue.net>
          net>
          To: feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com;
          Sue at MAGDRL <susan@magdrl- <mailto:susan%40magdrl-nj.com> nj.com>
          Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:37:36 AM
          Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

          The large CRF group is http://groups.
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.>
          yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.
          That group is very active, and there's a lot of good information. It is not
          holistic. But I would still recommend joining it.

          Some groups push giving Sub-q fluids even to cats with mild CRF. Fluids are
          given to avoid dehydration, and most CRF cats can maintain hydration via
          drinking water until their Creats are in the upper 3's. Yes, fluids can
          lower numbers, but if they are not necessary, they are also unnecessarily
          overworking the kidneys.

          Linda

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Sue at MAGDRL" <susan@magdrl- <mailto:susan%40magdrl-nj.com> nj.com>
          To: <feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:43 PM
          Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

          > Deena,
          >
          > There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
          > know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also
          > WholeCat
          > Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
          > toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
          > sell to make $$$
          >
          > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/>
          groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/
          >
          > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/>
          groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
          >
          > There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
          > http://www.holistic <http://www.holisticat.com/forum/> at.com/forum/
          >
          >
          >
          > Sue & Angel Pepper
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Deena" <mottola@comcast. <mailto:mottola%40comcast.net> net>
          > To: <feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
          > Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists
          >
          >
          >> Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
          >> holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
          >> this one.
          >>
          >> My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
          >> bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
          >> years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
          >> his compromised kidney function.
          >>
          >> TIA,
          >>
          >> Deena
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
          > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
          > feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
          > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
          > feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
          will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@
          <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Yahoo! Groups Links



          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Linda Fischbach
          Sara, I don t know much about CRF dogs, but I know that Epakitin is not the best phosphorus binder (it s about 90% sugar), plus it can raise calcium levels.
          Message 4 of 10 , May 1, 2007
            Sara, I don't know much about CRF dogs, but I know that Epakitin is not the
            best phosphorus binder (it's about 90% sugar), plus it can raise calcium
            levels. If your dog has high phosphorus, consider using aluminum
            hydroxide.

            Linda

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Sara" <sara5266@...>
            To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>; <linda@...>
            Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:36 PM
            Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


            > Hi Linda - I'm hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I'm
            > dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but
            > combined both together is a very different situation. I've always heart
            > that heart trumps the kidneys, so #1 focus is usually on the heart.
            >
            > There are some on here that are dealing with both. Its a tough dance,
            > with CRF you need to push fluids, but have to be careful if you are
            > dealing with fluid buildup on the heart...
            >
            > There are supplements that I buy in bulk for both my CRF and HCM kids -
            > CoQ10, Omega 3 fish oil, Vit E and Taurine.
            >
            > My CRF dog is also on Azodyl, Epakitin and Multi B.
            >
            > Hopefully others can give you better info on balancing them together!
          • Sara
            Yeah, we ve been monitoring his phos count and luckily its been in the normal range since he crashed which is why we were sticking with Epakitin, plus he had
            Message 5 of 10 , May 2, 2007
              Yeah, we've been monitoring his phos count and luckily its been in the normal range since he crashed which is why we were sticking with Epakitin, plus he had low serum calcium and the extra was good for him...but I've also got powdered alum hydroxide on hand too if/when it ever creeps up. Actually just went for tests last night, hopefully we get good results back again!



              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...>
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; linda@...; Sara <sara5266@...>
              Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2007 4:48:34 PM
              Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


              Sara, I don't know much about CRF dogs, but I know that Epakitin is not the
              best phosphorus binder (it's about 90% sugar), plus it can raise calcium
              levels. If your dog has high phosphorus, consider using aluminum
              hydroxide.

              Linda

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Sara" <sara5266@...>
              To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>; <linda@...>
              Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:36 PM
              Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


              > Hi Linda - I'm hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I'm
              > dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but
              > combined both together is a very different situation. I've always heart
              > that heart trumps the kidneys, so #1 focus is usually on the heart.
              >
              > There are some on here that are dealing with both. Its a tough dance,
              > with CRF you need to push fluids, but have to be careful if you are
              > dealing with fluid buildup on the heart...
              >
              > There are supplements that I buy in bulk for both my CRF and HCM kids -
              > CoQ10, Omega 3 fish oil, Vit E and Taurine.
              >
              > My CRF dog is also on Azodyl, Epakitin and Multi B.
              >
              > Hopefully others can give you better info on balancing them together!

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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