Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

Expand Messages
  • Linda Fischbach
    Deena, the main thing for CRF, especially early CRF, is keep the food as low in phosphorus as possible. There is a lot of debate about whether or not low
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 27, 2007
      Deena, the main thing for CRF, especially early CRF, is keep the food as low
      in phosphorus as possible. There is a lot of debate about whether or not
      low protein is helpful, but everyone agrees about low phosphorus.

      Linda

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Deena" <mottola@...>
      To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
      Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


      > Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
      > holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
      > this one.
      >
      > My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
      > bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
      > years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
      > his compromised kidney function.
      >
      > TIA,
      >
      > Deena
      >
      >
      >
      > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
      > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
      > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Sue at MAGDRL
      Deena, There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there s one really big one. I don t know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also WholeCat
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 27, 2007
        Deena,

        There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
        know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also WholeCat
        Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
        toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
        sell to make $$$

        http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/

        http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/

        There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
        http://www.holisticat.com/forum/



        Sue & Angel Pepper



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Deena" <mottola@...>
        To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
        Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


        > Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
        > holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
        > this one.
        >
        > My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
        > bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
        > years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
        > his compromised kidney function.
        >
        > TIA,
        >
        > Deena
        >
        >
        >
        > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
        will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
        feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Linda Fischbach
        The large CRF group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/. That group is very active, and there s a lot of good information. It is not
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 28, 2007
          The large CRF group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.
          That group is very active, and there's a lot of good information. It is not
          holistic. But I would still recommend joining it.

          Some groups push giving Sub-q fluids even to cats with mild CRF. Fluids are
          given to avoid dehydration, and most CRF cats can maintain hydration via
          drinking water until their Creats are in the upper 3's. Yes, fluids can
          lower numbers, but if they are not necessary, they are also unnecessarily
          overworking the kidneys.

          Linda

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Sue at MAGDRL" <susan@...>
          To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:43 PM
          Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


          > Deena,
          >
          > There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
          > know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also
          > WholeCat
          > Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
          > toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
          > sell to make $$$
          >
          > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/
          >
          > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
          >
          > There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
          > http://www.holisticat.com/forum/
          >
          >
          >
          > Sue & Angel Pepper
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Deena" <mottola@...>
          > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
          > Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists
          >
          >
          >> Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
          >> holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
          >> this one.
          >>
          >> My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
          >> bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
          >> years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
          >> his compromised kidney function.
          >>
          >> TIA,
          >>
          >> Deena
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
          > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
          > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
          > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
          > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Deena
          Thanks everyone for your private and public help. I m passing the info onto Mairon. I recommended she start with Rosemary s list. Then branch out from there
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 28, 2007
            Thanks everyone for your private and public help. I'm passing the
            info onto Mairon. I recommended she start with Rosemary's list.
            Then branch out from there based on the types of info she needs.
            She's a vet tech, but works for a very traditional clinic.


            <The vet is bullying her into prescription diets.
            Have her practice the following with a pleasant smile: No, thank you.
            >

            The vet telling her raw is killing her cat is her boss. I told her
            if she can't win the battle, to buy a few cans of Hill's to appease
            him. Then let them collect dust or donate to a shelter.

            What's your opinion of Wysong Prescription Diets?
            http://www.wysong.net/page/WOTTPWS/CTGY/RXDIET
            I know they are pricey, but seem to have biologically appropriate
            ingredients. They are formulated by a vet who I feel actually
            understands feline nutrition. To me, this might be a decent
            compromise if her vet insists on a prescription kidney-friendly
            food. I've never used them. When Tufts Cardiology told me to feed
            a "prescription" diet, I made my own. With ingredients I felt comfy
            with. So I could control everything that went into my cat.


            What about stuff like dandelion and fish oil?
            To reduce inflammation and keep everything flowing easily.


            <I hope the vet ruled out other causes of elevated BUN and creatinine
            besides kidney insufficiency, eg infection, diet, and
            dehydration...and that the diagnosis was based not just on kidney
            values but also on such values as phosphorus, potassium, calcium,
            HCT/PCV, and urine specific gravity, plus symptoms. >

            Is there info around on what "normal" blood values should be for a
            raw fed cat? Especially cats fed a prey-model or Lonsdale type diet?

            I've seen this cause unnecessary concern in the dog world. Recently
            I got volunteered to enter our breed in a Thyroid Gene Marker Study.
            Organized by Dr Jean Dodds. The person who researched "normal" blood
            values of raw fed dogs with Dr Susan Wynn. Some lab reports have
            come back with "high, pre-renal" designations next to some values
            like BUN. Especially those dogs fed a prey-model diet with no grains
            and veggies. The owners freak as do their vets. When I asked Jean,
            she said it's no biggie. This pre-renal label has nothing to do with
            renal insufficiency. "Pre-renal" refers to something that happens in
            the blood, before it gets to the kidneys. It does not mean the early
            stages of kidney failure. If the same applies to cats, this is VERY
            important info to get out to the public.

            Thanks again guys,

            Deena
          • Sara
            I disagree, sub q s not only help with dehydration, but it also works as a form of dialysis keeping the toxins from building up in the blood... its extremely
            Message 5 of 10 , May 1, 2007
              I disagree, sub q's not only help with dehydration, but it also works as a form of dialysis keeping the toxins from building up in the blood... its extremely critical in keeping the BUN in check - without them one would be risking a crf crash...thats why I keep them up everyday with my 15 yr old CRF dog...I never want to deal with another crash if I can help it, another 3 day hospital stay for an IV flush....it was a nightmare. I believe he's now still thriving 1 year post-failure because of them and the holistic treatments. Not worth waiting for the crash if it can be prevented.

              I belong to an awesome CRF group, but its for dogs, they have great holistic advice. I now treat myself holistically, my cats too!

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/




              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...>
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL <susan@...>
              Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:37:36 AM
              Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


              The large CRF group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.
              That group is very active, and there's a lot of good information. It is not
              holistic. But I would still recommend joining it.

              Some groups push giving Sub-q fluids even to cats with mild CRF. Fluids are
              given to avoid dehydration, and most CRF cats can maintain hydration via
              drinking water until their Creats are in the upper 3's. Yes, fluids can
              lower numbers, but if they are not necessary, they are also unnecessarily
              overworking the kidneys.

              Linda

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Sue at MAGDRL" <susan@...>
              To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:43 PM
              Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


              > Deena,
              >
              > There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
              > know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also
              > WholeCat
              > Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
              > toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
              > sell to make $$$
              >
              > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/
              >
              > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
              >
              > There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
              > http://www.holisticat.com/forum/
              >
              >
              >
              > Sue & Angel Pepper
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Deena" <mottola@...>
              > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
              > Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists
              >
              >
              >> Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
              >> holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
              >> this one.
              >>
              >> My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
              >> bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
              >> years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
              >> his compromised kidney function.
              >>
              >> TIA,
              >>
              >> Deena
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
              > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
              > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
              > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
              > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >




              Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links



              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Linda Irrgang
              Sara...can you tell me more about your crf regime for your cats. Pum has started his inevitable kidney decline after years and years of heart meds. i would
              Message 6 of 10 , May 1, 2007
                Sara...can you tell me more about your crf regime for your cats. Pum has
                started his inevitable kidney decline after years and years of heart meds.

                i would really appreciate any info you would like to share.

                Thx.

                Linda and Pumpkin


                _____

                From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Sara
                Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:46 AM
                To: Linda Fischbach; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL;
                mottola@...
                Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists



                I disagree, sub q's not only help with dehydration, but it also works as a
                form of dialysis keeping the toxins from building up in the blood... its
                extremely critical in keeping the BUN in check - without them one would be
                risking a crf crash...thats why I keep them up everyday with my 15 yr old
                CRF dog...I never want to deal with another crash if I can help it, another
                3 day hospital stay for an IV flush....it was a nightmare. I believe he's
                now still thriving 1 year post-failure because of them and the holistic
                treatments. Not worth waiting for the crash if it can be prevented.

                I belong to an awesome CRF group, but its for dogs, they have great holistic
                advice. I now treat myself holistically, my cats too!

                http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/>
                yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@wildblue. <mailto:fischbl%40wildblue.net>
                net>
                To: feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com;
                Sue at MAGDRL <susan@magdrl- <mailto:susan%40magdrl-nj.com> nj.com>
                Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:37:36 AM
                Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

                The large CRF group is http://groups.
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.>
                yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.
                That group is very active, and there's a lot of good information. It is not
                holistic. But I would still recommend joining it.

                Some groups push giving Sub-q fluids even to cats with mild CRF. Fluids are
                given to avoid dehydration, and most CRF cats can maintain hydration via
                drinking water until their Creats are in the upper 3's. Yes, fluids can
                lower numbers, but if they are not necessary, they are also unnecessarily
                overworking the kidneys.

                Linda

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Sue at MAGDRL" <susan@magdrl- <mailto:susan%40magdrl-nj.com> nj.com>
                To: <feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:43 PM
                Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

                > Deena,
                >
                > There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
                > know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also
                > WholeCat
                > Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
                > toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
                > sell to make $$$
                >
                > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/>
                groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/
                >
                > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/>
                groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
                >
                > There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
                > http://www.holistic <http://www.holisticat.com/forum/> at.com/forum/
                >
                >
                >
                > Sue & Angel Pepper
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Deena" <mottola@comcast. <mailto:mottola%40comcast.net> net>
                > To: <feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
                > Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists
                >
                >
                >> Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
                >> holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
                >> this one.
                >>
                >> My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
                >> bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
                >> years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
                >> his compromised kidney function.
                >>
                >> TIA,
                >>
                >> Deena
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                > feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                > feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >

                Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@
                <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                Yahoo! Groups Links

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Linda Fischbach
                If your pet has had high numbers in the past which were lowered by fluids, of course the fluids should be continued to keep the numbers down. However, for
                Message 7 of 10 , May 1, 2007
                  If your pet has had high numbers in the past which were lowered by fluids, of course the fluids should be continued to keep the numbers down. However, for cats who have mild CRF, such as Creat in the 2's/low 3's, and Bun just slightly elevated (and have never had high numbers), fluids are not necessary, and can overwork the kidneys.

                  Linda

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Sara
                  To: Linda Fischbach ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com ; Sue at MAGDRL ; mottola@...
                  Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 8:46 AM
                  Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


                  I disagree, sub q's not only help with dehydration, but it also works as a form of dialysis keeping the toxins from building up in the blood... its extremely critical in keeping the BUN in check - without them one would be risking a crf crash...thats why I keep them up everyday with my 15 yr old CRF dog...I never want to deal with another crash if I can help it, another 3 day hospital stay for an IV flush....it was a nightmare. I believe he's now still thriving 1 year post-failure because of them and the holistic treatments. Not worth waiting for the crash if it can be prevented.

                  I belong to an awesome CRF group, but its for dogs, they have great holistic advice. I now treat myself holistically, my cats too!

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/




                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...>
                  To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL <susan@...>
                  Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:37:36 AM
                  Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


                  The large CRF group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.
                  That group is very active, and there's a lot of good information. It is not
                  holistic. But I would still recommend joining it.

                  Some groups push giving Sub-q fluids even to cats with mild CRF. Fluids are
                  given to avoid dehydration, and most CRF cats can maintain hydration via
                  drinking water until their Creats are in the upper 3's. Yes, fluids can
                  lower numbers, but if they are not necessary, they are also unnecessarily
                  overworking the kidneys.

                  Linda

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Sue at MAGDRL" <susan@...>
                  To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:43 PM
                  Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


                  > Deena,
                  >
                  > There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
                  > know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also
                  > WholeCat
                  > Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
                  > toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
                  > sell to make $$$
                  >
                  > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/
                  >
                  > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
                  >
                  > There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
                  > http://www.holisticat.com/forum/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sue & Angel Pepper
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Deena" <mottola@...>
                  > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
                  > Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists
                  >
                  >
                  >> Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
                  >> holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
                  >> this one.
                  >>
                  >> My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
                  >> bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
                  >> years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
                  >> his compromised kidney function.
                  >>
                  >> TIA,
                  >>
                  >> Deena
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                  > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                  > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                  > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                  > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >




                  Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links






                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                  Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Sara
                  Hi Linda - I m hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I m dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but combined both
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 1, 2007
                    Hi Linda - I'm hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I'm dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but combined both together is a very different situation. I've always heart that heart trumps the kidneys, so #1 focus is usually on the heart.

                    There are some on here that are dealing with both. Its a tough dance, with CRF you need to push fluids, but have to be careful if you are dealing with fluid buildup on the heart...

                    There are supplements that I buy in bulk for both my CRF and HCM kids - CoQ10, Omega 3 fish oil, Vit E and Taurine.

                    My CRF dog is also on Azodyl, Epakitin and Multi B.

                    Hopefully others can give you better info on balancing them together!


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Linda Irrgang <linda@...>
                    To: Sara <sara5266@...>; Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...>; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL <susan@...>; mottola@...
                    Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2007 9:29:05 AM
                    Subject: RE: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


                    Sara...can you tell me more about your crf regime for your cats. Pum has
                    started his inevitable kidney decline after years and years of heart meds.

                    i would really appreciate any info you would like to share.

                    Thx.

                    Linda and Pumpkin


                    _____

                    From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Sara
                    Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:46 AM
                    To: Linda Fischbach; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Sue at MAGDRL;
                    mottola@...
                    Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists



                    I disagree, sub q's not only help with dehydration, but it also works as a
                    form of dialysis keeping the toxins from building up in the blood... its
                    extremely critical in keeping the BUN in check - without them one would be
                    risking a crf crash...thats why I keep them up everyday with my 15 yr old
                    CRF dog...I never want to deal with another crash if I can help it, another
                    3 day hospital stay for an IV flush....it was a nightmare. I believe he's
                    now still thriving 1 year post-failure because of them and the holistic
                    treatments. Not worth waiting for the crash if it can be prevented.

                    I belong to an awesome CRF group, but its for dogs, they have great holistic
                    advice. I now treat myself holistically, my cats too!

                    http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/>
                    yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@wildblue. <mailto:fischbl%40wildblue.net>
                    net>
                    To: feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com;
                    Sue at MAGDRL <susan@magdrl- <mailto:susan%40magdrl-nj.com> nj.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:37:36 AM
                    Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

                    The large CRF group is http://groups.
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.>
                    yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/.
                    That group is very active, and there's a lot of good information. It is not
                    holistic. But I would still recommend joining it.

                    Some groups push giving Sub-q fluids even to cats with mild CRF. Fluids are
                    given to avoid dehydration, and most CRF cats can maintain hydration via
                    drinking water until their Creats are in the upper 3's. Yes, fluids can
                    lower numbers, but if they are not necessary, they are also unnecessarily
                    overworking the kidneys.

                    Linda

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Sue at MAGDRL" <susan@magdrl- <mailto:susan%40magdrl-nj.com> nj.com>
                    To: <feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:43 PM
                    Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists

                    > Deena,
                    >
                    > There are some CRF lists in Yahoo but there's one really big one. I don't
                    > know how well any are aligned with holisted care but there is also
                    > WholeCat
                    > Health. That group was created by our own Rosemary and definitely leans
                    > toward realistic and holistic care - not some crappy food a vet wants to
                    > sell to make $$$
                    >
                    > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/>
                    groups.yahoo.com/group/WholeCatHealth/
                    >
                    > http://pets. <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/>
                    groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
                    >
                    > There's also Holisticat which was formerly a Yahoo group - now at
                    > http://www.holistic <http://www.holisticat.com/forum/> at.com/forum/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sue & Angel Pepper
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Deena" <mottola@comcast. <mailto:mottola%40comcast.net> net>
                    > To: <feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:59 PM
                    > Subject: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists
                    >
                    >
                    >> Can someone recommend the best kitty kidney list for someone very
                    >> holistically focused? She's looking for a nice supportive list like
                    >> this one.
                    >>
                    >> My friends cat was just diagnosed with very early CRF. The vet is
                    >> bullying her into prescription diets. The cat has eaten raw for
                    >> years. Her immediate needs is tweeking his diet to meet the needs of
                    >> his compromised kidney function.
                    >>
                    >> TIA,
                    >>
                    >> Deena
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                    > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                    > feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                    > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                    > feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                    will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@
                    <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links



                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    http://mail.yahoo.com

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Linda Fischbach
                    Sara, I don t know much about CRF dogs, but I know that Epakitin is not the best phosphorus binder (it s about 90% sugar), plus it can raise calcium levels.
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 1, 2007
                      Sara, I don't know much about CRF dogs, but I know that Epakitin is not the
                      best phosphorus binder (it's about 90% sugar), plus it can raise calcium
                      levels. If your dog has high phosphorus, consider using aluminum
                      hydroxide.

                      Linda

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Sara" <sara5266@...>
                      To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>; <linda@...>
                      Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:36 PM
                      Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


                      > Hi Linda - I'm hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I'm
                      > dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but
                      > combined both together is a very different situation. I've always heart
                      > that heart trumps the kidneys, so #1 focus is usually on the heart.
                      >
                      > There are some on here that are dealing with both. Its a tough dance,
                      > with CRF you need to push fluids, but have to be careful if you are
                      > dealing with fluid buildup on the heart...
                      >
                      > There are supplements that I buy in bulk for both my CRF and HCM kids -
                      > CoQ10, Omega 3 fish oil, Vit E and Taurine.
                      >
                      > My CRF dog is also on Azodyl, Epakitin and Multi B.
                      >
                      > Hopefully others can give you better info on balancing them together!
                    • Sara
                      Yeah, we ve been monitoring his phos count and luckily its been in the normal range since he crashed which is why we were sticking with Epakitin, plus he had
                      Message 10 of 10 , May 2, 2007
                        Yeah, we've been monitoring his phos count and luckily its been in the normal range since he crashed which is why we were sticking with Epakitin, plus he had low serum calcium and the extra was good for him...but I've also got powdered alum hydroxide on hand too if/when it ever creeps up. Actually just went for tests last night, hopefully we get good results back again!



                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...>
                        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; linda@...; Sara <sara5266@...>
                        Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2007 4:48:34 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


                        Sara, I don't know much about CRF dogs, but I know that Epakitin is not the
                        best phosphorus binder (it's about 90% sugar), plus it can raise calcium
                        levels. If your dog has high phosphorus, consider using aluminum
                        hydroxide.

                        Linda

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Sara" <sara5266@...>
                        To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>; <linda@...>
                        Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:36 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FH] OT: Feline CRF lists


                        > Hi Linda - I'm hesitant to give any advice for Kidney + heart issues, I'm
                        > dealing with them separately, CRF in my dog, and HCM in my cat, but
                        > combined both together is a very different situation. I've always heart
                        > that heart trumps the kidneys, so #1 focus is usually on the heart.
                        >
                        > There are some on here that are dealing with both. Its a tough dance,
                        > with CRF you need to push fluids, but have to be careful if you are
                        > dealing with fluid buildup on the heart...
                        >
                        > There are supplements that I buy in bulk for both my CRF and HCM kids -
                        > CoQ10, Omega 3 fish oil, Vit E and Taurine.
                        >
                        > My CRF dog is also on Azodyl, Epakitin and Multi B.
                        >
                        > Hopefully others can give you better info on balancing them together!

                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        http://mail.yahoo.com

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.