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Re: oxygen, hawthorn, nattokinase, taurine, fish oils, vitamin e, and ASPIRIN? - sue

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  • toreadpethealthinfo@gmail.com
    Thank you, Sue, It seems unfathomable to me that a diagnosis would take 2 years! I think I would have strangled someone by then ! I m only out a month and
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 5, 2007
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      Thank you, Sue,

      It seems unfathomable to me that a diagnosis would take 2 years! I think I would have strangled someone by then ! I'm only out a month and I've already fired 3 vets and "scared" a couple of them and I'm only a little 5'2" little soft spoken woman !

      I dropped the Hawthorne already. Thanks for the confirmation. I did finally find some studies online showing negative effects.

      So, what exactly does carnitine do for the heart ?

      Sue, you only use the oxygen in emergency attack situations? Not for preventive oxygen treatments? I am considering it for both. Of course for emergencies when/if Wolfy has another attack, but mainly for making sure he is optimally oxygenated at all times.

      I don't get the sense that this is something that is done by people on this list. Is it because my reasoning doesn't really hold water about it being beneficial in preventive ways or some other reason?

      Angel & Wolfy




      Angel,

      Welcome to the group.

      You're lucky that it only took them a month to get the diagnosis right. It
      too me almost 2 years and it was only when she went into congestive heart
      failure for a second time that they figured out what was wrong.

      I agree with Lisa that hawthorn is not good for cats. It can actually make
      their condition worse by causing more thickening of the heart.

      Nattokinase (aka "natto") is an enzyme derived from soy. Lisa gave you a
      good description of what it does.

      In addition to natto, there are a couple pharmaceuticals that help prevent
      clots. Plavix comes in pill form and lovenox is an injectable low-molecular
      weight version of heparin. Heparin is normally given via IV when a cat
      throws a clot and needs emergency treatment. Lovenox helps keep you from
      getting to that point.

      I use lovenox and it's been doing what it's supposed to. The only downside
      is the cost. Plavix is less expensive.

      Fish oils (e.g. salmon oil) and vitamin E supposedly help prevent clots but
      I don't know if it's ever actually been studied. The omega-3 in fish oils
      is supposed to help prevent cachexia (muscle wasting) which is a common
      side-effect of heart disease. Again, there's not a lot of data to back this
      up. I use it and my vet is happy with Pepper's overall condition and muscle
      tone.

      I have a setup for oxygen at home. There are two ways to set it up. You
      can either rent oxygen tanks (they don't last long) or get an oxygen
      concentrator which is a machine that extracts and concentrates oxygen from
      the air. I bough an oxygen concentrator on ebay and have the air pumped
      into a crate that I've covered up with plastic wrap. The cost of the unit
      is about the same as one trip to the emergency vet. I've used it twice (in
      over 2 years) and both times it was for an asthma attack. Pepper has both
      asthma and heart disease and it's not always evident which is causing the
      wheezing.

      The best supplements are CoQ10 and l-carnitine. I love the heart supplement
      Cardio Strength (aka Heart Discovery)
      http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Vetri-Science-Cardio-Strength/125015.
      aspx It has a nice mix of supplements that really make a difference.

      Sue
      .


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • toreadpethealthinfo@gmail.com
      Thanks Sue, I ll definitely research the oxygen use much more because of this caution you posted. Thank you. Below is some info on Taurine, which I found on
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 5, 2007
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        Thanks Sue,

        I'll definitely research the oxygen use much more because of this caution you posted. Thank you.

        Below is some info on Taurine, which I found on the holisticat website.

        I thought it may be of interest as a refresher to us all. I'm still searching for Taurine in turkey hearts and after freezing info. If anyone has this, please post !

        Thanks,
        Angel & Wolfy



        http://www.holisticat.com/c_and_c.html

        TAURINE

        Taurine is an essential amino acid for cats - meaning, they must obtain pre-formed taurine from their food. Some years ago, pet food manufacturers discovered the importance of taurine after cats the country over began dying of dilated cardiomyopathy and loosing their vision to central retinal degeneration. The cooking and processing of these commercial foods robbed them of taurine. Once pet food manufacturers began replacing the taurine, these problems were dramatically reduced.

        In Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, Dr. Richard Pitcairn says that today's nutritional standards call for between 60 - 80 mgs of taurine a day for a 10 pound cat. In doing the math for my cats, I found that they ate around 1/6 of a pound of meat a day. Since I feed chicken only, that means my cats are only getting about 26 mgs of taurine daily from their food. I compensate for this by adding 50 mgs of taurine a day to each of my cats' food.

        Dr. Pitcairn later contends that the daily taurine content of a wild cat's diet (he doesn't specify if this is a feral cat or some other breed altogether) is only 25 - 50 mgs a day, so raw meat alone should cover a cat's taurine requirements. In the book The Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care however, C.J. Poutinen says that mice have 2.4 mgs of taurine per gram of mouse. That would put even a 50 gram mouse in at over 100 mgs of taurine..... My personal take is that it's better to be safe than sorry, and most of us who feed raw are still supplementing taurine for this reason. Since taurine is not stored by the cat's body, a little extra each day (if Pitcairn is right) is not likely to harm the cat anyway.

        To illustrate taurine content in cooked and raw meats, I included the following chart from Celeste Yarnall's book Natural Cat Care


        Item Uncooked mean
        in mg/kg Baked mean
        in mg/kg Boiled mean
        in mg/kg
        Beef muscle 362 133 60
        Beef liver 192 141 73
        Beef kidney 225 138 76
        Lamb muscle 473 257 126
        Lamb kidney 239 154 51
        Chicken muscle 337 229 82

        As you can see, cooking dramatically reduces taurine levels. It should be noted that when boiling meat, a large proportion of the taurine lost may be recovered in the cooking water.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • lorkatz2004
        ... interesting article. Most of my cats eat a dry/canned diet, but I have one that steadfastly refuses to touch any kibble/canned food. And I have to feed it
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 6, 2007
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          ---
          interesting article. Most of my cats eat a dry/canned diet, but I
          have one that steadfastly refuses to touch any kibble/canned food.
          And I have to feed it to him by hand...........really spoiled. I
          often said this cat would starve before he touched dry food........so
          for him I have always been afraid of some kind of cardiomypathy
          starting because I have been guessing what supplements to add to his
          raw food. I add taurine but started using kitty bloom and performance
          plus.......seems to work. But wish he would eat a combination of
          dry/raw which to me is a more balanced diet.

          Jinx, having HCM, is also supplemented but he is picky. Cannot
          contaminate his food with any foreign materials........

          I have often asked the breeders........and a LOT feed raw, about
          taurine and their supplements to prevent cardiomypathy and if the pet
          food companies truly are supplying enough taurine in the food to keep
          the cats healthy. I truly do not know......so, if my cardiologist
          tells me that every cat with heart disease needs more taurine,
          somewhere along the line, whether genetics or environmental, we are
          not giving the optimal amount of taurine is my only guess.........and
          that is all it is, a guess.

          But the breeders do supplement when they feed raw and they can have
          some knock down drag out fights about which is best, raw or dry. To
          me, do what works for you and your cat.

          The coat condition of the raw food only cat is good, not great.
          Weight is not as good as dry fed. He did grand in CFA.......but the
          one who eats a combination of raw and dry and canned............is
          great! He also granded in CFA and will go on to regionals some day.
          Another one who only eats dry....the coat condition is great........he
          has also granded in CFA and is a regional winner.

          So.....do what works for you

          Good luck - cathy


          In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, <toreadpethealthinfo@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks Sue,
          >
          > I'll definitely research the oxygen use much more because of this
          caution you posted. Thank you.
          >
          > Below is some info on Taurine, which I found on the holisticat website.
          >
          > I thought it may be of interest as a refresher to us all. I'm still
          searching for Taurine in turkey hearts and after freezing info. If
          anyone has this, please post !
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Angel & Wolfy
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.holisticat.com/c_and_c.html
          >
          > TAURINE
          >
          > Taurine is an essential amino acid for cats - meaning, they must
          obtain pre-formed taurine from their food. Some years ago, pet food
          manufacturers discovered the importance of taurine after cats the
          country over began dying of dilated cardiomyopathy and loosing their
          vision to central retinal degeneration. The cooking and processing of
          these commercial foods robbed them of taurine. Once pet food
          manufacturers began replacing the taurine, these problems were
          dramatically reduced.
          >
          > In Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, Dr. Richard Pitcairn says that
          today's nutritional standards call for between 60 - 80 mgs of taurine
          a day for a 10 pound cat. In doing the math for my cats, I found that
          they ate around 1/6 of a pound of meat a day. Since I feed chicken
          only, that means my cats are only getting about 26 mgs of taurine
          daily from their food. I compensate for this by adding 50 mgs of
          taurine a day to each of my cats' food.
          >
          > Dr. Pitcairn later contends that the daily taurine content of a wild
          cat's diet (he doesn't specify if this is a feral cat or some other
          breed altogether) is only 25 - 50 mgs a day, so raw meat alone should
          cover a cat's taurine requirements. In the book The Encyclopedia of
          Natural Pet Care however, C.J. Poutinen says that mice have 2.4 mgs of
          taurine per gram of mouse. That would put even a 50 gram mouse in at
          over 100 mgs of taurine..... My personal take is that it's better to
          be safe than sorry, and most of us who feed raw are still
          supplementing taurine for this reason. Since taurine is not stored by
          the cat's body, a little extra each day (if Pitcairn is right) is not
          likely to harm the cat anyway.
          >
          > To illustrate taurine content in cooked and raw meats, I included
          the following chart from Celeste Yarnall's book Natural Cat Care
          >
          >
          > Item Uncooked mean
          > in mg/kg Baked mean
          > in mg/kg Boiled mean
          > in mg/kg
          > Beef muscle 362 133 60
          > Beef liver 192 141 73
          > Beef kidney 225 138 76
          > Lamb muscle 473 257 126
          > Lamb kidney 239 154 51
          > Chicken muscle 337 229 82
          >
          > As you can see, cooking dramatically reduces taurine levels. It
          should be noted that when boiling meat, a large proportion of the
          taurine lost may be recovered in the cooking water.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
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