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Re: [FH] I'm going CRAZY...can't get Pharo out of CHF...again!

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  • nala nala
    Dear Andrea, I am so sorry to learn about Pharo and certainly understand the pain and worry this is causing you. I am wondering whether or not your vet might
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 2, 2007
      Dear Andrea,

      I am so sorry to learn about Pharo and certainly
      understand the pain and worry this is causing you.

      I am wondering whether or not your vet might let you
      have injectable lasix at home. (Mine won't, but I
      can't afford any more $1000 emergency visits and $3000
      hospitalizations, so I am going to ask again). This
      should be much faster acting than the oral lasix which
      is not always efficiently absorbed. The fasted acting
      option is IV lasix. IM (intramuscular) and SubQ are
      faster than oral.

      Another option is to add a thiazide diuretic. Sue's
      Pepper is on spirnonlactone HCTZ - the HCTZ is a
      thiazide diuretic. That is what my cardiologist has
      suggested for Cozette when/if lasix doesn't work at
      home anymore.

      I would call my cardiologist and my vet to ask for
      guidance. Mine are pretty good at calling back, as
      are the staff of the emergency clinic where we have
      been taking Cozette lately.

      Best,

      Nala


      --- pharosmommy <pharosmommy@...> wrote:

      > Hi everyone, my baby Pharo has been breathing fast
      > since about 10pm
      > (EST) on New Years Eve. He has severe HCM and his
      > daily dose of meds
      > are 50mg of Lasix and 12.5mg of Spiro a day. The
      > past 2 days we have
      > had to give him 62.5mg of lasix. He is only 11 lbs!
      > It is still not
      > bringing his breathing down. He had 3 coughing fits
      > on New Years Eve.
      > We don't bring Pharo to the ER anymore because he
      > stesses out and he
      > is at such a high risk of a heart attack. We have
      > oxygen at home. I
      > made a dog house tent with oxygen that is now on my
      > bed...in between
      > my husband and I. Pharo wouldn't go in it when it
      > was on the floor.
      > He has slept in there for the past 2 nights and in
      > the morning
      > alittle. Today he looks a little better, but still
      > not right...no
      > coughing for the last 24 hours, thank God.
      >
      > I am so scared we are coming to the point where
      > there is nothing more
      > I can do for him. Can someone please give me some
      > advice? This
      > sounds weird but, Pharo has NOT told me he is ready
      > to go, yet.
      >
      > My cardiologist is so far away, and the trip would
      > really hurt Pharo.
      > I just think he is getting TONS of Lasix for an 11
      > lb kitty. I am
      > stuggling with..."how much is too much"...but if I
      > don't give it to
      > him he will die. 5 pills didn't bring his breathing
      > down too much. 6
      > pills is 75mg of Lasix...is that crazy?? I've tried
      > to up his Spiro
      > before, but that dosen't seem to help at all. The
      > fluid is in his
      > lungs. Please help us if you can.
      > Love,
      > Andrea & Pharo
      >
      >


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    • pharosmommy
      How can you tell if a kitty is dehydrated? Pharo eats only wet food and drinks a lot! Pharo is doing better today. We are only taking our normal dose of
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 2, 2007
        How can you tell if a kitty is dehydrated? Pharo eats only wet food
        and drinks a lot! Pharo is doing better today. We are only taking
        our normal dose of 50mg of lasix today. I have a call into my vet to
        ask about the spiro HCTZ. I'm thinking that might help. I am also
        going to take him in for an x-ray.
        Love,
        Andrea & Pharo
      • Leah Ferron
        Andrea, There are several ways. Look at Pharo s gums. If they are normally pink, then are they pink or whitish? Pink is good, whitish is dehydrated. If his
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 3, 2007
          Andrea,

          There are several ways. Look at Pharo's gums. If they are normally pink, then are they pink or whitish? Pink is good, whitish is dehydrated. If his gums are black, then do the feel test. Are they slick or tacky? Slick good, tacky dehydrated. You can also gently pull up the skin on the nape of his neck. Does it bounce back or slowly go back into place? Fast good, slow dehydrated. The vet can also tell with bloodwork if they are dehydrated.

          I think it is a good idea to have an x-ray. With Pharo's condition, an x-ray should probably be a monthly thing for him. I had to do this with Angel Alec and within a month's time things changed from being retained in the lungs to outside the lungs with chyle. Although counting his breathing gives a pretty good indicator of fluid, an x-ray will tell you for sure and where it is accumulating.

          Please keep us updated on how you and Pharo are doing!

          Leah and her cats and Angel Alec



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        • nala nala
          Andrea, There are a few things that I check for dehydration. First, I look at my cat s eyes to see if they look sunken in - Cozette looks like she has bags
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 3, 2007
            Andrea,

            There are a few things that I check for dehydration.

            First, I look at my cat's eyes to see if they look
            sunken in - Cozette looks like she has bags under her
            eyes or some dirt under her eyes when she doesn't feel
            well from being dehydrated. At times her eyes look
            kind of dull.

            Next I feel her gums, but I need to make sure she
            didn't just drink water. If they feel rubbery or
            tacky instead of slick and smooth that indicates
            dehydration. I usually do this test whenever I am
            pilling her or if I am giving her cheek rubs. Her
            gums have felt tacky even when her eyes have not been
            sunken in.

            Finally, I gently pinch up some of the excess skin
            around her neck and see whether it snaps back into
            place or stays pinched and very slowly goes back into
            place. The cat's skin should snap back. For my cat,
            she has never been so severely dehydrated that her
            skin didn't go back relatively quickly. When in
            doubt, I compare her to her sister (the control cat!)
            or I pinch up some of the skin on the back of my hand
            to see how quickly it goes back.

            Good luck with the vet and I am glad that he is doing
            better today.

            Nala


            --- pharosmommy <pharosmommy@...> wrote:

            > How can you tell if a kitty is dehydrated? Pharo
            > eats only wet food
            > and drinks a lot! Pharo is doing better today. We
            > are only taking
            > our normal dose of 50mg of lasix today. I have a
            > call into my vet to
            > ask about the spiro HCTZ. I'm thinking that might
            > help. I am also
            > going to take him in for an x-ray.
            > Love,
            > Andrea & Pharo
            >
            >


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          • jen
            Andrea, I so sorry to hear that Pharo is having such a tough time. It is such a balancing act with these guys. There is a cardinal rule in medicine - treat
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 3, 2007
              Andrea,

              I so sorry to hear that Pharo is having such a tough time. It is
              such a balancing act with these guys.

              There is a cardinal rule in medicine - treat the patient - not the
              numbers, xray, machine etc. Sometimes they need more than we think
              they should. This being said, dosages should be closely monitored by
              a vet - have you asked his cardiologist about increasing his lasix
              and max doses?

              Another medication to ask about is nitroglyercin. We use this almost
              exclusively in human medicine now for congestive heart failure, lasix
              has fallen completely out of favour. The problem is figuring out the
              dose (I know it's ironic) It only comes in a paste which can be
              applied to the ear; the other delivery methods are not useful for
              cats.

              My HCM kitty Deagan takes more than the average human adult dose of
              Atenolol every day; it is the correct dose for him because his heart
              is reversing the changes and his murmur is dropped dramatically since
              he started it 3 years ago.

              Good luck and hugs for Pharo,
              jen and the gang

              Deagan 4 yo DSH asymptomatic. Atenolol 25 mg twice daily. Murmur
              down to II from VI in 2003.
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