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Pimobendan

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  • Barry Yeoman
    Hi, everyone. Can we revisit the question of Pimobendan? Gerald (see link below to his picture) is 13 years old with HCM, and has been in and out of CHF. Back
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 7, 2006
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      Hi, everyone. Can we revisit the question of Pimobendan?

      Gerald (see link below to his picture) is 13 years old with HCM, and
      has been in and out of CHF. Back in May, his lungs were full of fluid,
      but a low dose of Lasix (6.25 mg/day) cleared them up quickly. (He is
      also taking atenolol, enalapril, baby aspirin, and fragmin.)

      Last night, I rushed him to the emergency clinic at the North Carolina
      State University vet school after he started hyperventilating. Alas,
      the Lasix had started failing at the low dose, and his lungs were full
      again. After several hours of intravenous Lasix, sedation, and oxygen,
      he returned to normal and was released this afternoon. His dosage of
      Lasix has been quadrupled temporarily.

      The vet tells me that if the Lasix fails again, it will be time to put
      him on Pimobendan. I'm not crazy about the idea of a drug that lists
      "sudden death" as a possible side effect. But the vet at NC State says
      she has prescribed Pimobendan to many cats and only suspects it in two
      deaths. In both cases, the cats had such severe CHF that they would
      have died soon anyway.

      Gerald's personal vet says she has seen miracles with dogs taking
      Pimobendan. But she doesn't know much about the drug and cats.

      I'm hoping that, since the last posts about Pimobendan, more of you
      will have had experience with it. What can you advise?

      Thanks,
      Barry

      P.S. Gerald's picture is at http://barryyeoman.com/images/gerald.JPG
    • Leah Ferron
      Barry, Hello and thank you for bringing up this subject. Not having heard of this medicine, I did some research on it. I found a very good site to read over on
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 8, 2006
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        Barry,

        Hello and thank you for bringing up this subject. Not having heard of this medicine, I did some research on it. I found a very good site to read over on Feline (and Canine) heart problems. http://www.vetgo.com/cardio/concepts/concsect.php?conceptkey=78 If you go half way down the page, they talk about felines. It said that Pimobendan was recommended (although not researched) for cats with DCM. I did not see it listed for HCM or RCM. Does Gerald have DCM?

        Your vet said she suspected pimobendan as causes of death in 2 cats. Did she see any similarities in those cats' symptoms or deaths with that med? Did she explain more on why she wants Pimobendan? Did those cats die after prolonged use of pimobendan or was it quickly upon use?

        The research seems promising for dogs with this drug but we all know cats are very special creatures unlike all others. I personally would try the med if the vet was really confident in it. I like that your vet is willing to think outside the very small box of feline cardiomyopathy treatment. I understand your hesitancy on using this drug. I would feel the same way but I would have tried anything to give my Alec just a few more hours, days, weeks, etc. given a reasonable amount of assurance on safety.

        Gerald was on a low dose of lasix and unfortunately with this disease, the dosage will increase with time and progression of the disease. Do you have Gerald on any supplements like CoEnzyme Q10, taurine, etc? You could always just wait and see how the new lasix dosage does for a while. This is a hard call. And I don't know if I was any help but I hope so.

        Leah and her cats and Angel Alec




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      • sunlightjs1
        Our Puddy started taking Pimobendan last year when his condition was deteriorating and he was not able to enjoy his life as he had before. At that time the
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 8, 2006
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          Our Puddy started taking Pimobendan last year when his condition was
          deteriorating and he was not able to enjoy his life as he had
          before. At that time the vet had given him only a few months to
          live. She explained that there was a small possibility that it
          could shorten his life and that it is a personal choice as to
          whether you are willing to take that risk to improve the quality of
          the time. In our case we decided it was worth the risk. Within a
          couple of days after starting the medicine he was so much happier.
          At the next checkup the vet said that his signs had improved so much
          that she could not even give an estimate as to how long he might
          have left. After about a year some new homeopathic remedies started
          to work and we were able to take him off the drug. In his case it
          definitely helped when he needed it.

          Jill

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Barry Yeoman" <byeoman@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi, everyone. Can we revisit the question of Pimobendan?
          >
          > Gerald (see link below to his picture) is 13 years old with HCM,
          and
          > has been in and out of CHF. Back in May, his lungs were full of
          fluid,
          > but a low dose of Lasix (6.25 mg/day) cleared them up quickly. (He
          is
          > also taking atenolol, enalapril, baby aspirin, and fragmin.)
          >
          > Last night, I rushed him to the emergency clinic at the North
          Carolina
          > State University vet school after he started hyperventilating.
          Alas,
          > the Lasix had started failing at the low dose, and his lungs were
          full
          > again. After several hours of intravenous Lasix, sedation, and
          oxygen,
          > he returned to normal and was released this afternoon. His dosage
          of
          > Lasix has been quadrupled temporarily.
          >
          > The vet tells me that if the Lasix fails again, it will be time to
          put
          > him on Pimobendan. I'm not crazy about the idea of a drug that
          lists
          > "sudden death" as a possible side effect. But the vet at NC State
          says
          > she has prescribed Pimobendan to many cats and only suspects it in
          two
          > deaths. In both cases, the cats had such severe CHF that they would
          > have died soon anyway.
          >
          > Gerald's personal vet says she has seen miracles with dogs taking
          > Pimobendan. But she doesn't know much about the drug and cats.
          >
          > I'm hoping that, since the last posts about Pimobendan, more of you
          > will have had experience with it. What can you advise?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Barry
          >
          > P.S. Gerald's picture is at
          http://barryyeoman.com/images/gerald.JPG
          >
        • Susan Burns
          hi barry.....i recall reading a post about pimobendan while roger rags was still alive, and i thought perhaps that i had stumbled upon information about a drug
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 9, 2006
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            hi barry.....i recall reading a post about pimobendan while roger rags was still alive, and i thought perhaps that i had stumbled upon information about a drug that would solve all of our problems.....alas, both of his cardios burst my bubble by stating emphatically that it was not appropriate, in fact contraindicated, for a cat with hcm (roger's hcm later morphed into rcm).....i hope that you will find it helpful for gerald.....susan

            Barry Yeoman <byeoman@...> wrote: Hi, everyone. Can we revisit the question of Pimobendan?




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          • renalie_ren_wren
            Hello everyone. I want to extend my condolences to Meredith. I am pretty new here, but remember Angel Monkey. I haven t posted in a couple of weeks, but I
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 2, 2006
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              Hello everyone.

              I want to extend my condolences to Meredith. I am pretty new here, but remember Angel
              Monkey.

              I haven't posted in a couple of weeks, but I have news.

              My cat Wolfgang has HCM and CRF. Thanks to the support of this group, I stood up to
              Wolfgangs cardiologist who only wanted to treat Wolfgang with Lasix.

              I am pleased to announce that we are now working together, and not fighting.

              The bad news is Wolfgang is still in CHF. His last echo showed his heart to be the same
              (moderate).

              Wolfgang started enalapril (thanks to this group) and his Lasix is now up to 11mg 2x a
              day.

              Last week he still had no appetite, and still had slight labored breathing. This week he has
              been doing a lot better. His appetite has increased, and his resps have gone down. Yeah
              Wolfgang!

              Last week Wolfgangs cardiologist checked in. He was disappointed to hear that there had
              been no real improvement. Wolfgang has been in CHF since September.

              We are going to try a new drug. It is not approved by the FDA for use in cats yet. The
              research was done with dogs has been dramatic. This drug is called Pimobendan. It is
              manufactured by Vet Medin. It has recently been approved for use in dogs with DCM. My
              cardiologist has had success with his dog patients on this drug. My cardiologist was the
              first in this state to try it on a cat. Over a year ago he tried it on two cats with serious
              DCM, and both are doing well today. It has not been tried on a cat with HCM. Wolfgang
              will be the first. We are waiting for FDA approval. It has not been proven that Pimobendan
              will extend his life, but there is evidence that it improves the quality. It increases appetite,
              and kidney function (lower creatinine #). It sounds too good to be true.

              Again, this drug has only been used in dogs with DCM. We don't know that it will work for
              Wolfgang.

              Has anyone heard of this drug?

              The only risk is sudden death, but that is rare. I feel the risk is worth trying to improve
              Wolfgangs quality of life.

              As I get more information, I will post it here.

              I also have a question about Q10. Wolfgang is on 30mgs. Over at the Senior Cat group I
              mentioned L-carnitine. The moderator was quite interested, and had a question about
              giving salmon oil and vitamin E with Q10. Any opinions?

              Today is Wolfgangs 13th birthday. Kisses for Wolfgang! Actually, everyday I have him is a
              treasure.

              ~Renalie
            • Susan Burns
              hi renalie.....this will be a quickie, as i m needing to rush off to an appointment......my heart kitty, roger rags, also had hcm (severe).....he had not one,
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 2, 2006
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                hi renalie.....this will be a quickie, as i'm needing
                to rush off to an appointment......my heart kitty,
                roger rags, also had hcm (severe).....he had not one,
                but two, board certified cardiologists working on his
                behalf, and when i read about pimobenden on this list,
                i thought that i had discovered the drug that could
                save his life.....both cardiologists were very, very
                clear with me about pimobenden being absolutely
                contraindicated for hcm.....perhaps things have
                changed, but i would approach this with caution, and
                after much googling and research......all the best to
                you and wolfgang.....susan


                > We are going to try a new drug. It is not approved
                > by the FDA for use in cats yet. The
                > research was done with dogs has been dramatic. This
                > drug is called Pimobendan. It is
                > manufactured by Vet Medin. It has recently been
                > approved for use in dogs with DCM. My
                > cardiologist has had success with his dog patients
                > on this drug. My cardiologist was the
                > first in this state to try it on a cat. Over a year
                > ago he tried it on two cats with serious
                > DCM, and both are doing well today. It has not been
                > tried on a cat with HCM. Wolfgang
                > will be the first. We are waiting for FDA approval.
                > It has not been proven that Pimobendan
                > will extend his life, but there is evidence that it
                > improves the quality. It increases appetite,
                > and kidney function (lower creatinine #). It sounds
                > too good to be true.
                >
                > Has anyone heard of this drug?
                >
                > The only risk is sudden death, but that is rare. I
                > feel the risk is worth trying to improve
                > Wolfgangs quality of life.
                >
                > As I get more information, I will post it here.
                >
                > I also have a question about Q10. Wolfgang is on
                > 30mgs. Over at the Senior Cat group I
                > mentioned L-carnitine. The moderator was quite
                > interested, and had a question about
                > giving salmon oil and vitamin E with Q10. Any
                > opinions?
                >
                > Today is Wolfgangs 13th birthday. Kisses for
                > Wolfgang! Actually, everyday I have him is a
                > treasure.
                >
                > ~Renalie
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >




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              • nala nala
                HI Renalie - Happy Birthday to Wolfgang! I am so glad that you were assertive with the treatment of Wolfgang and that he is on more than just lasix!
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 2, 2006
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                  HI Renalie -

                  Happy Birthday to Wolfgang!

                  I am so glad that you were assertive with the
                  treatment of Wolfgang and that he is on more than just
                  lasix! Congratulations to you for standing up for
                  your boy!

                  I am sorry that he is still not thriving. According
                  to my vet, the dose of lasix is anywhere from 2.2 to
                  4.4 mg/kg 2x per day (although I have also read
                  2-4mg/kg 3x/day). I don't know how much Wolfgang
                  weighs, but you might be able to up his lasix, but I
                  would check this out with my vet before doing so. (1
                  kg is about 2.2 lbs so for a 10 lb cat 10/2.2=4.5 kg .
                  . . 4.5 x 4.4 = 19.8 mg) You might also ask about
                  spironolactone (an aldosterone receptor antagonist)
                  that also has diuretic effects.

                  This link is to a human study but summarizes a lot of
                  more general information as well. I included a small
                  excerpt.

                  http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00291720;jsessionid=39003F4BAF070BE53CC3C8672C8C2E5A?order=9


                  "Plasma aldosterone concentrations are increased in
                  animal models of CRF as well as in patients with even
                  mild renal impairment and several lines of evidence
                  point to major role of aldosterone in promoting
                  progressive renal dysfunction. Observational studies
                  in patients with primary hyperaldosteronism found the
                  prevalence and degree of proteinuria to be greater
                  than in patients with essential hypertension. Several
                  experimental animal models are consistent with the
                  concept that aldosterone can mediate renal injury. In
                  patients with diabetic nephropathy and aldosterone
                  escape despite ACE inhibitor therapy, aldosterone
                  blockade significantly reduced proteinuria with no
                  change in blood pressure. Little attention has been
                  paid however, to the potentially beneficial effects of
                  aldosterone antagonism on the cardiovascular system in
                  renal failure. In a single, small uncontrolled study
                  of 13 patients with diabetic nephropathy on
                  established ACE inhibitor therapy, left ventricular
                  mass index was significantly reduced after 24 weeks of
                  treatment with spironolactone."

                  ----
                  Pimobendan

                  There has been a little bit of discussion of this drug
                  if you go back to the message board and search for
                  "Pimobendan". I include some highlights below - of
                  course they are contradictory, but such is the case
                  with so many things. I hope they help with your
                  decision:

                  Susan with Roger Rags wrote previously that:

                  May 2005
                  "i asked her about the pimobendan that kevin spoke of
                  this past
                  week, and she tells me that it is absolutely
                  contraindicated for hcm, as it actually speeds up the
                  heart..."

                  Aug 2006
                  "recall reading a post about pimobendan while roger
                  rags was still
                  alive, and i thought perhaps that i had stumbled upon
                  information about a drug
                  that would solve all of our problems.....alas, both of
                  his cardios burst my
                  bubble by stating emphatically that it was not
                  appropriate, in fact
                  contraindicated, for a cat with hcm"
                  --
                  Jill with Puddy did have an HCM cat on Pimobendan.
                  She wrote:

                  Aug 2006

                  "Our Puddy started taking Pimobendan last year when
                  his condition was
                  deteriorating and he was not able to enjoy his life as
                  he had
                  before. At that time the vet had given him only a few
                  months to
                  live. She explained that there was a small possibility
                  that it
                  could shorten his life and that it is a personal
                  choice as to
                  whether you are willing to take that risk to improve
                  the quality of
                  the time. In our case we decided it was worth the
                  risk. Within a
                  couple of days after starting the medicine he was so
                  much happier.
                  At the next checkup the vet said that his signs had
                  improved so much
                  that she could not even give an estimate as to how
                  long he might
                  have left. After about a year some new homeopathic
                  remedies started
                  to work and we were able to take him off the drug. In
                  his case it
                  definitely helped when he needed it."

                  -Nala, Camille and Cozette

                  --- renalie_ren_wren <renalie@...> wrote:

                  > Hello everyone.
                  >
                  > I want to extend my condolences to Meredith. I am
                  > pretty new here, but remember Angel
                  > Monkey.
                  >
                  > I haven't posted in a couple of weeks, but I have
                  > news.
                  >
                  > My cat Wolfgang has HCM and CRF. Thanks to the
                  > support of this group, I stood up to
                  > Wolfgangs cardiologist who only wanted to treat
                  > Wolfgang with Lasix.
                  >
                  > I am pleased to announce that we are now working
                  > together, and not fighting.
                  >
                  > The bad news is Wolfgang is still in CHF. His last
                  > echo showed his heart to be the same
                  > (moderate).
                  >
                  > Wolfgang started enalapril (thanks to this group)
                  > and his Lasix is now up to 11mg 2x a
                  > day.
                  >
                  > Last week he still had no appetite, and still had
                  > slight labored breathing. This week he has
                  > been doing a lot better. His appetite has
                  > increased, and his resps have gone down. Yeah
                  > Wolfgang!
                  >
                  > Last week Wolfgangs cardiologist checked in. He was
                  > disappointed to hear that there had
                  > been no real improvement. Wolfgang has been in CHF
                  > since September.
                  >
                  > We are going to try a new drug. It is not approved
                  > by the FDA for use in cats yet. The
                  > research was done with dogs has been dramatic. This
                  > drug is called Pimobendan. It is
                  > manufactured by Vet Medin. It has recently been
                  > approved for use in dogs with DCM. My
                  > cardiologist has had success with his dog patients
                  > on this drug. My cardiologist was the
                  > first in this state to try it on a cat. Over a year
                  > ago he tried it on two cats with serious
                  > DCM, and both are doing well today. It has not been
                  > tried on a cat with HCM. Wolfgang
                  > will be the first. We are waiting for FDA approval.
                  > It has not been proven that Pimobendan
                  > will extend his life, but there is evidence that it
                  > improves the quality. It increases appetite,
                  > and kidney function (lower creatinine #). It sounds
                  > too good to be true.
                  >
                  > Again, this drug has only been used in dogs with
                  > DCM. We don't know that it will work for
                  > Wolfgang.
                  >
                  > Has anyone heard of this drug?
                  >
                  > The only risk is sudden death, but that is rare. I
                  > feel the risk is worth trying to improve
                  > Wolfgangs quality of life.
                  >
                  > As I get more information, I will post it here.
                  >
                  > I also have a question about Q10. Wolfgang is on
                  > 30mgs. Over at the Senior Cat group I
                  > mentioned L-carnitine. The moderator was quite
                  > interested, and had a question about
                  > giving salmon oil and vitamin E with Q10. Any
                  > opinions?
                  >
                  > Today is Wolfgangs 13th birthday. Kisses for
                  > Wolfgang! Actually, everyday I have him is a
                  > treasure.
                  >
                  > ~Renalie
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >




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                • Leah Ferron
                  Renalie, I am so glad you stood your ground and used your voice for Wolfgang. And HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Wolfgang! Excellent! You seem upset that Wolfgang is still
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 2, 2006
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                    Renalie,

                    I am so glad you stood your ground and used your voice for Wolfgang. And HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Wolfgang! Excellent!

                    You seem upset that Wolfgang is still in CHF. He may have this battle with CHF for the rest of his life. Although it can resolve with some kitties, it doesn't always. It does sound like the lasix may need to be upped or given 3x/day instead of 2x/day. A lot of kitties do better given the same amount of lasix spread out in 3 doses rather than 2. The lasix works in their body for about 6 hours after dosage. Sometimes when you wait 12 hours between dosing, rather than 8 hours, the fluid builds up more than the lasix can keep up with. I hope you understand hwat I am writing, I know it can be explained better than this.

                    Your vet was also disappointed with no improvement. I think it is GREAT that there wasn't progression of the disease! There really is no cure for HCM so all we can hope for is slowed to no progression and Wolfgang has that! That is good! Don't let your vet get you down about Wolfgang's condition. It often takes a while to get the lasix dosage just right and it will change over time too. Don't get upset over this. This is normal. I think it is really good that his appetite is up and his respirations are down. You are on the right track.

                    A few months back there was a gentleman in this group that was thinking about Pimobendan. I think ultimately he didn't use it on his kitty because like Wolfgang, his cat had HCM rather than DCM. Like Susan, he found that it was not recommended for HCM. HCM and DCM are different diseases and as such usually are treated differently with meds. I am not telling you not to use it, that is your decision. It will be risky because it is a drug that is not even tested on HCM kitties yet. You must decide if the risks are worth the benefits. If you decide to use this drug, I would be observing Wolfgang like a hawk and not be afraid to take him to the ER should the need arise. I would ask your vet about what bad side effects you should be looking for when Wolfgang is given this drug. Make sure this vet isn't using your pet for a science project so that he can publish findings for his benefit. This may sound cynical but it is worth asking the question. Ask why the vet thinks it will
                    work for HCM when studies have only said it works for DCM.

                    If you decide to use this drug, we will back you up 100%. We will cheer for you and Wolfgang. You could help a lot of kitties but be sure you are ready. Please keep us informed of your decision and Wolfgang's progess.

                    As far as your question about salmon oil and vitamin E, I know there are a lot of people that give their kitties fish oils and I am not sure about the vitamin E. I hope this helps.

                    Leah and her cats and Angel Alec





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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • sunlightjs1
                    Hi everyone. I still check in with this group from time to time even though my beautiful Puddy is no longer with us. I am happy to be reading a lot of good
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 2, 2006
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                      Hi everyone. I still check in with this group from time to time
                      even though my beautiful Puddy is no longer with us. I am happy to
                      be reading a lot of good news on everyone's kitties, although I was
                      so saddened to see the news on Monkey. I saw that you referenced my
                      e-mail on Pimobendan below. I wanted to add that although Puddy was
                      the first cat that our cardiologist used it on, she has used it for
                      various patients since. Although I unfortunately have not been in
                      touch with her since Puddy passed away in July she had mentioned to
                      me that she was having succes with the drug. I believe she might be
                      willing to speak with your doctor about her experiences (not sure if
                      there would be any charge for that). Her contact information is:

                      Tacy Rupp, DVM, MS, Diplomate ACVIM
                      Veterinary Specialists of South Florida
                      9410 Stirling Road
                      Cooper City, FL 33024
                      Phone: 954-437-9630

                      Jill

                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, nala nala <nala_zq@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > HI Renalie -
                      >
                      > Happy Birthday to Wolfgang!
                      >
                      > I am so glad that you were assertive with the
                      > treatment of Wolfgang and that he is on more than just
                      > lasix! Congratulations to you for standing up for
                      > your boy!
                      >
                      > I am sorry that he is still not thriving. According
                      > to my vet, the dose of lasix is anywhere from 2.2 to
                      > 4.4 mg/kg 2x per day (although I have also read
                      > 2-4mg/kg 3x/day). I don't know how much Wolfgang
                      > weighs, but you might be able to up his lasix, but I
                      > would check this out with my vet before doing so. (1
                      > kg is about 2.2 lbs so for a 10 lb cat 10/2.2=4.5 kg .
                      > . . 4.5 x 4.4 = 19.8 mg) You might also ask about
                      > spironolactone (an aldosterone receptor antagonist)
                      > that also has diuretic effects.
                      >
                      > This link is to a human study but summarizes a lot of
                      > more general information as well. I included a small
                      > excerpt.
                      >
                      >
                      http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00291720;jsessionid=39003F4B
                      AF070BE53CC3C8672C8C2E5A?order=9
                      >
                      >
                      > "Plasma aldosterone concentrations are increased in
                      > animal models of CRF as well as in patients with even
                      > mild renal impairment and several lines of evidence
                      > point to major role of aldosterone in promoting
                      > progressive renal dysfunction. Observational studies
                      > in patients with primary hyperaldosteronism found the
                      > prevalence and degree of proteinuria to be greater
                      > than in patients with essential hypertension. Several
                      > experimental animal models are consistent with the
                      > concept that aldosterone can mediate renal injury. In
                      > patients with diabetic nephropathy and aldosterone
                      > escape despite ACE inhibitor therapy, aldosterone
                      > blockade significantly reduced proteinuria with no
                      > change in blood pressure. Little attention has been
                      > paid however, to the potentially beneficial effects of
                      > aldosterone antagonism on the cardiovascular system in
                      > renal failure. In a single, small uncontrolled study
                      > of 13 patients with diabetic nephropathy on
                      > established ACE inhibitor therapy, left ventricular
                      > mass index was significantly reduced after 24 weeks of
                      > treatment with spironolactone."
                      >
                      > ----
                      > Pimobendan
                      >
                      > There has been a little bit of discussion of this drug
                      > if you go back to the message board and search for
                      > "Pimobendan". I include some highlights below - of
                      > course they are contradictory, but such is the case
                      > with so many things. I hope they help with your
                      > decision:
                      >
                      > Susan with Roger Rags wrote previously that:
                      >
                      > May 2005
                      > "i asked her about the pimobendan that kevin spoke of
                      > this past
                      > week, and she tells me that it is absolutely
                      > contraindicated for hcm, as it actually speeds up the
                      > heart..."
                      >
                      > Aug 2006
                      > "recall reading a post about pimobendan while roger
                      > rags was still
                      > alive, and i thought perhaps that i had stumbled upon
                      > information about a drug
                      > that would solve all of our problems.....alas, both of
                      > his cardios burst my
                      > bubble by stating emphatically that it was not
                      > appropriate, in fact
                      > contraindicated, for a cat with hcm"
                      > --
                      > Jill with Puddy did have an HCM cat on Pimobendan.
                      > She wrote:
                      >
                      > Aug 2006
                      >
                      > "Our Puddy started taking Pimobendan last year when
                      > his condition was
                      > deteriorating and he was not able to enjoy his life as
                      > he had
                      > before. At that time the vet had given him only a few
                      > months to
                      > live. She explained that there was a small possibility
                      > that it
                      > could shorten his life and that it is a personal
                      > choice as to
                      > whether you are willing to take that risk to improve
                      > the quality of
                      > the time. In our case we decided it was worth the
                      > risk. Within a
                      > couple of days after starting the medicine he was so
                      > much happier.
                      > At the next checkup the vet said that his signs had
                      > improved so much
                      > that she could not even give an estimate as to how
                      > long he might
                      > have left. After about a year some new homeopathic
                      > remedies started
                      > to work and we were able to take him off the drug. In
                      > his case it
                      > definitely helped when he needed it."
                      >
                      > -Nala, Camille and Cozette
                      >
                      > --- renalie_ren_wren <renalie@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Hello everyone.
                      > >
                      > > I want to extend my condolences to Meredith. I am
                      > > pretty new here, but remember Angel
                      > > Monkey.
                      > >
                      > > I haven't posted in a couple of weeks, but I have
                      > > news.
                      > >
                      > > My cat Wolfgang has HCM and CRF. Thanks to the
                      > > support of this group, I stood up to
                      > > Wolfgangs cardiologist who only wanted to treat
                      > > Wolfgang with Lasix.
                      > >
                      > > I am pleased to announce that we are now working
                      > > together, and not fighting.
                      > >
                      > > The bad news is Wolfgang is still in CHF. His last
                      > > echo showed his heart to be the same
                      > > (moderate).
                      > >
                      > > Wolfgang started enalapril (thanks to this group)
                      > > and his Lasix is now up to 11mg 2x a
                      > > day.
                      > >
                      > > Last week he still had no appetite, and still had
                      > > slight labored breathing. This week he has
                      > > been doing a lot better. His appetite has
                      > > increased, and his resps have gone down. Yeah
                      > > Wolfgang!
                      > >
                      > > Last week Wolfgangs cardiologist checked in. He was
                      > > disappointed to hear that there had
                      > > been no real improvement. Wolfgang has been in CHF
                      > > since September.
                      > >
                      > > We are going to try a new drug. It is not approved
                      > > by the FDA for use in cats yet. The
                      > > research was done with dogs has been dramatic. This
                      > > drug is called Pimobendan. It is
                      > > manufactured by Vet Medin. It has recently been
                      > > approved for use in dogs with DCM. My
                      > > cardiologist has had success with his dog patients
                      > > on this drug. My cardiologist was the
                      > > first in this state to try it on a cat. Over a year
                      > > ago he tried it on two cats with serious
                      > > DCM, and both are doing well today. It has not been
                      > > tried on a cat with HCM. Wolfgang
                      > > will be the first. We are waiting for FDA approval.
                      > > It has not been proven that Pimobendan
                      > > will extend his life, but there is evidence that it
                      > > improves the quality. It increases appetite,
                      > > and kidney function (lower creatinine #). It sounds
                      > > too good to be true.
                      > >
                      > > Again, this drug has only been used in dogs with
                      > > DCM. We don't know that it will work for
                      > > Wolfgang.
                      > >
                      > > Has anyone heard of this drug?
                      > >
                      > > The only risk is sudden death, but that is rare. I
                      > > feel the risk is worth trying to improve
                      > > Wolfgangs quality of life.
                      > >
                      > > As I get more information, I will post it here.
                      > >
                      > > I also have a question about Q10. Wolfgang is on
                      > > 30mgs. Over at the Senior Cat group I
                      > > mentioned L-carnitine. The moderator was quite
                      > > interested, and had a question about
                      > > giving salmon oil and vitamin E with Q10. Any
                      > > opinions?
                      > >
                      > > Today is Wolfgangs 13th birthday. Kisses for
                      > > Wolfgang! Actually, everyday I have him is a
                      > > treasure.
                      > >
                      > > ~Renalie
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      _____________________________________________________________________
                      _______________
                      > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small
                      Business
                      > (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)
                      >
                    • Renalie Bailey
                      Hello there Nala. Wolfgang weighs 12 lbs, but has slowly been losing weight. His cardiologist told me that we could go all the way up to 40mg of Lasix daily.
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 4, 2006
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                        Hello there Nala.
                        Wolfgang weighs 12 lbs, but has slowly been losing weight. His
                        cardiologist told me that we could go all the way up to 40mg of Lasix
                        daily. He is taking 11mgs 2x a day now, but I have been given
                        permission to give him more as needed. We had a pretty good week, but
                        today his resps were pretty high so I gave him an extra 8mg mid day.
                        His breathing has improved.

                        >>>>>>>>You might also ask about
                        spironolactone (an aldosterone receptor antagonist)
                        that also has diuretic effects.

                        His cardiologist is finally open to a different combo of diuretics. I
                        am going to have a phone conference with him on Monday to discuss
                        Pimobendan, and I am going to also ask to start him onTorasemide.

                        Thank you for wishing Wolfie a happy birthday.

                        I did a Pimobendan search on this list, and it really helped, so thank
                        you for your suggestion.

                        I also wanted to thank you for posting the info on torasemide. I will
                        share whatever info I get with this group.

                        ~Renalie
                      • Renalie Bailey
                        Hi Leah. ... Wolfgang. And HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Wolfgang! Excellent! Thank you! You gave me a lot of support, I m glad I did it. I confronted his cardiologist
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 4, 2006
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                          Hi Leah.

                          >>>>>>>I am so glad you stood your ground and used your voice for
                          Wolfgang. And HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Wolfgang! Excellent!

                          Thank you! You gave me a lot of support, I'm glad I did it. I
                          confronted his cardiologist on the phone. Wolfgang was not doing well,
                          and no one was calling me back. I left a demanding message at the
                          cardiologist's department, and was called back immediately. It was an
                          ugly, uncomfortable conversation. It ended with his cardiologist
                          telling me that I have to take responsibility for the research I do.
                          He clearly let me know that he was against putting Wolfgang on an ACE
                          I, and it was now on my head.

                          We had a follow up appointment two weeks later. It was quite awkward
                          at first. When his cardiologist saw how poorly Wolfgang was doing, his
                          demeanor quickly changed. This was Wolfgangs fifth appointment in two
                          months. We keep upping his Lasix, but it just doesn't seem to be
                          working anymore. I came prepared to this visit with a list of
                          questions, and armed with my Merck Veterinary manual. I had
                          highlighted articles of interest, and paper clipped these pages for
                          easy access.

                          His cardiologist was now impressed. I think he realized that I was
                          serious and devoted to the best care for Wolfgang.

                          We did a blood test to make sure his kidneys were ok. I am pleased to
                          report that two weeks post enalapril, Wolfgangs creatinine went down!
                          It was at 3.4, and was now at 2.9. His Bun was even better.

                          Unfortunately his x-rays showed a lot of fluid in his lungs. More
                          fluid then in the previous four visits. This appointment took three
                          hours. His cardiologist was trying really hard to work with me now.
                          He even brought out his books with more recent articles for me to read.
                          He told me he was open to switching diuretics if I want, but
                          recommended getting Wolfgang out of CHF first.

                          He phoned me last week to check in. I reported that Wolfgang was not
                          eating well, and his resps were still a bit labored. That is when he
                          brought up Pimobendan. He told me it was for DCM, but helps with CHF.
                          He also said that it helps increase appetite, and was good for kidney
                          function. He invited me to research pimobendan on my own (wow! times
                          sure have changed) and report any concerns back to him. He stressed
                          that he has not used this drug on a HCM cat, but thought it was worth a
                          try.

                          >>>>>>>>You seem upset that Wolfgang is still in CHF. He may have this
                          battle with CHF for the rest of his life. Although it can resolve with
                          some kitties, it doesn't always. It does sound like the lasix may need
                          to be upped or given 3x/day instead of 2x/day.

                          I guess all of these visits are taking their toll on me. Wolfgang was
                          doing so well this summer. It was a blow to find out that his HCM was
                          not resolved with the I131. I secretly believed that he just needed
                          more time. His regular vet told me that sometimes it can take as long
                          as 8 months to see significant improvement post I131.

                          It was September 1st that Wolfgang went into CHF. We keep giving him
                          more Lasix, but he is slowly getting worse. After each appointment
                          (with an injection of lasix) I go home feeling like I did a good thing.
                          I hate tripling his lasix, but believe it will help, so it's
                          frustrating watching him get worse.

                          Leah, thank you for the suggestion of giving him lasix 3x a day. I
                          think that will help.

                          >>>>>>It often takes a while to get the lasix dosage just right and it
                          will change over time too. Don't get upset over this. This is normal.

                          This is why I love this group. I didn't know this was normal.

                          Thank you again Leah. I really appreciate the info you take the time
                          to share.

                          ~Renalie
                        • Renalie Bailey
                          Hi Jill. I am so sorry about Puddy. Thank you for giving me the name of your cardiologist. I will pass that on to mine on monday. ~Renalie
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 4, 2006
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                            Hi Jill.

                            I am so sorry about Puddy.

                            Thank you for giving me the name of your cardiologist. I will pass
                            that on to mine on monday.

                            ~Renalie
                          • Renalie Bailey
                            ... I am glad his breathing has improved with the extra lasix. I will be very interested to read what you find out about the torsemide. -Nala Hello Nala. I
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 7, 2006
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                              >>>>>>>Renalie-

                              I am glad his breathing has improved with the extra
                              lasix.
                              I will be very interested to read what you find out
                              about
                              the torsemide.

                              -Nala


                              Hello Nala. I had a phone conference with Wolfgang's cardiologist
                              yesterday. I have made a decision to start him on Pimobendan. I asked
                              his cardiologist if he had heard of torsemide, and he hadn't. He also
                              wants to wait a week to try anything new on pimobendan. I understand
                              that, but I really want to try torsemide.

                              I will keep you updated on anything I find out.

                              ~Renalie
                            • hipjill2@webtv.net
                              I would like to thank everyone that replied to me about this drug. It sounds like Oliver and Puddy have done well on this medication. But I still have a
                              Message 14 of 22 , Oct 5, 2007
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                                I would like to thank everyone that replied to me about this drug. It
                                sounds like Oliver and Puddy have done well on this medication. But I
                                still have a question. So what would cause this drug to bring sudden
                                death to a cat or shorten their life span.
                              • Diane Olsen
                                The way my Vet explained it to me, had nothing to do with sudden death in animals. The study, which was done in the States with small group of people with bad
                                Message 15 of 22 , Oct 6, 2007
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                                  The way my Vet explained it to me, had nothing to do with sudden death in animals.

                                  The study, which was done in the States with small group of people with bad heart disease. A small percentage of them died. It was never determined if it was the pimo, but the FDA pull it.
                                  Who knows if these people would have died either way.

                                  The rest of the world uses it, in humans and animals.
                                  And I so thankful my vet gave it to me last March.

                                  My question is: I've been buying mine from Canada, has anyone in the US bought it yet, and if so, what was the price??

                                  Have a great day all
                                  Diane and Kerrigan




                                  ---------------------------------
                                  Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
                                  Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Renee Babcock
                                  I just purchased some this past week from my vet. I forget the dose/pill size, but it s a brown pill, and I m giving Kitsu half of a pill per day. She gave
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Oct 6, 2007
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                                    I just purchased some this past week from my vet. I
                                    forget the dose/pill size, but it's a brown pill, and
                                    I'm giving Kitsu half of a pill per day. She gave me
                                    15 pills (30 day supply) and it cost $21.

                                    Renee
                                    --- Diane Olsen <queenmumsie@...> wrote:

                                    > The way my Vet explained it to me, had nothing to do
                                    > with sudden death in animals.
                                    >
                                    > The study, which was done in the States with small
                                    > group of people with bad heart disease. A small
                                    > percentage of them died. It was never determined if
                                    > it was the pimo, but the FDA pull it.
                                    > Who knows if these people would have died either
                                    > way.
                                    >
                                    > The rest of the world uses it, in humans and
                                    > animals.
                                    > And I so thankful my vet gave it to me last March.
                                    >
                                    > My question is: I've been buying mine from Canada,
                                    > has anyone in the US bought it yet, and if so, what
                                    > was the price??
                                    >
                                    > Have a great day all
                                    > Diane and Kerrigan
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ---------------------------------
                                    > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! -
                                    > their life, your story.
                                    > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If
                                    > you feel your reply will benefit the entire group,
                                    > please change the "To:" line to
                                    > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >




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                                  • MarisaKatnic@aol.com
                                    Diane, I too, buy the Pimobendan from Canada. I get 100 2.5 mg. capsules for about $70 (that includes shipping). It s expensive stuff, isn t it? The U.S.
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Oct 6, 2007
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                                      Diane,

                                      I too, buy the Pimobendan from Canada. I get 100 2.5 mg. capsules for about
                                      $70 (that includes shipping). It's expensive stuff, isn't it? The U.S.
                                      does not sell the 2.5 mg. tablets thus far but rather the 5 mg. (It's a huge
                                      pill and not worthy of cutting in half) and they have a smaller size, I think
                                      it's a 1.25 mg. tablet. I've found the cost here in the U.S. to be about the
                                      same from my Vet or 1-800-PetMeds.

                                      How long has Kerrigan been taking the Pimo?

                                      Best wishes,

                                      Marisa and Oliver






                                      ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Renee Babcock
                                      I double checked the size of the Pimobendan that I got from my vet, and it s the 1.25mg size. Since I got 15 tablets (giving half a tablet per day), my cost
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Oct 7, 2007
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                                        I double checked the size of the Pimobendan that I got
                                        from my vet, and it's the 1.25mg size. Since I got 15
                                        tablets (giving half a tablet per day), my cost was
                                        $1.40 per pill.

                                        Renee

                                        --- MarisaKatnic@... wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Diane,
                                        >
                                        > I too, buy the Pimobendan from Canada. I get 100
                                        > 2.5 mg. capsules for about
                                        > $70 (that includes shipping). It's expensive
                                        > stuff, isn't it? The U.S.
                                        > does not sell the 2.5 mg. tablets thus far but
                                        > rather the 5 mg. (It's a huge
                                        > pill and not worthy of cutting in half) and they
                                        > have a smaller size, I think
                                        > it's a 1.25 mg. tablet. I've found the cost here in
                                        > the U.S. to be about the
                                        > same from my Vet or 1-800-PetMeds.
                                        >
                                        > How long has Kerrigan been taking the Pimo?
                                        >
                                        > Best wishes,
                                        >
                                        > Marisa and Oliver
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ************************************** See what's
                                        > new at http://www.aol.com
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                        > removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If
                                        > you feel your reply will benefit the entire group,
                                        > please change the "To:" line to
                                        > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
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                                        >
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                                      • elfinmyst@aol.com
                                        Hi Trixi takes pimobendan (vetmedin). She had a heart attack due to a clot in 2009 and was really very poorly with no chance at all. I was asked if she could
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Nov 17, 2010
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                                          Hi

                                          Trixi takes pimobendan (vetmedin). She had a heart attack due to a clot in
                                          2009 and was really very poorly with no chance at all. I was asked if she
                                          could try pimobendan with her other drugs and we really had nothing to lose.
                                          She also takes spiro, fortekor, plavix, atenolol and lasix and a potassium
                                          supplement when needed. She's still with us and the Vetmedin had no side
                                          effects at all. I can't be sure if her recovery was due to that, and now her
                                          heart HCM is progressing and getting worse, but it has certainly given her
                                          a few more months if not years.

                                          Lyn

                                          _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • kaisercrd
                                          Hi everybody! I am new to this group. My cat Kaiser, 16 and 5 month has been diagnosed with CRD about two years ago. I gave him subQ fluids which helped a lot
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Feb 19, 2013
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                                            Hi everybody!
                                            I am new to this group.
                                            My cat Kaiser, 16 and 5 month has been diagnosed with CRD about two years ago.
                                            I gave him subQ fluids which helped a lot but lately he got mild cardiomyopathie and mild pericardial effusion, due to the treatment with Luis, I guess.

                                            The cardiologist prescribed pimobendan, at about 0.17/kg 2x daily
                                            I was very reluctant to give it to him because of possible side effects and sudden death I had read about, but after one month of trying homeopathic medications I decided to give him pimobendan .

                                            He's heart works better, but he is sleeping ALL day!
                                            He eats, purrs, and sleeps.

                                            Has anybody experienced similar behavior?
                                            Does it get better with the time?
                                            I don't know if to continue or stop the medication..

                                            Thanks for your help,
                                            Daniela & Kaiser
                                          • elfinmyst
                                            Hi Daniela Has your cat had an ultrasound to diagnose the heart condition. if not, I would ask to see a cardiologist and have one done so that you can find out
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Feb 19, 2013
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                                              Hi Daniela

                                              Has your cat had an ultrasound to diagnose the heart condition. if not, I
                                              would ask to see a cardiologist and have one done so that you can find out
                                              what would help most. You now need to balance the heart and kidneys.

                                              I have two cats on pimobendan. Both are very serious heart cases and one
                                              was given it as a last resort with no chance to live and pulled through.
                                              Milli and Trixi have had it with a mix of other medications for years with no
                                              side effects at all. The sleepiness should go away in a few days to a week.
                                              To me it was a miracle drug.

                                              :) Lyn

                                              _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Pablo Frank
                                              never had any problem with pimobendan, and my cat 3.5 years old takes it since being 3 months old. She has VSD, tricospide and pulmonary artery hypertension.
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Feb 19, 2013
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                                                never had any problem with pimobendan, and my cat 3.5 years old takes it since being 3 months old. She has VSD, tricospide and pulmonary artery hypertension.

                                                To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                                From: epsteindaniela@...
                                                Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:53:36 +0000
                                                Subject: [FH] Pimobendan


























                                                Hi everybody!

                                                I am new to this group.

                                                My cat Kaiser, 16 and 5 month has been diagnosed with CRD about two years ago.

                                                I gave him subQ fluids which helped a lot but lately he got mild cardiomyopathie and mild pericardial effusion, due to the treatment with Luis, I guess.



                                                The cardiologist prescribed pimobendan, at about 0.17/kg 2x daily

                                                I was very reluctant to give it to him because of possible side effects and sudden death I had read about, but after one month of trying homeopathic medications I decided to give him pimobendan .



                                                He's heart works better, but he is sleeping ALL day!

                                                He eats, purrs, and sleeps.



                                                Has anybody experienced similar behavior?

                                                Does it get better with the time?

                                                I don't know if to continue or stop the medication..



                                                Thanks for your help,

                                                Daniela & Kaiser


















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