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RE: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn

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  • Jonathan Rosenberg
    I m sorry to hear about Harry s heart condition. I m not a vet & I hesitate to disagree with one (especially a cardiologist), but the statement that ... we
    Message 1 of 17 , May 6, 2001
      I'm sorry to hear about Harry's heart condition.

      I'm not a vet & I hesitate to disagree with one (especially a cardiologist),
      but the statement that

      ... we would most likely notice a downturn when his
      hindlegs were paralyzed from a clot ...

      is quite strange to me. I had a cat that had severe heart disease & threw
      several clots & I did a lot of research when he threw his first clot. First
      of all, the vast majority of cats with heart problems (even with severe
      conditions) never throw a clot. In addition, no one knows how to tell which
      cats with heart problems are more likely to throw clots. Lastly, if your
      cat does throw a clot, it can lodge in one of many places, only one of which
      causes hindleg paralysis.

      The symptoms you describe could be many things, but given his good checkup
      this past week, I would suspect something non-heart related. I would get
      him to the vet 1st thing tomorrow morning.

      Please let us know what you find out.

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Begete@... [mailto:Begete@...]
      > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 9:51 AM
      > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn
      >
      >
      > Harry (HCM) who was given 6 months at best last Decemeber had been doing
      > really well until yesterday. The visiting vet, who monitors his lungs and
      > weight and confers with the cardiologist could not even hear the
      > murmur when
      > he was here Wednesday.
      > And Harry continued to be as active and playful as a kitten with
      > no signs at
      > all of any illness.
      >
      > Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and
      > playing. I found
      > some liquidy vomit on the floor (but we have two cats so am not
      > absolutely
      > sure it was Harry's - no hairball). He actually hissed at me when
      > I tried to
      > pick him up, and seemed not to be able to walk more than a few
      > feet before
      > lying down. When he does walk, he is not limping. He also seems
      > quite a bit
      > lighter. and he seems to be licking his lips a lot - as if he was thristy.
      >
      > Last night we had roast chicken for dinner which Harry loves, and he ate
      > quite a lot of it. he seems a little better this morning, and did eat
      > breakfast, though I had to lift him to the counter where he usually eats.
      >
      > Our cardiologist said that we would most likely notice a downturn
      > when his
      > hindlegs were paralyzed from a clot, but that is not what is going on. Is
      > what I am describing also identifyable as the "end" for a HCM
      > cat? or does
      > this sound more like he ate a bug and it upset his tummy?
      >
      > I would call the vet but no one is there on Sundays, and a trip to the ER
      > would stress him a lot.
      >
      > Thanx for any ideas, opinions.
      > b
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
    • Begete@aol.com
      First - I thank you all for the replies. Harry seems a little better today; not back to normal but he is eating a little more and isn t quite as off . I
      Message 2 of 17 , May 6, 2001
        First - I thank you all for the replies.

        Harry seems a little better today; not back to "normal" but he is eating a
        little more and isn't quite as "off".

        I also tend to think it not not related to the HCM, but perhaps he ate a bug
        or chewed a plant and that disagreed with him.

        I also thought of constipation, and since he will not take the meds for that,
        I gave him some butter.

        The vet looked carefully at his teeth on Wednesday as he seems to be
        "teething" even though a 3 year old cat already has all his teeth as he has
        been chewing on anything rubbery he can find. The vet said his teeth and gums
        looked fine, but maybe he chewed on something that made him ill. Our cats are
        indoor cats, but do have the run of the house.

        Hopefully he will continue to improve. he has his 6 month recheck with the
        cardiologist in June, but our vet confers with her anytime we are concerned.

        Again, thanx for the kind thoughts and support.

        Babette


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Begete@aol.com
        Forgot to mention: when my husband took the leftover chicken out of the fridge, Harry leaped up onto the counter in anticipation - so he can leap when he
        Message 3 of 17 , May 6, 2001
          Forgot to mention: when my husband took the leftover chicken out of the
          fridge, Harry leaped up onto the counter in anticipation - so he can leap
          when he really wants to - and given that he is a clever little guy (Harry,
          not the husband) - maybe he just got tired of cat food and is playing sick
          knowing that we always coddle him and give him home made people food when he
          isn't well :-)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • the chunns
          Glad to hear Harry is improving - seems like we are always living on the edge with these little heart patients! Pat ... From: To:
          Message 4 of 17 , May 6, 2001
            Glad to hear Harry is improving - seems like we are always
            living on the edge with these little heart patients!

            Pat
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <Begete@...>
            To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 1:44 PM
            Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn


            > First - I thank you all for the replies.
            >
            > Harry seems a little better today; not back to "normal" but he is eating a
            > little more and isn't quite as "off".
            >
            > I also tend to think it not not related to the HCM, but perhaps he ate a
            bug
            > or chewed a plant and that disagreed with him.
            >
            > I also thought of constipation, and since he will not take the meds for
            that,
            > I gave him some butter.
            >
            > The vet looked carefully at his teeth on Wednesday as he seems to be
            > "teething" even though a 3 year old cat already has all his teeth as he
            has
            > been chewing on anything rubbery he can find. The vet said his teeth and
            gums
            > looked fine, but maybe he chewed on something that made him ill. Our cats
            are
            > indoor cats, but do have the run of the house.
            >
            > Hopefully he will continue to improve. he has his 6 month recheck with the
            > cardiologist in June, but our vet confers with her anytime we are
            concerned.
            >
            > Again, thanx for the kind thoughts and support.
            >
            > Babette
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • Anyes Moscrip
            ... It sounds like possible fluid build up in the lungs, or chest cavity if the breathing is normal. That would hide the murmur temporarily and it would cause
            Message 5 of 17 , May 6, 2001
              Begete@... wrote:

              > Harry (HCM) who was given 6 months at best last Decemeber had been doing
              > really well until yesterday. The visiting vet, who monitors his lungs and
              > weight and confers with the cardiologist could not even hear the murmur when
              > he was here Wednesday.
              >
              > Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and playing. I found
              > some liquidy vomit on the floor (but we have two cats so am not absolutely
              > sure it was Harry's - no hairball). He actually hissed at me when I tried to
              > pick him up, and seemed not to be able to walk more than a few feet before
              > lying down. When he does walk, he is not limping. He also seems quite a bit
              > lighter. and he seems to be licking his lips a lot - as if he was thristy.

              It sounds like possible fluid build up in the lungs, or chest cavity if the
              breathing is normal. That would hide the murmur temporarily and it would cause
              an angry reaction when picked up. The fluids put pressure on the heart and
              lungs when you put your hand against your kitty's chest. If he squeaks,
              protests in any way, I think he has fluids in the chest cavity. If the
              breathing is normal, his lungs may not be affected yet. Is Harry using his
              lower flanks as 'bellows' with a more deliberate, slow breath? Have it checked
              out tomorrow for sure.
              Stopping eating and throwing up fluid are also signs, as is the lack of energy
              and tiredness...

              Is Harry on heart medications? and has his bp been checked lately?
              It sounds like it's time for an adjustment in his meds....

              As to the clot, what you are describing does not sound like that, and most heart
              kitties never get clots anyway...

              I hope that helps,
              Anyes, Angelica and angels Lucie and Georgina
            • Anyes Moscrip
              ... I forgot to clarify that with fluids in the chest cavity, there is pressure on the stomach and appetite disappears as the tummy feels full. With fluids
              Message 6 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                >
                > Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and playing.

                I forgot to clarify that with fluids in the chest cavity, there is pressure on
                the stomach and appetite disappears as the tummy feels full. With fluids in the
                lungs, the breath becomes more slow and deliberate and a kitty with fluids in
                the lungs will not lay down on its side or head upside down. With either,
                there is squeaking or protesting of some sort as the pressure is uncomfortable
                when being picked up.

                I hope that helps,
                Anyes
              • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                as i understand it, hind leg paresis is due to/most often associated iwth left atrial impairment..so does harry have that ....it wounds to me like a tummy
                Message 7 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                  as i understand it, hind leg paresis is due to/most often associated iwth
                  left atrial impairment..so does harry have that ....it wounds to me like a
                  tummy problem....give him some time to recuperate and assume that it is a
                  atummy problem and hope for the best....can you give him some pepcid???

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Begete@... [mailto:Begete@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 8:51 AM
                  To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn


                  Harry (HCM) who was given 6 months at best last Decemeber had been doing
                  really well until yesterday. The visiting vet, who monitors his lungs and
                  weight and confers with the cardiologist could not even hear the murmur when
                  he was here Wednesday.
                  And Harry continued to be as active and playful as a kitten with no signs at
                  all of any illness.

                  Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and playing. I found
                  some liquidy vomit on the floor (but we have two cats so am not absolutely
                  sure it was Harry's - no hairball). He actually hissed at me when I tried to
                  pick him up, and seemed not to be able to walk more than a few feet before
                  lying down. When he does walk, he is not limping. He also seems quite a bit
                  lighter. and he seems to be licking his lips a lot - as if he was thristy.

                  Last night we had roast chicken for dinner which Harry loves, and he ate
                  quite a lot of it. he seems a little better this morning, and did eat
                  breakfast, though I had to lift him to the counter where he usually eats.

                  Our cardiologist said that we would most likely notice a downturn when his
                  hindlegs were paralyzed from a clot, but that is not what is going on. Is
                  what I am describing also identifyable as the "end" for a HCM cat? or does
                  this sound more like he ate a bug and it upset his tummy?

                  I would call the vet but no one is there on Sundays, and a trip to the ER
                  would stress him a lot.

                  Thanx for any ideas, opinions.
                  b


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                  is he dehydrated??? ... From: Voula Augerinos [mailto:catwoman1@iprimus.com.au] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 8:57 AM To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com Subject:
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                    is he dehydrated???

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Voula Augerinos [mailto:catwoman1@...]
                    Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 8:57 AM
                    To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn


                    Hi again,
                    I forgot to tell you that licking lips is often a sign of nausea.
                    Love, Voula.

                    ----------
                    > From: Voula Augerinos <catwoman1@...>
                    > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn
                    > Date: Sunday, 06 May , 2001 23:53
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    > I wish I had some advice that would be of help. I just wanted to
                    write
                    > to say I know how scared you must be and that I am thinking of you and
                    > Harry, and praying that this is something minor, and that Harry will be
                    > back to fine form very soon.
                    > I am sure that others more knowledgable will soon reply. Please keep
                    > us posted. Could you call the ER and ask their advice?
                    > Love, Voula.
                    >
                    > ----------
                    > > From: Begete@...
                    > > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn
                    > > Date: Sunday, 06 May , 2001 23:50
                    > >
                    > > Harry (HCM) who was given 6 months at best last Decemeber had been
                    doing
                    > > really well until yesterday. The visiting vet, who monitors his lungs
                    and
                    >
                    > > weight and confers with the cardiologist could not even hear the murmur
                    > when
                    > > he was here Wednesday.
                    > > And Harry continued to be as active and playful as a kitten with no
                    signs
                    > at
                    > > all of any illness.
                    > >
                    > > Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and playing. I
                    > found
                    > > some liquidy vomit on the floor (but we have two cats so am not
                    > absolutely
                    > > sure it was Harry's - no hairball). He actually hissed at me when I
                    tried
                    > to
                    > > pick him up, and seemed not to be able to walk more than a few feet
                    > before
                    > > lying down. When he does walk, he is not limping. He also seems quite a
                    > bit
                    > > lighter. and he seems to be licking his lips a lot - as if he was
                    > thristy.
                    > >
                    > > Last night we had roast chicken for dinner which Harry loves, and he
                    ate
                    > > quite a lot of it. he seems a little better this morning, and did eat
                    > > breakfast, though I had to lift him to the counter where he usually
                    eats.
                    > >
                    > > Our cardiologist said that we would most likely notice a downturn when
                    > his
                    > > hindlegs were paralyzed from a clot, but that is not what is going on.
                    Is
                    >
                    > > what I am describing also identifyable as the "end" for a HCM cat? or
                    > does
                    > > this sound more like he ate a bug and it upset his tummy?
                    > >
                    > > I would call the vet but no one is there on Sundays, and a trip to the
                    ER
                    >
                    > > would stress him a lot.
                    > >
                    > > Thanx for any ideas, opinions.
                    > > b
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                    >

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                  • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                    do you have any plants in the house////something he could have chewed/eaten, etcx...????what kind of houseplants do you have??? ... From: Begete@aol.com
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                      do you have any plants in the house////something he could have chewed/eaten,
                      etcx...????what kind of houseplants do you have???



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Begete@... [mailto:Begete@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:45 PM
                      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn


                      First - I thank you all for the replies.

                      Harry seems a little better today; not back to "normal" but he is eating a
                      little more and isn't quite as "off".

                      I also tend to think it not not related to the HCM, but perhaps he ate a bug
                      or chewed a plant and that disagreed with him.

                      I also thought of constipation, and since he will not take the meds for
                      that,
                      I gave him some butter.

                      The vet looked carefully at his teeth on Wednesday as he seems to be
                      "teething" even though a 3 year old cat already has all his teeth as he has
                      been chewing on anything rubbery he can find. The vet said his teeth and
                      gums
                      looked fine, but maybe he chewed on something that made him ill. Our cats
                      are
                      indoor cats, but do have the run of the house.

                      Hopefully he will continue to improve. he has his 6 month recheck with the
                      cardiologist in June, but our vet confers with her anytime we are concerned.

                      Again, thanx for the kind thoughts and support.

                      Babette


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com



                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                      sounds like my husbnad...even if he doesn t leap onto counters... ... From: Begete@aol.com [mailto:Begete@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:47 PM To:
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                        sounds like my husbnad...even if he doesn't leap onto counters...

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Begete@... [mailto:Begete@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:47 PM
                        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn


                        Forgot to mention: when my husband took the leftover chicken out of the
                        fridge, Harry leaped up onto the counter in anticipation - so he can leap
                        when he really wants to - and given that he is a clever little guy (Harry,
                        not the husband) - maybe he just got tired of cat food and is playing sick
                        knowing that we always coddle him and give him home made people food when he
                        isn't well :-)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com



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                      • Begete@aol.com
                        In a message dated 5/6/01 8:34:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... But the symptoms occurred Saturday and he was fine on Wednesday when he had a complete checkup
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 7, 2001
                          In a message dated 5/6/01 8:34:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                          anyes@... writes:


                          > The fluids put pressure on the heart and
                          > lungs when you put your hand against your kitty's chest. If he squeaks,
                          > protests in any way, I think he has fluids in the chest cavity

                          But the symptoms occurred Saturday and he was fine on Wednesday when he had a
                          complete checkup with the vet. Can it happen that fast (the fluid buildup?).
                          I thought it was more gradual. He is fina again today. Do the fluids reduce
                          themselves?


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Anyes Moscrip
                          ... Fluids can build up in a matter of hours. Certainly from Wednesday to Saturday is more than long enough to happen. Fluids will also get reabsorbed
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 7, 2001
                            Begete@... wrote:

                            > But the symptoms occurred Saturday and he was fine on Wednesday when he had a
                            > complete checkup with the vet. Can it happen that fast (the fluid buildup?).
                            > I thought it was more gradual. He is fina again today. Do the fluids reduce
                            > themselves?
                            >

                            Fluids can build up in a matter of hours. Certainly from Wednesday to Saturday
                            is more than long enough to happen. Fluids will also get reabsorbed provided
                            that whatever caused the problem, such as giving fluids for example or stress, is
                            stopped.

                            I hope that helps,
                            Anyes, Angelica, angels Lucie and Georgina
                          • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                            i am sorry to hear about harry....i hope that all will be better soon...we will keep you and harry in our thoughts and prayers... white lites, linda and the
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 12, 2001
                              i am sorry to hear about harry....i hope that all will be better soon...we
                              will keep you and harry in our thoughts and prayers...

                              white lites,
                              linda and the boys

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Anyes Moscrip [mailto:anyes@...]
                              Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:01 PM
                              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn




                              Begete@... wrote:

                              > But the symptoms occurred Saturday and he was fine on Wednesday when he
                              had a
                              > complete checkup with the vet. Can it happen that fast (the fluid
                              buildup?).
                              > I thought it was more gradual. He is fina again today. Do the fluids
                              reduce
                              > themselves?
                              >

                              Fluids can build up in a matter of hours. Certainly from Wednesday to
                              Saturday
                              is more than long enough to happen. Fluids will also get reabsorbed
                              provided
                              that whatever caused the problem, such as giving fluids for example or
                              stress, is
                              stopped.

                              I hope that helps,
                              Anyes, Angelica, angels Lucie and Georgina



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