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Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn

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  • Voula Augerinos
    Hi again, I forgot to tell you that licking lips is often a sign of nausea. Love, Voula. ... write ... doing ... and ... signs ... tried ... ate ... eats. ...
    Message 1 of 17 , May 6, 2001
      Hi again,
      I forgot to tell you that licking lips is often a sign of nausea.
      Love, Voula.

      ----------
      > From: Voula Augerinos <catwoman1@...>
      > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn
      > Date: Sunday, 06 May , 2001 23:53
      >
      > Hi,
      > I wish I had some advice that would be of help. I just wanted to
      write
      > to say I know how scared you must be and that I am thinking of you and
      > Harry, and praying that this is something minor, and that Harry will be
      > back to fine form very soon.
      > I am sure that others more knowledgable will soon reply. Please keep
      > us posted. Could you call the ER and ask their advice?
      > Love, Voula.
      >
      > ----------
      > > From: Begete@...
      > > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn
      > > Date: Sunday, 06 May , 2001 23:50
      > >
      > > Harry (HCM) who was given 6 months at best last Decemeber had been
      doing
      > > really well until yesterday. The visiting vet, who monitors his lungs
      and
      >
      > > weight and confers with the cardiologist could not even hear the murmur
      > when
      > > he was here Wednesday.
      > > And Harry continued to be as active and playful as a kitten with no
      signs
      > at
      > > all of any illness.
      > >
      > > Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and playing. I
      > found
      > > some liquidy vomit on the floor (but we have two cats so am not
      > absolutely
      > > sure it was Harry's - no hairball). He actually hissed at me when I
      tried
      > to
      > > pick him up, and seemed not to be able to walk more than a few feet
      > before
      > > lying down. When he does walk, he is not limping. He also seems quite a
      > bit
      > > lighter. and he seems to be licking his lips a lot - as if he was
      > thristy.
      > >
      > > Last night we had roast chicken for dinner which Harry loves, and he
      ate
      > > quite a lot of it. he seems a little better this morning, and did eat
      > > breakfast, though I had to lift him to the counter where he usually
      eats.
      > >
      > > Our cardiologist said that we would most likely notice a downturn when
      > his
      > > hindlegs were paralyzed from a clot, but that is not what is going on.
      Is
      >
      > > what I am describing also identifyable as the "end" for a HCM cat? or
      > does
      > > this sound more like he ate a bug and it upset his tummy?
      > >
      > > I would call the vet but no one is there on Sundays, and a trip to the
      ER
      >
      > > would stress him a lot.
      > >
      > > Thanx for any ideas, opinions.
      > > b
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      > >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

      >
    • masaidit
      Hello, Can you call the ER hospital and explain this to them? How is Harry s breathing? If you don t think it s a clot could he have an injury? Could he
      Message 2 of 17 , May 6, 2001
        Hello,

        Can you call the ER hospital and explain this to them? How is Harry's breathing? If you don't think it's a clot could he have an injury? Could he have been bitten by something?You said he hissed when you picked him up - was he in pain? If so feel around and try and determine where he is painful.

        Have you added or taken away anything from his usual diet, medicines, supplements etc? I wonder if he could be constipated or blocked - is he using the litter box ok? Since you have two kitties maybe for at least today, separate them and watch him, make sure there is no straining and keep an eye on his breathing, eating and general behavior.

        Lip licking is generally a sign of belly upset but could be tooth or gum related so take a look see in his mouth. If he's not eating well b/c he is nauseous, perhaps you can offer him several small meals.

        Sharon


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jonathan Rosenberg
        I m sorry to hear about Harry s heart condition. I m not a vet & I hesitate to disagree with one (especially a cardiologist), but the statement that ... we
        Message 3 of 17 , May 6, 2001
          I'm sorry to hear about Harry's heart condition.

          I'm not a vet & I hesitate to disagree with one (especially a cardiologist),
          but the statement that

          ... we would most likely notice a downturn when his
          hindlegs were paralyzed from a clot ...

          is quite strange to me. I had a cat that had severe heart disease & threw
          several clots & I did a lot of research when he threw his first clot. First
          of all, the vast majority of cats with heart problems (even with severe
          conditions) never throw a clot. In addition, no one knows how to tell which
          cats with heart problems are more likely to throw clots. Lastly, if your
          cat does throw a clot, it can lodge in one of many places, only one of which
          causes hindleg paralysis.

          The symptoms you describe could be many things, but given his good checkup
          this past week, I would suspect something non-heart related. I would get
          him to the vet 1st thing tomorrow morning.

          Please let us know what you find out.

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Begete@... [mailto:Begete@...]
          > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 9:51 AM
          > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn
          >
          >
          > Harry (HCM) who was given 6 months at best last Decemeber had been doing
          > really well until yesterday. The visiting vet, who monitors his lungs and
          > weight and confers with the cardiologist could not even hear the
          > murmur when
          > he was here Wednesday.
          > And Harry continued to be as active and playful as a kitten with
          > no signs at
          > all of any illness.
          >
          > Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and
          > playing. I found
          > some liquidy vomit on the floor (but we have two cats so am not
          > absolutely
          > sure it was Harry's - no hairball). He actually hissed at me when
          > I tried to
          > pick him up, and seemed not to be able to walk more than a few
          > feet before
          > lying down. When he does walk, he is not limping. He also seems
          > quite a bit
          > lighter. and he seems to be licking his lips a lot - as if he was thristy.
          >
          > Last night we had roast chicken for dinner which Harry loves, and he ate
          > quite a lot of it. he seems a little better this morning, and did eat
          > breakfast, though I had to lift him to the counter where he usually eats.
          >
          > Our cardiologist said that we would most likely notice a downturn
          > when his
          > hindlegs were paralyzed from a clot, but that is not what is going on. Is
          > what I am describing also identifyable as the "end" for a HCM
          > cat? or does
          > this sound more like he ate a bug and it upset his tummy?
          >
          > I would call the vet but no one is there on Sundays, and a trip to the ER
          > would stress him a lot.
          >
          > Thanx for any ideas, opinions.
          > b
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Begete@aol.com
          First - I thank you all for the replies. Harry seems a little better today; not back to normal but he is eating a little more and isn t quite as off . I
          Message 4 of 17 , May 6, 2001
            First - I thank you all for the replies.

            Harry seems a little better today; not back to "normal" but he is eating a
            little more and isn't quite as "off".

            I also tend to think it not not related to the HCM, but perhaps he ate a bug
            or chewed a plant and that disagreed with him.

            I also thought of constipation, and since he will not take the meds for that,
            I gave him some butter.

            The vet looked carefully at his teeth on Wednesday as he seems to be
            "teething" even though a 3 year old cat already has all his teeth as he has
            been chewing on anything rubbery he can find. The vet said his teeth and gums
            looked fine, but maybe he chewed on something that made him ill. Our cats are
            indoor cats, but do have the run of the house.

            Hopefully he will continue to improve. he has his 6 month recheck with the
            cardiologist in June, but our vet confers with her anytime we are concerned.

            Again, thanx for the kind thoughts and support.

            Babette


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Begete@aol.com
            Forgot to mention: when my husband took the leftover chicken out of the fridge, Harry leaped up onto the counter in anticipation - so he can leap when he
            Message 5 of 17 , May 6, 2001
              Forgot to mention: when my husband took the leftover chicken out of the
              fridge, Harry leaped up onto the counter in anticipation - so he can leap
              when he really wants to - and given that he is a clever little guy (Harry,
              not the husband) - maybe he just got tired of cat food and is playing sick
              knowing that we always coddle him and give him home made people food when he
              isn't well :-)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • the chunns
              Glad to hear Harry is improving - seems like we are always living on the edge with these little heart patients! Pat ... From: To:
              Message 6 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                Glad to hear Harry is improving - seems like we are always
                living on the edge with these little heart patients!

                Pat
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <Begete@...>
                To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 1:44 PM
                Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn


                > First - I thank you all for the replies.
                >
                > Harry seems a little better today; not back to "normal" but he is eating a
                > little more and isn't quite as "off".
                >
                > I also tend to think it not not related to the HCM, but perhaps he ate a
                bug
                > or chewed a plant and that disagreed with him.
                >
                > I also thought of constipation, and since he will not take the meds for
                that,
                > I gave him some butter.
                >
                > The vet looked carefully at his teeth on Wednesday as he seems to be
                > "teething" even though a 3 year old cat already has all his teeth as he
                has
                > been chewing on anything rubbery he can find. The vet said his teeth and
                gums
                > looked fine, but maybe he chewed on something that made him ill. Our cats
                are
                > indoor cats, but do have the run of the house.
                >
                > Hopefully he will continue to improve. he has his 6 month recheck with the
                > cardiologist in June, but our vet confers with her anytime we are
                concerned.
                >
                > Again, thanx for the kind thoughts and support.
                >
                > Babette
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • Anyes Moscrip
                ... It sounds like possible fluid build up in the lungs, or chest cavity if the breathing is normal. That would hide the murmur temporarily and it would cause
                Message 7 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                  Begete@... wrote:

                  > Harry (HCM) who was given 6 months at best last Decemeber had been doing
                  > really well until yesterday. The visiting vet, who monitors his lungs and
                  > weight and confers with the cardiologist could not even hear the murmur when
                  > he was here Wednesday.
                  >
                  > Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and playing. I found
                  > some liquidy vomit on the floor (but we have two cats so am not absolutely
                  > sure it was Harry's - no hairball). He actually hissed at me when I tried to
                  > pick him up, and seemed not to be able to walk more than a few feet before
                  > lying down. When he does walk, he is not limping. He also seems quite a bit
                  > lighter. and he seems to be licking his lips a lot - as if he was thristy.

                  It sounds like possible fluid build up in the lungs, or chest cavity if the
                  breathing is normal. That would hide the murmur temporarily and it would cause
                  an angry reaction when picked up. The fluids put pressure on the heart and
                  lungs when you put your hand against your kitty's chest. If he squeaks,
                  protests in any way, I think he has fluids in the chest cavity. If the
                  breathing is normal, his lungs may not be affected yet. Is Harry using his
                  lower flanks as 'bellows' with a more deliberate, slow breath? Have it checked
                  out tomorrow for sure.
                  Stopping eating and throwing up fluid are also signs, as is the lack of energy
                  and tiredness...

                  Is Harry on heart medications? and has his bp been checked lately?
                  It sounds like it's time for an adjustment in his meds....

                  As to the clot, what you are describing does not sound like that, and most heart
                  kitties never get clots anyway...

                  I hope that helps,
                  Anyes, Angelica and angels Lucie and Georgina
                • Anyes Moscrip
                  ... I forgot to clarify that with fluids in the chest cavity, there is pressure on the stomach and appetite disappears as the tummy feels full. With fluids
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                    >
                    > Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and playing.

                    I forgot to clarify that with fluids in the chest cavity, there is pressure on
                    the stomach and appetite disappears as the tummy feels full. With fluids in the
                    lungs, the breath becomes more slow and deliberate and a kitty with fluids in
                    the lungs will not lay down on its side or head upside down. With either,
                    there is squeaking or protesting of some sort as the pressure is uncomfortable
                    when being picked up.

                    I hope that helps,
                    Anyes
                  • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                    as i understand it, hind leg paresis is due to/most often associated iwth left atrial impairment..so does harry have that ....it wounds to me like a tummy
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                      as i understand it, hind leg paresis is due to/most often associated iwth
                      left atrial impairment..so does harry have that ....it wounds to me like a
                      tummy problem....give him some time to recuperate and assume that it is a
                      atummy problem and hope for the best....can you give him some pepcid???

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Begete@... [mailto:Begete@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 8:51 AM
                      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn


                      Harry (HCM) who was given 6 months at best last Decemeber had been doing
                      really well until yesterday. The visiting vet, who monitors his lungs and
                      weight and confers with the cardiologist could not even hear the murmur when
                      he was here Wednesday.
                      And Harry continued to be as active and playful as a kitten with no signs at
                      all of any illness.

                      Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and playing. I found
                      some liquidy vomit on the floor (but we have two cats so am not absolutely
                      sure it was Harry's - no hairball). He actually hissed at me when I tried to
                      pick him up, and seemed not to be able to walk more than a few feet before
                      lying down. When he does walk, he is not limping. He also seems quite a bit
                      lighter. and he seems to be licking his lips a lot - as if he was thristy.

                      Last night we had roast chicken for dinner which Harry loves, and he ate
                      quite a lot of it. he seems a little better this morning, and did eat
                      breakfast, though I had to lift him to the counter where he usually eats.

                      Our cardiologist said that we would most likely notice a downturn when his
                      hindlegs were paralyzed from a clot, but that is not what is going on. Is
                      what I am describing also identifyable as the "end" for a HCM cat? or does
                      this sound more like he ate a bug and it upset his tummy?

                      I would call the vet but no one is there on Sundays, and a trip to the ER
                      would stress him a lot.

                      Thanx for any ideas, opinions.
                      b


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                    • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                      is he dehydrated??? ... From: Voula Augerinos [mailto:catwoman1@iprimus.com.au] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 8:57 AM To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com Subject:
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                        is he dehydrated???

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Voula Augerinos [mailto:catwoman1@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 8:57 AM
                        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn


                        Hi again,
                        I forgot to tell you that licking lips is often a sign of nausea.
                        Love, Voula.

                        ----------
                        > From: Voula Augerinos <catwoman1@...>
                        > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn
                        > Date: Sunday, 06 May , 2001 23:53
                        >
                        > Hi,
                        > I wish I had some advice that would be of help. I just wanted to
                        write
                        > to say I know how scared you must be and that I am thinking of you and
                        > Harry, and praying that this is something minor, and that Harry will be
                        > back to fine form very soon.
                        > I am sure that others more knowledgable will soon reply. Please keep
                        > us posted. Could you call the ER and ask their advice?
                        > Love, Voula.
                        >
                        > ----------
                        > > From: Begete@...
                        > > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn
                        > > Date: Sunday, 06 May , 2001 23:50
                        > >
                        > > Harry (HCM) who was given 6 months at best last Decemeber had been
                        doing
                        > > really well until yesterday. The visiting vet, who monitors his lungs
                        and
                        >
                        > > weight and confers with the cardiologist could not even hear the murmur
                        > when
                        > > he was here Wednesday.
                        > > And Harry continued to be as active and playful as a kitten with no
                        signs
                        > at
                        > > all of any illness.
                        > >
                        > > Then all of a sudden, yesterday, he just stopped eating and playing. I
                        > found
                        > > some liquidy vomit on the floor (but we have two cats so am not
                        > absolutely
                        > > sure it was Harry's - no hairball). He actually hissed at me when I
                        tried
                        > to
                        > > pick him up, and seemed not to be able to walk more than a few feet
                        > before
                        > > lying down. When he does walk, he is not limping. He also seems quite a
                        > bit
                        > > lighter. and he seems to be licking his lips a lot - as if he was
                        > thristy.
                        > >
                        > > Last night we had roast chicken for dinner which Harry loves, and he
                        ate
                        > > quite a lot of it. he seems a little better this morning, and did eat
                        > > breakfast, though I had to lift him to the counter where he usually
                        eats.
                        > >
                        > > Our cardiologist said that we would most likely notice a downturn when
                        > his
                        > > hindlegs were paralyzed from a clot, but that is not what is going on.
                        Is
                        >
                        > > what I am describing also identifyable as the "end" for a HCM cat? or
                        > does
                        > > this sound more like he ate a bug and it upset his tummy?
                        > >
                        > > I would call the vet but no one is there on Sundays, and a trip to the
                        ER
                        >
                        > > would stress him a lot.
                        > >
                        > > Thanx for any ideas, opinions.
                        > > b
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                        >

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                      • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                        do you have any plants in the house////something he could have chewed/eaten, etcx...????what kind of houseplants do you have??? ... From: Begete@aol.com
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                          do you have any plants in the house////something he could have chewed/eaten,
                          etcx...????what kind of houseplants do you have???



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Begete@... [mailto:Begete@...]
                          Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:45 PM
                          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn


                          First - I thank you all for the replies.

                          Harry seems a little better today; not back to "normal" but he is eating a
                          little more and isn't quite as "off".

                          I also tend to think it not not related to the HCM, but perhaps he ate a bug
                          or chewed a plant and that disagreed with him.

                          I also thought of constipation, and since he will not take the meds for
                          that,
                          I gave him some butter.

                          The vet looked carefully at his teeth on Wednesday as he seems to be
                          "teething" even though a 3 year old cat already has all his teeth as he has
                          been chewing on anything rubbery he can find. The vet said his teeth and
                          gums
                          looked fine, but maybe he chewed on something that made him ill. Our cats
                          are
                          indoor cats, but do have the run of the house.

                          Hopefully he will continue to improve. he has his 6 month recheck with the
                          cardiologist in June, but our vet confers with her anytime we are concerned.

                          Again, thanx for the kind thoughts and support.

                          Babette


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com



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                        • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                          sounds like my husbnad...even if he doesn t leap onto counters... ... From: Begete@aol.com [mailto:Begete@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:47 PM To:
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 6, 2001
                            sounds like my husbnad...even if he doesn't leap onto counters...

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Begete@... [mailto:Begete@...]
                            Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:47 PM
                            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn


                            Forgot to mention: when my husband took the leftover chicken out of the
                            fridge, Harry leaped up onto the counter in anticipation - so he can leap
                            when he really wants to - and given that he is a clever little guy (Harry,
                            not the husband) - maybe he just got tired of cat food and is playing sick
                            knowing that we always coddle him and give him home made people food when he
                            isn't well :-)


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                          • Begete@aol.com
                            In a message dated 5/6/01 8:34:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... But the symptoms occurred Saturday and he was fine on Wednesday when he had a complete checkup
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 7, 2001
                              In a message dated 5/6/01 8:34:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                              anyes@... writes:


                              > The fluids put pressure on the heart and
                              > lungs when you put your hand against your kitty's chest. If he squeaks,
                              > protests in any way, I think he has fluids in the chest cavity

                              But the symptoms occurred Saturday and he was fine on Wednesday when he had a
                              complete checkup with the vet. Can it happen that fast (the fluid buildup?).
                              I thought it was more gradual. He is fina again today. Do the fluids reduce
                              themselves?


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Anyes Moscrip
                              ... Fluids can build up in a matter of hours. Certainly from Wednesday to Saturday is more than long enough to happen. Fluids will also get reabsorbed
                              Message 14 of 17 , May 7, 2001
                                Begete@... wrote:

                                > But the symptoms occurred Saturday and he was fine on Wednesday when he had a
                                > complete checkup with the vet. Can it happen that fast (the fluid buildup?).
                                > I thought it was more gradual. He is fina again today. Do the fluids reduce
                                > themselves?
                                >

                                Fluids can build up in a matter of hours. Certainly from Wednesday to Saturday
                                is more than long enough to happen. Fluids will also get reabsorbed provided
                                that whatever caused the problem, such as giving fluids for example or stress, is
                                stopped.

                                I hope that helps,
                                Anyes, Angelica, angels Lucie and Georgina
                              • Mike & Linda Irrgang
                                i am sorry to hear about harry....i hope that all will be better soon...we will keep you and harry in our thoughts and prayers... white lites, linda and the
                                Message 15 of 17 , May 12, 2001
                                  i am sorry to hear about harry....i hope that all will be better soon...we
                                  will keep you and harry in our thoughts and prayers...

                                  white lites,
                                  linda and the boys

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Anyes Moscrip [mailto:anyes@...]
                                  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:01 PM
                                  To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Harry took a bad turn




                                  Begete@... wrote:

                                  > But the symptoms occurred Saturday and he was fine on Wednesday when he
                                  had a
                                  > complete checkup with the vet. Can it happen that fast (the fluid
                                  buildup?).
                                  > I thought it was more gradual. He is fina again today. Do the fluids
                                  reduce
                                  > themselves?
                                  >

                                  Fluids can build up in a matter of hours. Certainly from Wednesday to
                                  Saturday
                                  is more than long enough to happen. Fluids will also get reabsorbed
                                  provided
                                  that whatever caused the problem, such as giving fluids for example or
                                  stress, is
                                  stopped.

                                  I hope that helps,
                                  Anyes, Angelica, angels Lucie and Georgina



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