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Re: [FH] Hobo update

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  • savionna@aol.com
    Hi Lisa, In a message dated 5/2/06 9:56:09 AM, lisamarialocke@yahoo.com writes: Hooray!! If
    Message 1 of 9 , May 2, 2006
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      Hi Lisa,

      In a message dated 5/2/06 9:56:09 AM, lisamarialocke@... writes:

      << Hobo is gradually doing better >>

      Hooray!!

      << continued loose

      stools. >>

      If you've ruled out pathogens and parasites (and other things), then it may
      just take a while for the water balance to return to the gut (to the extent
      possible for Hobo).

      << But both he and Mojo love their food

      with it mixed in >>

      Good!!

      << am giving 1/4-1/2 teaspoon per day

      now. >>

      Fine.

      << I have to admit I'm not comfortable

      with the raw food idea. >>

      No problem. Was just a suggestion. If you ever want (need) to give plain
      muscle meat in the future, you can boil it lightly.

      << I got kind

      of overwhelmed in the natural foods store. I will go

      back through Rosemary's emails to remind myself what

      kind of probiotics to look for and how much to give. >>

      I know. There's lots of stuff. But you can make it easy on yourself if you
      just need probiotics to head right for the refrigerator. And pick any reputable
      brand (eg Jarrow, UAS Labs) of nondairy probiotics with the least amt of other
      ingredients besides bacteria. You can get plain Lactobacillus acidophilus if
      you like...or a mix with L. acidophilus and Bifido, along with FOS
      (fructo-oligosaccharides). We don't really know which bacteria are in the cat's gut or
      how many. So I use the Jarrow guideline for animals (and who knows how they
      determined it) of somewhere around 2 billion organisms. So if you get a product
      with 5 billion, then you usually end up using a little dot's worth. There's no
      known downside...and cat's generally like the taste. And it really can help
      with diarrhea by rebalancing the bacteria population in the gut.

      << Just a small change

      in positioning seems to make it a whole lot easier. He

      was purring and happy again this morning while I

      pilled him. >>

      Good job. // Rosemary
    • fancidots
      I m so happy to read that HOBO is better !!! Just a few comments from a lurker who is now living with her second HCM rescue kitty. When the meds or
      Message 2 of 9 , May 2, 2006
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        I'm so happy to read that HOBO is better !!!

        Just a few comments from a "lurker" who is now living with
        her "second" HCM rescue kitty.

        When the meds or "stress" bring about loose stools, you can also
        give them canned pumpkin (the kind you would make pie with).
        Something about the fiber seems to balance their bowels, too.


        At first they look at you a little weird, but both of my kitties who
        had to take meds on a regular basis, LOVED "sweet" even though
        everyone keeps telling me that cat's can't taste sweet. And they
        would eat it right out of a teaspoon. (as long as it wasn't too
        cold.)

        I have 9 cats, and 3 of them who live in my house, right now, will
        argue the idea about cats not liking sweets. I have to practically
        lock myself in a room, to eat pudding or pie, or even those little
        sugar coated donuts! and FORGET eating ice cream, or CAKE with
        frosting -- without having to move a cat head, after every spoon-
        full for the next.)

        Fortunately for me, my Casper will come lay in my lap, and ALLOW me
        to pill him, every night. I usually give him one teaspoon of vanilla
        ice cream in a small dessert dish OR one teaspoon of chicken baby
        food, AFTER the pill, so when he sees me bring the "dish" or "jar"
        into the living room, he comes running!

        My vet suggested it, when he was first diagnosed. To find something
        your cat simply can NOT resist -- and give them a small "portion" of
        it AFTER their pill -- EVERY TIME. I didn't DREAM it would work so
        well! But I don't even have to hunt for Casper. He hears me get
        the ice cream out of the freezer, or the baby food jar out of the
        pantry, and he's trotting alongside me.

        It DOES help, if you know the correct way to "pill" your cat, so
        that it isn't a daily "wrestling" match. I tilt Casper's head way
        back, (like you do, when you're scratching their chin and neck) then
        just have the pill in my hand while I use the other hand, to pop his
        little mouth open, and push the little capsule as far back as
        possible, then shut his mouth, quickly, and rub his throat again.

        Prayers for all your kitties, here ---

        Lavon
        and the
        Fancidots Felines
        http://fancidots.blogspot.com/





        >
        > Hi Lisa,
        >
        > In a message dated 5/2/06 9:56:09 AM, lisamarialocke@... writes:
        >
        > << Hobo is gradually doing better >>
        >
        > Hooray!!
        >
        > << continued loose stools. >>
        >

        << Just a small change in positioning seems to make it a whole lot
        easier. He was purring and happy again this morning while I pilled
        him. >>
        >
        > Good job. // Rosemary
        >
      • protectanimals
        Hi Lisa, I know this is late, and maybe Hobo s problem of loose stools is resolved, but I just wanted to let you know that Monkey recently had a bout of loose
        Message 3 of 9 , May 6, 2006
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          Hi Lisa,

          I know this is late, and maybe Hobo's problem of loose stools is
          resolved, but I just wanted to let you know that Monkey recently had a
          bout of loose stools (the whole thing lasted around 6-8 weeks, other
          than the several times she took Flagyl, but upon coming off the Flagyl
          each time, it would start again). I talked with Rosemary about it on
          WholeCatHealth, and she advised the probiotics, among other things. I
          am like you, I don't like to add a lot of changes at once, so we didn't
          do the Slippery Elm (yet), but we did do the probiotics, and that
          really did the trick. What a relief! Thanks again, Rosemary! We used
          the Country Life brand mixed into Monkey's food, and it didn't seem to
          turn her off her food at all.

          Good Luck with Hobo!

          Meredith with Monkey

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Locke-Downer
          <lisamarialocke@...> wrote:
          >
          > I
          > haven't gotten probiotics yet. Didn't want to
          > introduce too many new things at once, and I got kind
          > of overwhelmed in the natural foods store. I will go
          > back through Rosemary's emails to remind myself what
          > kind of probiotics to look for and how much to give. .
        • savionna@aol.com
          Hi Lisa, ... Ok, this is good. I just want to throw out a teeny reminder that not all infection shows up all the time...and it s possible to have a low-grade
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 29, 2007
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            Hi Lisa,

            In a message dated 1/28/07 9:04:32 PM, lisamarialocke@... writes:

            > --no sign of bacterial infection in urine (they did a culture)
            >
            Ok, this is good. I just want to throw out a teeny reminder that not all
            infection shows up all the time...and it's possible to have a low-grade smoldering
            infection that's not detected. I'm not saying Hobo has one. Only that it's
            possible.

            > --urine did have increased number of red cells
            >
            How about blood? It's possible to have blood/RBC in urine from some type of
            inflammation...without bacteria. And if Hobo does have sterile
            inflammation/hematuria, there are some gentle remedies that can help.

            > --specific gravity is a little low, microalbumin (?) is very high
            > (19.7), urea = 45, creatinine (?) is 2.7, amylase is high.
            >
            I'm assuming they did a special test for the microalbumin (as opposed to the
            dipstick for protein)?? Are they also going to check blood pressure? The test
            for microalbumin detects 1-30 mg/dL. The usual ref. range for BUN is 14-36
            mg/dL and creatinine 0.6-2.4 mg/dL (altho some labs consider the upper range
            1.8).

            It would be helpful to get results also for phosphorus, potassium, sodium,
            hematocrit/PCV, and urine specific gravity.

            > --thyroid ok, glucose ok, liver ok, red and white cells in blood ok,
            > no fluid in lungs (per xray), something funny looking on kidney in
            > xray
            >
            All this sounds good except the funny-looking thing.

            > But he's wondering about switching to a low
            > protein diet (???)
            >
            No, this really isn't a good idea. This is outmoded thinking...that should
            never have been applied to cats to start with. Without going into a long
            explanation, the goal is to keep an eye on the amt of phosphorus, while providing the
            highest amt of high-quality protein possible.

            > --current food is California Natural (made by the same folks who make
            > INNOVA) Venison & Brown Rice canned, which he loves.
            >
            This phosphorus content on this is about 1.18% (dry matter). I think 1% is a
            reasonable amt...and this isn't too far from it.

            > However, I first
            > noticed the urinary sxs a few months after starting him on Natural
            > Balance Venison & Green pea canned. Don't know if this is a random
            > coincidence, or if something in this food could affect kidney
            > functioning.
            >
            I don't know either. I think it's unlikely...but I certainly couldn't swear
            to that.
            >
            > So...what questions should I be asking the specialist on Monday?
            >
            I'd want to know the blood/urine results mentioned above. And also ask if he
            thinks a blood pressure check is needed.

            > I really don't want to switch foods again if I don't have to,
            > and to me low protein doesn't sound like a good idea b/c his muscles
            > need the protein (right?).
            >
            Yes, Lisa!! Bingo. Actually, his whole body needs the protein, b/c Hobo's
            whole body evolved to get energy and nutrients from animal protein.

            Here are some articles on this subject (some of this is about dogs...but the
            same principles apply to cats):

            1. "Nutritional Management of Dogs and Cats with Chronic Renal Failure" by
            Kalkstein, DVM, DACVIM at www.southpaws.com/news/99-2-nutrition-CF.htm

            2. "Kidney Disease in Older Cats" by Hofve, DVM at
            http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=003

            3. "Mythology of Protein Restriction for Dogs with Reduced Renal Function,"
            by Kenneth Bovee, DVM, MMedSc (UPenn) at
            http://www.geocities.com/jjfleisher/bovee_protein_RD.pdf

            4. "Effects of Dietary Protein Intake on Renal Functions," by Delmar Finco,
            DVM, PhD (Univ of Ga) at
            http://www.geocities.com/jjfleisher/finco.pdf

            5. "Dietary Protein and the Kidney" by Patricia Schenck, DVM, PhD (Michigan
            State Univ) at
            http://web.archive.org/web/20040205075757/http://www.cm-d.com/buckeye/tech_manual/8_28.html

            6. www.dogaware.com/kidney.html

            > I'd also like to avoid subQ fluids for as
            > long as possible.
            >
            I hear you about this...it isn't the most fun way to spend 4 min with your
            cat. But it's not dreadful, either, and hydration is so important for overall
            comfort and health. And Hobo may not need fluids right now. You can also keep
            him hydrated by adding some extra water to the food or encouraging him to drink
            (eg if he likes a fountain)...and some caregivers also give water by oral
            syringe instead of subQ. When the time comes, you can get help with the fluids,
            too (if you need it). // Rosemary


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • savionna@aol.com
            Hi Lisa, I sent this yesterday, but I guess Yahoo ate it. Apologies if it appears twice. ... Ok, this is good. I just want to throw out a teeny reminder that
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 30, 2007
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              Hi Lisa,

              I sent this yesterday, but I guess Yahoo ate it. Apologies if it appears
              twice.

              In a message dated 1/28/07 9:04:32 PM, lisamarialocke@... writes:

              > --no sign of bacterial infection in urine (they did a culture)
              >
              Ok, this is good. I just want to throw out a teeny reminder that not all
              infection shows up all the time...and it's possible to have a low-grade smoldering
              infection that's not detected. I'm not saying Hobo has one. Only that it's
              possible.

              > --urine did have increased number of red cells
              >
              How about blood? It's possible to have blood/RBC in urine from some type of
              inflammation...without bacteria. And if Hobo does have sterile
              inflammation/hematuria, there are some gentle remedies that can help.

              > --specific gravity is a little low, microalbumin (?) is very high
              > (19.7), urea = 45, creatinine (?) is 2.7, amylase is high.
              >
              I'm assuming they did a special test for the microalbumin (as opposed to the
              dipstick for protein)?? Are they also going to check blood pressure? The test
              for microalbumin detects 1-30 mg/dL. The usual ref. range for BUN is 14-36
              mg/dL and creatinine 0.6-2.4 mg/dL (altho some labs consider the upper range
              1.8).

              It would be helpful to get results also for phosphorus, potassium, sodium,
              hematocrit/PCV, and urine specific gravity.

              > --thyroid ok, glucose ok, liver ok, red and white cells in blood ok,
              > no fluid in lungs (per xray), something funny looking on kidney in
              > xray
              >
              All this sounds good except the funny-looking thing.

              > But he's wondering about switching to a low
              > protein diet (???)
              >
              No, this really isn't a good idea. This is outmoded thinking...that should
              never have been applied to cats to start with. Without going into a long
              explanation, the goal is to keep an eye on the amt of phosphorus, while providing the
              highest amt of high-quality protein possible.

              > --current food is California Natural (made by the same folks who make
              > INNOVA) Venison & Brown Rice canned, which he loves.
              >
              This phosphorus content on this is about 1.18% (dry matter). I think 1% is a
              reasonable amt...and this isn't too far from it.

              > However, I first
              > noticed the urinary sxs a few months after starting him on Natural
              > Balance Venison & Green pea canned. Don't know if this is a random
              > coincidence, or if something in this food could affect kidney
              > functioning.
              >
              I don't know either. I think it's unlikely...but I certainly couldn't swear
              to that.

              > So...what questions should I be asking the specialist on Monday?
              >
              I'd want to know the blood/urine results mentioned above. And also ask if he
              thinks a blood pressure check is needed.

              > I really don't want to switch foods again if I don't have to,
              > and to me low protein doesn't sound like a good idea b/c his muscles
              > need the protein (right?).
              >
              >
              Yes, Lisa!! Bingo. Actually, his whole body needs the protein, b/c Hobo's
              whole body evolved to get energy and nutrients from animal protein.

              Here are some articles on this subject (some of this is about dogs...but the
              same principles apply to cats):

              1. "Nutritional Management of Dogs and Cats with Chronic Renal Failure" by
              Kalkstein, DVM, DACVIM at www.southpaws.com/news/99-2-nutrition-CF.htm

              2. "Kidney Disease in Older Cats" by Hofve, DVM at
              http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=003

              3. "Mythology of Protein Restriction for Dogs with Reduced Renal Function,"
              by Kenneth Bovee, DVM, MMedSc (UPenn) at
              http://www.geocities.com/jjfleisher/bovee_protein_RD.pdf

              4. "Effects of Dietary Protein Intake on Renal Functions," by Delmar Finco,
              DVM, PhD (Univ of Ga) at
              http://www.geocities.com/jjfleisher/finco.pdf

              5. "Dietary Protein and the Kidney" by Patricia Schenck, DVM, PhD (Michigan
              State Univ) at
              http://web.archive.org/web/20040205075757/http://www.cm-d.com/buckeye/tech_manual/8_28.html

              6. www.dogaware.com/kidney.html

              > I'd also like to avoid subQ fluids for as
              > long as possible.
              >
              I hear you about this...it isn't the most fun way to spend 4 min with your
              cat. But it's not dreadful, either, and hydration is so important for overall
              comfort and health. And Hobo may not need fluids right now. You can also keep
              him hydrated by adding some extra water to the food or encouraging him to drink
              (eg if he likes a fountain)...and some caregivers also give water by oral
              syringe instead of subQ. When the time comes, you can get help with the fluids,
              too (if you need it). // Rosemary


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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