Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

food dilemma

Expand Messages
  • Ruthie
    Once my husband starts work in February, we are planning to feed a high quality canned food. However, I have a dilemma. Currently I have been feeding Purina
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 30, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Once my husband starts work in February, we are planning to feed a high quality canned food. However, I have a dilemma. Currently I have been feeding Purina cat chow...Yeah, I know. Anyhow, we pay about $10 for an 18 lb bag that lasts about 4 weeks. In order to get 4 weeks fo food with say, Nature's Variety on Petfood direct, we would be paying about $150 for the same 4 weeks of food.

      First of all, is this right? I had looked at the info for wellness and how much to feed, which said about 6 oz. per day for an 8-10 lb cat. we have 2 in the 8-10 range, one about 12-13, and one a little over 4 lbs. Assuming the wellness recommendation, we would need to feed approx 4 of their 5.5 oz cans.

      Now I know they do tend to eat less bulk of the canned food to their dry food, not sure why this is, but...well, here's why I say that. When I feed 100% dry, they eat about 2.5-3 cups per day between the 4 of them. When I feed then one 5.5 oz can of Purina Friskies per day along with their dry food, they only eat about a cup and a half per day.

      Anyway, I'm wondering if my reckonings are correct or if I'm doing something wrong here.

      It's going to be a big adjustment for us paying 10x more for food than we are now, even though we are very concerned about the health of our cats, who we think of as our children.

      Any input you guys can give, especially Rosemary <smile> is greatly appreciated.

      You guys have all been such a help to me in these last few months and believe me, it is greatly appreciated.

      Thanks.


      Ruthie and the crew.

      Warning: Dates in Calendar are closer than they appear.

      Visit www.ruthieville.com today for your daily dose of me.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • turkishangoraathumanesociety
      Hi Ruthie...I think Nutro is a great brand (and Authority right under that) that you can get both at PetSmart (Nutro at a number of stores). Even better,
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 31, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Ruthie...I think Nutro is a great brand (and Authority right under
        that) that you can get both at PetSmart (Nutro at a number of stores).
        Even better, though, I think, (and more expensive)is Innova and
        California Natural...a bit harder to find, but they have a store
        locator on their site. Smaller stores carry them, independant pet
        stores and health food stores for people. The store locator can be
        found at www.naturapet.com
      • Linda Cuéllar Irrgang
        What would you say is the best food for my Pumpkin who is starting to have higher creatinine values? He needs a specialty food that is tailored to the needs
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 2, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          What would you say is the best food for my Pumpkin who is starting to have
          higher creatinine values? He needs a specialty food that is tailored to the
          needs of an HCM kitty and also best for his kidneys. I have read a lot
          about a lot of foods but wondered what everyone here might have
          experienced…..



          Thx for the help.



          Linda and Pumpkin



          -----Original Message-----
          From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of turkishangoraathumanesociety
          Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:46 PM
          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [FH] Re: food dilemma



          Hi Ruthie...I think Nutro is a great brand (and Authority right under
          that) that you can get both at PetSmart (Nutro at a number of stores).
          Even better, though, I think, (and more expensive)is Innova and
          California Natural...a bit harder to find, but they have a store
          locator on their site. Smaller stores carry them, independant pet
          stores and health food stores for people. The store locator can be
          found at www.naturapet.com






          Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
          will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
          feline-heart@yahoogroups.com




          _____

          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



          * Visit your group "feline-heart
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart> " on the web.


          * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


          * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



          _____



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Linda Fischbach
          Linda, I would try to feed a low phosphorus food. Linda ... From: Linda Cuéllar Irrgang To: turkishangoraathumanesociety
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 2, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Linda, I would try to feed a low phosphorus food.

            Linda

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Linda Cuéllar Irrgang" <irrgang@...>
            To: "'turkishangoraathumanesociety'"
            <turkishangoraathumanesociety@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:12 PM
            Subject: RE: [FH] Re: food dilemma


            What would you say is the best food for my Pumpkin who is starting to have
            higher creatinine values? He needs a specialty food that is tailored to the
            needs of an HCM kitty and also best for his kidneys. I have read a lot
            about a lot of foods but wondered what everyone here might have
            experienced...



            Thx for the help.



            Linda and Pumpkin



            -----Original Message-----
            From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of turkishangoraathumanesociety
            Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:46 PM
            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [FH] Re: food dilemma



            Hi Ruthie...I think Nutro is a great brand (and Authority right under
            that) that you can get both at PetSmart (Nutro at a number of stores).
            Even better, though, I think, (and more expensive)is Innova and
            California Natural...a bit harder to find, but they have a store
            locator on their site. Smaller stores carry them, independant pet
            stores and health food stores for people. The store locator can be
            found at www.naturapet.com






            Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
            will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
            feline-heart@yahoogroups.com




            _____

            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



            * Visit your group "feline-heart
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart> " on the web.


            * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


            * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



            _____



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
            will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
            feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Linda Cuéllar Irrgang
            But what brand is best….in wet vs. dry? ... From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Fischbach Sent:
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 2, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              But what brand is best….in wet vs. dry?



              -----Original Message-----
              From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Linda Fischbach
              Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:17 PM
              To: 'turkishangoraathumanesociety'; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Linda
              Cuéllar Irrgang
              Subject: Re: [FH] Re: food dilemma



              Linda, I would try to feed a low phosphorus food.

              Linda

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Linda Cuéllar Irrgang" <irrgang@...>
              To: "'turkishangoraathumanesociety'"
              <turkishangoraathumanesociety@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:12 PM
              Subject: RE: [FH] Re: food dilemma


              What would you say is the best food for my Pumpkin who is starting to have
              higher creatinine values? He needs a specialty food that is tailored to the
              needs of an HCM kitty and also best for his kidneys. I have read a lot
              about a lot of foods but wondered what everyone here might have
              experienced...



              Thx for the help.



              Linda and Pumpkin



              -----Original Message-----
              From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of turkishangoraathumanesociety
              Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:46 PM
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [FH] Re: food dilemma



              Hi Ruthie...I think Nutro is a great brand (and Authority right under
              that) that you can get both at PetSmart (Nutro at a number of stores).
              Even better, though, I think, (and more expensive)is Innova and
              California Natural...a bit harder to find, but they have a store
              locator on their site. Smaller stores carry them, independant pet
              stores and health food stores for people. The store locator can be
              found at www.naturapet.com






              Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
              will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
              feline-heart@yahoogroups.com




              _____

              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



              * Visit your group "feline-heart
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart> " on the web.


              * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


              * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



              _____



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
              will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
              feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links










              Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
              will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
              feline-heart@yahoogroups.com




              SPONSORED LINKS


              Cat
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Cat+health+insurance&w1=Cat+health+insu
              rance&w2=Cat+health+care&w3=Pet+health+cat&w4=Cat+health&w5=Heart+conditions
              &w6=Health+problem+in+cat&c=6&s=132&.sig=jCcdGI6DrfclZUZfEbhKjQ> health
              insurance

              Cat
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Cat+health+care&w1=Cat+health+insurance
              &w2=Cat+health+care&w3=Pet+health+cat&w4=Cat+health&w5=Heart+conditions&w6=H
              ealth+problem+in+cat&c=6&s=132&.sig=sHAUYnOXqX421iiMASQuIw> health care

              Pet
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pet+health+cat&w1=Cat+health+insurance&
              w2=Cat+health+care&w3=Pet+health+cat&w4=Cat+health&w5=Heart+conditions&w6=He
              alth+problem+in+cat&c=6&s=132&.sig=Lcs7tukQKLtd6OGdgxZoJw> health cat


              Cat
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Cat+health&w1=Cat+health+insurance&w2=C
              at+health+care&w3=Pet+health+cat&w4=Cat+health&w5=Heart+conditions&w6=Health
              +problem+in+cat&c=6&s=132&.sig=frCXB-F06hVpm6m8Rmdyvw> health

              Heart
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Heart+conditions&w1=Cat+health+insuranc
              e&w2=Cat+health+care&w3=Pet+health+cat&w4=Cat+health&w5=Heart+conditions&w6=
              Health+problem+in+cat&c=6&s=132&.sig=_zAGI3mljEo4tgsaN5zYFw> conditions

              Health
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+problem+in+cat&w1=Cat+health+ins
              urance&w2=Cat+health+care&w3=Pet+health+cat&w4=Cat+health&w5=Heart+condition
              s&w6=Health+problem+in+cat&c=6&s=132&.sig=UASqf76JeCyHxX8J7sXBdA> problem
              in cat



              _____

              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



              * Visit your group "feline-heart
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart> " on the web.


              * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


              * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



              _____



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Linda Fischbach
              Canned food is best. http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html and http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm can help with phosphorus. Linda
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 2, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Canned food is best.

                http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/jmpeerson/canfood.html and http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm can help with phosphorus.

                Linda
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Linda Cuéllar Irrgang
                To: 'Linda Fischbach' ; 'turkishangoraathumanesociety' ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.comC ; 'Linda Cuéllar Irrgang'
                Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:24 PM
                Subject: RE: [FH] Re: food dilemma


                But what brand is best..in wet vs. dry?



                -----Original Message-----
                From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Fischbach
                Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:17 PM
                To: 'turkishangoraathumanesociety'; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Linda Cuéllar Irrgang
                Subject: Re: [FH] Re: food dilemma



                Linda, I would try to feed a low phosphorus food.

                Linda

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Linda Cuéllar Irrgang" <irrgang@...>
                To: "'turkishangoraathumanesociety'"
                <turkishangoraathumanesociety@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:12 PM
                Subject: RE: [FH] Re: food dilemma


                What would you say is the best food for my Pumpkin who is starting to have
                higher creatinine values? He needs a specialty food that is tailored to the
                needs of an HCM kitty and also best for his kidneys. I have read a lot
                about a lot of foods but wondered what everyone here might have
                experienced...



                Thx for the help.



                Linda and Pumpkin



                -----Original Message-----
                From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of turkishangoraathumanesociety
                Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:46 PM
                To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [FH] Re: food dilemma



                Hi Ruthie...I think Nutro is a great brand (and Authority right under
                that) that you can get both at PetSmart (Nutro at a number of stores).
                Even better, though, I think, (and more expensive)is Innova and
                California Natural...a bit harder to find, but they have a store
                locator on their site. Smaller stores carry them, independant pet
                stores and health food stores for people. The store locator can be
                found at www.naturapet.com






                Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                feline-heart@yahoogroups.com




                _____

                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



                * Visit your group "feline-heart
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart> " on the web.


                * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


                * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



                _____



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                Yahoo! Groups Links










                Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com




                SPONSORED LINKS

                Cat health insurance
                Cat health care
                Pet health cat

                Cat health
                Heart conditions
                Health problem in cat





                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



                § Visit your group "feline-heart" on the web.


                § To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


                § Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • savionna@aol.com
                Hi Linda, In a message dated 1/2/06 7:13:41 PM, irrgang@Houston.rr.com writes:
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 3, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Linda,

                  In a message dated 1/2/06 7:13:41 PM, irrgang@... writes:

                  << What would you say is the best food for my Pumpkin who is starting to have

                  higher creatinine values? He needs a specialty food that is tailored to the

                  needs of an HCM kitty and also best for his kidneys. >>

                  Do you know why the creatinine values are rising? Are any other values out of
                  range? Besides kidney insufficiency, creatinine can elevate for various
                  reasons, incl urinary system infection, diet, dehydration, and metabolic disorders.
                  If you suspect chronic kidney insufficiency (and other contributing factors
                  are ruled out), then it's important to look at the cat's BUN, phosphorus,
                  potassium, sodium, calcium, hematocrit, and urine specific gravity to get a fuller
                  picture of the problem.

                  The current thinking is that kidney cats require the same diet as other cats,
                  incl those with heart disorders: a high-quality, low-carbohydrate,
                  well-balanced, moisture-rich, meat-based diet that comes as close as possible to meeting
                  a cat's nutritional needs. Cats with advanced (repeat: advanced) chronic
                  renal failure may feel better when phosphorus is restricted, but that does nothing
                  to halt progress of the disease. The recommendation to restrict protein (with
                  such products as Hill's k/d) is now considered not only unnecessary but
                  counterproductive for cats, as it contributes to malnutrition and muscle wasting
                  and actually puts more stress on the kidneys. The low-protein theory was based
                  on faulty interpretation of studies conducted in the early 1900s on rats and
                  dogs, who have very diff. nutritional needs than do cats. There used to be
                  several articles explaining this issue, but some are no longer available. One good
                  one is: "Nutritional Management of Dogs and Cats with Chronic Renal Failure"
                  by Kalkstein, DVM, DACVIM at www.southpaws.com/news/99-2-nutrition-CF.htm

                  So, the answer is to feed the highest-quality species-appropriate diet
                  possible. This eliminates all dry foods...and there is a short list of canned, incl:
                  Wellness, www.oldmotherhubbard.com; Nature's Variety, www.naturesvariety.com;
                  PetGuard, www.petguard.com; Felidae, www.canidae.com; Natural Balance,
                  www.naturalbalanceinc.com; Innova, www.naturapet.com; and Eagle Pack,
                  www.eaglepack.com.

                  You can check the phosphorus content of many foods at:
                  http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm. // Rosemary
                • Linda Fischbach
                  I agree that a cat in early CRF does not need a low protein diet, but I have to disagree about the phosphorus. The article you included discusses protein, not
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 3, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I agree that a cat in early CRF does not need a low protein diet, but I have
                    to disagree about the phosphorus. The article you included discusses
                    protein, not phosphorus.

                    As far as I know, there is no debate about that feeding CRF cats a low
                    phosphorus diet is better, even in early CRF. Keeping the cat's phosphorus
                    level as close to 4 as possible is important. There are good high protein
                    foods with low phosphorus, and with high phosphorus. For instance Wysong's
                    canned gourmet has low, but is also fairly high protein and low carb. But
                    some premium foods are very high in phosphorus.

                    Interestingly, cooked skinless chicken thighs (obviously high in protein)
                    have about the same amount of phosphorus per 100 calories as K/D has per 100
                    calories. So high protein doesn't always mean high phosphorus.

                    Linda


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <savionna@...>
                    To: <irrgang@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:32 AM
                    Subject: Re: [FH] Re: food dilemma


                    > Hi Linda,
                    >
                    > In a message dated 1/2/06 7:13:41 PM, irrgang@... writes:
                    >
                    > << What would you say is the best food for my Pumpkin who is starting to
                    > have
                    >
                    > higher creatinine values? He needs a specialty food that is tailored to
                    > the
                    >
                    > needs of an HCM kitty and also best for his kidneys. >>
                    >
                    > Do you know why the creatinine values are rising? Are any other values out
                    > of
                    > range? Besides kidney insufficiency, creatinine can elevate for various
                    > reasons, incl urinary system infection, diet, dehydration, and metabolic
                    > disorders.
                    > If you suspect chronic kidney insufficiency (and other contributing
                    > factors
                    > are ruled out), then it's important to look at the cat's BUN, phosphorus,
                    > potassium, sodium, calcium, hematocrit, and urine specific gravity to get
                    > a fuller
                    > picture of the problem.
                    >
                    > The current thinking is that kidney cats require the same diet as other
                    > cats,
                    > incl those with heart disorders: a high-quality, low-carbohydrate,
                    > well-balanced, moisture-rich, meat-based diet that comes as close as
                    > possible to meeting
                    > a cat's nutritional needs. Cats with advanced (repeat: advanced) chronic
                    > renal failure may feel better when phosphorus is restricted, but that does
                    > nothing
                    > to halt progress of the disease. The recommendation to restrict protein
                    > (with
                    > such products as Hill's k/d) is now considered not only unnecessary but
                    > counterproductive for cats, as it contributes to malnutrition and muscle
                    > wasting
                    > and actually puts more stress on the kidneys. The low-protein theory was
                    > based
                    > on faulty interpretation of studies conducted in the early 1900s on rats
                    > and
                    > dogs, who have very diff. nutritional needs than do cats. There used to be
                    > several articles explaining this issue, but some are no longer available.
                    > One good
                    > one is: "Nutritional Management of Dogs and Cats with Chronic Renal
                    > Failure"
                    > by Kalkstein, DVM, DACVIM at www.southpaws.com/news/99-2-nutrition-CF.htm
                    >
                    > So, the answer is to feed the highest-quality species-appropriate diet
                    > possible. This eliminates all dry foods...and there is a short list of
                    > canned, incl:
                    > Wellness, www.oldmotherhubbard.com; Nature's Variety,
                    > www.naturesvariety.com;
                    > PetGuard, www.petguard.com; Felidae, www.canidae.com; Natural Balance,
                    > www.naturalbalanceinc.com; Innova, www.naturapet.com; and Eagle Pack,
                    > www.eaglepack.com.
                    >
                    > You can check the phosphorus content of many foods at:
                    > http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm. // Rosemary
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                    > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                    > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Dana McCormick
                    Linda, As a parent to 2 kidney kitties & lucky parent to 1 kidney transplant kitty, I can tell you it s best to feed the protein restricted food. My Creampuff
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 3, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Linda,

                      As a parent to 2 kidney kitties & lucky parent to 1
                      kidney transplant kitty, I can tell you it's best to
                      feed the protein restricted food. My Creampuff lived
                      w/ CRF for 6.5 yrs & was on Hills K/D dry, she
                      wouldn't eat the canned. I firmly believe she
                      wouldn't have done so well for so long with a regular
                      food. My Mouse also ate this, again, wouldn't eat the
                      canned. They didn't love the food, but ate it. The
                      reason you need this type of food is because it allows
                      the kidneys to not have to work so hard. There is some
                      debate on this issue, but all the kidney specialists
                      I've spoken to go with the low protein theory.
                      Mousie's surgeon & the other surgeons in this very
                      limited field also go w/ the low protein & I would say
                      their opinions are very relevant. What's Pumpkin's
                      creatinine, BUN & PCV?

                      Creampuff got Alternagel as a phosphorous binder,
                      Mousie never needed it.

                      Feel free to drop a line if you need more info.

                      Dana

                      --- Linda Cuéllar Irrgang <irrgang@...>
                      wrote:

                      > What would you say is the best food for my Pumpkin
                      > who is starting to have
                      > higher creatinine values? He needs a specialty food
                      > that is tailored to the
                      > needs of an HCM kitty and also best for his kidneys.
                      > I have read a lot
                      > about a lot of foods but wondered what everyone here
                      > might have
                      > experienced…..
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Thx for the help.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Linda and Pumpkin
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf Of turkishangoraathumanesociety
                      > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:46 PM
                      > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [FH] Re: food dilemma
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Ruthie...I think Nutro is a great brand (and
                      > Authority right under
                      > that) that you can get both at PetSmart (Nutro at a
                      > number of stores).
                      > Even better, though, I think, (and more expensive)is
                      > Innova and
                      > California Natural...a bit harder to find, but they
                      > have a store
                      > locator on their site. Smaller stores carry them,
                      > independant pet
                      > stores and health food stores for people. The store
                      > locator can be
                      > found at www.naturapet.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If
                      > you feel your reply
                      > will benefit the entire group, please change the
                      > "To:" line to
                      > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > * Visit your group "feline-heart
                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart> " on
                      > the web.
                      >
                      >
                      > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                      > email to:
                      > feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      <mailto:feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > the Yahoo!
                      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of
                      > Service.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >





                      __________________________________
                      Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                      http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
                    • Linda Fischbach
                      Dana, if you need to give a phosphorus binder, you can buy containers of aluminum hydroxide dried gel powder, which is tasteless and odorless
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 3, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dana, if you need to give a phosphorus binder, you can buy containers of
                        aluminum hydroxide dried gel powder, which is tasteless and odorless
                        http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/binders.htm.

                        Remember that phosphorus should be below 6, and as close to 4 as possible.

                        Linda

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Dana McCormick" <danamcmk@...>
                        To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 12:52 PM
                        Subject: RE: [FH] Re: food dilemma


                        > Linda,
                        >
                        > As a parent to 2 kidney kitties & lucky parent to 1
                        > kidney transplant kitty, I can tell you it's best to
                        > feed the protein restricted food. My Creampuff lived
                        > w/ CRF for 6.5 yrs & was on Hills K/D dry, she
                        > wouldn't eat the canned. I firmly believe she
                        > wouldn't have done so well for so long with a regular
                        > food. My Mouse also ate this, again, wouldn't eat the
                        > canned. They didn't love the food, but ate it. The
                        > reason you need this type of food is because it allows
                        > the kidneys to not have to work so hard. There is some
                        > debate on this issue, but all the kidney specialists
                        > I've spoken to go with the low protein theory.
                        > Mousie's surgeon & the other surgeons in this very
                        > limited field also go w/ the low protein & I would say
                        > their opinions are very relevant. What's Pumpkin's
                        > creatinine, BUN & PCV?
                        >
                        > Creampuff got Alternagel as a phosphorous binder,
                        > Mousie never needed it.
                        >
                        > Feel free to drop a line if you need more info.
                        >
                        > Dana
                      • savionna@aol.com
                        Hi Linda, In a message dated 1/3/06 10:38:08 AM, fischbl@earthlink.net writes:
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 4, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Linda,

                          In a message dated 1/3/06 10:38:08 AM, fischbl@... writes:

                          << I agree that a cat in early CRF does not need a low protein diet, but I
                          have

                          to disagree about the phosphorus. >>

                          I think we also agree about phosphorus...but I didn't express myself clearly
                          in this complex issue. So thanks for picking up on this.

                          << As far as I know, there is no debate about that feeding CRF cats a low

                          phosphorus diet is better, even in early CRF. >>

                          I agree. But a diet with a "low" level of phosphorus is appropriate for all
                          cats...healthy, CRF, or cardiac...which is why I didn't call it out (but in
                          retrospect should have). I think part of the muddle may be with the definition of
                          "low."

                          To back up a little...mineral levels and balance are important for all cats,
                          esp the balance between phosphorus and calcium. And it's not a good idea for
                          any cat to regularly eat a "high" amt of phosphorus (like over
                          300-400mg/100kcal), even if it is balanced with calcium. The current recommendation is that a
                          healthy adult cat needs about 65-70mg phosphorus per kg body weight. So the
                          average 10 lb cat (4.5kg) needs about 300mg phosphorus daily.

                          Many of the commercial foods with higher-quality nutrition (eg Wellness,
                          Nature's Variety, Felidae, PetGuard) have flavors with about 1% phosphorus DM or
                          about/under 200mg/100kcal. If the average healthy 10-lb adult cat eats 200
                          calories of that food per day (to meet the average calorie requirement of 20
                          cal/lb/day), then he's getting about/under 400mg phosphorus. (By comparison,
                          typical prey animals...eg mouse, rat, rabbit, bird...have about 2-3% phosphorus DM
                          or about 200-300mg/100kcal.)

                          So is about 1% DM or 200mg/kcal low enough? (I thought it was.) Or do you
                          think a more severe restriction (like about 0.5% DM or 100mg/100kcal) is more
                          appropriate for a cat with elevated creatinine (which may indicate early kidney
                          insufficiency, tho I wasn't clear whether Linda's cat has CRF)? Are cats with
                          very restricted phosphorus intake at greater risk for metabolic acidosis and/or
                          anemia?

                          << Keeping the cat's phosphorus

                          level as close to 4 as possible is important. >>

                          Yes. A blood level around 4 mg/dL is important for all cats. Do you think
                          feeding a product with around 1% phosphorus DM would adversely affect the blood
                          phosphorus level for most cats?

                          << Interestingly, cooked skinless chicken thighs (obviously high in protein)

                          have about the same amount of phosphorus per 100 calories as K/D has per 100

                          calories. >>

                          Also interesting is that cooked skinless chicken thighs contain about twice
                          as much protein as k/d. 100kcal thighs = about 12.5g protein and 85mg
                          phosphorus. 100kcal k/d = about 6.5g protein and 80mg phosphorus.

                          And just to follow up on the low-protein issue for those juggling kidney and
                          heart disorders...there are a number of articles that cover the evolution of
                          the reduced-protein theory and why it's now considered inappropriate. They are
                          mostly about dogs, but the information is by and large applicable to cats, who
                          have a higher dietary protein requirement than do dogs and an essential need
                          for certain amino acids. (The first 2 had disappeared from the net for a
                          while, but are now available again in PDF format; click on the link below, then
                          scroll to find the hot link for the article titles):

                          1. "Mythology of Protein Restriction for Dogs with Reduced Renal Function,"
                          by Kenneth Bovee, DVM, MMedSc (UPenn) at
                          http://vetprof.com/clientinfo/KidneyDiseaseInDogs/diet.htm

                          2. "Effects of Dietary Protein Intake on Renal Functions," by Delmar Finco,
                          DVM, PhD (Univ of Ga) at
                          http://vetprof.com/clientinfo/KidneyDiseaseInDogs/diet.htm

                          3. "Dietary Protein and the Kidney" by Patricia Schenck, DVM, PhD (Michigan
                          State Univ) at
                          http://web.archive.org/web/20040205075757/http://www.cm-d.com/buckeye/tech_manual/8_28.html

                          4. www.dogaware.com/kidney.html

                          // Rosemary
                        • Linda Fischbach
                          Rosemary, I saved this and then never answered you. For a cat with CRF, a lower phosphorus died is best. 1%DM is really the highest one should feed, but 1%
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 5, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Rosemary, I saved this and then never answered you. For a cat with CRF, a
                            lower phosphorus died is best. 1%DM is really the highest one should feed,
                            but 1% really isn't that low. The kidneys usually remove the phosphorus
                            from the blood, but as CRF advances, the kidneys are more and more
                            inefficient about removing the phosphorus, so it tends to increase in the
                            blood.

                            With advanced CRF, a cat can have a phosphorus level of 10-20, even eating
                            very low phosphorus food. So phosphorus binders (aluminum hydroxide) are
                            used to bind even the small amount that is eaten. Most peope use binders
                            when a CRF cat's phosphorus gets above 6.

                            I lost my first CRF cat in 2000; Mittens and Topaz, who both had CRF, died
                            last year, but not from CRF. I fed Mittens and Topaz a moderately high
                            protein diet, but as low in phosphorus as K/D. They also had some binders
                            and their phosphorus level stayed close to 4.

                            Now I have one cat with early CRF. I've been a member of CRF Support for
                            over 6 years, and a mod for 5. And I own the Phosphorus Management group.

                            Linda

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: <Savionna@...>
                            To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>; <fischbl@...>
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:26 AM
                            Subject: Re: [FH] Re: food dilemma


                            > Hi Linda,
                            >
                            > In a message dated 1/3/06 10:38:08 AM, fischbl@... writes:
                            >
                            > << I agree that a cat in early CRF does not need a low protein diet, but I
                            > have
                            >
                            > to disagree about the phosphorus. >>
                            >
                            > I think we also agree about phosphorus...but I didn't express myself
                            > clearly
                            > in this complex issue. So thanks for picking up on this.
                            >
                            > << As far as I know, there is no debate about that feeding CRF cats a low
                            >
                            > phosphorus diet is better, even in early CRF. >>
                            >
                            > I agree. But a diet with a "low" level of phosphorus is appropriate for
                            > all
                            > cats...healthy, CRF, or cardiac...which is why I didn't call it out (but
                            > in
                            > retrospect should have). I think part of the muddle may be with the
                            > definition of
                            > "low."
                            >
                            > To back up a little...mineral levels and balance are important for all
                            > cats,
                            > esp the balance between phosphorus and calcium. And it's not a good idea
                            > for
                            > any cat to regularly eat a "high" amt of phosphorus (like over
                            > 300-400mg/100kcal), even if it is balanced with calcium. The current
                            > recommendation is that a
                            > healthy adult cat needs about 65-70mg phosphorus per kg body weight. So
                            > the
                            > average 10 lb cat (4.5kg) needs about 300mg phosphorus daily.
                            >
                            > Many of the commercial foods with higher-quality nutrition (eg Wellness,
                            > Nature's Variety, Felidae, PetGuard) have flavors with about 1% phosphorus
                            > DM or
                            > about/under 200mg/100kcal. If the average healthy 10-lb adult cat eats 200
                            > calories of that food per day (to meet the average calorie requirement of
                            > 20
                            > cal/lb/day), then he's getting about/under 400mg phosphorus. (By
                            > comparison,
                            > typical prey animals...eg mouse, rat, rabbit, bird...have about 2-3%
                            > phosphorus DM
                            > or about 200-300mg/100kcal.)
                            >
                            > So is about 1% DM or 200mg/kcal low enough? (I thought it was.) Or do you
                            > think a more severe restriction (like about 0.5% DM or 100mg/100kcal) is
                            > more
                            > appropriate for a cat with elevated creatinine (which may indicate early
                            > kidney
                            > insufficiency, tho I wasn't clear whether Linda's cat has CRF)? Are cats
                            > with
                            > very restricted phosphorus intake at greater risk for metabolic acidosis
                            > and/or
                            > anemia?
                            >
                            > << Keeping the cat's phosphorus
                            >
                            > level as close to 4 as possible is important. >>
                            >
                            > Yes. A blood level around 4 mg/dL is important for all cats. Do you think
                            > feeding a product with around 1% phosphorus DM would adversely affect the
                            > blood
                            > phosphorus level for most cats?
                            >
                            > << Interestingly, cooked skinless chicken thighs (obviously high in
                            > protein)
                            >
                            > have about the same amount of phosphorus per 100 calories as K/D has per
                            > 100
                            >
                            > calories. >>
                            >
                            > Also interesting is that cooked skinless chicken thighs contain about
                            > twice
                            > as much protein as k/d. 100kcal thighs = about 12.5g protein and 85mg
                            > phosphorus. 100kcal k/d = about 6.5g protein and 80mg phosphorus.
                            >
                            > And just to follow up on the low-protein issue for those juggling kidney
                            > and
                            > heart disorders...there are a number of articles that cover the evolution
                            > of
                            > the reduced-protein theory and why it's now considered inappropriate. They
                            > are
                            > mostly about dogs, but the information is by and large applicable to cats,
                            > who
                            > have a higher dietary protein requirement than do dogs and an essential
                            > need
                            > for certain amino acids. (The first 2 had disappeared from the net for a
                            > while, but are now available again in PDF format; click on the link below,
                            > then
                            > scroll to find the hot link for the article titles):
                            >
                            > 1. "Mythology of Protein Restriction for Dogs with Reduced Renal
                            > Function,"
                            > by Kenneth Bovee, DVM, MMedSc (UPenn) at
                            > http://vetprof.com/clientinfo/KidneyDiseaseInDogs/diet.htm
                            >
                            > 2. "Effects of Dietary Protein Intake on Renal Functions," by Delmar
                            > Finco,
                            > DVM, PhD (Univ of Ga) at
                            > http://vetprof.com/clientinfo/KidneyDiseaseInDogs/diet.htm
                            >
                            > 3. "Dietary Protein and the Kidney" by Patricia Schenck, DVM, PhD
                            > (Michigan
                            > State Univ) at
                            > http://web.archive.org/web/20040205075757/http://www.cm-d.com/buckeye/tech_manual/8_28.html
                            >
                            > 4. www.dogaware.com/kidney.html
                            >
                            > // Rosemary
                            >
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.