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Re: [FH] So my baby boys have heart murmurs too

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  • Sue B
    Lisa, Interesting.... What form do you use and how much? I m current giving Pepper .5 ml twice daily of the liquid DMG from US Animal Nutritionals. Where do
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
      Lisa,

      Interesting.... What form do you use and how much? I'm current giving Pepper .5 ml twice daily of the liquid DMG from US Animal Nutritionals.

      Where do you get yours?



      Sue


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Lisa Clarizia
      To: Sue B
      Cc: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:02 PM
      Subject: Re: [FH] So my baby boys have heart murmurs too


      Sue (and Lisa),

      It wasn't me ... Rosemary's the nutrional guru :)

      Baby Boy gets DMG (dimethylglycine) and TMG (trimethylglycine) -- they are different, aside from the number of methyl groups, they do different things.

      DMG serves as an oxygen transport molecule and methyl donor in the respiratory cycle of cells. It is dervived from TMG in the body, which in turn is derived from choline. I give this because Baby Boy's heart has the elasticity of a sandwich baggie and I figure he needs all the help with oxygenation he can get.

      TMG, on the other hand, methylates and detoxifies homocysteine (which is harmful) to form methionine (an amino acid). It's debatable how much good the elimination of homocysteine will actually do for a cat with a cardiomyopathy, since homocysteine is implicated in coronary artery disease, not cardiomyopathy -- but I give it on the theory that if it helps protect the integrity of the blood vessel linings, it can't hurt and may have a *slight* benefit in terms of preventing clot formation.

      Basically, if you were to give just one (and with so many cats getting buckets of supplements, you might want to do this) I'd give TMG, since you will end up with DMG as a breakdown product of TMG.

      Lisa


      On 11/2/05, Sue B <rockii@...> wrote:
      Lisa,

      I never heard of TMG and would love to hear what other people have to say.

      I was feeding Missing Link but someone here (Rosemary or Lisa?) mentioned
      that it's really not appropriately formulated for cats. The Kelp contains
      something that may actually be harmful and there's too many carbohydrates.

      My girl is a Maine Coon - I absolutely love her personality -
      http://www.magdrl-nj.com/Pepper.html



      Sue



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • taloah2000
      Sue, your girl is beautiful! I always said the only way I d get another cat was if a Maine Coon rescue fell in my lap like my last guy - he was such a love.
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
        Sue, your girl is beautiful! I always said the only way I'd get
        another cat was if a Maine Coon rescue fell in my lap like my last
        guy - he was such a love. But Dexter is so much like one that I am
        seriously tempted to keep him (though am a bit leery of having foster
        kids who may have major issues around him). Thanks for the tip on
        Missing Link - I will stay away!

        Anyone know of any other good powdered supplement that I could mix my
        taurine, TMG, and carnitine in to simplify life a bit?

        Lisa, I guess I need to find out more about how efficiently TMG is
        converted into DMG since it seems to be the more important
        supplement. I had TMG already since I take it to keep my own
        homocysteine levels down and ward off depression. Thanks for the
        explanation - I didn't realize DMG had a function beyond methyl
        donation.

        Thank you for your help!

        Lisa

        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Clarizia <lclarizia@g...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Sue (and Lisa),
        >
        > It wasn't me ... Rosemary's the nutrional guru :)
        >
        > Baby Boy gets DMG (dimethylglycine) and TMG (trimethylglycine) --
        they are
        > different, aside from the number of methyl groups, they do
        different things.
        >
        > DMG serves as an oxygen transport molecule and methyl donor in the
        > respiratory cycle of cells. It is dervived from TMG in the body,
        which in
        > turn is derived from choline. I give this because Baby Boy's heart
        has the
        > elasticity of a sandwich baggie and I figure he needs all the help
        with
        > oxygenation he can get.
        >
        > TMG, on the other hand, methylates and detoxifies homocysteine
        (which is
        > harmful) to form methionine (an amino acid). It's debatable how
        much good
        > the elimination of homocysteine will actually do for a cat with a
        > cardiomyopathy, since homocysteine is implicated in coronary artery
        disease,
        > not cardiomyopathy -- but I give it on the theory that if it helps
        protect
        > the integrity of the blood vessel linings, it can't hurt and may
        have a
        > *slight* benefit in terms of preventing clot formation.
        >
        > Basically, if you were to give just one (and with so many cats
        getting
        > buckets of supplements, you might want to do this) I'd give TMG,
        since you
        > will end up with DMG as a breakdown product of TMG.
        >
        > Lisa
        >
        > On 11/2/05, Sue B <rockii@o...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Lisa,
        > >
        > > I never heard of TMG and would love to hear what other people
        have to say.
        > >
        > > I was feeding Missing Link but someone here (Rosemary or Lisa?)
        mentioned
        > > that it's really not appropriately formulated for cats. The Kelp
        contains
        > > something that may actually be harmful and there's too many
        carbohydrates.
        > >
        > > My girl is a Maine Coon - I absolutely love her personality -
        > > http://www.magdrl-nj.com/Pepper.html
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Sue
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "taloah2000" <lisabee@c...>
        > > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:21 AM
        > > Subject: Re: [FH] So my baby boys have heart murmurs too
        > >
        > >
        > > > Thank you Sue...they are all really sweeties although Dexter is
        my
        > > > favorite - he has a Maine Coonish personality.
        > > >
        > > > I have a couple more supplement questions. I understand people
        are
        > > > using DMG for their babies - is anyone using TMG (basically the
        same
        > > > thing except with three methyl groups instead of two, and much
        > > > cheaper) instead? And is anyone using the supplement "Missing
        Link?"
        > > > I was thinking it might be easier to mix a proportionate amount
        of
        > > > each of the powdered supplements in with it rather than having
        to
        > > > mash up a new Carnitine (and potentially TMG) every day. Any
        thoughts
        > > > on whether this stuff is truly useful or not?
        > > >
        > > > Thanks!
        > > >
        > > > Lisa (and foster kitties Dexter, Tinytim, and Cameron, and
        forever
        > > > kitty Gracie)
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Sue B <rockii@o...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi,
        > > > >
        > > > > What cute kittens!
        > > > >
        > > > > Yes, I would start supplementing. The supplements recommended
        on
        > > > this group
        > > > > would help improve the health of any cat. They are good all-
        round
        > > > > supplements. Personally, I take CoQ10 myself.
        > > > >
        > > > > I might hesitate to get them shots. Sometimes the
        vaccinations can
        > > > affect
        > > > > the health of a comprimised animal. My girl had vaccinosis
        from
        > > > her rabies
        > > > > shot and required major surgery (twice - I didn't realize
        what it
        > > > was the
        > > > > first time and stupid me - got her another shot two years
        later).
        > > > >
        > > > > Does anyone else on the list have an opinion on that?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Sue
        >
      • MJ Johnson
        Tinytim is so cute! Where do you live? Michigan? [She asked hopefully?] I have two older kitties, one with both HCM and CRF, but it wouldn t preclude
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
          Tinytim is so cute! Where do you live? Michigan?
          [She asked hopefully?]

          I have two older kitties, one with both HCM and CRF,
          but it wouldn't preclude adoption of a new fur baby,
          or at least help finding a home for him : )

          And our furry family commends you for being such a
          good kitty mom to look after your little ones.

          Sending you great kitty karma and wishes for homes for
          your babies,
          MJ & Rupert & Bimmer
          >^..^<



          __________________________________
          Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
          http://farechase.yahoo.com
        • taloah2000
          Sorry - I am in Metro DC. But yeah, he is utterly adorable. :) And I really couldn t have done anything else - I am glad to have the chance to get them started
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
            Sorry - I am in Metro DC. But yeah, he is utterly adorable. :) And I
            really couldn't have done anything else - I am glad to have the chance
            to get them started on a good life. I do so hope their little hearts
            are ok so that they will be easy to place.

            I dunno what it is with me and pets I have fostered/adopted - the
            first cat I got from the animal shelter had a double heart murmur
            (she's with my mom now as she likes to go outside and I won't let her
            here - 7 yrs old and going strong), my foster dog had a heart murmur
            and arrhythmia , though not serious, and now three out of four foster
            kitties have heart murmurs!!

            Thank you for the good wishes for my little guys. :)

            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, MJ Johnson <mjj_007@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Tinytim is so cute! Where do you live? Michigan?
            > [She asked hopefully?]
            >
            > I have two older kitties, one with both HCM and CRF,
            > but it wouldn't preclude adoption of a new fur baby,
            > or at least help finding a home for him : )
            >
            > And our furry family commends you for being such a
            > good kitty mom to look after your little ones.
            >
            > Sending you great kitty karma and wishes for homes for
            > your babies,
            > MJ & Rupert & Bimmer
            > >^..^<
            >
          • savionna@aol.com
            Hi Lisa, In a message dated 11/2/05 11:29:07 AM, lisabee@caliescali.com writes: No.
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
              Hi Lisa,

              In a message dated 11/2/05 11:29:07 AM, lisabee@... writes:

              << And is anyone using the supplement "Missing Link?" >>

              No.


              << Any thoughts

              on whether this stuff is truly useful or not? >>

              It is not the slightest bit useful to anyone other than the mfr, which
              profits from our ignorance.

              These are the primary ingredients in the product: flax seed, blackstrap
              molasses, rice bran, primary dried yeast, freeze dried liver, sunflower seed,
              dehydrated alfalfa, dried carrot, freeze dried bone, dried fish meal, freeze dried
              oyster, sprouted green barley, dried kelp, lecithin, garlic, and yucca
              schidigera extract.

              With the exception of liver and bone (and we don't know from which species),
              none of those ingredients bears any resemblance to any food that cats have
              eaten thruout their evolutionary history, nor do they have a nutritional profile
              that compares with any food in the cat's evolutionary diet. There is no valid
              nutritional reason to feed a cat any of those ingredients...nor to use the
              product, not least of all b/c there is no information on what nutrients those
              ingredients contain and in what amts. If a cat really needs the nutrients in a
              carrot (and it doesn't), why not feed a carrot? Further, many of the ingredients
              are potentially problematic. Just a few examples: alfalfa contains cavanine,
              which can block arginine, an essential amino acid for cats; kelp can affect
              thyroid function; and garlic is a risk factor for a type of anemia.

              If the cat truly needs nutritional support, there is a good multisupplement
              available called NuCat (www.vetriscience.com), also sold as Tabby Tabs by a
              sister company (www.usanimalnutritionals.com). And there are quality human brand
              supplements available for many individual nutrients. // Rosemary
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