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Re: [FH] So my baby boys have heart murmurs too

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  • Lisa Clarizia
    Sue (and Lisa), It wasn t me ... Rosemary s the nutrional guru :) Baby Boy gets DMG (dimethylglycine) and TMG (trimethylglycine) -- they are different, aside
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
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      Sue (and Lisa),

      It wasn't me ... Rosemary's the nutrional guru :)

      Baby Boy gets DMG (dimethylglycine) and TMG (trimethylglycine) -- they are
      different, aside from the number of methyl groups, they do different things.

      DMG serves as an oxygen transport molecule and methyl donor in the
      respiratory cycle of cells. It is dervived from TMG in the body, which in
      turn is derived from choline. I give this because Baby Boy's heart has the
      elasticity of a sandwich baggie and I figure he needs all the help with
      oxygenation he can get.

      TMG, on the other hand, methylates and detoxifies homocysteine (which is
      harmful) to form methionine (an amino acid). It's debatable how much good
      the elimination of homocysteine will actually do for a cat with a
      cardiomyopathy, since homocysteine is implicated in coronary artery disease,
      not cardiomyopathy -- but I give it on the theory that if it helps protect
      the integrity of the blood vessel linings, it can't hurt and may have a
      *slight* benefit in terms of preventing clot formation.

      Basically, if you were to give just one (and with so many cats getting
      buckets of supplements, you might want to do this) I'd give TMG, since you
      will end up with DMG as a breakdown product of TMG.

      Lisa

      On 11/2/05, Sue B <rockii@...> wrote:
      >
      > Lisa,
      >
      > I never heard of TMG and would love to hear what other people have to say.
      >
      > I was feeding Missing Link but someone here (Rosemary or Lisa?) mentioned
      > that it's really not appropriately formulated for cats. The Kelp contains
      > something that may actually be harmful and there's too many carbohydrates.
      >
      > My girl is a Maine Coon - I absolutely love her personality -
      > http://www.magdrl-nj.com/Pepper.html
      >
      >
      >
      > Sue
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "taloah2000" <lisabee@...>
      > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:21 AM
      > Subject: Re: [FH] So my baby boys have heart murmurs too
      >
      >
      > > Thank you Sue...they are all really sweeties although Dexter is my
      > > favorite - he has a Maine Coonish personality.
      > >
      > > I have a couple more supplement questions. I understand people are
      > > using DMG for their babies - is anyone using TMG (basically the same
      > > thing except with three methyl groups instead of two, and much
      > > cheaper) instead? And is anyone using the supplement "Missing Link?"
      > > I was thinking it might be easier to mix a proportionate amount of
      > > each of the powdered supplements in with it rather than having to
      > > mash up a new Carnitine (and potentially TMG) every day. Any thoughts
      > > on whether this stuff is truly useful or not?
      > >
      > > Thanks!
      > >
      > > Lisa (and foster kitties Dexter, Tinytim, and Cameron, and forever
      > > kitty Gracie)
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Sue B <rockii@o...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi,
      > > >
      > > > What cute kittens!
      > > >
      > > > Yes, I would start supplementing. The supplements recommended on
      > > this group
      > > > would help improve the health of any cat. They are good all-round
      > > > supplements. Personally, I take CoQ10 myself.
      > > >
      > > > I might hesitate to get them shots. Sometimes the vaccinations can
      > > affect
      > > > the health of a comprimised animal. My girl had vaccinosis from
      > > her rabies
      > > > shot and required major surgery (twice - I didn't realize what it
      > > was the
      > > > first time and stupid me - got her another shot two years later).
      > > >
      > > > Does anyone else on the list have an opinion on that?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Sue
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
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      --
      Lisa Clarizia
      lclarizia@...


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sue B
      Lisa, Interesting.... What form do you use and how much? I m current giving Pepper .5 ml twice daily of the liquid DMG from US Animal Nutritionals. Where do
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
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        Lisa,

        Interesting.... What form do you use and how much? I'm current giving Pepper .5 ml twice daily of the liquid DMG from US Animal Nutritionals.

        Where do you get yours?



        Sue


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Lisa Clarizia
        To: Sue B
        Cc: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:02 PM
        Subject: Re: [FH] So my baby boys have heart murmurs too


        Sue (and Lisa),

        It wasn't me ... Rosemary's the nutrional guru :)

        Baby Boy gets DMG (dimethylglycine) and TMG (trimethylglycine) -- they are different, aside from the number of methyl groups, they do different things.

        DMG serves as an oxygen transport molecule and methyl donor in the respiratory cycle of cells. It is dervived from TMG in the body, which in turn is derived from choline. I give this because Baby Boy's heart has the elasticity of a sandwich baggie and I figure he needs all the help with oxygenation he can get.

        TMG, on the other hand, methylates and detoxifies homocysteine (which is harmful) to form methionine (an amino acid). It's debatable how much good the elimination of homocysteine will actually do for a cat with a cardiomyopathy, since homocysteine is implicated in coronary artery disease, not cardiomyopathy -- but I give it on the theory that if it helps protect the integrity of the blood vessel linings, it can't hurt and may have a *slight* benefit in terms of preventing clot formation.

        Basically, if you were to give just one (and with so many cats getting buckets of supplements, you might want to do this) I'd give TMG, since you will end up with DMG as a breakdown product of TMG.

        Lisa


        On 11/2/05, Sue B <rockii@...> wrote:
        Lisa,

        I never heard of TMG and would love to hear what other people have to say.

        I was feeding Missing Link but someone here (Rosemary or Lisa?) mentioned
        that it's really not appropriately formulated for cats. The Kelp contains
        something that may actually be harmful and there's too many carbohydrates.

        My girl is a Maine Coon - I absolutely love her personality -
        http://www.magdrl-nj.com/Pepper.html



        Sue



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • taloah2000
        Sue, your girl is beautiful! I always said the only way I d get another cat was if a Maine Coon rescue fell in my lap like my last guy - he was such a love.
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
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          Sue, your girl is beautiful! I always said the only way I'd get
          another cat was if a Maine Coon rescue fell in my lap like my last
          guy - he was such a love. But Dexter is so much like one that I am
          seriously tempted to keep him (though am a bit leery of having foster
          kids who may have major issues around him). Thanks for the tip on
          Missing Link - I will stay away!

          Anyone know of any other good powdered supplement that I could mix my
          taurine, TMG, and carnitine in to simplify life a bit?

          Lisa, I guess I need to find out more about how efficiently TMG is
          converted into DMG since it seems to be the more important
          supplement. I had TMG already since I take it to keep my own
          homocysteine levels down and ward off depression. Thanks for the
          explanation - I didn't realize DMG had a function beyond methyl
          donation.

          Thank you for your help!

          Lisa

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Clarizia <lclarizia@g...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Sue (and Lisa),
          >
          > It wasn't me ... Rosemary's the nutrional guru :)
          >
          > Baby Boy gets DMG (dimethylglycine) and TMG (trimethylglycine) --
          they are
          > different, aside from the number of methyl groups, they do
          different things.
          >
          > DMG serves as an oxygen transport molecule and methyl donor in the
          > respiratory cycle of cells. It is dervived from TMG in the body,
          which in
          > turn is derived from choline. I give this because Baby Boy's heart
          has the
          > elasticity of a sandwich baggie and I figure he needs all the help
          with
          > oxygenation he can get.
          >
          > TMG, on the other hand, methylates and detoxifies homocysteine
          (which is
          > harmful) to form methionine (an amino acid). It's debatable how
          much good
          > the elimination of homocysteine will actually do for a cat with a
          > cardiomyopathy, since homocysteine is implicated in coronary artery
          disease,
          > not cardiomyopathy -- but I give it on the theory that if it helps
          protect
          > the integrity of the blood vessel linings, it can't hurt and may
          have a
          > *slight* benefit in terms of preventing clot formation.
          >
          > Basically, if you were to give just one (and with so many cats
          getting
          > buckets of supplements, you might want to do this) I'd give TMG,
          since you
          > will end up with DMG as a breakdown product of TMG.
          >
          > Lisa
          >
          > On 11/2/05, Sue B <rockii@o...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Lisa,
          > >
          > > I never heard of TMG and would love to hear what other people
          have to say.
          > >
          > > I was feeding Missing Link but someone here (Rosemary or Lisa?)
          mentioned
          > > that it's really not appropriately formulated for cats. The Kelp
          contains
          > > something that may actually be harmful and there's too many
          carbohydrates.
          > >
          > > My girl is a Maine Coon - I absolutely love her personality -
          > > http://www.magdrl-nj.com/Pepper.html
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Sue
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "taloah2000" <lisabee@c...>
          > > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:21 AM
          > > Subject: Re: [FH] So my baby boys have heart murmurs too
          > >
          > >
          > > > Thank you Sue...they are all really sweeties although Dexter is
          my
          > > > favorite - he has a Maine Coonish personality.
          > > >
          > > > I have a couple more supplement questions. I understand people
          are
          > > > using DMG for their babies - is anyone using TMG (basically the
          same
          > > > thing except with three methyl groups instead of two, and much
          > > > cheaper) instead? And is anyone using the supplement "Missing
          Link?"
          > > > I was thinking it might be easier to mix a proportionate amount
          of
          > > > each of the powdered supplements in with it rather than having
          to
          > > > mash up a new Carnitine (and potentially TMG) every day. Any
          thoughts
          > > > on whether this stuff is truly useful or not?
          > > >
          > > > Thanks!
          > > >
          > > > Lisa (and foster kitties Dexter, Tinytim, and Cameron, and
          forever
          > > > kitty Gracie)
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Sue B <rockii@o...> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi,
          > > > >
          > > > > What cute kittens!
          > > > >
          > > > > Yes, I would start supplementing. The supplements recommended
          on
          > > > this group
          > > > > would help improve the health of any cat. They are good all-
          round
          > > > > supplements. Personally, I take CoQ10 myself.
          > > > >
          > > > > I might hesitate to get them shots. Sometimes the
          vaccinations can
          > > > affect
          > > > > the health of a comprimised animal. My girl had vaccinosis
          from
          > > > her rabies
          > > > > shot and required major surgery (twice - I didn't realize
          what it
          > > > was the
          > > > > first time and stupid me - got her another shot two years
          later).
          > > > >
          > > > > Does anyone else on the list have an opinion on that?
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Sue
          >
        • MJ Johnson
          Tinytim is so cute! Where do you live? Michigan? [She asked hopefully?] I have two older kitties, one with both HCM and CRF, but it wouldn t preclude
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
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            Tinytim is so cute! Where do you live? Michigan?
            [She asked hopefully?]

            I have two older kitties, one with both HCM and CRF,
            but it wouldn't preclude adoption of a new fur baby,
            or at least help finding a home for him : )

            And our furry family commends you for being such a
            good kitty mom to look after your little ones.

            Sending you great kitty karma and wishes for homes for
            your babies,
            MJ & Rupert & Bimmer
            >^..^<



            __________________________________
            Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
            http://farechase.yahoo.com
          • taloah2000
            Sorry - I am in Metro DC. But yeah, he is utterly adorable. :) And I really couldn t have done anything else - I am glad to have the chance to get them started
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
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              Sorry - I am in Metro DC. But yeah, he is utterly adorable. :) And I
              really couldn't have done anything else - I am glad to have the chance
              to get them started on a good life. I do so hope their little hearts
              are ok so that they will be easy to place.

              I dunno what it is with me and pets I have fostered/adopted - the
              first cat I got from the animal shelter had a double heart murmur
              (she's with my mom now as she likes to go outside and I won't let her
              here - 7 yrs old and going strong), my foster dog had a heart murmur
              and arrhythmia , though not serious, and now three out of four foster
              kitties have heart murmurs!!

              Thank you for the good wishes for my little guys. :)

              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, MJ Johnson <mjj_007@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Tinytim is so cute! Where do you live? Michigan?
              > [She asked hopefully?]
              >
              > I have two older kitties, one with both HCM and CRF,
              > but it wouldn't preclude adoption of a new fur baby,
              > or at least help finding a home for him : )
              >
              > And our furry family commends you for being such a
              > good kitty mom to look after your little ones.
              >
              > Sending you great kitty karma and wishes for homes for
              > your babies,
              > MJ & Rupert & Bimmer
              > >^..^<
              >
            • savionna@aol.com
              Hi Lisa, In a message dated 11/2/05 11:29:07 AM, lisabee@caliescali.com writes: No.
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
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                Hi Lisa,

                In a message dated 11/2/05 11:29:07 AM, lisabee@... writes:

                << And is anyone using the supplement "Missing Link?" >>

                No.


                << Any thoughts

                on whether this stuff is truly useful or not? >>

                It is not the slightest bit useful to anyone other than the mfr, which
                profits from our ignorance.

                These are the primary ingredients in the product: flax seed, blackstrap
                molasses, rice bran, primary dried yeast, freeze dried liver, sunflower seed,
                dehydrated alfalfa, dried carrot, freeze dried bone, dried fish meal, freeze dried
                oyster, sprouted green barley, dried kelp, lecithin, garlic, and yucca
                schidigera extract.

                With the exception of liver and bone (and we don't know from which species),
                none of those ingredients bears any resemblance to any food that cats have
                eaten thruout their evolutionary history, nor do they have a nutritional profile
                that compares with any food in the cat's evolutionary diet. There is no valid
                nutritional reason to feed a cat any of those ingredients...nor to use the
                product, not least of all b/c there is no information on what nutrients those
                ingredients contain and in what amts. If a cat really needs the nutrients in a
                carrot (and it doesn't), why not feed a carrot? Further, many of the ingredients
                are potentially problematic. Just a few examples: alfalfa contains cavanine,
                which can block arginine, an essential amino acid for cats; kelp can affect
                thyroid function; and garlic is a risk factor for a type of anemia.

                If the cat truly needs nutritional support, there is a good multisupplement
                available called NuCat (www.vetriscience.com), also sold as Tabby Tabs by a
                sister company (www.usanimalnutritionals.com). And there are quality human brand
                supplements available for many individual nutrients. // Rosemary
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