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Re: [FH] Weight loss (was CoQ-10 and L-Carnitine dosages)

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  • Sue B
    Gwen, I got Pepper on some good-quality canned food. I also cut out almost all her treats (except for after medicine) and got her a good-quality dry food that
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 31, 2005
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      Gwen,

      I got Pepper on some good-quality canned food. I also cut out almost all
      her treats (except for after medicine) and got her a good-quality dry food
      that she doesn't really like (so she eats mostly canned, which is better for
      her). It's just there if she's really hungry.

      For canned, she gets mostly Pet Guard. The few grains in it are
      low-glycemic ones and there are no byproducts. She likes the "turkey barley
      lite", "beef and barley", and the "savory seafood". She also occasionally
      gets Solid Gold tuna, but she gets picky about that. Some days she loves
      the fishy stuff and then she won't go near it, but it's not good for cats to
      eat over a long time. Her dry food is IVD "green pea and venison" (that's
      literally all that's in it). It's a prescription food for cats with
      allergies and you can get it from a vet or through a couple online sites.
      But there's now a copy-cat version made by Natural Balance
      http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/allergy/home.html. You can find where it's
      sold here - http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/home/locator.tpl

      I was told to limit Pepper's intake to either 6 oz canned or 1/2 cup dry or
      a combination. She did lose a lot of weight in a short time - 3 pounds in
      about 6 months - but I know that some of it was fluid. Each time her lasix
      was increased, she lost more.

      She was chubby at 18 pounds, but now 15 pounds is a good weight for her.
      Especially since she also has asthma and hip displaysia.


      Sue



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "g minnier" <paragem@...>
      To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 9:56 PM
      Subject: [FH] Weight loss (was CoQ-10 and L-Carnitine dosages)


      > Sue, I saw in your post to Tanya that your Pepper has lost weight. How
      did
      > you do it? My Bud is 16 lbs and the vet says that is TOO MUCH - in fact,
      he
      > is what she calls "pre-diabetic". My poor boy, the echo today showed his
      > heart has not changed since July 2004 (good news) but the bad news was the
      > high sugar. She says she has seen cats lose weight and stay on one of the
      > prescription diets and get rid of the diabetes so I need to find a good
      way
      > to help him lose a couple of pounds. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
      > Gwen and the 3 cats in Phoenix
      >
      >
    • savionna@aol.com
      Hi Gwen, In a message dated 10/31/05 9:57:10 PM, paragem@hotmail.com writes: What does Bud eat (brand, flavor, canned or dry)? The
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 1, 2005
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        Hi Gwen,

        In a message dated 10/31/05 9:57:10 PM, paragem@... writes:

        << My Bud is 16 lbs >>

        What does Bud eat (brand, flavor, canned or dry)? The leading contributing
        factor to obesity in cats is a dry food diet, which is high in carbohydrate.
        Just two excerpts from the links below:

        1. From Elizabeth Hodgkins DVM (former director of Hill's Pet Nutrition) at
        http://rocquoone.com/diet_and_health.htm:

        "Excessive carbohydrate consumption, over time, causes both obesity and
        strongly predisposes the cat, an obligatory carnivore, to the metabolic "train
        wreak" we know as type II feline diabetes mellitus....Consumption of dry cat food
        causes a very rapid and extreme surge in blood glucose as the predigested
        carbohydrate in the food is dissolved and absorbed into the bloodstream
        essentially as sugar from the stomach and intestines....Along the way, the constant high
        insulin levels (hyperinsulinemia) cause the cat to experience
        hypertriglyceridemia (high triglycerides) and hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol), and
        obesity results....For now, there is compelling scientific evidence to show that
        high carbohydrate diets (essentially all dry cat foods) fed to pet cats on a
        continuous and exclusive basis predispose to, or even directly cause, feline
        obesity and type II feline diabetes mellitus." 

        2. From Lisa A. Pierson, DVM at www.catinfo.org:

        "Obesity is an extremely common and very serious health problem in cats. For
        instance, overweight cats are four times more likely to develop diabetes than
        cats that are at an optimal weight. Obligate carnivores are designed to meet
        their energy needs with a high protein, moderate fat diet with little to no
        carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are minimally used for energy and those that are
        not used are converted to and stored as fat. The so-called “light” diets that
        are on the market have targeted the fat content as the nutrient to be
        decreased, but in doing so, the pet food manufacturers have increased the grain
        fraction, leading to a higher level of carbohydrates. Hence, many overweight cats
        eating these diets are still obese. These "light" products are among the most
        species-inappropriate, unhealthy diets available to cat caretakers. Many
        caretakers feed very small amounts of these diets hoping that their cat will lose
        weight but feeding a small amount of a diet that is inappropriate for the species
        is NOT the answer!".

        << the vet says that is TOO MUCH - in fact, he
        is what she calls "pre-diabetic". >>

        See above. A high carbohydrate diet is also the leading contributing factor
        to feline diabetes. Cats who are borderline...with a blood glucose of 150-200
        mg/dL...are giving us a warning that the pancreas is starting to not function.
        Changing the diet to a high-quality, low-carbohdyrate, well-balanced,
        moisture-rich, meat-based diet...that is, the diet for which a cat's body was
        designed...can restore pancreatic function in most cats.

        << the bad news was the
        high sugar. >>

        How high? Above 200 mg/dL? Was it a fasting blood sample? If not, how many
        hrs was the sample taken after a meal?

        << She says she has seen cats lose weight and stay on one of the
        prescription diets and get rid of the diabetes >>

        She may have seen that. But there is absolutely no reason to feed any cat a
        "prescription" diet, which are uniformly of poor nutritional quality. This is
        doubly true for diabetics, who used to be prescribed Hill's w/d...which is a
        high-carbohydrate, high-fiber diet that is completely contraindicated for cats,
        esp diabetics (it doesn't work well in humans or dogs, either)...precisely b/c
        it is high in carbohydrate. Now they are prescribed either Purina DM or
        Hill's m/d, both of which may have lower carbohdyrate content than most commercial
        dry foods (13% of calories, as opposed to the usual 20-50%; Innova's new EVO
        has 7% of calories from carbohdyrate)...but they have very poor nutritional
        quality.

        There are several canned commercial products with high nutritional quality
        and low carbohydrates. These incl: Wellness, www.oldmotherhubbard.com; Nature's
        Variety, www.naturesvariety.com; PetGuard, www.petguard.com; Felidae,
        www.canidae.com; Natural Balance, www.naturalbalanceinc.com; Innova,
        www.naturapet.com; and Eagle Pack, www.eaglepack.com.

        Only the first 2 are grain free in the entire line...and contain usually less
        than 5% calories from carbohydrate. The rest contain grains but are generally
        under 10%.

        << I need to find a good way
        to help him lose a couple of pounds. >>

        Cats will achieve and stabilize at a healthy weight for their frames when fed
        a species-appropriate diet.

        << Any suggestions will be appreciated. >>

        It might be useful to start with feline nutrition. Many of these articles
        also contain information about the relationship between diet and
        diabetes/obesity. Feeding the high-quality species-appropriate diet that cats need "magically"
        eliminates many common health problems.

        1. http://home.earthlink.net/~jacm2/id1.html
        2. www.catinfo.org
        3. www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
        4. http://rocquoone.com/diet_and_health.htm
        5. www.advancepetfood.com.au/nutrition
        6. ww.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?siteid=0&gid=74&ref=2066&subref=AN

        // Rosemary
      • Deena
        ... But there is absolutely no reason to feed any cat a prescription diet, which are uniformly of poor nutritional quality. This is doubly true for
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 1, 2005
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          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, savionna@a... wrote:
          But there is absolutely no reason to feed any cat a "prescription"
          diet, which are uniformly of poor nutritional quality. This is
          doubly true for diabetics...

          As usual, I agree with Rosemary. With minimal understanding of
          feline nutritional requirements and an understanding of what needs
          to be tweaked with certain conditions, you can often do better on
          your own. If you have the time and willingness to do this.

          If not, there IS a line of prescription diets that seems to be based
          on science rather than profits: Wysong. I have no financial
          connection and will probably always make my own. While not still
          perfect, IMO, for those most comfortable with a prescription diet,
          it's an option that you should have your vets investigate.

          Dr Wysong's "Scientific & Philosophical basis of Rx Diets" paper
          does an excellent job at explaining nutritional concepts which few
          vets unfortunately don't understand.
          http://www.wysong.net/PDFs/introduction.pdf
          Feeding food that the cat's body is able & designed to utilize is
          the best defense against disease. When cats are fighting other
          illnesses, it's even more important. Many of the supplements
          recommended for heart kitties, I was able to get into Mr Pepe in
          their original form, aka food.

          Check out the "Pancreas Size" chart on pg 14. Rats & Mice fed
          processed foods have pancreas's that are more than twice the size
          (.84 vs .32) as those fed a species appropriate diet. The pancreas
          is one of the masters of our immune system and allows us fight
          disease. Bigger is not better, since this indicates its working too
          hard and is breaking down.

          I had a funny dog experience a few weeks ago, which hammered this
          home. I took my 4.5 yr old dog in for an ultrasound to check her
          reproductive organs. The first thing out of the vets mouth
          was "whoa, what a pancreas!" His assistant walks in and he shouts
          to her, "check out Buddie's pancreas?" I was afraid to ask what's
          wrong with her pancreas - thinking the worse. As dogs age, it
          becomes bigger, mushier and less distinct on u/s. Her's jumped off
          the screen and looked like a puppy's pancreas. I took her off
          kibble at 7 mos and have been feeding her a species appropriate diet
          for the past 4 years. Looks like her pancreas hasn't aged since the
          switch. Hmmm....

          Lisa: It was Dr C who got so excited about Buddie's pancreas. He's
          also one of the few vets in the area who doesn't hassle raw
          feeders. I hope he made the connection.

          Deena
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