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Re: [FH] Butters

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  • Susan
    ... What I ... Saturday morning ... Ruthie, Sorry to hear about Butters. First of all if the vet thought he may have heard a murmur, it may be a low grade
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 3, 2005
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      --- Ruthie <ruthieville@...> wrote:

      What I
      > was not prepared for was to be told that my precious
      > little boy that I have only had eight days has a
      > heart murmur. > We're going back to the vet next
      Saturday morning
      > for x-rays and for the vet to listen again with the
      > congestion from the cold cleared up.
      >
      > I've done some research online and have found little
      > hope.

      Ruthie,

      Sorry to hear about Butters.

      First of all if the vet thought he may have heard a
      murmur, it may be a low grade murmur if it is
      difficult to hear. Some murmurs in very young cats do
      turn out to be innocent. If not, he may be
      asymptomatic in which case, and no once can predict,
      it may or may not progress to heart failure. There are
      human heart meds that do help.

      If a cardiologist is too far, you can seek out a small
      animal internist. Here is the list by state:

      http://acvim.org/wwwfp/Directory/SAIM_Geo.pdf

      BTW my Rudy who I adopted when he was 14 weeks old
      looked like an 8 week old kitten at the time. He was
      diagnosed 3 years ago at the age of 18 months as
      having a 2/5 murmur. He has been happily taking
      atenolol for 3 years chased with cocktail shrinp.

      Susan





      Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19 months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling



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    • Aimee Collins
      Aimee Collins wrote:Hi! Well I know that my guy Gizmo has a 2-3/6 heart murmur. Thay can live with this- the question is if he has
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 3, 2005
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        Aimee Collins <aimeecollins@...> wrote:Hi! Well I know that my guy Gizmo has a 2-3/6 heart murmur. Thay can live with this- the question is if he has HCM. Gizmo was diagnoised 2 weeks ago. I take him to a cardiologistan we have been there 2x already. Gizmo had HCM, and congestive heart failure. He is only 2. But medicince needs to get regulated for him, and hopefully he wii be okay. From what I know you have to catch this early for treatment and thats good that you know. I give Gizmo lasix 2x daily and a heart pill Enapril. We go back to the cardiologist on Tuesday to see of the fluid ha drained from his lungs, if not we have more to deal with to help him. Yeah its hard and sad to think of these innocent little ones with this. There is hope though. The first nite I came home and found out about Gizmo9( was in hospital for 2 days) I was devasted and so sad. The doctor say maybe 2 years. But know that they dont even know. Butters may coome through fine with medication. There
        are people on here that have had hier cat live 6 years longer than expected. this was the first place that made me have any hope. For now it is day by day. Educate yourself and know about this all, cause then you can let the doctor know some of what you know. I heard that vets dont know as much about this. I went in wth a list of questions about different things. The more you know the more you can be aggressive and get on the ball of what he needs. All in all you need to find out if he has HCM or heart disease ad then you move to the next step. But this board is great for hope and support. Its given me alot of knowledge and support. Good luck! et us know how it goes. I am sure I will be on here after my appointment to update on Gizmo!!
        - aimee

        Ruthie <ruthieville@...> wrote:
        My apologies for the length of this post.

        A week ago yesterday I picked up a new kitten from a co-worker's babysitter. I picked the male orange tabby in the group, who happened to be the runt. I have always ended up with special cats, be they runts or even the only surviving member of a litter. Our third cat is special because he adopted us. I took Butters, my beautiful long haired orange tabby to the vet for his first checkup just this morning. We saw the vet that we see for our other five animals. I respect him very much.

        We knew going in that butters had a pretty bad cold and would need antibiotics and eye drops. What I was not prepared for was to be told that my precious little boy that I have only had eight days has a heart murmur. Dr Rambo is not 100% sure that it is a real murmur, but he says he's about 90% sure. This is in part because even though butters is ten and a half weeks old, he is only about as muture as a 7 week old kitten if that, and if he actually is a male (even the vet's not sure) his testicles have not yet descended which is odd for his age.

        We're going back to the vet next Saturday morning for x-rays and for the vet to listen again with the congestion from the cold cleared up.

        I've done some research online and have found little hope. One of the questions I am wondering about is what actually causes death in these cats? my vet said he might live two months, he might live two years. Is it heart failure that ends it all or is it something like a stroke? I was unable to find any information about the treatment of heart murmurs except one case where a thirteen year old cat was diagnosed and they gave half an aspirin twice a week.

        Please help me, I don't know where to go from here. I found out that the nearest board certified cardiologist is several hours away, and as my husband and I are both blind, we have no way to get Butters to one.

        I want to do all I can for this little fluff ball, I've bonded to him already and don't want to lose him.

        Thank you for listening to my rambling.


        Ruthie and the crew.


        Justice: A decision in your favour.

        Visit www.ruthieville.com today for your daily dose of me.


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      • Shannon
        My vet heard a murmur on Daisy when she was a kitten and told me that a lot of times a kitten s heart isn t fully developed causing a murmur sound which will
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 3, 2005
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          My vet heard a murmur on Daisy when she was a kitten and told me that a lot
          of times a kitten's heart isn't fully developed causing a murmur sound which
          will disappear. Of course in her case it did turn out to be HCM but it
          doesn't always. The fact that Butters is ill and underdeveloped probably
          makes it more likely to be a benign heart murmur. You may just want to skip
          the x-ray and go right to the echo unless the vet wants to look at the lungs
          because of the cold.
          Shannon
          Daisy: Maine Coon mix, 4 years old, diagnosed at age 1-1/2, asymptomatic
          HCM, 6.25 mg atenolol daily
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ruthie" <ruthieville@...>
          To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 5:03 PM
          Subject: [FH] Butters


          > My apologies for the length of this post.
          >
          > A week ago yesterday I picked up a new kitten from a co-worker's
          > babysitter. I picked the male orange tabby in the group, who happened to
          > be the runt. I have always ended up with special cats, be they runts or
          > even the only surviving member of a litter. Our third cat is special
          > because he adopted us. I took Butters, my beautiful long haired orange
          > tabby to the vet for his first checkup just this morning. We saw the vet
          > that we see for our other five animals. I respect him very much.
          >
          > We knew going in that butters had a pretty bad cold and would need
          > antibiotics and eye drops. What I was not prepared for was to be told
          > that my precious little boy that I have only had eight days has a heart
          > murmur. Dr Rambo is not 100% sure that it is a real murmur, but he says
          > he's about 90% sure. This is in part because even though butters is ten
          > and a half weeks old, he is only about as muture as a 7 week old kitten if
          > that, and if he actually is a male (even the vet's not sure) his testicles
          > have not yet descended which is odd for hige.
          >
          > We're going back to the vet next Saturday morning for x-rays and for the
          > vet to listen again with the congestion from the cold cleared up.
          >
          > I've done some research online and have found little hope. One of the
          > questions I am wondering about is what actually causes death in these
          > cats? my vet said he might live two months, he might live two years. Is
          > it heart failure that ends it all or is it something like a stroke? I was
          > unable to find any information about the treatment of heart murmurs except
          > one case where a thirteen year old cat was diagnosed and they gave half an
          > aspirin twice a week.
          >
          > Please help me, I don't know where to go from here. I found out that the
          > nearest board certified cardiologist is several hours away, and as my
          > husband and I are both blind, we have no way to get Butters to one.
          >
          > I want to do all I can for this little fluff ball, I've bonded to him
          > already and don't want to lose him.
          >
          > Thank you for listening to my rambling.
          >
          >
          > Ruthie and the crew.
          >
          >
          > Justice: A decision in your favour.
          >
          > Visit www.ruthieville.com today for your daily dose of me.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
          > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
          > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Ruthie
          Well, he thinks because butters has not matured appropriate to his age and is also undersize that these are likely caused by the heart condition. The reason
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 4, 2005
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            Well, he thinks because butters has not matured appropriate to his age and
            is also undersize that these are likely caused by the heart condition. The
            reason he at first wasn't sure was because of the sounds of the congestion
            and the fact that butters was breathing so rapidly.

            Ruthie and the crew.

            Happiness is like a sunbeam, which the least shadow intercepts, while
            adversity is often as the rain of spring.

            Visit
            www.ruthieville.com
            today for your daily dose of me.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Shannon" <
            shannon5@...>

            To: <
            feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
            ; "Ruthie" <
            ruthieville@...>

            Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 10:44 PM
            Subject: Re: [FH] Butters

            > My vet heard a murmur on Daisy when she was a kitten and told me that a
            > lot of times a kitten's heart isn't fully developed causing a murmur sound
            > which will disappear. Of course in her case it did turn out to be HCM but
            > it doesn't always. The fact that Butters is ill and underdeveloped
            > probably makes it more likely to be a benign heart murmur. You may just
            > want to skip the x-ray and go right to the echo unless the vet wants to
            > look at the lungs because of the cold.
            > Shannon
            > Daisy: Maine Coon mix, 4 years old, diagnosed at age 1-1/2, asymptomatic
            > HCM, 6.25 mg atenolol daily
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Ruthie" <
            ruthieville@...>

            > To: <
            feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>

            > Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 5:03 PM
            > Subject: [FH] Butters
            >
            >
            >> My apologies for the length of this post.
            >>
            >> A week ago yesterday I picked up a new kitten from a co-worker's
            >> babysitter. I picked the male orange tabby in the group, who happened to
            >> be the runt. I have always ended up with special cats, be they runts or
            >> even the only surviving member of a litter. Our third cat is special
            >> because he adopted us. I took Butters, my beautiful long haired orange
            >> tabby to the vet for his first checkup just this morning. We saw the vet
            >> that we see for our other five animals. I respect him very much.
            >>
            >> We knew going in that butters had a pretty bad cold and would need
            >> antibiotics and eye drops. What I was not prepared for was to be told
            >> that my precious little boy that I have only had eight days has a heart
            >> murmur. Dr Rambo is not 100% sure that it is a real murmur, but he says
            >> he's about 90% sure. This is in part because even though butters is ten
            >> and a half weeks old, he is only about as muture as a 7 week old kitten
            >> if that, and if he actually is a male (even the vet's not sure) his
            >> testicles have not yet descended which is odd for hige.
            >>
            >> We're going back to the vet next Saturday morning for x-rays and for the
            >> vet to listen again with the congestion from the cold cleared up.
            >>
            >> I've done some research online and have found little hope. One of the
            >> questions I am wondering about is what actually causes death in these
            >> cats? my vet said he might live two months, he might live two years. Is
            >> it heart failure that ends it all or is it something like a stroke? I
            >> was unable to find any information about the treatment of heart murmurs
            >> except one case where a thirteen year old cat was diagnosed and they gave
            >> half an aspirin twice a week.
            >>
            >> Please help me, I don't know where to go from here. I found out that the
            >> nearest board certified cardiologist is several hours away, and as my
            >> husband and I are both blind, we have no way to get Butters to one.
            >>
            >> I want to do all I can for this little fluff ball, I've bonded to him
            >> already and don't want to lose him.
            >>
            >> Thank you for listening to my rambling.
            >>
            >>
            >> Ruthie and the crew.
            >>
            >>
            >> Justice: A decision in your favour.
            >>
            >> Visit
            www.ruthieville.com
            today for your daily dose of me.
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
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          • Susan
            Ruthie, Is it possible Butters was born to a feral mom? Rudy was, and it is what I attribute to his smallness. In fact there was a feral cat on my street, who
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 5, 2005
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              Ruthie,

              Is it possible Butters was born to a feral mom? Rudy
              was, and it is what I attribute to his smallness. In
              fact there was a feral cat on my street, who was small
              and had small kittens, none of which ever got very
              big.

              Is Butters by any chance a scaredy cat?

              Susan

              --- Ruthie <ruthieville@...> wrote:

              > Well, he thinks because butters has not matured
              > appropriate to his age and
              > is also undersize that these are likely caused by
              > the heart condition. The
              > reason he at first wasn't sure was because of the
              > sounds of the congestion
              > and the fact that butters was breathing so rapidly.
              >
              > Ruthie and the crew.
              >
              > Happiness is like a sunbeam, which the least
              > shadow intercepts, while
              > adversity is often as the rain of spring.
              >





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            • Ruthie
              I ve put off writing this email because I just didn t want to think about our visit with the specialist on Friday. When we went in, Dr. Dennis confirmed that
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 25, 2005
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                I've put off writing this email because I just didn't want to think about our visit with the specialist on Friday. When we went in, Dr. Dennis confirmed that Butters had a very loud murmur. He wanted to do an ultrasound and told us that since he wasn't a cardiologist, if he couldn't tell what was wrong by looking at the ultrasound, he would not charge us for it. I thought that was pretty nice of him.

                Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, he was able to easily tell what was wrong with Butters' heart. She has a ventricular septal defect. Dr. Dennis says there is no treatment for it, and it could get better or it could get worse as she grows.

                He told us that if the septum grows with her heart and the hole stays the same size, she would actually get better, but if the septum doesn't grow at the same rate as the heart, the hole would get bigger and she would get worse.

                He told us he guessed she might have around a year to live and that there was no treatment for vsd.

                I am so heartbroken. I trust our regular vet, Dr. Rambo, but I just hoped that maybe he was wrong and we'd go into the specialist and Butters would be fine after all.

                Part of me just doesn't want to be lieve that there's nothing that can be done, but I haven't found anything online either.

                Whatever happens, whether Butters lives three more months like Dr. Rambo thinks or as long as a year, as Dr. Dennis thinks, She will have a special place in our hearts always and we will do all we can to make her life as enjoyable and happy as possible.


                Ruthie and the crew.


                Field tested: Manufacturing doesn't have a test system.

                Visit www.ruthieville.com today for your daily dose of me.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Belinda Sauro
                Trusting your vet is find, but there is nothing wrong with getting a second opinion from a Cardioligist, as your own vet told you he is not a cardioligist so
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 26, 2005
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                  Trusting your vet is find, but there is nothing wrong with getting a
                  second opinion from a Cardioligist, as your own vet told you he is not a
                  cardioligist so seeing one in my opinion would be my next step. Even
                  the best of vets are only human and every human has been wrong about
                  something. I hope his diagnosis is wrong and it is something fixable.

                  --
                  Belinda
                  Happiness is being owned by cats ...

                  Be-Mi-Kitties ...
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                • Ruthie
                  My apologies to the couple of you who will receive multiples of this. Butters, our heart patient kitty had her spay surgery yesterday morning. We were
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                    My apologies to the couple of you who will receive multiples of this.

                    Butters, our heart patient kitty had her spay surgery yesterday morning. We were actually still at the vets' office when she got out of surgery because one of our other animals had an appointment.

                    She wnt through the surgery with no problems and is home, happy and alert. She's even back to her old self...from before she was going in heat all the time.

                    The vet saw us in the waiting room and came out to tell me that her EKG was "upside down and backwards" as he put it, but that everything else about it was normal. He was very impressed that she is doing as well as she is and that her heart does not seem to have gotten any worse.

                    He told us that he thinks the big part of that was our committment to her, and that if he were put in the same circumstance as we had been, he might have given up on her at the beginning and he was glad that we hadn't.

                    So thank you to all of you who thought about us and sent us positive thoughts and good luck wishes...I think they helped.


                    Ruthie and the Pumpkin Patch.

                    I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow is not looking good either.

                    Visit www.ruthieville.com today for your daily dose of me.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Sue at MAGDRL
                    Ruthie, Great news!!! Sue ... From: Ruthie To: Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:08 PM Subject: [FH]
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 13, 2006
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                      Ruthie,

                      Great news!!!


                      Sue


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Ruthie" <ruthieville@...>
                      To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
                      Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:08 PM
                      Subject: [FH] Butters


                      > My apologies to the couple of you who will receive multiples of this.
                      >
                      > Butters, our heart patient kitty had her spay surgery yesterday morning.
                      We were actually still at the vets' office when she got out of surgery
                      because one of our other animals had an appointment.
                      >
                      > She wnt through the surgery with no problems and is home, happy and alert.
                      She's even back to her old self...from before she was going in heat all the
                      time.
                      >
                      > The vet saw us in the waiting room and came out to tell me that her EKG
                      was "upside down and backwards" as he put it, but that everything else about
                      it was normal. He was very impressed that she is doing as well as she is
                      and that her heart does not seem to have gotten any worse.
                      >
                      > He told us that he thinks the big part of that was our committment to her,
                      and that if he were put in the same circumstance as we had been, he might
                      have given up on her at the beginning and he was glad that we hadn't.
                      >
                      > So thank you to all of you who thought about us and sent us positive
                      thoughts and good luck wishes...I think they helped.
                      >
                      >
                      > Ruthie and the Pumpkin Patch.
                      >
                      > I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow is
                      not looking good either.
                      >
                      > Visit www.ruthieville.com today for your daily dose of me.
                      >
                      >
                    • Leah Ferron
                      Ruthie, That is awesome! Butters is going to feel so much better now that she won t be in constant heat! I love a vet that admits he was wrong too! Well, not
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 13, 2006
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                        Ruthie,

                        That is awesome! Butters is going to feel so much better now that she won't be in constant heat! I love a vet that admits he was wrong too! Well, not necessarily wrong but you know what I mean. No one is above learning the power of love and devotion against this awful disease.

                        Leah and her cats and Angel Alec




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                      • Ruthie
                        That s for sure...on both counts. This vet has always been honest with us and we have a mutual respect for one another. How many vets will let a patient s
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 13, 2006
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                          That's for sure...on both counts. This vet has always been honest with us and we have a mutual respect for one another. How many vets will let a patient's person suggest meds and when he doesn't know anything, make calls all over the country to find out...and trust their judgment the way he does mine. Butters and I are very lucky to have Dr. Rambo. He's one awesome vet.


                          Ruthie and the Pumpkin Patch.

                          Even the blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.

                          Visit www.ruthieville.com today for your daily dose of me.


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Leah Ferron
                          To: Ruthie ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:01 AM
                          Subject: Re: [FH] Butters


                          Ruthie,

                          That is awesome! Butters is going to feel so much better now that she won't be in constant heat! I love a vet that admits he was wrong too! Well, not necessarily wrong but you know what I mean. No one is above learning the power of love and devotion against this awful disease.

                          Leah and her cats and Angel Alec




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