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Re: [FH] Question on nutrition

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  • cayvb
    Question on nattokinase? What dosage is used? Do you use exclusively or in addition to Lasix, Spiro, or dandelion root, etc ? Thanks, Cathy, McGovern(HCM),
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 2, 2005
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      Question on nattokinase? What dosage is used?
      Do you use exclusively or in addition to Lasix, Spiro, or dandelion
      root, etc ?
      Thanks, Cathy, McGovern(HCM), Number One

      I heard that the NattoVita is the best but I can't find a source
      inside the US for under $100 per bottle or where you don't need a
      doctor's note to get it.

      Also, what is a good place to purchase Natto online?

      I get mine through the Vitamin Shoppe -- www.vitaminshoppe.com,
      although I suppose you could get it anywhere.
    • Susan Burns
      hi cathy....my roger rags was diagnosed with severe hcm and refractory chf in january of 2005, and he has been on natto ever since....i, too, have heard that
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 3, 2005
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        hi cathy....my roger rags was diagnosed with severe
        hcm and refractory chf in january of 2005, and he has
        been on natto ever since....i, too, have heard that
        "nattovita" is the brand endorsed by the individual
        who discovered nattokinase's many benefits, but its
        availability and expense can be daunting...."allergy
        research", which supplies medical professionals, also
        has a non-professionals' product line called
        "nutricology" (www.nutricology.com), and they make a
        very cat-friendly size gel-cap which contains 36mgs of
        natto (vitamin k removed....ostensibly important,
        since vit k is a coagulant and occurs naturally in
        high amounts in soy.....rosemary???).....my
        understanding is that natto remains active in the
        human body for 6-12 hours per dose, so i've been
        giving roger his 36mgs every 8 hours, thinking that
        might be a reasonable means of keeping some in his
        system around the clock.....he is at very high risk
        for throwing a clot, given the severity of his heart
        condition (albeit, symptom free for now).....his
        latest blood tests, which included clotting times
        (pro-thrombin time, partial thromboplastic ptt,
        platelet count and fibrinogen) all came back with
        stellar results, and i would like to think that the
        natto is in some way helping in this arena.....natto
        IS pricey, but i have found (and compared) a great
        resource for it at "advantage nutrition"
        (www.advnut.com).....the cost for 300 gel-caps of the
        "nutricology" brand (36 mgs) is $91.25 incl. shipping,
        and they provide other options if your kitty might do
        better with capsules....roger also gets allopathic
        meds (spiro 6.25mgs bid, lasix 10mgs bid, with a third
        dose at 15mgs, benazepril 6.25mgs qd and atenolol 6.25
        mgs bid (atenolol, according to roger's cardiologist,
        may exacerbate existing asthma, but does not cause it,
        and works extremely well with potassium
        supplementation if warranted and monitored)....he also
        gets a "boatload" (to coin lisa's phrase) of
        supplements, which incude dmg
        (www.usanimalnutritionals.com) and a
        specific-to-his-blood-test-results compounded
        assortment of vitamins, glandulars and
        homeopathics....our fabulous nutritional vet who has
        been steering the "cat ship" at our home for more than
        11 years now, dr. brian wessels, also has him on an
        amino acid supplement specifically formulated to the
        exact requirements of the feline body "(rainbow brand"
        full spectrum nutritional supplement for
        cats...vitamins, minerals, intact proteins, amino
        acids, fish-based omega 6 and 3 fatty
        acids...845.473.1900 for a distributor).....all things
        considered, roger rags is doing very, very well at the
        moment.....eating a high quality, high protein diet,
        napping whenever the mood strikes him (often), jumping
        3-4 feet up and out of the window to sun himself on
        the roof, and juggling his catnip toy on all fours
        whilst lounging on his gorgeously patterned black and
        white back .....we are blessed, susan

        > Question on nattokinase? What dosage is used?
        > Do you use exclusively or in addition to Lasix,
        > Spiro, or dandelion
        > root, etc ?
        > Thanks, Cathy, McGovern(HCM), Number One









        "if you live to be a hundred, i want to live to be a hundred minus one day, so that i never have to live without you"....winnie the pooh



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      • cayvb
        ... roger rags is doing very, very well at the moment ... one day, so that i never have to live without you ....winnie the pooh Hi Susan, We certainly are
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 4, 2005
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          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan Burns <mettezla@y...> wrote:
          > hi cathy....my roger rags was diagnosed with severe
          > hcm and refractory chf in january of 2005, and he has
          roger rags is doing very, very well at the moment
          ....and juggling his catnip toy on all fours
          > whilst lounging on his gorgeously patterned black and
          > white back .....we are blessed, susan

          > "if you live to be a hundred, i want to live to be a hundred minus
          one day, so that i never have to live without you"....winnie the pooh

          Hi Susan,
          We certainly are blessed to have these loving animals that trust us
          with their lives. It's good to hear roger rags is doing so well.
          Thanks for the info. And I love the winnie the pooh quote.
          Cathy, McGovern(HCM), Number One
        • savionna@aol.com
          Hi Sue, In a message dated 7/1/05 11:58:11 PM, rockii@optonline.net writes: You mean tuna-flavored
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 5, 2005
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            Hi Sue,

            In a message dated 7/1/05 11:58:11 PM, rockii@... writes:

            << Pepper has decided that she only wants to eat tuna. >>

            You mean tuna-flavored cat food, right? Not the canned tuna meant for human
            consumption.

            << If she gets anything else, it's a real problem - she'd rather not eat at
            all. >>

            This is one of the problems with fish-flavored cat food, esp tuna. It is so
            strongly flavored that cats, who have a limited sense of taste (about 500 taste
            buds compared with the human's 9000), tend to prefer it over other tastes.
            This is one of the reasons why it's recommended to reserve tuna as a bribe food
            and to feed cats only limited fish overall.

            << I know that fish is not as complete of a protein source as land animals. >>

            It isn't? Do you have more information on this? The distribution of amino
            acids is actually quite close for human-consumption tuna and, say, chicken.

            << What can I add to her diet to compensate? >>

            I'm not sure what you want to compensate for.

            The main issues with human-consumption tuna (not tuna-flavored cat food) are:
            1) that it is not a complete food for cats (meaning that it does not contain
            all the nutrients a cat needs in the appropriate balance); 2) it is higher in
            phosphorus than calcium (by a ratio of 1 cal : 15 phos, whereas the proper
            ratio is 1.2-1.4 cal : 1 phos) and therefore unbalanced for cats (which is true
            of all animal flesh); 3) it is deficient in taurine; 4) it is high in sodium;
            5) it is potentially allergenic (b/c of its high histamine content); 6) it is a
            contributing factor to struvite crystals in the urine; 7) it is a
            contributing factor to a type of fat disorder called steatitis; 8) it is potentially
            contaminated with ocean pollutants (depending on where it was caught); and 9) the
            taste is addictive.

            The main issues with tuna-flavored cat food are: 1) it is generally higher in
            phosphorus than meat-flavored cat foods (eg Wellness chicken contains 180
            mg/100 kcal, Solid Gold contains 265 mg/100 kcal) but is theoretically balanced
            with calcium; 2) it may be relatively higher in sodium (depending on
            brand/flavor) than meat-based cat foods; and 5, 6, 8, 9 as above.

            << She's already getting 120mg CoQ10, 500mg L-carnitine, Omega oils, and
            Missing Link. >>

            Missing Link contains flax seed, blackstrap molasses, rice bran, primary
            dried yeast, freeze dried liver, sunflower seed, dehydrated alfalfa, dried carrot,
            freeze dried bone, dried fish meal, freeze dried oyster, sprouted green
            barley, dried kelp, lecithin, garlic, and yucca schidigera extract. This product is
            not a species-appropriate source of nutrients for cats and some of the
            ingredients...particularly yeast, alfalfa, and kelp...are potentially problematic.

            If you want to provide a balanced multisupplement, one product is NuCat (see
            www.vetriscience.com), which is supposedly vet exclusive but is sold on the
            net. The identical product is sold OTC as Tabby Tabs under the US Animal
            Nutritionals label by the same parent company (see www.shopusanimal.com).

            << She's eating Solid Gold's tuna cat food
            http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=10&code=240 >>

            Aside from the general tuna issues, the primary issue with this product is
            its carbohydrate content, at 21% of calories from carbohydrate (from tapioca).
            If you want to change the diet, it may be helpful to consider adding a tiny amt
            (like 1/4 tsp or less) of a meat + fish/tuna-flavored food to this product
            until acceptance, then gradually increase the amt (each time until
            acceptance)...then begin again by adding a high-quality meat-based food. // Rosemary
          • Sue B
            Rosemary, Thank you - as always - for all your advice! I will try adding some turkey in with her Solid Gold tuna. Sue ... From: To:
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 5, 2005
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              Rosemary,

              Thank you - as always - for all your advice! I will try adding some turkey
              in with her Solid Gold tuna.


              Sue

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <Savionna@...>
              To: <rockii@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 9:26 AM
              Subject: Re: [FH] Question on nutrition


              > Hi Sue,
              >
              > In a message dated 7/1/05 11:58:11 PM, rockii@... writes:
              >
              > << Pepper has decided that she only wants to eat tuna. >>
              >
              > You mean tuna-flavored cat food, right? Not the canned tuna meant for
              human
              > consumption.
              >
              > << If she gets anything else, it's a real problem - she'd rather not eat
              at
              > all. >>
              >
              > This is one of the problems with fish-flavored cat food, esp tuna. It is
              so
              > strongly flavored that cats, who have a limited sense of taste (about 500
              taste
              > buds compared with the human's 9000), tend to prefer it over other tastes.
              > This is one of the reasons why it's recommended to reserve tuna as a bribe
              food
              > and to feed cats only limited fish overall.
              >
              > << I know that fish is not as complete of a protein source as land
              animals. >>
              >
              > It isn't? Do you have more information on this? The distribution of amino
              > acids is actually quite close for human-consumption tuna and, say,
              chicken.
              >
              > << What can I add to her diet to compensate? >>
              >
              > I'm not sure what you want to compensate for.
              >
              > The main issues with human-consumption tuna (not tuna-flavored cat food)
              are:
              > 1) that it is not a complete food for cats (meaning that it does not
              contain
              > all the nutrients a cat needs in the appropriate balance); 2) it is higher
              in
              > phosphorus than calcium (by a ratio of 1 cal : 15 phos, whereas the proper
              > ratio is 1.2-1.4 cal : 1 phos) and therefore unbalanced for cats (which is
              true
              > of all animal flesh); 3) it is deficient in taurine; 4) it is high in
              sodium;
              > 5) it is potentially allergenic (b/c of its high histamine content); 6) it
              is a
              > contributing factor to struvite crystals in the urine; 7) it is a
              > contributing factor to a type of fat disorder called steatitis; 8) it is
              potentially
              > contaminated with ocean pollutants (depending on where it was caught); and
              9) the
              > taste is addictive.
              >
              > The main issues with tuna-flavored cat food are: 1) it is generally higher
              in
              > phosphorus than meat-flavored cat foods (eg Wellness chicken contains 180
              > mg/100 kcal, Solid Gold contains 265 mg/100 kcal) but is theoretically
              balanced
              > with calcium; 2) it may be relatively higher in sodium (depending on
              > brand/flavor) than meat-based cat foods; and 5, 6, 8, 9 as above.
              >
              > << She's already getting 120mg CoQ10, 500mg L-carnitine, Omega oils, and
              > Missing Link. >>
              >
              > Missing Link contains flax seed, blackstrap molasses, rice bran, primary
              > dried yeast, freeze dried liver, sunflower seed, dehydrated alfalfa, dried
              carrot,
              > freeze dried bone, dried fish meal, freeze dried oyster, sprouted green
              > barley, dried kelp, lecithin, garlic, and yucca schidigera extract. This
              product is
              > not a species-appropriate source of nutrients for cats and some of the
              > ingredients...particularly yeast, alfalfa, and kelp...are potentially
              problematic.
              >
              > If you want to provide a balanced multisupplement, one product is NuCat
              (see
              > www.vetriscience.com), which is supposedly vet exclusive but is sold on
              the
              > net. The identical product is sold OTC as Tabby Tabs under the US Animal
              > Nutritionals label by the same parent company (see www.shopusanimal.com).
              >
              > << She's eating Solid Gold's tuna cat food
              > http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=10&code=240 >>
              >
              > Aside from the general tuna issues, the primary issue with this product is
              > its carbohydrate content, at 21% of calories from carbohydrate (from
              tapioca).
              > If you want to change the diet, it may be helpful to consider adding a
              tiny amt
              > (like 1/4 tsp or less) of a meat + fish/tuna-flavored food to this product
              > until acceptance, then gradually increase the amt (each time until
              > acceptance)...then begin again by adding a high-quality meat-based food.
              // Rosemary
              >
            • savionna@aol.com
              Hi Sue, In a message dated 7/5/05 2:45:27 PM, rockii@optonline.net writes: You re welcome.
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 6, 2005
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                Hi Sue,

                In a message dated 7/5/05 2:45:27 PM, rockii@... writes:

                << Thank you >>

                You're welcome.

                << I will try adding some turkey

                in with her Solid Gold tuna. >>

                That's a good place to start...just a tiny dab of turkey (either a shred of
                meat or canned cat food) under the tuna. Not enough to trigger her inhibition
                against eating something "strange"...but enough to start getting her accustomed
                to a "new" smell. If she goes for the dab, then next time add 2 dabs. If she
                doesn't, try 1/2 a dab. // Rosemary
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