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Re: [FH] Question on nutrition

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  • Sue B
    Here s what s in Missing Link. I m not sure that it really contributes much - Ingredients: Flax Seed, Blackstrap Molasses, Rice Bran, Primary Dried Yeast,
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 2 11:26 AM
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      Here's what's in Missing Link. I'm not sure that it really contributes much -
      Ingredients:
      Flax Seed, Blackstrap Molasses, Rice Bran, Primary Dried Yeast, Freeze Dried Liver, Sunflower Seed, Dehydrated Alfalfa, Dried Carrot, Freeze Dried Bone, Dried Fish Meal, Freeze Dried Oyster, Sprouted Green Barley, Dried Kelp, Lecithin, Garlic, and Yucca Schidigera Extract.

      Forget sneaking anything into her food that she doesn't want. This girl knows! You can't put anything past her.

      Vitamin Shoppe has a couple stores in the area so I could just go there & pick up some. I heard that the NattoVita is the best but I can't find a source inside the US for under $100 per bottle or where you don't need a doctor's note to get it.

      I know what you mean about the cost. This is an expensive disease.


      Sue



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Lclarizia@...
      To: rockii@... ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 1:12 PM
      Subject: Re: [FH] Question on nutrition


      In a message dated 7/1/2005 11:58:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rockii@... writes:



      Pepper has decided that she only wants to eat tuna. If she gets anything else, it's a real problem - she'd rather not eat at all.



      Well, what can you do? If she only wants tuna, she only wants tuna :)


      I know that fish is not as complete of a protein source as land animals. What can I add to her diet to compensate? She's already getting 120mg CoQ10, 500mg L-carnitine, Omega oils, and Missing Link.



      Rosemary will know more than I about that -- what's in Missing Link?


      She's eating Solid Gold's tuna cat food
      http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=10&code=240



      Is there any chance you could try sneaking in other food mixed in with the tuna? Or put some off to the side while she's eating her favorite to see if she has any interest in it?


      Also, what is a good place to purchase Natto online?


      I get mine through the Vitamin Shoppe -- www.vitaminshoppe.com, although I suppose you could get it anywhere. I like them because every purchase counts towards a gift certificate at the end of the year -- and when you spend money like I do there, every bit helps.

      Lisa

      "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."

      - Anatole France


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • cayvb
      Question on nattokinase? What dosage is used? Do you use exclusively or in addition to Lasix, Spiro, or dandelion root, etc ? Thanks, Cathy, McGovern(HCM),
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 2 3:09 PM
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        Question on nattokinase? What dosage is used?
        Do you use exclusively or in addition to Lasix, Spiro, or dandelion
        root, etc ?
        Thanks, Cathy, McGovern(HCM), Number One

        I heard that the NattoVita is the best but I can't find a source
        inside the US for under $100 per bottle or where you don't need a
        doctor's note to get it.

        Also, what is a good place to purchase Natto online?

        I get mine through the Vitamin Shoppe -- www.vitaminshoppe.com,
        although I suppose you could get it anywhere.
      • Susan Burns
        hi cathy....my roger rags was diagnosed with severe hcm and refractory chf in january of 2005, and he has been on natto ever since....i, too, have heard that
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 3 6:14 PM
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          hi cathy....my roger rags was diagnosed with severe
          hcm and refractory chf in january of 2005, and he has
          been on natto ever since....i, too, have heard that
          "nattovita" is the brand endorsed by the individual
          who discovered nattokinase's many benefits, but its
          availability and expense can be daunting...."allergy
          research", which supplies medical professionals, also
          has a non-professionals' product line called
          "nutricology" (www.nutricology.com), and they make a
          very cat-friendly size gel-cap which contains 36mgs of
          natto (vitamin k removed....ostensibly important,
          since vit k is a coagulant and occurs naturally in
          high amounts in soy.....rosemary???).....my
          understanding is that natto remains active in the
          human body for 6-12 hours per dose, so i've been
          giving roger his 36mgs every 8 hours, thinking that
          might be a reasonable means of keeping some in his
          system around the clock.....he is at very high risk
          for throwing a clot, given the severity of his heart
          condition (albeit, symptom free for now).....his
          latest blood tests, which included clotting times
          (pro-thrombin time, partial thromboplastic ptt,
          platelet count and fibrinogen) all came back with
          stellar results, and i would like to think that the
          natto is in some way helping in this arena.....natto
          IS pricey, but i have found (and compared) a great
          resource for it at "advantage nutrition"
          (www.advnut.com).....the cost for 300 gel-caps of the
          "nutricology" brand (36 mgs) is $91.25 incl. shipping,
          and they provide other options if your kitty might do
          better with capsules....roger also gets allopathic
          meds (spiro 6.25mgs bid, lasix 10mgs bid, with a third
          dose at 15mgs, benazepril 6.25mgs qd and atenolol 6.25
          mgs bid (atenolol, according to roger's cardiologist,
          may exacerbate existing asthma, but does not cause it,
          and works extremely well with potassium
          supplementation if warranted and monitored)....he also
          gets a "boatload" (to coin lisa's phrase) of
          supplements, which incude dmg
          (www.usanimalnutritionals.com) and a
          specific-to-his-blood-test-results compounded
          assortment of vitamins, glandulars and
          homeopathics....our fabulous nutritional vet who has
          been steering the "cat ship" at our home for more than
          11 years now, dr. brian wessels, also has him on an
          amino acid supplement specifically formulated to the
          exact requirements of the feline body "(rainbow brand"
          full spectrum nutritional supplement for
          cats...vitamins, minerals, intact proteins, amino
          acids, fish-based omega 6 and 3 fatty
          acids...845.473.1900 for a distributor).....all things
          considered, roger rags is doing very, very well at the
          moment.....eating a high quality, high protein diet,
          napping whenever the mood strikes him (often), jumping
          3-4 feet up and out of the window to sun himself on
          the roof, and juggling his catnip toy on all fours
          whilst lounging on his gorgeously patterned black and
          white back .....we are blessed, susan

          > Question on nattokinase? What dosage is used?
          > Do you use exclusively or in addition to Lasix,
          > Spiro, or dandelion
          > root, etc ?
          > Thanks, Cathy, McGovern(HCM), Number One









          "if you live to be a hundred, i want to live to be a hundred minus one day, so that i never have to live without you"....winnie the pooh



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        • cayvb
          ... roger rags is doing very, very well at the moment ... one day, so that i never have to live without you ....winnie the pooh Hi Susan, We certainly are
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 4 5:22 PM
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            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan Burns <mettezla@y...> wrote:
            > hi cathy....my roger rags was diagnosed with severe
            > hcm and refractory chf in january of 2005, and he has
            roger rags is doing very, very well at the moment
            ....and juggling his catnip toy on all fours
            > whilst lounging on his gorgeously patterned black and
            > white back .....we are blessed, susan

            > "if you live to be a hundred, i want to live to be a hundred minus
            one day, so that i never have to live without you"....winnie the pooh

            Hi Susan,
            We certainly are blessed to have these loving animals that trust us
            with their lives. It's good to hear roger rags is doing so well.
            Thanks for the info. And I love the winnie the pooh quote.
            Cathy, McGovern(HCM), Number One
          • savionna@aol.com
            Hi Sue, In a message dated 7/1/05 11:58:11 PM, rockii@optonline.net writes: You mean tuna-flavored
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 5 6:26 AM
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              Hi Sue,

              In a message dated 7/1/05 11:58:11 PM, rockii@... writes:

              << Pepper has decided that she only wants to eat tuna. >>

              You mean tuna-flavored cat food, right? Not the canned tuna meant for human
              consumption.

              << If she gets anything else, it's a real problem - she'd rather not eat at
              all. >>

              This is one of the problems with fish-flavored cat food, esp tuna. It is so
              strongly flavored that cats, who have a limited sense of taste (about 500 taste
              buds compared with the human's 9000), tend to prefer it over other tastes.
              This is one of the reasons why it's recommended to reserve tuna as a bribe food
              and to feed cats only limited fish overall.

              << I know that fish is not as complete of a protein source as land animals. >>

              It isn't? Do you have more information on this? The distribution of amino
              acids is actually quite close for human-consumption tuna and, say, chicken.

              << What can I add to her diet to compensate? >>

              I'm not sure what you want to compensate for.

              The main issues with human-consumption tuna (not tuna-flavored cat food) are:
              1) that it is not a complete food for cats (meaning that it does not contain
              all the nutrients a cat needs in the appropriate balance); 2) it is higher in
              phosphorus than calcium (by a ratio of 1 cal : 15 phos, whereas the proper
              ratio is 1.2-1.4 cal : 1 phos) and therefore unbalanced for cats (which is true
              of all animal flesh); 3) it is deficient in taurine; 4) it is high in sodium;
              5) it is potentially allergenic (b/c of its high histamine content); 6) it is a
              contributing factor to struvite crystals in the urine; 7) it is a
              contributing factor to a type of fat disorder called steatitis; 8) it is potentially
              contaminated with ocean pollutants (depending on where it was caught); and 9) the
              taste is addictive.

              The main issues with tuna-flavored cat food are: 1) it is generally higher in
              phosphorus than meat-flavored cat foods (eg Wellness chicken contains 180
              mg/100 kcal, Solid Gold contains 265 mg/100 kcal) but is theoretically balanced
              with calcium; 2) it may be relatively higher in sodium (depending on
              brand/flavor) than meat-based cat foods; and 5, 6, 8, 9 as above.

              << She's already getting 120mg CoQ10, 500mg L-carnitine, Omega oils, and
              Missing Link. >>

              Missing Link contains flax seed, blackstrap molasses, rice bran, primary
              dried yeast, freeze dried liver, sunflower seed, dehydrated alfalfa, dried carrot,
              freeze dried bone, dried fish meal, freeze dried oyster, sprouted green
              barley, dried kelp, lecithin, garlic, and yucca schidigera extract. This product is
              not a species-appropriate source of nutrients for cats and some of the
              ingredients...particularly yeast, alfalfa, and kelp...are potentially problematic.

              If you want to provide a balanced multisupplement, one product is NuCat (see
              www.vetriscience.com), which is supposedly vet exclusive but is sold on the
              net. The identical product is sold OTC as Tabby Tabs under the US Animal
              Nutritionals label by the same parent company (see www.shopusanimal.com).

              << She's eating Solid Gold's tuna cat food
              http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=10&code=240 >>

              Aside from the general tuna issues, the primary issue with this product is
              its carbohydrate content, at 21% of calories from carbohydrate (from tapioca).
              If you want to change the diet, it may be helpful to consider adding a tiny amt
              (like 1/4 tsp or less) of a meat + fish/tuna-flavored food to this product
              until acceptance, then gradually increase the amt (each time until
              acceptance)...then begin again by adding a high-quality meat-based food. // Rosemary
            • Sue B
              Rosemary, Thank you - as always - for all your advice! I will try adding some turkey in with her Solid Gold tuna. Sue ... From: To:
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 5 10:43 AM
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                Rosemary,

                Thank you - as always - for all your advice! I will try adding some turkey
                in with her Solid Gold tuna.


                Sue

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <Savionna@...>
                To: <rockii@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 9:26 AM
                Subject: Re: [FH] Question on nutrition


                > Hi Sue,
                >
                > In a message dated 7/1/05 11:58:11 PM, rockii@... writes:
                >
                > << Pepper has decided that she only wants to eat tuna. >>
                >
                > You mean tuna-flavored cat food, right? Not the canned tuna meant for
                human
                > consumption.
                >
                > << If she gets anything else, it's a real problem - she'd rather not eat
                at
                > all. >>
                >
                > This is one of the problems with fish-flavored cat food, esp tuna. It is
                so
                > strongly flavored that cats, who have a limited sense of taste (about 500
                taste
                > buds compared with the human's 9000), tend to prefer it over other tastes.
                > This is one of the reasons why it's recommended to reserve tuna as a bribe
                food
                > and to feed cats only limited fish overall.
                >
                > << I know that fish is not as complete of a protein source as land
                animals. >>
                >
                > It isn't? Do you have more information on this? The distribution of amino
                > acids is actually quite close for human-consumption tuna and, say,
                chicken.
                >
                > << What can I add to her diet to compensate? >>
                >
                > I'm not sure what you want to compensate for.
                >
                > The main issues with human-consumption tuna (not tuna-flavored cat food)
                are:
                > 1) that it is not a complete food for cats (meaning that it does not
                contain
                > all the nutrients a cat needs in the appropriate balance); 2) it is higher
                in
                > phosphorus than calcium (by a ratio of 1 cal : 15 phos, whereas the proper
                > ratio is 1.2-1.4 cal : 1 phos) and therefore unbalanced for cats (which is
                true
                > of all animal flesh); 3) it is deficient in taurine; 4) it is high in
                sodium;
                > 5) it is potentially allergenic (b/c of its high histamine content); 6) it
                is a
                > contributing factor to struvite crystals in the urine; 7) it is a
                > contributing factor to a type of fat disorder called steatitis; 8) it is
                potentially
                > contaminated with ocean pollutants (depending on where it was caught); and
                9) the
                > taste is addictive.
                >
                > The main issues with tuna-flavored cat food are: 1) it is generally higher
                in
                > phosphorus than meat-flavored cat foods (eg Wellness chicken contains 180
                > mg/100 kcal, Solid Gold contains 265 mg/100 kcal) but is theoretically
                balanced
                > with calcium; 2) it may be relatively higher in sodium (depending on
                > brand/flavor) than meat-based cat foods; and 5, 6, 8, 9 as above.
                >
                > << She's already getting 120mg CoQ10, 500mg L-carnitine, Omega oils, and
                > Missing Link. >>
                >
                > Missing Link contains flax seed, blackstrap molasses, rice bran, primary
                > dried yeast, freeze dried liver, sunflower seed, dehydrated alfalfa, dried
                carrot,
                > freeze dried bone, dried fish meal, freeze dried oyster, sprouted green
                > barley, dried kelp, lecithin, garlic, and yucca schidigera extract. This
                product is
                > not a species-appropriate source of nutrients for cats and some of the
                > ingredients...particularly yeast, alfalfa, and kelp...are potentially
                problematic.
                >
                > If you want to provide a balanced multisupplement, one product is NuCat
                (see
                > www.vetriscience.com), which is supposedly vet exclusive but is sold on
                the
                > net. The identical product is sold OTC as Tabby Tabs under the US Animal
                > Nutritionals label by the same parent company (see www.shopusanimal.com).
                >
                > << She's eating Solid Gold's tuna cat food
                > http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=10&code=240 >>
                >
                > Aside from the general tuna issues, the primary issue with this product is
                > its carbohydrate content, at 21% of calories from carbohydrate (from
                tapioca).
                > If you want to change the diet, it may be helpful to consider adding a
                tiny amt
                > (like 1/4 tsp or less) of a meat + fish/tuna-flavored food to this product
                > until acceptance, then gradually increase the amt (each time until
                > acceptance)...then begin again by adding a high-quality meat-based food.
                // Rosemary
                >
              • savionna@aol.com
                Hi Sue, In a message dated 7/5/05 2:45:27 PM, rockii@optonline.net writes: You re welcome.
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 6 5:00 AM
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                  Hi Sue,

                  In a message dated 7/5/05 2:45:27 PM, rockii@... writes:

                  << Thank you >>

                  You're welcome.

                  << I will try adding some turkey

                  in with her Solid Gold tuna. >>

                  That's a good place to start...just a tiny dab of turkey (either a shred of
                  meat or canned cat food) under the tuna. Not enough to trigger her inhibition
                  against eating something "strange"...but enough to start getting her accustomed
                  to a "new" smell. If she goes for the dab, then next time add 2 dabs. If she
                  doesn't, try 1/2 a dab. // Rosemary
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