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Re: [FH] Question on nutrition

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  • ladycherise@aol.com
    make sure she is getting enough taurine. It is essential that cats get taurine in their diet so their bodies function properly. [Non-text portions of this
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 1, 2005
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      make sure she is getting enough taurine. It is essential that cats get
      taurine in their diet so their bodies function properly.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • lclarizia@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/1/2005 11:58:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Well, what can you do? If she only wants tuna, she only wants tuna :) ... Rosemary will
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 2, 2005
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        In a message dated 7/1/2005 11:58:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        rockii@... writes:


        > Pepper has decided that she only wants to eat tuna. If she gets anything
        > else, it's a real problem - she'd rather not eat at all.
        >

        Well, what can you do? If she only wants tuna, she only wants tuna :)

        > I know that fish is not as complete of a protein source as land animals.
        > What can I add to her diet to compensate? She's already getting 120mg CoQ10,
        > 500mg L-carnitine, Omega oils, and Missing Link.
        >

        Rosemary will know more than I about that -- what's in Missing Link?

        > She's eating Solid Gold's tuna cat food
        > http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=10&code=240
        >

        Is there any chance you could try sneaking in other food mixed in with the
        tuna? Or put some off to the side while she's eating her favorite to see if she
        has any interest in it?

        > Also, what is a good place to purchase Natto online?
        >
        I get mine through the Vitamin Shoppe -- www.vitaminshoppe.com, although I
        suppose you could get it anywhere. I like them because every purchase counts
        towards a gift certificate at the end of the year -- and when you spend money
        like I do there, every bit helps.

        Lisa

        "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."

        - Anatole France


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sue B
        Here s what s in Missing Link. I m not sure that it really contributes much - Ingredients: Flax Seed, Blackstrap Molasses, Rice Bran, Primary Dried Yeast,
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 2, 2005
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          Here's what's in Missing Link. I'm not sure that it really contributes much -
          Ingredients:
          Flax Seed, Blackstrap Molasses, Rice Bran, Primary Dried Yeast, Freeze Dried Liver, Sunflower Seed, Dehydrated Alfalfa, Dried Carrot, Freeze Dried Bone, Dried Fish Meal, Freeze Dried Oyster, Sprouted Green Barley, Dried Kelp, Lecithin, Garlic, and Yucca Schidigera Extract.

          Forget sneaking anything into her food that she doesn't want. This girl knows! You can't put anything past her.

          Vitamin Shoppe has a couple stores in the area so I could just go there & pick up some. I heard that the NattoVita is the best but I can't find a source inside the US for under $100 per bottle or where you don't need a doctor's note to get it.

          I know what you mean about the cost. This is an expensive disease.


          Sue



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Lclarizia@...
          To: rockii@... ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 1:12 PM
          Subject: Re: [FH] Question on nutrition


          In a message dated 7/1/2005 11:58:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rockii@... writes:



          Pepper has decided that she only wants to eat tuna. If she gets anything else, it's a real problem - she'd rather not eat at all.



          Well, what can you do? If she only wants tuna, she only wants tuna :)


          I know that fish is not as complete of a protein source as land animals. What can I add to her diet to compensate? She's already getting 120mg CoQ10, 500mg L-carnitine, Omega oils, and Missing Link.



          Rosemary will know more than I about that -- what's in Missing Link?


          She's eating Solid Gold's tuna cat food
          http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=10&code=240



          Is there any chance you could try sneaking in other food mixed in with the tuna? Or put some off to the side while she's eating her favorite to see if she has any interest in it?


          Also, what is a good place to purchase Natto online?


          I get mine through the Vitamin Shoppe -- www.vitaminshoppe.com, although I suppose you could get it anywhere. I like them because every purchase counts towards a gift certificate at the end of the year -- and when you spend money like I do there, every bit helps.

          Lisa

          "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."

          - Anatole France


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • cayvb
          Question on nattokinase? What dosage is used? Do you use exclusively or in addition to Lasix, Spiro, or dandelion root, etc ? Thanks, Cathy, McGovern(HCM),
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 2, 2005
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            Question on nattokinase? What dosage is used?
            Do you use exclusively or in addition to Lasix, Spiro, or dandelion
            root, etc ?
            Thanks, Cathy, McGovern(HCM), Number One

            I heard that the NattoVita is the best but I can't find a source
            inside the US for under $100 per bottle or where you don't need a
            doctor's note to get it.

            Also, what is a good place to purchase Natto online?

            I get mine through the Vitamin Shoppe -- www.vitaminshoppe.com,
            although I suppose you could get it anywhere.
          • Susan Burns
            hi cathy....my roger rags was diagnosed with severe hcm and refractory chf in january of 2005, and he has been on natto ever since....i, too, have heard that
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 3, 2005
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              hi cathy....my roger rags was diagnosed with severe
              hcm and refractory chf in january of 2005, and he has
              been on natto ever since....i, too, have heard that
              "nattovita" is the brand endorsed by the individual
              who discovered nattokinase's many benefits, but its
              availability and expense can be daunting...."allergy
              research", which supplies medical professionals, also
              has a non-professionals' product line called
              "nutricology" (www.nutricology.com), and they make a
              very cat-friendly size gel-cap which contains 36mgs of
              natto (vitamin k removed....ostensibly important,
              since vit k is a coagulant and occurs naturally in
              high amounts in soy.....rosemary???).....my
              understanding is that natto remains active in the
              human body for 6-12 hours per dose, so i've been
              giving roger his 36mgs every 8 hours, thinking that
              might be a reasonable means of keeping some in his
              system around the clock.....he is at very high risk
              for throwing a clot, given the severity of his heart
              condition (albeit, symptom free for now).....his
              latest blood tests, which included clotting times
              (pro-thrombin time, partial thromboplastic ptt,
              platelet count and fibrinogen) all came back with
              stellar results, and i would like to think that the
              natto is in some way helping in this arena.....natto
              IS pricey, but i have found (and compared) a great
              resource for it at "advantage nutrition"
              (www.advnut.com).....the cost for 300 gel-caps of the
              "nutricology" brand (36 mgs) is $91.25 incl. shipping,
              and they provide other options if your kitty might do
              better with capsules....roger also gets allopathic
              meds (spiro 6.25mgs bid, lasix 10mgs bid, with a third
              dose at 15mgs, benazepril 6.25mgs qd and atenolol 6.25
              mgs bid (atenolol, according to roger's cardiologist,
              may exacerbate existing asthma, but does not cause it,
              and works extremely well with potassium
              supplementation if warranted and monitored)....he also
              gets a "boatload" (to coin lisa's phrase) of
              supplements, which incude dmg
              (www.usanimalnutritionals.com) and a
              specific-to-his-blood-test-results compounded
              assortment of vitamins, glandulars and
              homeopathics....our fabulous nutritional vet who has
              been steering the "cat ship" at our home for more than
              11 years now, dr. brian wessels, also has him on an
              amino acid supplement specifically formulated to the
              exact requirements of the feline body "(rainbow brand"
              full spectrum nutritional supplement for
              cats...vitamins, minerals, intact proteins, amino
              acids, fish-based omega 6 and 3 fatty
              acids...845.473.1900 for a distributor).....all things
              considered, roger rags is doing very, very well at the
              moment.....eating a high quality, high protein diet,
              napping whenever the mood strikes him (often), jumping
              3-4 feet up and out of the window to sun himself on
              the roof, and juggling his catnip toy on all fours
              whilst lounging on his gorgeously patterned black and
              white back .....we are blessed, susan

              > Question on nattokinase? What dosage is used?
              > Do you use exclusively or in addition to Lasix,
              > Spiro, or dandelion
              > root, etc ?
              > Thanks, Cathy, McGovern(HCM), Number One









              "if you live to be a hundred, i want to live to be a hundred minus one day, so that i never have to live without you"....winnie the pooh



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            • cayvb
              ... roger rags is doing very, very well at the moment ... one day, so that i never have to live without you ....winnie the pooh Hi Susan, We certainly are
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 4, 2005
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                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan Burns <mettezla@y...> wrote:
                > hi cathy....my roger rags was diagnosed with severe
                > hcm and refractory chf in january of 2005, and he has
                roger rags is doing very, very well at the moment
                ....and juggling his catnip toy on all fours
                > whilst lounging on his gorgeously patterned black and
                > white back .....we are blessed, susan

                > "if you live to be a hundred, i want to live to be a hundred minus
                one day, so that i never have to live without you"....winnie the pooh

                Hi Susan,
                We certainly are blessed to have these loving animals that trust us
                with their lives. It's good to hear roger rags is doing so well.
                Thanks for the info. And I love the winnie the pooh quote.
                Cathy, McGovern(HCM), Number One
              • savionna@aol.com
                Hi Sue, In a message dated 7/1/05 11:58:11 PM, rockii@optonline.net writes: You mean tuna-flavored
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 5, 2005
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                  Hi Sue,

                  In a message dated 7/1/05 11:58:11 PM, rockii@... writes:

                  << Pepper has decided that she only wants to eat tuna. >>

                  You mean tuna-flavored cat food, right? Not the canned tuna meant for human
                  consumption.

                  << If she gets anything else, it's a real problem - she'd rather not eat at
                  all. >>

                  This is one of the problems with fish-flavored cat food, esp tuna. It is so
                  strongly flavored that cats, who have a limited sense of taste (about 500 taste
                  buds compared with the human's 9000), tend to prefer it over other tastes.
                  This is one of the reasons why it's recommended to reserve tuna as a bribe food
                  and to feed cats only limited fish overall.

                  << I know that fish is not as complete of a protein source as land animals. >>

                  It isn't? Do you have more information on this? The distribution of amino
                  acids is actually quite close for human-consumption tuna and, say, chicken.

                  << What can I add to her diet to compensate? >>

                  I'm not sure what you want to compensate for.

                  The main issues with human-consumption tuna (not tuna-flavored cat food) are:
                  1) that it is not a complete food for cats (meaning that it does not contain
                  all the nutrients a cat needs in the appropriate balance); 2) it is higher in
                  phosphorus than calcium (by a ratio of 1 cal : 15 phos, whereas the proper
                  ratio is 1.2-1.4 cal : 1 phos) and therefore unbalanced for cats (which is true
                  of all animal flesh); 3) it is deficient in taurine; 4) it is high in sodium;
                  5) it is potentially allergenic (b/c of its high histamine content); 6) it is a
                  contributing factor to struvite crystals in the urine; 7) it is a
                  contributing factor to a type of fat disorder called steatitis; 8) it is potentially
                  contaminated with ocean pollutants (depending on where it was caught); and 9) the
                  taste is addictive.

                  The main issues with tuna-flavored cat food are: 1) it is generally higher in
                  phosphorus than meat-flavored cat foods (eg Wellness chicken contains 180
                  mg/100 kcal, Solid Gold contains 265 mg/100 kcal) but is theoretically balanced
                  with calcium; 2) it may be relatively higher in sodium (depending on
                  brand/flavor) than meat-based cat foods; and 5, 6, 8, 9 as above.

                  << She's already getting 120mg CoQ10, 500mg L-carnitine, Omega oils, and
                  Missing Link. >>

                  Missing Link contains flax seed, blackstrap molasses, rice bran, primary
                  dried yeast, freeze dried liver, sunflower seed, dehydrated alfalfa, dried carrot,
                  freeze dried bone, dried fish meal, freeze dried oyster, sprouted green
                  barley, dried kelp, lecithin, garlic, and yucca schidigera extract. This product is
                  not a species-appropriate source of nutrients for cats and some of the
                  ingredients...particularly yeast, alfalfa, and kelp...are potentially problematic.

                  If you want to provide a balanced multisupplement, one product is NuCat (see
                  www.vetriscience.com), which is supposedly vet exclusive but is sold on the
                  net. The identical product is sold OTC as Tabby Tabs under the US Animal
                  Nutritionals label by the same parent company (see www.shopusanimal.com).

                  << She's eating Solid Gold's tuna cat food
                  http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=10&code=240 >>

                  Aside from the general tuna issues, the primary issue with this product is
                  its carbohydrate content, at 21% of calories from carbohydrate (from tapioca).
                  If you want to change the diet, it may be helpful to consider adding a tiny amt
                  (like 1/4 tsp or less) of a meat + fish/tuna-flavored food to this product
                  until acceptance, then gradually increase the amt (each time until
                  acceptance)...then begin again by adding a high-quality meat-based food. // Rosemary
                • Sue B
                  Rosemary, Thank you - as always - for all your advice! I will try adding some turkey in with her Solid Gold tuna. Sue ... From: To:
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 5, 2005
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                    Rosemary,

                    Thank you - as always - for all your advice! I will try adding some turkey
                    in with her Solid Gold tuna.


                    Sue

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <Savionna@...>
                    To: <rockii@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 9:26 AM
                    Subject: Re: [FH] Question on nutrition


                    > Hi Sue,
                    >
                    > In a message dated 7/1/05 11:58:11 PM, rockii@... writes:
                    >
                    > << Pepper has decided that she only wants to eat tuna. >>
                    >
                    > You mean tuna-flavored cat food, right? Not the canned tuna meant for
                    human
                    > consumption.
                    >
                    > << If she gets anything else, it's a real problem - she'd rather not eat
                    at
                    > all. >>
                    >
                    > This is one of the problems with fish-flavored cat food, esp tuna. It is
                    so
                    > strongly flavored that cats, who have a limited sense of taste (about 500
                    taste
                    > buds compared with the human's 9000), tend to prefer it over other tastes.
                    > This is one of the reasons why it's recommended to reserve tuna as a bribe
                    food
                    > and to feed cats only limited fish overall.
                    >
                    > << I know that fish is not as complete of a protein source as land
                    animals. >>
                    >
                    > It isn't? Do you have more information on this? The distribution of amino
                    > acids is actually quite close for human-consumption tuna and, say,
                    chicken.
                    >
                    > << What can I add to her diet to compensate? >>
                    >
                    > I'm not sure what you want to compensate for.
                    >
                    > The main issues with human-consumption tuna (not tuna-flavored cat food)
                    are:
                    > 1) that it is not a complete food for cats (meaning that it does not
                    contain
                    > all the nutrients a cat needs in the appropriate balance); 2) it is higher
                    in
                    > phosphorus than calcium (by a ratio of 1 cal : 15 phos, whereas the proper
                    > ratio is 1.2-1.4 cal : 1 phos) and therefore unbalanced for cats (which is
                    true
                    > of all animal flesh); 3) it is deficient in taurine; 4) it is high in
                    sodium;
                    > 5) it is potentially allergenic (b/c of its high histamine content); 6) it
                    is a
                    > contributing factor to struvite crystals in the urine; 7) it is a
                    > contributing factor to a type of fat disorder called steatitis; 8) it is
                    potentially
                    > contaminated with ocean pollutants (depending on where it was caught); and
                    9) the
                    > taste is addictive.
                    >
                    > The main issues with tuna-flavored cat food are: 1) it is generally higher
                    in
                    > phosphorus than meat-flavored cat foods (eg Wellness chicken contains 180
                    > mg/100 kcal, Solid Gold contains 265 mg/100 kcal) but is theoretically
                    balanced
                    > with calcium; 2) it may be relatively higher in sodium (depending on
                    > brand/flavor) than meat-based cat foods; and 5, 6, 8, 9 as above.
                    >
                    > << She's already getting 120mg CoQ10, 500mg L-carnitine, Omega oils, and
                    > Missing Link. >>
                    >
                    > Missing Link contains flax seed, blackstrap molasses, rice bran, primary
                    > dried yeast, freeze dried liver, sunflower seed, dehydrated alfalfa, dried
                    carrot,
                    > freeze dried bone, dried fish meal, freeze dried oyster, sprouted green
                    > barley, dried kelp, lecithin, garlic, and yucca schidigera extract. This
                    product is
                    > not a species-appropriate source of nutrients for cats and some of the
                    > ingredients...particularly yeast, alfalfa, and kelp...are potentially
                    problematic.
                    >
                    > If you want to provide a balanced multisupplement, one product is NuCat
                    (see
                    > www.vetriscience.com), which is supposedly vet exclusive but is sold on
                    the
                    > net. The identical product is sold OTC as Tabby Tabs under the US Animal
                    > Nutritionals label by the same parent company (see www.shopusanimal.com).
                    >
                    > << She's eating Solid Gold's tuna cat food
                    > http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=10&code=240 >>
                    >
                    > Aside from the general tuna issues, the primary issue with this product is
                    > its carbohydrate content, at 21% of calories from carbohydrate (from
                    tapioca).
                    > If you want to change the diet, it may be helpful to consider adding a
                    tiny amt
                    > (like 1/4 tsp or less) of a meat + fish/tuna-flavored food to this product
                    > until acceptance, then gradually increase the amt (each time until
                    > acceptance)...then begin again by adding a high-quality meat-based food.
                    // Rosemary
                    >
                  • savionna@aol.com
                    Hi Sue, In a message dated 7/5/05 2:45:27 PM, rockii@optonline.net writes: You re welcome.
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 6, 2005
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                      Hi Sue,

                      In a message dated 7/5/05 2:45:27 PM, rockii@... writes:

                      << Thank you >>

                      You're welcome.

                      << I will try adding some turkey

                      in with her Solid Gold tuna. >>

                      That's a good place to start...just a tiny dab of turkey (either a shred of
                      meat or canned cat food) under the tuna. Not enough to trigger her inhibition
                      against eating something "strange"...but enough to start getting her accustomed
                      to a "new" smell. If she goes for the dab, then next time add 2 dabs. If she
                      doesn't, try 1/2 a dab. // Rosemary
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