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Maillard reaction and salmonella

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  • Natalie A. Sera
    ... Well, if it s a browning reaction, and cooked meat browns both within and without, it would seem as though cooked meat is not good for cats. But if you
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 1, 2005
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      On Jun 1, 2005, at 7:18 PM, Lclarizia@... wrote:

      > In a message dated 6/1/2005 3:12:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
      > nsera@... writes:
      >> So, what's the Maillard reaction???
      >
      > It's a heat conversion of carbonyl and amino groups which result in
      > browning of food.  There's an explanation here:
      >
      > http://www.agsci.ubc.ca/courses/fnh/410/colour/3_82.htm
      >
      > I believe, though don't quote me on this because I'd have to double
      > check to be sure, the reaction on the free amino group of taurine
      > renders it un-absorbable to the cat and food for bacteria.

      Well, if it's a browning reaction, and cooked meat browns both within
      and without, it would seem as though cooked meat is not good for cats.
      But if you feed them raw meat, it has the possibility of being
      contaminated with salmonella. How do cats react to salmonella?
      Certainly wild cats eat raw birds and rodents, but I don't know if they
      are salmonella carriers -- however, factory-farmed chicken is most
      definitely a salmonella carrier!! Is it safe to feed raw, ground turkey
      or chicken?

      Natalie ._c-
    • Susan
      ... http://www.agsci.ubc.ca/courses/fnh/410/colour/3_82.htm ... from: http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=81801 The November/December 2003
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 1, 2005
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        --- "Natalie A. Sera" <nsera@...> wrote:

        >
        > On Jun 1, 2005, at 7:18 PM, Lclarizia@... wrote:
        >
        > > In a message dated 6/1/2005 3:12:12 PM Eastern
        > Daylight Time,
        > > nsera@... writes:
        > >> So, what's the Maillard reaction???
        > >
        > > It's a heat conversion of carbonyl and amino
        > groups which result in
        > > browning of food.  There's an explanation here:
        > >
        > >
        >
        http://www.agsci.ubc.ca/courses/fnh/410/colour/3_82.htm
        > >
        > > I believe, though don't quote me on this because
        > I'd have to double
        > > check to be sure, the reaction on the free amino
        > group of taurine
        > > renders it un-absorbable to the cat and food for
        > bacteria.
        >
        > Well, if it's a browning reaction, and cooked meat
        > browns both within
        > and without, it would seem as though cooked meat is
        > not good for cats.
        > But if you feed them raw meat, it has the
        > possibility of being
        > contaminated with salmonella. How do cats react to
        > salmonella?
        > Certainly wild cats eat raw birds and rodents, but I
        > don't know if they
        > are salmonella carriers -- however, factory-farmed
        > chicken is most
        > definitely a salmonella carrier!! Is it safe to feed
        > raw, ground turkey
        > or chicken?
        >
        > Natalie ._c-
        >
        >

        from:

        http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=81801

        "The November/December 2003 issue of the Journal of
        the American Animal Hospital Association provides a
        case report detailing the occurrence of septicemic
        salmonellosis in two cats fed a raw meat diet (Stiver
        et al. Septicemic Salmonellosis in Two Cats Fed A
        Raw-Meat Diet. J Am An Hosp Assoc 203;39:538-542.
        Accessible via www.jaaha.org).

        The two cats were part of a cattery environment and
        demonstrated clinical signs of gastrointestinal upset,
        weight loss, and anorexia that quickly progressed to a
        moribund clinical state and death. Postmortem
        examination confirmed septicemic salmonellosis as the
        underlying etiology with tissue cultures identifying
        Salmonella typhimurium in one cat, and Salmonella
        newport in the other. Similar culture results were
        obtained from the raw food fed to the latter cat."

        My cat who spent most of yesterday playing with but
        not eating a live wild mouse (I kept taking it away
        from him, but somehow he kept finding it or its
        littermates) is today not feeling well and not eating.
        I haven't found anything on diseases mice carry that
        can affect a cat that has not eaten the mouse. Perhaps
        a coincidence. He did however kill one he found in the
        house last week, but did not eat them.

        Susan





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      • Deena
        Natalie asked: Is it safe to feed raw, ground turkey or chicken? Susan replied: http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp? id=81801 The
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 2, 2005
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          Natalie asked: Is it safe to feed raw, ground turkey or chicken?

          Susan replied: http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?
          id=81801 "The November/December 2003 issue of the Journal of the
          American Animal Hospital Association provides a case report
          detailing the occurrence of septicemic salmonellosis in two cats fed
          a raw meat diet"

          Yes, cats can and do get salmonellosis as documented by the TWO cats
          in the study. (I wish they mentioned how many cats lived in the
          cattery, how long the owner had fed raw, and how many cats they
          raised on raw over the years that did not have any problems.)
          Salmonella and other nasties are also present in kibble. I recently
          attended a nutrition seminar given by Lisa Freeman. She said that
          naturally preserved kibble remains stable for only 3 months of
          manufacture, not after the bag is opened as I believed.

          The flip side is that salmonella poses less of a threat to cats as
          humans due to the strong acid of a cats stomach coupled with a short
          digestive system. http://www.rawfed.com/myths/

          So like many things, you need to weigh the pros & cons and decide
          what type of diet is best for your furbabies and your lifestyle.
          For me, I have seen too many advantages of feeding raw and feel the
          risk of salmonella is worth taking. I have fed ground
          chicken/turkey to both end-of-life cats and 3 wk old puppies w/o a
          problem for years. But everyone needs to make their own decision.

          Deena
        • Shannon
          Another thing that I worry about is the humans that live with the cats that eat raw contracting salmonella or e coli. Shannon Daisy: Maine Coon mix, 4 years
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 2, 2005
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            Another thing that I worry about is the humans that live with the cats that
            eat raw contracting salmonella or e coli.

            Shannon
            Daisy: Maine Coon mix, 4 years old, diagnosed at age 1-1/2, asymptomatic
            HCM, 6.25 mg atenolol daily
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Deena" <mottola@...>
            To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 8:15 AM
            Subject: Re: [FH] Salmonella


            > Natalie asked: Is it safe to feed raw, ground turkey or chicken?
            >
            > Susan replied: http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?
            > id=81801 "The November/December 2003 issue of the Journal of the
            > American Animal Hospital Association provides a case report
            > detailing the occurrence of septicemic salmonellosis in two cats fed
            > a raw meat diet"
            >
            > Yes, cats can and do get salmonellosis as documented by the TWO cats
            > in the study. (I wish they mentioned how many cats lived in the
            > cattery, how long the owner had fed raw, and how many cats they
            > raised on raw over the years that did not have any problems.)
            > Salmonella and other nasties are also present in kibble. I recently
            > attended a nutrition seminar given by Lisa Freeman. She said that
            > naturally preserved kibble remains stable for only 3 months of
            > manufacture, not after the bag is opened as I believed.
            >
            > The flip side is that salmonella poses less of a threat to cats as
            > humans due to the strong acid of a cats stomach coupled with a short
            > digestive system. http://www.rawfed.com/myths/
            >
            > So like many things, you need to weigh the pros & cons and decide
            > what type of dies best for your furbabies and your lifestyle.
            > For me, I have seen too many advantages of feeding raw and feel the
            > risk of salmonella is worth taking. I have fed ground
            > chicken/turkey to both end-of-life cats and 3 wk old puppies w/o a
            > problem for years. But everyone needs to make their own decision.
            >
            > Deena
            >
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            >
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          • Deena
            ... wrote: Another thing that I worry about is the humans that live with the cats that eat raw contracting salmonella or e coli. Yes this is a risk, but is it
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 2, 2005
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              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Shannon" <shannon5@c...>
              wrote: Another thing that I worry about is the humans that live with
              the cats that eat raw contracting salmonella or e coli.

              Yes this is a risk, but is it any greater than from the meat you
              prepare for the humans?

              My Nana used to occasionally feed us raw hamburger because she said
              it would help us fight off bugs (boost our immune system) The same
              is true for a little salmonella & e-coli exposure. Cat's mouths are
              pretty antiseptic and their saliva kills much of the yukkies in the
              meat. So getting kissed by a raw fed kitty is not the risk many
              perceive it to be. Cats might shed salmonella in their poop, but
              hopefully you teach kids not to eat poop. Here's one of my favorite
              articles discussing the reality of salmonella
              http://k9joy.com/dogarticles/doghealth01salmonella.pdf

              I've been feeding raw for years with zero illness caused by raw
              meat. According to the studies, this should be scientifically
              impossible especially considering we have every risk factor living
              in our house. My son was a toddler when I converted to raw and I'm
              sure put many things in his mouth he shouldn't including kitty
              krunchies. My in-laws are in their 80's and one is very weak. My
              hub and I both have multiple autoimmune disorders. I especially am
              very immune compromised. My cleanliness skills are challenged at
              best. If there was ever a perfect environment for food poisoning,
              my house could top the list.

              Again, everyone needs to make their own decision on what is
              ultimately best for your individual situation. I just want
              decisions to be based on fact rather than fear that might have been
              planted by folks who profit from our fears. Everything carries a
              risk in life. The USDA makes the dairy industry pasteurize
              everything to kill potential bugs which might make us sick. But
              they allow salmonella infected chicken to be sold. I can only
              assume if this was the danger some want us to believe it is, that
              poultry would also get sterilized even though that means that
              nutritional content goes way down.

              Deena
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