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Re: [FH] New member, kitty with dilated cardiomyopathy

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  • lclarizia@aol.com
    In a message dated 5/30/2005 12:44:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dwilliam@epix.net writes: Hi Diane and Starbucks, Welcome aboard though I am sorry you had to
    Message 1 of 7 , May 29, 2005
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      In a message dated 5/30/2005 12:44:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
      dwilliam@... writes:

      Hi Diane and Starbucks,

      Welcome aboard though I am sorry you had to join us!


      > However, if anyone has
      > any advice or thoughts, especially about the aspirin, I'd love the
      > help. Thank you very much, and I will send prayers to any of you
      > whose little buddies are suffering with heart problems too.

      Do I ever have advice or thoughts. I'm in almost the same situation as you
      -- my kitty, Baby Boy, is about 5 or 6 (was a stray, so not sure) and was
      diagnosed with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy last August and last November it was
      found that he actually had end-stage dilated cardiomyopathy. It's exceedingly
      rare in cats nowadays, as you have probably learned. Baby Boy also eats
      commercially prepared food, but as it turns out, he was *not* responsive to taurine
      in that it didn't reverse his condition, though it is still an integral part of
      his supplement regime.

      It is true that certain method of preparing cat food can lower the actual
      taurine content via the Maillard reaction and subsequent interaction with cat
      intestinal flora. However, as your vet probably told you, it's more likely that
      Starbucks' DCM has another cause, genetic or as a sequela of
      endocarditis/myocarditis. Some lines of Maine Coons are genetically predisposed to
      cardiomyopathy, but it tends to be the hypertrophic variety.

      All that being said, even if Starbucks isn't taurine responsive there is
      still plenty you can do to help him. I strongly, strongly, strongly urge you to
      start supplementing him with coenzyme q10 right away, starting at 30 mgs per
      day and working your way up to 60-200 mgs per day, depending on how well he
      tolerates it. This has shown promising results in human DCM, and I swear it saved
      Baby Boy's life last fall. At Christmas he was doing very poorly -- constant
      fluid, constant chest taps, lethargic, not eating -- and I was told I needed
      to think about euthanasia. I didn't want to do that over Christmas, so I
      started using q10 as a last resort and the change was remarkable. Coenzyme q10
      increases the available energy to cardiac cells and is also an anti-oxidant,
      preventing further cellular damage. It's actually going to be the subject of my
      doctoral thesis, thanks to all the experience I've had using it on my cat!

      Baby Boy is also on a boatload of other supplements, including vitamins A, B
      complex, C, D, E, taurine, arginine, L-carnitine, Lysine, folic acid and a few
      others. I'll send you the recipe tomorrow. The one supplement you want to
      avoid, even in a homeopathic remedy, is hawthorn which is contraindicated in
      cardiomyopathy and can be fatal.

      All of this has helped him outlive his original prognosis by many, many
      months, and he went from having a chest tap every three weeks to none for the last
      six months. His good luck won't last forever, but he's felt like a normal cat
      about 90% of the time. I came to all these supplements independently, but
      there is Karen who had an older cat named Ziggy with DCM and used basically the
      same formula on him and he did extremely well for nearly two years on it, even
      after throwing a clot (which was, I think, his first symptom) and losing a
      leg to it!

      I would ask the vet before starting the aspirin, but you will definitely want
      to address strategies to prevent clots. There's aspirin, there's
      low-molecular weight heparins like fragmin or lovenox, there's plavix and there's
      enzymatic therapies such as nattokinase. I used to use aspirin/fragmin, but I have
      my doubts about how effective aspirin really is, and Baby Boy started getting
      injection-site reactions to the fragmin. It's also quite expensive, which is a
      concern for some. I currently use vitamin E, arginine and nattokinase on
      Baby Boy.

      As for the pedialyte -- I've used that too, but only when Baby Boy wasn't
      eating. However, if Starbucks is eating and drinking normally, you shouldn't
      worry about potassium depletion unless you notice him becoming weak.

      As for the taurine plasma sample -- two days probably wouldn't make that much
      difference.

      I hope this helps, sorry it's so long. Email me any time with any questions,
      I'm happy to help. Again, welcome!

      Lisa

      "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."

      - Anatole France


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • lclarizia@aol.com
      In a message dated 5/30/2005 10:29:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... And it was some of the best advice I ve ever gotten -- I credit Susan s timely advice for
      Message 2 of 7 , May 30, 2005
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        In a message dated 5/30/2005 10:29:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
        somnamblst@... writes:


        > I see Lisa has answered many of your questions. When
        > Lisa's Baby Boy was finally swiched to a DCM diagnosis
        > from an HCM one I suggested she pretend Baby Boy was a
        > dog and dig into all the canine research. There is a
        > lot,perhaps because the breeds affected (Doberman,
        > Boxer, King Charles Spaniel, etc.) have breed
        > associations that are very active and because most
        > animal cardiology research to benefit humans is
        > performed on canines.

        And it was some of the best advice I've ever gotten -- I credit Susan's
        timely advice for being a good part of the reason why I was able to help Baby Boy.
        That kind of thing is what makes this list so valuable.

        Lisa

        "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."

        - Anatole France


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Natalie A. Sera
        ... So, what s the Maillard reaction??? Natalie ._c-
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 1, 2005
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          On May 29, 2005, at 10:23 PM, lclarizia@... wrote:

          > It is true that certain method of preparing cat food can lower the
          > actual
          > taurine content via the Maillard reaction and subsequent interaction
          > with cat
          > intestinal flora.

          So, what's the Maillard reaction???

          Natalie ._c-
        • jen
          ... Susan s ... to help Baby Boy. ... Hear, hear! (or is that here, here??!!) I ve been offline for some time and really missed everybody! I ve spent the
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 3, 2005
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            > And it was some of the best advice I've ever gotten -- I credit
            Susan's
            > timely advice for being a good part of the reason why I was able
            to help Baby Boy.
            > That kind of thing is what makes this list so valuable.


            Hear, hear! (or is that here, here??!!) I've been offline for some
            time and really missed everybody! I've spent the past few hours
            reading about 150 posts!

            Deagan is doing great, running around like an idiot! His foster
            brother Royal is staying - a turkish angora mix - and they love each
            other! The new foster arrived last week and today is his first day
            out - so far so good!

            Kitty hugs to everybody,

            jen, deagan, royal, kira the dog and sherwin the nutty foster (i
            forgot what kittens can be like!!)
          • Susan
            Thanks to Jen for her amazing way of explaining stuff due to her paramedic background and Lisa for her science background. ...
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 3, 2005
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              Thanks to Jen for her amazing way of explaining stuff
              due to her paramedic background and Lisa for her
              science background.

              --- jen <lundgren_jennifer@...> wrote:

              >
              > > And it was some of the best advice I've ever
              > gotten -- I credit
              > Susan's
              > > timely advice for being a good part of the reason
              > why I was able
              > to help Baby Boy.
              > > That kind of thing is what makes this list so
              > valuable.
              >
              >
              > Hear, hear! (or is that here, here??!!) I've been
              > offline for some
              > time and really missed everybody! I've spent the
              > past few hours
              > reading about 150 posts!
              >
              > Deagan is doing great, running around like an
              > idiot! His foster
              > brother Royal is staying - a turkish angora mix -
              > and they love each
              > other! The new foster arrived last week and today
              > is his first day
              > out - so far so good!
              >
              > Kitty hugs to everybody,
              >
              > jen, deagan, royal, kira the dog and sherwin the
              > nutty foster (i
              > forgot what kittens can be like!!)
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • Jay Bangle
              Yes! I can t even *think* of the word defibrilator* without the parenthetical CLEAR now! Thank you Jen! Jay
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 4, 2005
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                Yes! I can't even *think* of the word "defibrilator* without the
                parenthetical "CLEAR" now! Thank you Jen!

                Jay

                On Jun 3, 2005, at 6:59 PM, Susan wrote:

                > Thanks to Jen for her amazing way of explaining stuff
                > due to her paramedic background and Lisa for her
                > science background.
                >
                > --- jen <lundgren_jennifer@...> wrote:
                >
                >> Kitty hugs to everybody,
                >>
                >> jen, deagan, royal, kira the dog and sherwin the
                >> nutty foster (i
                >> forgot what kittens can be like!!)|
              • jen
                ... Right back at ya Susan! You are our source for the lastest of the studies. Without your research and help, I wouldn t know the latest research to bring to
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 4, 2005
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                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                  > Thanks to Jen for her amazing way of explaining stuff
                  > due to her paramedic background and Lisa for her
                  > science background.

                  Right back at ya Susan! You are our source for the lastest of the
                  studies. Without your research and help, I wouldn't know the latest
                  research to bring to Deagan's cardiologist!

                  jen, deagan, royal and kira the dog

                  4 yo DSH, asymptomatic. Atenolol 25 mg twice daily; ASA 40 mg bi-
                  weekly, CoQ10 30 mg daily and Cardiostrength by vetriscience 1 daily.
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