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Re: [FH] Teeth

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  • Susan Burns
    hi jodi....i m glad you bring this up, as i ve been concerned about the eventuality of teeth-cleaning for roger rags....my very savvy feline physiology
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1 7:15 AM
      hi jodi....i'm glad you bring this up, as i've been
      concerned about the eventuality of teeth-cleaning for
      roger rags....my very savvy feline physiology
      specialist believes strongly that poor gums/teeth
      health can take their toll on other parts of the
      body....i've just seen an add in "animal wellness", an
      holistically oriented publication, about a product
      called leba, which ostensibly "cleans teeth with the
      ease of a spray"....their website is
      www.lebalab.com....haven't checked them out yet, but
      they're on my list.....cheers, susan


      Jodi_Robin <jodi_robin@...> wrote:

      >
      > I reread my vet's notes from our last appointment
      > and noticed that
      > she wrote "moderate tartar." So I decided to start
      > brushing Max's
      > teeth. I noticed that his gums were red and were
      > bleeding after I
      > brushed. I spoke to the vet and she said it could
      > be ginigivitis.
      > And she wouldn't want to give him anesthesia for a
      > cleaning which I
      > totally agree with. So she could give him
      > antibiotics to control
      > any infections. Well the last time Max had flagyl
      > it completely
      > constipated him, and he's never been the same. I'm
      > willing to try
      > other antibiotics, if I have to. The vet also said
      > that some of the
      > cats who can't have their teeth cleaned can have
      > gingivitis forever
      > and it not turn into periodontal disease. The vet
      > is coming on
      > Tuesday to see how bad his teeth really are.
      >
      > My question is... Does anyone have any experience
      > with this dental
      > stuff? My gut instinct is to let this go if I can
      > at least until
      > the next ultrasound (May 2nd) to see how is heart
      > is. Does anyone
      > know if gingivitis can make his cardiomyopathy
      > worse? Will
      > antibiotics interfere with his other meds--
      > diltiazem, enalapril,
      > and fragmin. Sorry for the long post. I just want
      > to make sure
      > that I ask the right questions and don't make
      > matters worse for
      > Maxwell.
      >
      > Thanks so much.
      > -Jodi & Maxwell P
      >
      >
      >
      >


      "to know that one life has breathed easier because you have lived...this is to have succeeded"



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    • Sue B
      They say that in humans, there is a definite connection between teeth and heart disease. It would follow that the same goes for other animals. It sounds like
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1 7:37 AM
        They say that in humans, there is a definite connection between teeth and heart disease. It would follow that the same goes for other animals. It sounds like a balancing act between taking care of the two. If you are able to clean his teeth yourself with gauze or a kitty toothbrush, you may be able to get it under control so a vet cleaning under anesthesia isn't necessary. Your vet should be able to help you with that decision.




        My question is... Does anyone have any experience with this dental
        stuff? My gut instinct is to let this go if I can at least until
        the next ultrasound (May 2nd) to see how is heart is. Does anyone
        know if gingivitis can make his cardiomyopathy worse? Will
        antibiotics interfere with his other meds-- diltiazem, enalapril,
        and fragmin. Sorry for the long post. I just want to make sure
        that I ask the right questions and don't make matters worse for
        Maxwell.

        Thanks so much.
        -Jodi & Maxwell P



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • g minnier
        Thanks for the link, Susan. I m always interested in anything that make my HCM boy s life easier. He could use a dental but our vet doesn t recommend taking
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1 7:58 AM
          Thanks for the link, Susan. I'm always interested in anything that make my
          HCM boy's life easier. He could use a dental but our vet doesn't recommend
          taking the risk unless it becomes critical to his health. I looked at the
          website and found the ingredient list:

          Leba III (wonder what Leba I and II are/were?)
          INGREDIENTS: Distilled water, Ethyl alcohol 25%, Lamiaceae and Rosaceae in
          trace elements.

          Anyone have info on how safe these ingredients are?

          Gwen and the 3 cats in Phoenix
        • lclarizia@aol.com
          In a message dated 4/1/2005 9:50:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... The antibiotics shouldn t interfere with those meds, but to be on the safe side, I d look it
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1 8:06 AM
            In a message dated 4/1/2005 9:50:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
            jodi_robin@... writes:


            > My question is... Does anyone have any experience with this dental
            > stuff? My gut instinct is to let this go if I can at least until
            > the next ultrasound (May 2nd) to see how is heart is. Does anyone
            > know if gingivitis can make his cardiomyopathy worse? Will
            > antibiotics interfere with his other meds-- diltiazem, enalapril,
            > and fragmin.

            The antibiotics shouldn't interfere with those meds, but to be on the safe
            side, I'd look it up or call your local pharmacist and ask.

            As for the gingivitis itself -- Baby Boy has very bad teeth, but there's
            nothing to be done about it as he'd need anesthesia to have them treated and his
            heart is way too bad to risk anesthesia except in dire circumstances. The main
            danger for the heart from gingivitis would be a secondary infection of a
            heart valve from the mouth bacteria. It wouldn't necessarily make his
            cardiomyopathy worse.

            It's interesting, but a lot of cats with cardiomyopathies also seem to have
            really bad teeth. I don't know if it's just a random correlation or if the two
            could be related -- gingivitis in humans has been linked to coenzyme q10
            deficiency which may also be a factor in certain cardiomyopathies.

            Anyway, I would talk to your vet about it and see if there aren't any other
            treatments you could try first before opting for dentistry with anesthesia.

            Lisa


            "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."

            - Anatole France


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sue B
            I looked at that too and the high alcohol content concerns me. Any comments? Thanks for the link, Susan. I m always interested in anything that make my HCM
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 1 8:34 AM
              I looked at that too and the high alcohol content concerns me. Any comments?




              Thanks for the link, Susan. I'm always interested in anything that make my
              HCM boy's life easier. He could use a dental but our vet doesn't recommend
              taking the risk unless it becomes critical to his health. I looked at the
              website and found the ingredient list:

              Leba III (wonder what Leba I and II are/were?)
              INGREDIENTS: Distilled water, Ethyl alcohol 25%, Lamiaceae and Rosaceae in
              trace elements.

              Anyone have info on how safe these ingredients are?

              Gwen and the 3 cats in Phoenix



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • savionna@aol.com
              Hi Jodi, In a message dated 4/1/05 9:50:52 AM, jodi_robin@yahoo.com writes: What did
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 1 7:56 PM
                Hi Jodi,

                In a message dated 4/1/05 9:50:52 AM, jodi_robin@... writes:

                << I noticed that his gums were red and were bleeding after I

                brushed. >>

                What did you brush with?

                << So she could give him antibiotics to control

                any infections. >>

                Are there any bacterial infections?

                << Well the last time Max had flagyl it completely

                constipated him, and he's never been the same. >>

                Flagyl (metronidazole) kills/inhibits anaerobic bacteria, which are part of
                the bacterial balance in the gut. This can contribute to digestive/elimination
                problems. (Clindamycin, or Antirobe Rx, is another antibx often prescribed for
                the mouth.)

                << Does anyone

                know if gingivitis can make his cardiomyopathy worse? >>

                Bacteria in the mouth can affect other parts of the body, incl heart and
                kidneys. Further, it's important to maintain oral health, since it's the door to
                nutrition, which is essential to overall cat health.

                There are several ways to promote oral health in a cat.

                1. Coenzyme Q10 supports gum health...and heart health. Typical dose is about
                10-30 mg daily (altho it is used up to about 70mg depending on
                circumstances). It's available at any health-food store; you can buy it in 100mg doses and
                just sprinkle out a tiny amt in food. VetriScience (www.vetriscience.com) and
                US Animal Nutritionals (www.usanimalnutritionals.com), which belong to the same
                parent company, also make a Q10 product in animal-size doses, in animal-size
                gelcaps, for pilling.

                2. Raw chicken, game hen, or duck necks...smashed lightly with a braising
                mallet and cut into small (like 1 inch) chunks...provide exercise for the cat's
                jaw and also help clean cat's teeth. The consistency of the neck resembles that
                of natural prey animals, so that the abrasive action of sinking in the teeth
                cleans the teeth and stimulates the gums. The necks are also slightly acidic,
                which maintains proper oral pH (the high carbohydrate content of dry food can
                elevate pH, which contributes to gum/dental issues in cats, and provides
                readily available food for oral bacteria; this is exacerbated b/c dry food
                particles get stuck between cats' jagged teeth).

                3. There are several oral health products for cats with generally nontoxic
                ingredients, incl MaxiGuard Oral Cleansing Gel; see
                www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11968899&dopt=Abstract. It
                basically contains water, Vit C, and minerals, with generally nontoxic
                preservatives...and is available from various online suppliers.

                Another is CHX, but I believe that contains alcohol. // Rosemary
              • savionna@aol.com
                Hi Gwen, In a message dated 4/1/05 11:02:35 AM, paragem@hotmail.com writes:
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 1 8:02 PM
                  Hi Gwen,

                  In a message dated 4/1/05 11:02:35 AM, paragem@... writes:

                  << I looked at the
                  website and found the ingredient list:

                  Leba III (wonder what Leba I and II are/were?)
                  INGREDIENTS: Distilled water, Ethyl alcohol 25%, Lamiaceae and Rosaceae in
                  trace elements.

                  Anyone have info on how safe these ingredients are? >>

                  The water is generally safe. That's a whopping dose of alcohol. Lamiaceae is
                  simply the botanical name for plants in the mint family...and Roaceae is the
                  botanical name for plants in the rose family. There are hundreds of genera and
                  thousands of species in each family. So it would be impossible to know how
                  safe the ingredients are until you know which specific plant is used...and how
                  the plant was processed. // Rosemary
                • Jodi_Robin
                  Thanks for all of your teeth advice. The vet came by, and said that Maxwell has a lot of tartar, and mild gingivitis on one side of his mouth. She said the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 5 12:53 PM
                    Thanks for all of your teeth advice. The vet came by, and said that
                    Maxwell has a lot of tartar, and mild gingivitis on one side of his
                    mouth. She said the best thing to do is keep brushing and give him
                    the CET chews. (no need for a teeth cleaning or antibiotics)
                    Hopefully I won't have anything new to report until after his
                    ultrasound.

                    Which brings me to another question. Maxwell gets so stressed out
                    when we go to the vet. I'm worried that the stress alone will cause
                    his heart to fail. I bought the Feliway spray with the hope that it
                    will work. But is there anything else that people do to destress
                    their cats? I've tried the communicating thing, but it didn't work.
                    Perhaps I am not the greatest animal communicator.

                    Thanks again.

                    -Jodi and Maxwell P
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