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Teeth

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  • Jodi_Robin
    I reread my vet s notes from our last appointment and noticed that she wrote moderate tartar. So I decided to start brushing Max s teeth. I noticed that
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1, 2005
      I reread my vet's notes from our last appointment and noticed that
      she wrote "moderate tartar." So I decided to start brushing Max's
      teeth. I noticed that his gums were red and were bleeding after I
      brushed. I spoke to the vet and she said it could be ginigivitis.
      And she wouldn't want to give him anesthesia for a cleaning which I
      totally agree with. So she could give him antibiotics to control
      any infections. Well the last time Max had flagyl it completely
      constipated him, and he's never been the same. I'm willing to try
      other antibiotics, if I have to. The vet also said that some of the
      cats who can't have their teeth cleaned can have gingivitis forever
      and it not turn into periodontal disease. The vet is coming on
      Tuesday to see how bad his teeth really are.

      My question is... Does anyone have any experience with this dental
      stuff? My gut instinct is to let this go if I can at least until
      the next ultrasound (May 2nd) to see how is heart is. Does anyone
      know if gingivitis can make his cardiomyopathy worse? Will
      antibiotics interfere with his other meds-- diltiazem, enalapril,
      and fragmin. Sorry for the long post. I just want to make sure
      that I ask the right questions and don't make matters worse for
      Maxwell.

      Thanks so much.
      -Jodi & Maxwell P
    • Susan Burns
      hi jodi....i m glad you bring this up, as i ve been concerned about the eventuality of teeth-cleaning for roger rags....my very savvy feline physiology
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1, 2005
        hi jodi....i'm glad you bring this up, as i've been
        concerned about the eventuality of teeth-cleaning for
        roger rags....my very savvy feline physiology
        specialist believes strongly that poor gums/teeth
        health can take their toll on other parts of the
        body....i've just seen an add in "animal wellness", an
        holistically oriented publication, about a product
        called leba, which ostensibly "cleans teeth with the
        ease of a spray"....their website is
        www.lebalab.com....haven't checked them out yet, but
        they're on my list.....cheers, susan


        Jodi_Robin <jodi_robin@...> wrote:

        >
        > I reread my vet's notes from our last appointment
        > and noticed that
        > she wrote "moderate tartar." So I decided to start
        > brushing Max's
        > teeth. I noticed that his gums were red and were
        > bleeding after I
        > brushed. I spoke to the vet and she said it could
        > be ginigivitis.
        > And she wouldn't want to give him anesthesia for a
        > cleaning which I
        > totally agree with. So she could give him
        > antibiotics to control
        > any infections. Well the last time Max had flagyl
        > it completely
        > constipated him, and he's never been the same. I'm
        > willing to try
        > other antibiotics, if I have to. The vet also said
        > that some of the
        > cats who can't have their teeth cleaned can have
        > gingivitis forever
        > and it not turn into periodontal disease. The vet
        > is coming on
        > Tuesday to see how bad his teeth really are.
        >
        > My question is... Does anyone have any experience
        > with this dental
        > stuff? My gut instinct is to let this go if I can
        > at least until
        > the next ultrasound (May 2nd) to see how is heart
        > is. Does anyone
        > know if gingivitis can make his cardiomyopathy
        > worse? Will
        > antibiotics interfere with his other meds--
        > diltiazem, enalapril,
        > and fragmin. Sorry for the long post. I just want
        > to make sure
        > that I ask the right questions and don't make
        > matters worse for
        > Maxwell.
        >
        > Thanks so much.
        > -Jodi & Maxwell P
        >
        >
        >
        >


        "to know that one life has breathed easier because you have lived...this is to have succeeded"



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      • Sue B
        They say that in humans, there is a definite connection between teeth and heart disease. It would follow that the same goes for other animals. It sounds like
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1, 2005
          They say that in humans, there is a definite connection between teeth and heart disease. It would follow that the same goes for other animals. It sounds like a balancing act between taking care of the two. If you are able to clean his teeth yourself with gauze or a kitty toothbrush, you may be able to get it under control so a vet cleaning under anesthesia isn't necessary. Your vet should be able to help you with that decision.




          My question is... Does anyone have any experience with this dental
          stuff? My gut instinct is to let this go if I can at least until
          the next ultrasound (May 2nd) to see how is heart is. Does anyone
          know if gingivitis can make his cardiomyopathy worse? Will
          antibiotics interfere with his other meds-- diltiazem, enalapril,
          and fragmin. Sorry for the long post. I just want to make sure
          that I ask the right questions and don't make matters worse for
          Maxwell.

          Thanks so much.
          -Jodi & Maxwell P



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • g minnier
          Thanks for the link, Susan. I m always interested in anything that make my HCM boy s life easier. He could use a dental but our vet doesn t recommend taking
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1, 2005
            Thanks for the link, Susan. I'm always interested in anything that make my
            HCM boy's life easier. He could use a dental but our vet doesn't recommend
            taking the risk unless it becomes critical to his health. I looked at the
            website and found the ingredient list:

            Leba III (wonder what Leba I and II are/were?)
            INGREDIENTS: Distilled water, Ethyl alcohol 25%, Lamiaceae and Rosaceae in
            trace elements.

            Anyone have info on how safe these ingredients are?

            Gwen and the 3 cats in Phoenix
          • lclarizia@aol.com
            In a message dated 4/1/2005 9:50:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... The antibiotics shouldn t interfere with those meds, but to be on the safe side, I d look it
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 1, 2005
              In a message dated 4/1/2005 9:50:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
              jodi_robin@... writes:


              > My question is... Does anyone have any experience with this dental
              > stuff? My gut instinct is to let this go if I can at least until
              > the next ultrasound (May 2nd) to see how is heart is. Does anyone
              > know if gingivitis can make his cardiomyopathy worse? Will
              > antibiotics interfere with his other meds-- diltiazem, enalapril,
              > and fragmin.

              The antibiotics shouldn't interfere with those meds, but to be on the safe
              side, I'd look it up or call your local pharmacist and ask.

              As for the gingivitis itself -- Baby Boy has very bad teeth, but there's
              nothing to be done about it as he'd need anesthesia to have them treated and his
              heart is way too bad to risk anesthesia except in dire circumstances. The main
              danger for the heart from gingivitis would be a secondary infection of a
              heart valve from the mouth bacteria. It wouldn't necessarily make his
              cardiomyopathy worse.

              It's interesting, but a lot of cats with cardiomyopathies also seem to have
              really bad teeth. I don't know if it's just a random correlation or if the two
              could be related -- gingivitis in humans has been linked to coenzyme q10
              deficiency which may also be a factor in certain cardiomyopathies.

              Anyway, I would talk to your vet about it and see if there aren't any other
              treatments you could try first before opting for dentistry with anesthesia.

              Lisa


              "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."

              - Anatole France


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Sue B
              I looked at that too and the high alcohol content concerns me. Any comments? Thanks for the link, Susan. I m always interested in anything that make my HCM
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 1, 2005
                I looked at that too and the high alcohol content concerns me. Any comments?




                Thanks for the link, Susan. I'm always interested in anything that make my
                HCM boy's life easier. He could use a dental but our vet doesn't recommend
                taking the risk unless it becomes critical to his health. I looked at the
                website and found the ingredient list:

                Leba III (wonder what Leba I and II are/were?)
                INGREDIENTS: Distilled water, Ethyl alcohol 25%, Lamiaceae and Rosaceae in
                trace elements.

                Anyone have info on how safe these ingredients are?

                Gwen and the 3 cats in Phoenix



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • savionna@aol.com
                Hi Jodi, In a message dated 4/1/05 9:50:52 AM, jodi_robin@yahoo.com writes: What did
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 1, 2005
                  Hi Jodi,

                  In a message dated 4/1/05 9:50:52 AM, jodi_robin@... writes:

                  << I noticed that his gums were red and were bleeding after I

                  brushed. >>

                  What did you brush with?

                  << So she could give him antibiotics to control

                  any infections. >>

                  Are there any bacterial infections?

                  << Well the last time Max had flagyl it completely

                  constipated him, and he's never been the same. >>

                  Flagyl (metronidazole) kills/inhibits anaerobic bacteria, which are part of
                  the bacterial balance in the gut. This can contribute to digestive/elimination
                  problems. (Clindamycin, or Antirobe Rx, is another antibx often prescribed for
                  the mouth.)

                  << Does anyone

                  know if gingivitis can make his cardiomyopathy worse? >>

                  Bacteria in the mouth can affect other parts of the body, incl heart and
                  kidneys. Further, it's important to maintain oral health, since it's the door to
                  nutrition, which is essential to overall cat health.

                  There are several ways to promote oral health in a cat.

                  1. Coenzyme Q10 supports gum health...and heart health. Typical dose is about
                  10-30 mg daily (altho it is used up to about 70mg depending on
                  circumstances). It's available at any health-food store; you can buy it in 100mg doses and
                  just sprinkle out a tiny amt in food. VetriScience (www.vetriscience.com) and
                  US Animal Nutritionals (www.usanimalnutritionals.com), which belong to the same
                  parent company, also make a Q10 product in animal-size doses, in animal-size
                  gelcaps, for pilling.

                  2. Raw chicken, game hen, or duck necks...smashed lightly with a braising
                  mallet and cut into small (like 1 inch) chunks...provide exercise for the cat's
                  jaw and also help clean cat's teeth. The consistency of the neck resembles that
                  of natural prey animals, so that the abrasive action of sinking in the teeth
                  cleans the teeth and stimulates the gums. The necks are also slightly acidic,
                  which maintains proper oral pH (the high carbohydrate content of dry food can
                  elevate pH, which contributes to gum/dental issues in cats, and provides
                  readily available food for oral bacteria; this is exacerbated b/c dry food
                  particles get stuck between cats' jagged teeth).

                  3. There are several oral health products for cats with generally nontoxic
                  ingredients, incl MaxiGuard Oral Cleansing Gel; see
                  www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11968899&dopt=Abstract. It
                  basically contains water, Vit C, and minerals, with generally nontoxic
                  preservatives...and is available from various online suppliers.

                  Another is CHX, but I believe that contains alcohol. // Rosemary
                • savionna@aol.com
                  Hi Gwen, In a message dated 4/1/05 11:02:35 AM, paragem@hotmail.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 1, 2005
                    Hi Gwen,

                    In a message dated 4/1/05 11:02:35 AM, paragem@... writes:

                    << I looked at the
                    website and found the ingredient list:

                    Leba III (wonder what Leba I and II are/were?)
                    INGREDIENTS: Distilled water, Ethyl alcohol 25%, Lamiaceae and Rosaceae in
                    trace elements.

                    Anyone have info on how safe these ingredients are? >>

                    The water is generally safe. That's a whopping dose of alcohol. Lamiaceae is
                    simply the botanical name for plants in the mint family...and Roaceae is the
                    botanical name for plants in the rose family. There are hundreds of genera and
                    thousands of species in each family. So it would be impossible to know how
                    safe the ingredients are until you know which specific plant is used...and how
                    the plant was processed. // Rosemary
                  • Jodi_Robin
                    Thanks for all of your teeth advice. The vet came by, and said that Maxwell has a lot of tartar, and mild gingivitis on one side of his mouth. She said the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 5, 2005
                      Thanks for all of your teeth advice. The vet came by, and said that
                      Maxwell has a lot of tartar, and mild gingivitis on one side of his
                      mouth. She said the best thing to do is keep brushing and give him
                      the CET chews. (no need for a teeth cleaning or antibiotics)
                      Hopefully I won't have anything new to report until after his
                      ultrasound.

                      Which brings me to another question. Maxwell gets so stressed out
                      when we go to the vet. I'm worried that the stress alone will cause
                      his heart to fail. I bought the Feliway spray with the hope that it
                      will work. But is there anything else that people do to destress
                      their cats? I've tried the communicating thing, but it didn't work.
                      Perhaps I am not the greatest animal communicator.

                      Thanks again.

                      -Jodi and Maxwell P
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