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Re: [FH] Re: help!!!

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  • Garet and Shannon
    I don t think Kate believes it is an emergency, just that Izzy isn t responding to his meds like he should. And that is exactly what this group is here for.
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 24, 2004
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      I don't think Kate believes it is an emergency, just that Izzy isn't
      responding to his meds like he should. And that is exactly what this group
      is here for.

      Shannon
      Daisy: 3 year old Maine Coon mix, asymptomatic HCM, diagnosed 12/02, 6.25
      mg atenelol per day
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: turkishangoraathumanesociety
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 7:07 PM
      Subject: [FH] Re: help!!!



      You ALWAYS go to e/r for help like this...not a message board! Let
      us know how izzy does, but get the kitty to the hosp please!



      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "k_silverstein"
      <katesilverstein@h...> wrote:
      >
      > izzy is not respoding well to the lasix. the pills aren't getting
      > the last bit of fluid out of her lungs and so she has recieved a
      couple
      > injections this past week. no change in her breathing. this
      morning the vet
      > gave her an injection of lasix and an IV injection direct to her
      blood stream of
      > lasix. she said this would let the meds begin to work
      immediately. I don't see
      > any great improvement in izzy's breathing. it still seems as
      labored as it has
      > been and just as erratic. i am really concerned b/c after what
      she got this
      > morning shouldn't there have been some improvement. i am debating
      taking
      > her to the hospital. any advice please! i jsut do'nt understand
      why the
      > medicine isn't working. her heart rate has gotten better why can't
      we get the
      > last bit of fluid out of her lungs? i'm just so concerned that all
      the medicine
      > she got this morining isn't affecting her like it should. i just
      don't know if this is
      > something taking her to the hospital will help. her cardiologist
      is there tho.. i
      > don't know what to do.
      > help
      > kate and izzy





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    • turkishangoraathumanesociety
      Forgive me, I thought labored & erratic breathing was cause for a visit to the vet. ... this group
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 25, 2004
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        Forgive me, I thought "labored & erratic breathing was cause for a
        visit to the vet.

        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Garet and Shannon" <garet@c...>
        wrote:
        > I don't think Kate believes it is an emergency, just that Izzy isn't
        > responding to his meds like he should. And that is exactly what
        this group
        > is here for.
        >
        > Shannon
      • Kathryn Silverstein
        thank you shannon you are exactly right. i knew she wasn t in emergency distress but i was disturbed b/c she didn t seem to be responding to the meds and she
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 25, 2004
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          thank you shannon
          you are exactly right. i knew she wasn't in emergency distress but i was
          disturbed b/c she didn't seem to be responding to the meds and she was still
          having what i thought was some minor abdominal breathing, breathing that was
          no differet than how it had been during the past week. i was concerned b/c
          she had recieved a large dose of lasix that day and it didn't seem to have
          any effect. i did end up taking her to the hospital just to be able to speak
          to someone and things are ok now. i think i was expecting that the lasix
          would make her breath better and if she wasn't breathing better than it
          wasn't working. what i fvound out is that the lasix is working, albeit
          slowly, by removing the fluid from her lungs. the fact that she is still
          breathing funny isn't necessarily related and she may just be slow to return
          to her normal rate. they checked her blood for anemia or high acid levels
          which can both be causes of labored breathing but nothing was found. i
          guess its jsut a waiting game.
          thanks for everyones concerns
          kate



          >From: "Garet and Shannon" <garet@...>
          >To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>, "turkishangoraathumanesociety"
          ><turkishangoraathumanesociety@...>
          >Subject: Re: [FH] Re: help!!!
          >Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:17:29 -0600
          >
          >I don't think Kate believes it is an emergency, just that Izzy isn't
          >responding to his meds like he should. And that is exactly what this group
          >is here for.
          >
          >Shannon
          >Daisy: 3 year old Maine Coon mix, asymptomatic HCM, diagnosed 12/02, 6.25
          >mg atenelol per day
          >----- Original Message -----
          >From: turkishangoraathumanesociety
          >To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          >Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 7:07 PM
          >Subject: [FH] Re: help!!!
          >
          >
          >
          >You ALWAYS go to e/r for help like this...not a message board! Let
          >us know how izzy does, but get the kitty to the hosp please!
          >
          >
          >
          >--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "k_silverstein"
          ><katesilverstein@h...> wrote:
          > >
          > > izzy is not respoding well to the lasix. the pills aren't getting
          > > the last bit of fluid out of her lungs and so she has recieved a
          >couple
          > > injections this past week. no change in her breathing. this
          >morning the vet
          > > gave her an injection of lasix and an IV injection direct to her
          >blood stream of
          > > lasix. she said this would let the meds begin to work
          >immediately. I don't see
          > > any great improvement in izzy's breathing. it still seems as
          >labored as it has
          > > been and just as erratic. i am really concerned b/c after what
          >she got this
          > > morning shouldn't there have been some improvement. i am debating
          >taking
          > > her to the hospital. any advice please! i jsut do'nt understand
          >why the
          > > medicine isn't working. her heart rate has gotten better why can't
          >we get the
          > > last bit of fluid out of her lungs? i'm just so concerned that all
          >the medicine
          > > she got this morining isn't affecting her like it should. i just
          >don't know if this is
          > > something taking her to the hospital will help. her cardiologist
          >is there tho.. i
          > > don't know what to do.
          > > help
          > > kate and izzy
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
          >will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
          >feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          >To visit your group on the web, go to:
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          >
          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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        • lclarizia@aol.com
          In a message dated 12/25/2004 4:02:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Kate -- It s important to remember that it does work relatively slowly for pleural
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 25, 2004
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            In a message dated 12/25/2004 4:02:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            katesilverstein@... writes:


            > i think i was expecting that the lasix
            > would make her breath better and if she wasn't breathing better than it
            > wasn't working. what i fvound out is that the lasix is working, albeit
            > slowly, by removing the fluid from her lungs.

            Kate --

            It's important to remember that it does work relatively slowly for pleural
            effusion. It works much faster on pulmonary edema, but that is because
            physiologically, it's easier to get fluid out of the lungs than it is to remove the
            fluid trapped between the lungs and the pleura.

            Simplistic explanation -- there is always a small amount of fluid between the
            lungs and the pleura, this is normal and serves as lubrication. The fluid is
            continuously produced and then cleared away by the lymph system. Pleural
            effusion happens due to an increase in blood pressure in the lungs -- our heart
            kitties can't pump blood as efficiently as healthy heart kitties, and the blood
            "backs up" into the lungs and fluid from the blood "leaks out" as a
            compensatory mechanism to relieve some of the pressure. This fluid, when it stays in
            the lungs results in edema. When lasix is given, it overrides the normal
            "sensing" mechanism in the kidneys which determine how much fluid will be lost as
            urine. The kidneys get all their fluid from the blood stream, the lungs are
            loaded with capillaries which are more "open" to fluid so when you give lasix to
            a cat which has edema, the fluid clears comparatively quickly.

            Effusion is different. First, there are fewer capillaries in that region and
            they are less "open" to fluid. So, the only way for the effusion to drain
            off naturally is for the lymph system to clear it, which is pretty slow and
            inefficient. This is why cats with severe effusion have to be "tapped" because it
            takes too long to clear otherwise.

            A slower heart rate is good, but what's really important in terms of fluid
            build up is the ejection fraction -- that is, how *much* blood the heart can
            pump from the left ventricle. A decreased ejection fraction means the heart
            isn't pumping as much blood as it should, which results in the higher blood
            pressure in the lungs and the fluid build up. A cat can have a "good" heart rate,
            especially if it's on meds to control its heart rate, and still have a less
            than desirable ejection fraction.

            I know all about the obssessive breath-checks, and you are very smart to be
            paranoid -- because very small changes can indicate big problems, and it's
            better to err on the side of caution!

            Lisa


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • lclarizia@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/25/2004 10:39:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... I think it s always something to watch really, really closely and probably requires a
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 25, 2004
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              In a message dated 12/25/2004 10:39:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,
              turkishangoraathumanesociety@... writes:


              > Forgive me, I thought "labored & erratic breathing was cause for a
              > visit to the vet.

              I think it's always something to watch really, really closely and probably
              requires a visit to the vet. Better safe than sorry, especially when a cat is
              newly diagnosed and you're still getting used to the whole thing -- later, when
              it's more familiar it's easier to make judgement calls.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kathryn Silverstein
              thanks for the info they did a tap on izzy and said she did t have any fluid outside her lungs tho her breathing looks more labored tonight but there is no
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 25, 2004
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                thanks for the info
                they did a tap on izzy and said she did't have any fluid outside her lungs
                tho
                her breathing looks more labored tonight but there is no open mouth
                breathing yet and she is still eating and drinking so i don't want to shlep
                her back to the hospital if there is nothing they can do...
                kate


                >From: lclarizia@...
                >To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [FH] Re: help!!!
                >Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 22:39:23 EST
                >
                >In a message dated 12/25/2004 4:02:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                >katesilverstein@... writes:
                >
                >
                > > i think i was expecting that the lasix
                > > would make her breath better and if she wasn't breathing better than it
                > > wasn't working. what i fvound out is that the lasix is working, albeit
                > > slowly, by removing the fluid from her lungs.
                >
                >Kate --
                >
                >It's important to remember that it does work relatively slowly for pleural
                >effusion. It works much faster on pulmonary edema, but that is because
                >physiologically, it's easier to get fluid out of the lungs than it is to
                >remove the
                >fluid trapped between the lungs and the pleura.
                >
                >Simplistic explanation -- there is always a small amount of fluid between
                >the
                >lungs and the pleura, this is normal and serves as lubrication. The fluid
                >is
                >continuously produced and then cleared away by the lymph system. Pleural
                >effusion happens due to an increase in blood pressure in the lungs -- our
                >heart
                >kitties can't pump blood as efficiently as healthy heart kitties, and the
                >blood
                >"backs up" into the lungs and fluid from the blood "leaks out" as a
                >compensatory mechanism to relieve some of the pressure. This fluid, when
                >it stays in
                >the lungs results in edema. When lasix is given, it overrides the normal
                >"sensing" mechanism in the kidneys which determine how much fluid will be
                >lost as
                >urine. The kidneys get all their fluid from the blood stream, the lungs
                >are
                >loaded with capillaries which are more "open" to fluid so when you give
                >lasix to
                >a cat which has edema, the fluid clears comparatively quickly.
                >
                >Effusion is different. First, there are fewer capillaries in that region
                >and
                >they are less "open" to fluid. So, the only way for the effusion to drain
                >off naturally is for the lymph system to clear it, which is pretty slow and
                >inefficient. This is why cats with severe effusion have to be "tapped"
                >because it
                >takes too long to clear otherwise.
                >
                >A slower heart rate is good, but what's really important in terms of fluid
                >build up is the ejection fraction -- that is, how *much* blood the heart
                >can
                >pump from the left ventricle. A decreased ejection fraction means the
                >heart
                >isn't pumping as much blood as it should, which results in the higher blood
                >pressure in the lungs and the fluid build up. A cat can have a "good"
                >heart rate,
                >especially if it's on meds to control its heart rate, and still have a less
                >than desirable ejection fraction.
                >
                >I know all about the obssessive breath-checks, and you are very smart to be
                >paranoid -- because very small changes can indicate big problems, and it's
                >better to err on the side of caution!
                >
                >Lisa
                >
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

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              • lclarizia@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/26/2004 12:56:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Hmmmm ... well, usually they do an x-ray to see if there s fluid, but in an idiot way, if
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 26, 2004
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                  In a message dated 12/26/2004 12:56:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                  katesilverstein@... writes:


                  > they did a tap on izzy and said she did't have any fluid outside her lungs
                  > tho

                  Hmmmm ... well, usually they do an x-ray to see if there's fluid, but in an
                  idiot way, if all she has is edema she's better off as that's easier to resolve.

                  > her breathing looks more labored tonight but there is no open mouth
                  > breathing yet and she is still eating and drinking so i don't want to shlep
                  > her back to the hospital if there is nothing they can do...

                  Right, you have to balance the benefits versus the risks. If she is eating
                  and drinking well, she is probably not in too much distress (remember, I am NOT
                  a vet!!!) but you should keep an eye on her.


                  Lisa


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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