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RE: [FH] Sasquatch & a general question

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  • molly
    No lip smacking, and no vomiting ... it s possible, I suppose ... but she also exhibited the problem with breathing ... of course, it could have just looked
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 2, 2004
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      No lip smacking, and no vomiting ... it's possible, I suppose ... but she
      also exhibited the problem with breathing ... of course, it could have just
      looked like that if she was really miserable as a result of something else.
      I'm trying to think if there's anything she could have eaten or gotten into
      that I didn't notice, but nothing comes to mind.

      Molly
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Susan [mailto:somnamblst@...]
      Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:58 PM
      To: monkey@...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [FH] Sasquatch & a general question



      --- molly <monkey@...> wrote:

      > little Persian named
      > Monkey who has HCM ... She's been on meds since
      > March ... a vasodiolator and
      > a diuretic and has been doing better ... more
      > energy, etc... but on Tuesday,
      > she had a horrible day ... first problem I noticed
      > was a bout of near
      > diarrhea, but didn't think too much of it, then she
      > was looking very droopy
      > and began drooling copiously, obviously having a
      > rough time breathing with
      > the classic stare at the wall pose and very unsteady
      > when she walked ... no
      > coughing or cries of pain.

      Molly,

      I'm not sure but drooling can be a sign of nausea. Was
      there also lip licking? Maybe a stomach virus?

      Susan



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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • brinkett
      ... the ... I agree with the vet. As an aside, we had a cat with with a noticeably enlarged heart that showed up on X-rays when she was about 13 (they just
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 3, 2004
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        > (Plus, she does remind me he is almost 15 years old - and since
        the
        > HCM is MILD at this point, the NOT eating or drinking or moving
        > around is probably worse for him than NOT having the meds.)

        I agree with the vet. As an aside, we had a cat with with a
        noticeably enlarged heart that showed up on X-rays when she was
        about 13 (they just happened to see it on X-ray, I can't recall
        right now why the X-rays were done but it wasn't due to heart
        related symptoms). We were completely ignorant of heart diseases at
        the time and it was never suggested to us that the issue be pursued,
        so no ultrasound was done and basically we just shrugged over it.
        She lived to 17 and a half and died from something completely
        unrelated to her heart. She never went into congestive heart
        failure. I'm going to guess that she may have had asymptomatic HCM.

        Glad to hear that Sasquatch is perking up! :-)

        Sarah.
      • Susan
        As an aside I recently realized that while I had read quite a bit about human CHF, I had not read much about human HCM. Though it is true many cases of human
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 3, 2004
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          As an aside I recently realized that while I had read
          quite a bit about human CHF, I had not read much about
          human HCM. Though it is true many cases of human HCM
          become apparent in adolescence and young adulthood,
          some cases are geriatric. I have seen references to
          younger onset feline HCM being more acute. Perhaps
          geriatric HCM is more likely to be benign and a hands
          off approach more likely to be appropriate.

          I found the following article on human HCM
          interesting. Apparently the rationale for treating
          asymptomatics is not even resolved for people:

          http://www.acc.org/clinical/consensus/cardiomyopathy/VIII_symptoms.htm

          Susan

          --- brinkett <scrubbrush@...> wrote:

          > > (Plus, she does remind me he is almost 15 years
          > old - and since
          > the
          > > HCM is MILD at this point, the NOT eating or
          > drinking or moving
          > > around is probably worse for him than NOT having
          > the meds.)
          >
          > I agree with the vet. As an aside, we had a cat
          > with with a
          > noticeably enlarged heart that showed up on X-rays
          > when she was
          > about 13 (they just happened to see it on X-ray, I
          > can't recall
          > right now why the X-rays were done but it wasn't due
          > to heart
          > related symptoms). We were completely ignorant of
          > heart diseases at
          > the time and it was never suggested to us that the
          > issue be pursued,
          > so no ultrasound was done and basically we just
          > shrugged over it.
          > She lived to 17 and a half and died from something
          > completely
          > unrelated to her heart. She never went into
          > congestive heart
          > failure. I'm going to guess that she may have had
          > asymptomatic HCM.
          >
          > Glad to hear that Sasquatch is perking up! :-)
          >
          > Sarah.




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        • Sarah
          Hmmmm? That is curious. I am sure glad Monkey was better the following morning. Has she ever had asthma? As you mentioned she had problems breathing, I
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 6, 2004
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            Hmmmm? That is curious. I am sure glad Monkey was better the
            following morning. Has she ever had asthma? As you mentioned she
            had problems breathing, I wonder if she had some sort of asthma
            attack? Perhaps, you should take her in for a check up (have the
            vet listen to her lungs, etc.)

            SAB (Sarah)

            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "molly" <monkey@s...> wrote:
            > No lip smacking, and no vomiting ... it's possible, I suppose ...
            but she
            > also exhibited the problem with breathing ... of course, it could
            have just
            > looked like that if she was really miserable as a result of
            something else.
            > I'm trying to think if there's anything she could have eaten or
            gotten into
            > that I didn't notice, but nothing comes to mind.
            >
            > Molly
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Susan [mailto:somnamblst@y...]
            > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:58 PM
            > To: monkey@s...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [FH] Sasquatch & a general question
            >
            >
            >
            > --- molly <monkey@s...> wrote:
            >
            > > little Persian named
            > > Monkey who has HCM ... She's been on meds since
            > > March ... a vasodiolator and
            > > a diuretic and has been doing better ... more
            > > energy, etc... but on Tuesday,
            > > she had a horrible day ... first problem I noticed
            > > was a bout of near
            > > diarrhea, but didn't think too much of it, then she
            > > was looking very droopy
            > > and began drooling copiously, obviously having a
            > > rough time breathing with
            > > the classic stare at the wall pose and very unsteady
            > > when she walked ... no
            > > coughing or cries of pain.
            >
            > Molly,
            >
            > I'm not sure but drooling can be a sign of nausea. Was
            > there also lip licking? Maybe a stomach virus?
            >
            > Susan
            >
            >
            >
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            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • molly
            Yes this was a strange incident... we did go to the vet the very next day. I don t know if you ve seen pictures of a cat in congestive heart failure? ...
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 6, 2004
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              Yes this was a strange incident... we did go to the vet the very next day.
              I don't know if you've seen pictures of a cat in congestive heart failure?
              ... standing with neck stretched, etc... this was what it looked like. I'm
              still of the mind that it had something to do with her HCM ... fortunately,
              she's been doing well since then. Monkey has been lucky to respond to the
              heart meds ... before medication, she had no energy and just lay around all
              of the time, occasionally in the pose I described above, staring at the wall
              ... it's so good to see her up and about.

              Molly
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Sarah [mailto:burke43@...]
              Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 9:56 AM
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [FH] Re: Sasquatch & a general question


              Hmmmm? That is curious. I am sure glad Monkey was better the
              following morning. Has she ever had asthma? As you mentioned she
              had problems breathing, I wonder if she had some sort of asthma
              attack? Perhaps, you should take her in for a check up (have the
              vet listen to her lungs, etc.)

              SAB (Sarah)

              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "molly" <monkey@s...> wrote:
              > No lip smacking, and no vomiting ... it's possible, I suppose ...
              but she
              > also exhibited the problem with breathing ... of course, it could
              have just
              > looked like that if she was really miserable as a result of
              something else.
              > I'm trying to think if there's anything she could have eaten or
              gotten into
              > that I didn't notice, but nothing comes to mind.
              >
              > Molly
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Susan [mailto:somnamblst@y...]
              > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:58 PM
              > To: monkey@s...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [FH] Sasquatch & a general question
              >
              >
              >
              > --- molly <monkey@s...> wrote:
              >
              > > little Persian named
              > > Monkey who has HCM ... She's been on meds since
              > > March ... a vasodiolator and
              > > a diuretic and has been doing better ... more
              > > energy, etc... but on Tuesday,
              > > she had a horrible day ... first problem I noticed
              > > was a bout of near
              > > diarrhea, but didn't think too much of it, then she
              > > was looking very droopy
              > > and began drooling copiously, obviously having a
              > > rough time breathing with
              > > the classic stare at the wall pose and very unsteady
              > > when she walked ... no
              > > coughing or cries of pain.
              >
              > Molly,
              >
              > I'm not sure but drooling can be a sign of nausea. Was
              > there also lip licking? Maybe a stomach virus?
              >
              > Susan
              >
              >
              >
              > _______________________________
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              > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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              >
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              > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
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              >
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              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              ---------
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              >
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              >
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              of Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Sarah
              When my got was in CHF, he did not have an outstretched neck. He crouched under the bed and his breathing seemed crackly. When we got to the ER, I learned
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 8, 2004
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                When my got was in CHF, he did not have an outstretched neck. He
                crouched under the bed and his breathing seemed "crackly." When we
                got to the ER, I learned that the crackly sound was the fluid in his
                lungs. Also, his breath per minute rate was around 80.

                He has only done the outstretched neck posture when he has (what I
                call) an "asthma attack." For him, I believe the outstretched neck
                and coughing is bronchial related.

                SAB (Sarah)

                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "molly" <monkey@s...> wrote:
                > Yes this was a strange incident... we did go to the vet the very
                next day.
                > I don't know if you've seen pictures of a cat in congestive heart
                failure?
                > ... standing with neck stretched, etc... this was what it looked
                like.
              • Susan
                A really good source for evaluating respiratory distress is: Emergency Respiratory Assessment
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 8, 2004
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                  A really good source for evaluating respiratory
                  distress is:

                  Emergency Respiratory Assessment

                  http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00100.htm

                  One should look for the postural manifestations of
                  dyspnea (respiratory distress) such as an extended
                  neck, abducted elbows, open mouth breathing, an
                  anxious facial expression, increased abdominal
                  movement, and paradoxical abdominal movement.
                  Straightening of the neck and open mouth breathing
                  occur in both dogs and cats, however, some other
                  postural manifestations of more severe dyspnea vary
                  between species. Dogs prefer to stand with abducted
                  elbows, while cats tend to sit in sternal recumbency
                  (meatloaf position). Constantly changing body position
                  in cats implies a much worse degree of dyspnea than it
                  does in dogs. Lateral recumbency (laying on side) due
                  to dyspnea is a serious sign in a dog; however, it
                  often means impending respiratory arrest in a cat.
                  Another flag to pull out the endotracheal tubes is the
                  marked mydriasis (dilation of the pupils) that cats
                  will develop immediately prior to respiratory arrest.


                  --- Sarah <burke43@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > When my got was in CHF, he did not have an
                  > outstretched neck. He
                  > crouched under the bed and his breathing seemed
                  > "crackly." When we
                  > got to the ER, I learned that the crackly sound was
                  > the fluid in his
                  > lungs. Also, his breath per minute rate was around
                  > 80.
                  >
                  > He has only done the outstretched neck posture when
                  > he has (what I
                  > call) an "asthma attack." For him, I believe the
                  > outstretched neck
                  > and coughing is bronchial related.
                  >
                  > SAB (Sarah)
                  >
                  > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "molly"
                  > <monkey@s...> wrote:
                  > > Yes this was a strange incident... we did go to
                  > the vet the very
                  > next day.
                  > > I don't know if you've seen pictures of a cat in
                  > congestive heart
                  > failure?
                  > > ... standing with neck stretched, etc... this was
                  > what it looked
                  > like.




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                • lclarizia@aol.com
                  In a message dated 9/8/2004 1:06:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Mine didn t either ... he was in another room, when I heard the hairball sound. When he
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 8, 2004
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                    In a message dated 9/8/2004 1:06:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    burke43@... writes:


                    > When my got was in CHF, he did not have an outstretched neck. He
                    > crouched under the bed and his breathing seemed "crackly." When we
                    > got to the ER, I learned that the crackly sound was the fluid in his
                    > lungs. Also, his breath per minute rate was around 80.

                    Mine didn't either ... he was in another room, when I heard the "hairball"
                    sound. When he came out, he seemed like he was breathing a little too fast, and
                    that his abdominal muscles were pulling in a little too deeply. Otherwise,
                    he was stretched out on the floor in his usual sleep posture, purring. I had a
                    gut feeling something was wrong, but figured I was imagining things and felt
                    like an idiot calling my vet out on an emergency when probably nothing was
                    wrong ... thank God I listened to my gut.

                    Lisa


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • brinkett
                    ... Nor mine. I could always tell when Morag had fluid from her respiration rate and pattern. She never had an outstretched neck in all of her bouts with
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 8, 2004
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                      > > When my got was in CHF, he did not have an outstretched neck.

                      > Mine didn't either ...

                      Nor mine. I could always tell when Morag had fluid from her
                      respiration rate and pattern. She never had an outstretched neck in
                      all of her bouts with fluid. It probably depends on the cat, so
                      don't wait for an outstretched neck before taking your cat in if you
                      think the cat has fluid. You might never see it.

                      Sarah.
                    • Linda Fischbach
                      Last year I put Respiration-Breathing Pattern Assessment.doc in the files section http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/files/ . This was writtens by a
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 8, 2004
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                        Last year I put Respiration-Breathing Pattern Assessment.doc in the files
                        section http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/files/ . This was
                        writtens by a member of Feline CRF Support whose cat had heart disease as
                        well as CRF. She posted this to CRF Support, and I got her permission to
                        put it into our files.

                        Linda

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "brinkett" <scrubbrush@...>
                        To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:42 PM
                        Subject: [FH] Re: Sasquatch & a general question


                        > > > When my got was in CHF, he did not have an outstretched neck.
                        >
                        > > Mine didn't either ...
                        >
                        > Nor mine. I could always tell when Morag had fluid from her
                        > respiration rate and pattern. She never had an outstretched neck in
                        > all of her bouts with fluid. It probably depends on the cat, so
                        > don't wait for an outstretched neck before taking your cat in if you
                        > think the cat has fluid. You might never see it.
                        >
                        > Sarah.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                        will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
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                        >
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                        >
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