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Sasquatch - begging for treats and bossing other cats around!

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  • fancidots
    Sasquatch has been off the atenolol for 2 full days. Last night, he begged for potato chips when we were eating some, in the living room watching TV. Then he
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 2, 2004
      Sasquatch has been off the atenolol for 2 full days. Last night, he
      begged for potato chips when we were eating some, in the living room
      watching TV. Then he drank a bit... This morning he was on the
      counter in the kitchen, helping me make coffee (yeah help) and
      TODAY he ate 1/2 jar of chicken baby food.

      I know it's NOT a miracle recovery. But he IS acting more HAPPY.
      It's like he know's I've given up on the meds... and that's what he
      seems to want.

      All I know is, if he's begging for treats, eating, drinking and
      bossing his younger "fur family" around. He DOES feel better
      without the meds.

      I've talked to my vet. She agrees that since he's been on the meds
      less than 3 months, and been tried on 2 different drugs... that
      maybe the kindest thing would be to allow him to be "KING of HIS
      jungle" for the remainder of his days, even if it shortens his life,
      ultimately - She agrees Quality is more important than length.
      (Plus, she does remind me he is almost 15 years old - and since the
      HCM is MILD at this point, the NOT eating or drinking or moving
      around is probably worse for him than NOT having the meds.)

      I even spotted him "wrangling" kittens away from his crunchie bowl,
      earlier (smile) The kittens don't argue -- if he "talks" to them,
      walking in their direction - the RUN!

      Thank you all for your encouragement and support. I bought a new
      tube of Nutri-cal, today... and a half case of baby food. I'll feed
      him whatever he will EAT at this point! He IS still "nibbling" on
      the Science Diet K/D a little, too :)

      Hugs to all the struggling fur babies out there - and deepest
      gratitude to everyone who wrote me with words of encouragement and
      sympathy for my situation.

      I'll keep a close watch on him, obviously, and I'll try to stay
      close to this group. I'm sure there will be more difficult days
      ahead, but rignt now, I'm going to give him all the love and
      attention he will tolerate.

      My best, to ALL,
      LaVon Fabian
      "fancidots"
    • molly
      This is fantastic news about Sasquatch ... I m so glad he s eating. It s must also be a relief to have made the decision to take him off the meds, and to see
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 2, 2004
        This is fantastic news about Sasquatch ... I'm so glad he's eating. It's
        must also be a relief to have made the decision to take him off the meds,
        and to see him responding positively.

        I have a question for the group .. I haven't been a member very long. I
        posted a bit about this on the day it happened, but I think it went to an
        individual instead of out to the group. I have a little Persian named
        Monkey who has HCM ... She's been on meds since March ... a vasodiolator and
        a diuretic and has been doing better ... more energy, etc... but on Tuesday,
        she had a horrible day ... first problem I noticed was a bout of near
        diarrhea, but didn't think too much of it, then she was looking very droopy
        and began drooling copiously, obviously having a rough time breathing with
        the classic stare at the wall pose and very unsteady when she walked ... no
        coughing or cries of pain. I decided against an emergency room visit as I
        didn't want to stress her out and subject her to procedures if this was "IT"
        ... the vet agreed over the phone and we made an appt. for the next day,
        assuming she survived the night. Well, next day she greeted me with a
        stretch and a purr and ate a little. She's been okay since then. The vet
        suggested that this might have been due to something else, as he said it's
        rare for a cat to rally without any intervention ... she didn't even get her
        meds that day as I felt she was too sick? But, I can't think of anything
        that could have brought on an attach of that nature ... and so severe,
        except for a heart related thing... could she have had a blood clot or
        something? Has anyone had an experience like this?

        Thanks.

        Molly and Monkey
        -----Original Message-----
        From: fancidots [mailto:f.lavon@...]
        Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 4:21 PM
        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [FH] Sasquatch - begging for treats and bossing other cats
        around!


        Sasquatch has been off the atenolol for 2 full days. Last night, he
        begged for potato chips when we were eating some, in the living room
        watching TV. Then he drank a bit... This morning he was on the
        counter in the kitchen, helping me make coffee (yeah help) and
        TODAY he ate 1/2 jar of chicken baby food.

        I know it's NOT a miracle recovery. But he IS acting more HAPPY.
        It's like he know's I've given up on the meds... and that's what he
        seems to want.

        My best, to ALL,
        LaVon Fabian
        "fancidots"



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      • Susan
        ... Molly, I m not sure but drooling can be a sign of nausea. Was there also lip licking? Maybe a stomach virus? Susan _______________________________ Do you
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 2, 2004
          --- molly <monkey@...> wrote:

          > little Persian named
          > Monkey who has HCM ... She's been on meds since
          > March ... a vasodiolator and
          > a diuretic and has been doing better ... more
          > energy, etc... but on Tuesday,
          > she had a horrible day ... first problem I noticed
          > was a bout of near
          > diarrhea, but didn't think too much of it, then she
          > was looking very droopy
          > and began drooling copiously, obviously having a
          > rough time breathing with
          > the classic stare at the wall pose and very unsteady
          > when she walked ... no
          > coughing or cries of pain.

          Molly,

          I'm not sure but drooling can be a sign of nausea. Was
          there also lip licking? Maybe a stomach virus?

          Susan



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        • molly
          No lip smacking, and no vomiting ... it s possible, I suppose ... but she also exhibited the problem with breathing ... of course, it could have just looked
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 2, 2004
            No lip smacking, and no vomiting ... it's possible, I suppose ... but she
            also exhibited the problem with breathing ... of course, it could have just
            looked like that if she was really miserable as a result of something else.
            I'm trying to think if there's anything she could have eaten or gotten into
            that I didn't notice, but nothing comes to mind.

            Molly
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Susan [mailto:somnamblst@...]
            Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:58 PM
            To: monkey@...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [FH] Sasquatch & a general question



            --- molly <monkey@...> wrote:

            > little Persian named
            > Monkey who has HCM ... She's been on meds since
            > March ... a vasodiolator and
            > a diuretic and has been doing better ... more
            > energy, etc... but on Tuesday,
            > she had a horrible day ... first problem I noticed
            > was a bout of near
            > diarrhea, but didn't think too much of it, then she
            > was looking very droopy
            > and began drooling copiously, obviously having a
            > rough time breathing with
            > the classic stare at the wall pose and very unsteady
            > when she walked ... no
            > coughing or cries of pain.

            Molly,

            I'm not sure but drooling can be a sign of nausea. Was
            there also lip licking? Maybe a stomach virus?

            Susan



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • brinkett
            ... the ... I agree with the vet. As an aside, we had a cat with with a noticeably enlarged heart that showed up on X-rays when she was about 13 (they just
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 3, 2004
              > (Plus, she does remind me he is almost 15 years old - and since
              the
              > HCM is MILD at this point, the NOT eating or drinking or moving
              > around is probably worse for him than NOT having the meds.)

              I agree with the vet. As an aside, we had a cat with with a
              noticeably enlarged heart that showed up on X-rays when she was
              about 13 (they just happened to see it on X-ray, I can't recall
              right now why the X-rays were done but it wasn't due to heart
              related symptoms). We were completely ignorant of heart diseases at
              the time and it was never suggested to us that the issue be pursued,
              so no ultrasound was done and basically we just shrugged over it.
              She lived to 17 and a half and died from something completely
              unrelated to her heart. She never went into congestive heart
              failure. I'm going to guess that she may have had asymptomatic HCM.

              Glad to hear that Sasquatch is perking up! :-)

              Sarah.
            • Susan
              As an aside I recently realized that while I had read quite a bit about human CHF, I had not read much about human HCM. Though it is true many cases of human
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 3, 2004
                As an aside I recently realized that while I had read
                quite a bit about human CHF, I had not read much about
                human HCM. Though it is true many cases of human HCM
                become apparent in adolescence and young adulthood,
                some cases are geriatric. I have seen references to
                younger onset feline HCM being more acute. Perhaps
                geriatric HCM is more likely to be benign and a hands
                off approach more likely to be appropriate.

                I found the following article on human HCM
                interesting. Apparently the rationale for treating
                asymptomatics is not even resolved for people:

                http://www.acc.org/clinical/consensus/cardiomyopathy/VIII_symptoms.htm

                Susan

                --- brinkett <scrubbrush@...> wrote:

                > > (Plus, she does remind me he is almost 15 years
                > old - and since
                > the
                > > HCM is MILD at this point, the NOT eating or
                > drinking or moving
                > > around is probably worse for him than NOT having
                > the meds.)
                >
                > I agree with the vet. As an aside, we had a cat
                > with with a
                > noticeably enlarged heart that showed up on X-rays
                > when she was
                > about 13 (they just happened to see it on X-ray, I
                > can't recall
                > right now why the X-rays were done but it wasn't due
                > to heart
                > related symptoms). We were completely ignorant of
                > heart diseases at
                > the time and it was never suggested to us that the
                > issue be pursued,
                > so no ultrasound was done and basically we just
                > shrugged over it.
                > She lived to 17 and a half and died from something
                > completely
                > unrelated to her heart. She never went into
                > congestive heart
                > failure. I'm going to guess that she may have had
                > asymptomatic HCM.
                >
                > Glad to hear that Sasquatch is perking up! :-)
                >
                > Sarah.




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              • Sarah
                Hmmmm? That is curious. I am sure glad Monkey was better the following morning. Has she ever had asthma? As you mentioned she had problems breathing, I
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 6, 2004
                  Hmmmm? That is curious. I am sure glad Monkey was better the
                  following morning. Has she ever had asthma? As you mentioned she
                  had problems breathing, I wonder if she had some sort of asthma
                  attack? Perhaps, you should take her in for a check up (have the
                  vet listen to her lungs, etc.)

                  SAB (Sarah)

                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "molly" <monkey@s...> wrote:
                  > No lip smacking, and no vomiting ... it's possible, I suppose ...
                  but she
                  > also exhibited the problem with breathing ... of course, it could
                  have just
                  > looked like that if she was really miserable as a result of
                  something else.
                  > I'm trying to think if there's anything she could have eaten or
                  gotten into
                  > that I didn't notice, but nothing comes to mind.
                  >
                  > Molly
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Susan [mailto:somnamblst@y...]
                  > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:58 PM
                  > To: monkey@s...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [FH] Sasquatch & a general question
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- molly <monkey@s...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > little Persian named
                  > > Monkey who has HCM ... She's been on meds since
                  > > March ... a vasodiolator and
                  > > a diuretic and has been doing better ... more
                  > > energy, etc... but on Tuesday,
                  > > she had a horrible day ... first problem I noticed
                  > > was a bout of near
                  > > diarrhea, but didn't think too much of it, then she
                  > > was looking very droopy
                  > > and began drooling copiously, obviously having a
                  > > rough time breathing with
                  > > the classic stare at the wall pose and very unsteady
                  > > when she walked ... no
                  > > coughing or cries of pain.
                  >
                  > Molly,
                  >
                  > I'm not sure but drooling can be a sign of nausea. Was
                  > there also lip licking? Maybe a stomach virus?
                  >
                  > Susan
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel
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                  > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
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                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • molly
                  Yes this was a strange incident... we did go to the vet the very next day. I don t know if you ve seen pictures of a cat in congestive heart failure? ...
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 6, 2004
                    Yes this was a strange incident... we did go to the vet the very next day.
                    I don't know if you've seen pictures of a cat in congestive heart failure?
                    ... standing with neck stretched, etc... this was what it looked like. I'm
                    still of the mind that it had something to do with her HCM ... fortunately,
                    she's been doing well since then. Monkey has been lucky to respond to the
                    heart meds ... before medication, she had no energy and just lay around all
                    of the time, occasionally in the pose I described above, staring at the wall
                    ... it's so good to see her up and about.

                    Molly
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Sarah [mailto:burke43@...]
                    Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 9:56 AM
                    To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [FH] Re: Sasquatch & a general question


                    Hmmmm? That is curious. I am sure glad Monkey was better the
                    following morning. Has she ever had asthma? As you mentioned she
                    had problems breathing, I wonder if she had some sort of asthma
                    attack? Perhaps, you should take her in for a check up (have the
                    vet listen to her lungs, etc.)

                    SAB (Sarah)

                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "molly" <monkey@s...> wrote:
                    > No lip smacking, and no vomiting ... it's possible, I suppose ...
                    but she
                    > also exhibited the problem with breathing ... of course, it could
                    have just
                    > looked like that if she was really miserable as a result of
                    something else.
                    > I'm trying to think if there's anything she could have eaten or
                    gotten into
                    > that I didn't notice, but nothing comes to mind.
                    >
                    > Molly
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Susan [mailto:somnamblst@y...]
                    > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:58 PM
                    > To: monkey@s...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [FH] Sasquatch & a general question
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- molly <monkey@s...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > little Persian named
                    > > Monkey who has HCM ... She's been on meds since
                    > > March ... a vasodiolator and
                    > > a diuretic and has been doing better ... more
                    > > energy, etc... but on Tuesday,
                    > > she had a horrible day ... first problem I noticed
                    > > was a bout of near
                    > > diarrhea, but didn't think too much of it, then she
                    > > was looking very droopy
                    > > and began drooling copiously, obviously having a
                    > > rough time breathing with
                    > > the classic stare at the wall pose and very unsteady
                    > > when she walked ... no
                    > > coughing or cries of pain.
                    >
                    > Molly,
                    >
                    > I'm not sure but drooling can be a sign of nausea. Was
                    > there also lip licking? Maybe a stomach virus?
                    >
                    > Susan
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
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                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                  • Sarah
                    When my got was in CHF, he did not have an outstretched neck. He crouched under the bed and his breathing seemed crackly. When we got to the ER, I learned
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 8, 2004
                      When my got was in CHF, he did not have an outstretched neck. He
                      crouched under the bed and his breathing seemed "crackly." When we
                      got to the ER, I learned that the crackly sound was the fluid in his
                      lungs. Also, his breath per minute rate was around 80.

                      He has only done the outstretched neck posture when he has (what I
                      call) an "asthma attack." For him, I believe the outstretched neck
                      and coughing is bronchial related.

                      SAB (Sarah)

                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "molly" <monkey@s...> wrote:
                      > Yes this was a strange incident... we did go to the vet the very
                      next day.
                      > I don't know if you've seen pictures of a cat in congestive heart
                      failure?
                      > ... standing with neck stretched, etc... this was what it looked
                      like.
                    • Susan
                      A really good source for evaluating respiratory distress is: Emergency Respiratory Assessment
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 8, 2004
                        A really good source for evaluating respiratory
                        distress is:

                        Emergency Respiratory Assessment

                        http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00100.htm

                        One should look for the postural manifestations of
                        dyspnea (respiratory distress) such as an extended
                        neck, abducted elbows, open mouth breathing, an
                        anxious facial expression, increased abdominal
                        movement, and paradoxical abdominal movement.
                        Straightening of the neck and open mouth breathing
                        occur in both dogs and cats, however, some other
                        postural manifestations of more severe dyspnea vary
                        between species. Dogs prefer to stand with abducted
                        elbows, while cats tend to sit in sternal recumbency
                        (meatloaf position). Constantly changing body position
                        in cats implies a much worse degree of dyspnea than it
                        does in dogs. Lateral recumbency (laying on side) due
                        to dyspnea is a serious sign in a dog; however, it
                        often means impending respiratory arrest in a cat.
                        Another flag to pull out the endotracheal tubes is the
                        marked mydriasis (dilation of the pupils) that cats
                        will develop immediately prior to respiratory arrest.


                        --- Sarah <burke43@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > When my got was in CHF, he did not have an
                        > outstretched neck. He
                        > crouched under the bed and his breathing seemed
                        > "crackly." When we
                        > got to the ER, I learned that the crackly sound was
                        > the fluid in his
                        > lungs. Also, his breath per minute rate was around
                        > 80.
                        >
                        > He has only done the outstretched neck posture when
                        > he has (what I
                        > call) an "asthma attack." For him, I believe the
                        > outstretched neck
                        > and coughing is bronchial related.
                        >
                        > SAB (Sarah)
                        >
                        > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "molly"
                        > <monkey@s...> wrote:
                        > > Yes this was a strange incident... we did go to
                        > the vet the very
                        > next day.
                        > > I don't know if you've seen pictures of a cat in
                        > congestive heart
                        > failure?
                        > > ... standing with neck stretched, etc... this was
                        > what it looked
                        > like.




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                      • lclarizia@aol.com
                        In a message dated 9/8/2004 1:06:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Mine didn t either ... he was in another room, when I heard the hairball sound. When he
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 8, 2004
                          In a message dated 9/8/2004 1:06:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                          burke43@... writes:


                          > When my got was in CHF, he did not have an outstretched neck. He
                          > crouched under the bed and his breathing seemed "crackly." When we
                          > got to the ER, I learned that the crackly sound was the fluid in his
                          > lungs. Also, his breath per minute rate was around 80.

                          Mine didn't either ... he was in another room, when I heard the "hairball"
                          sound. When he came out, he seemed like he was breathing a little too fast, and
                          that his abdominal muscles were pulling in a little too deeply. Otherwise,
                          he was stretched out on the floor in his usual sleep posture, purring. I had a
                          gut feeling something was wrong, but figured I was imagining things and felt
                          like an idiot calling my vet out on an emergency when probably nothing was
                          wrong ... thank God I listened to my gut.

                          Lisa


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • brinkett
                          ... Nor mine. I could always tell when Morag had fluid from her respiration rate and pattern. She never had an outstretched neck in all of her bouts with
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 8, 2004
                            > > When my got was in CHF, he did not have an outstretched neck.

                            > Mine didn't either ...

                            Nor mine. I could always tell when Morag had fluid from her
                            respiration rate and pattern. She never had an outstretched neck in
                            all of her bouts with fluid. It probably depends on the cat, so
                            don't wait for an outstretched neck before taking your cat in if you
                            think the cat has fluid. You might never see it.

                            Sarah.
                          • Linda Fischbach
                            Last year I put Respiration-Breathing Pattern Assessment.doc in the files section http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/files/ . This was writtens by a
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 8, 2004
                              Last year I put Respiration-Breathing Pattern Assessment.doc in the files
                              section http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/files/ . This was
                              writtens by a member of Feline CRF Support whose cat had heart disease as
                              well as CRF. She posted this to CRF Support, and I got her permission to
                              put it into our files.

                              Linda

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "brinkett" <scrubbrush@...>
                              To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:42 PM
                              Subject: [FH] Re: Sasquatch & a general question


                              > > > When my got was in CHF, he did not have an outstretched neck.
                              >
                              > > Mine didn't either ...
                              >
                              > Nor mine. I could always tell when Morag had fluid from her
                              > respiration rate and pattern. She never had an outstretched neck in
                              > all of her bouts with fluid. It probably depends on the cat, so
                              > don't wait for an outstretched neck before taking your cat in if you
                              > think the cat has fluid. You might never see it.
                              >
                              > Sarah.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
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