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Re: [FH] great news about Spazz

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  • Susan
    Great news Morticia, Can you tell us if Spazz is on an ACE-inhibitor? If so is he also on lasix? The reason I ask is because there is one cardiologist (Rush)
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 4, 2004
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      Great news Morticia,

      Can you tell us if Spazz is on an ACE-inhibitor? If so
      is he also on lasix?

      The reason I ask is because there is one cardiologist
      (Rush) who has reported improvement he has attributed
      to an ACE-inhibitor.

      "A recent report by Rush, et al. demonstrated a
      reduction in wall thickness with the administration of
      enalapril to cats with HCM. This suggests a potential
      role for ACE-inhibitors in the treatment of HCM.
      These drugs are generally safe and do play a role in
      cases which are refractory or in which pleural
      effusion is present. In asymptomatic patients, it is
      logical that the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system
      is not pathologically activated, and hence
      ACE-inhibitors would not be useful. The study
      referred to argues that they may play a role, however.
      Further studies are being planned."

      Susan


      --- Morticia <morticiaw666@...> wrote:
      > Good Morning All,
      >
      >
      > Just wanted to give you the great news we got
      > yesterday. Spazz went
      > in for his 6 month check up, and his heart has
      > improved :-)
      > The chamber on the left that was holding the blood
      > in is now pumping
      > the blood out more like it supposed to. Dr. Mark,
      > did tell me that
      > he is still a very sick little boy, but that he is
      > very optimistic
      > on his condition as it is now. The heart walls that
      > had started to
      > thicken has now thinned out slightly. What wonderful
      > news to get on
      > such a beautiful Maine day.
      > I went in only hoping for nothing more then to be
      > told that his
      > heart hadnt gotten any worse, never hoped for
      > anything more then
      > that. But when he came out and give me this news, I
      > literally got
      > goosebumps all over my body. I can not describe my
      > happiness right
      > now. I also feel kind of guilty for having such
      > great news, when I
      > have been reading so many posts lately of so many of
      > you losing your
      > beloved babies.
      > I will keep all of you and your babies, here and the
      > angels in my
      > prayers, and in my heart. Thank you all for the
      > information I have
      > gotten to help me understand this horrible disease
      > better. I can not
      > imagine if I had not found this site.
      > God bless everyone and their wonderful furbabies.
      >
      >
      > Your Friends,
      > Morticia & Spazz
      >
      >
      >
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      > --------------------~-->
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      >
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      >
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      >
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      >
      >
      >





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    • amy brightfield
      Hello everyone: My little black and tan tabby, moomoo, just passed away this past Sunday from severe heart disease. She was just eight years old. I wanted to
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 4, 2004
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        Hello everyone:

        My little black and tan tabby, moomoo, just passed
        away this past Sunday from severe heart disease. She
        was just eight years old. I wanted to tell you her
        story in hopes that you all may glean some new
        information about heart disease.
        She was diagnosed with arrhythmic right ventricular
        cardiomyopathy. What basically happened was that she
        had what the cardiologist thinks was a heart attack
        last Monday night. This caused an arrhythmia. She
        never had any problems before this; I took her to a
        yearly check-up and the vet never detected anything
        abnormal. (Although now I tend to think maybe she
        missed something?)

        She survived the h. attack on Monday night. THey did
        bloodwork on her Tues. and an echocardiogram on
        Wednesday which reported right and left ventricle
        dilation; some thickening on the left wall and the
        arrhythmia. That vet sent Moomoo home with diltiazem
        (a calcium channel blocker) and told me she could live
        up to five years.

        I wasn't keen on how this vet center had treated her,
        so I took her to another cardiologist on Thursday who
        did another EKG and an echo. She came in and told me
        that Moomoo might only have days to live. I was in
        total shock. Here I had just come from the other vet
        who told me it might be years and that she didn't have
        to come back for another echo for six months! But this
        new cardiologist was definitely much smarter.
        She explained to me that because Moomoo had so much
        wrong with her heart; the dilation of the ventricles,
        the thickening of the wall and the arrhythmia --- that
        her condition was very hard to treat. Because of the
        arrhythmia, she was at high risk for sudden cardiac
        death and/or throwing a clot at any time. That's why
        her prognosis was so poor.
        But she did send Moomoo home with medicine --
        Enapapril (Sp?) and also instructed me to give her 81
        mg of aspirin every three days. She said she hoped
        that Moomoo would recover from the heart attack and
        that the medicine would help improve her heart's
        functioning.
        We gave her the aspirin and heart medicine thursday
        night and she ate a very small amount. That was the
        last time she really ate anything. I called the
        cardiologist on Sat morning and she prescribed an
        appetite stimulant, but told me that if Moomoo didn't
        start eating by Sunday am that we should put a feeding
        tube in because cats can develop liver disease if they
        don't eat for just two-three days.
        Moomoo was extremely lethargic and not herself at all;
        she hadn't meowed since the Monday night episode when
        she was meowing in pain.

        We ended up putting the feeding tube in sunday am,
        took her home and gave her two feedings. This just
        broke our hearts to see her with the collar she had to
        wear to make sure she didn't rip the tube out. But I
        felt like if we were going to give her every chance to
        live, we had to try the feeding tube or else another
        fatal problem --- the liver disease -- would develop.
        Sunday night she had an episode of open-mouth
        breathing and we rushed her to the emergency room
        where she went into cardiac arrest.
        I spoke to the cardiologist this week and she said she
        thinks that Moomoo's heart just couldn't recover from
        the heart attack last Monday as she had hoped it might
        and it eventually spiraled into a fatal arrhythmia
        which caused the cardiac arrest.

        From everything I've read, it doesn't seem like
        catching this condition early would have improved her
        prognosis much. But she didn't just have the HCM --
        she had all of these other things going on.

        Has anyone else heard of this? Could the thickening of
        the walls lead to a heart attack? Is a murmur often
        NOT detected until heart disease has already
        progressed?

        Thank you for reading moomoo's story. We miss her
        dearly. She was a sweet, affectionate cat.

        Amy





        --- Susan <somnamblst@...> wrote:
        > Great news Morticia,
        >
        > Can you tell us if Spazz is on an ACE-inhibitor? If
        > so
        > is he also on lasix?
        >
        > The reason I ask is because there is one
        > cardiologist
        > (Rush) who has reported improvement he has
        > attributed
        > to an ACE-inhibitor.
        >
        > "A recent report by Rush, et al. demonstrated a
        > reduction in wall thickness with the administration
        > of
        > enalapril to cats with HCM. This suggests a
        > potential
        > role for ACE-inhibitors in the treatment of HCM.
        > These drugs are generally safe and do play a role in
        > cases which are refractory or in which pleural
        > effusion is present. In asymptomatic patients, it
        > is
        > logical that the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone
        > system
        > is not pathologically activated, and hence
        > ACE-inhibitors would not be useful. The study
        > referred to argues that they may play a role,
        > however.
        > Further studies are being planned."
        >
        > Susan
        >
        >
        > --- Morticia <morticiaw666@...> wrote:
        > > Good Morning All,
        > >
        > >
        > > Just wanted to give you the great news we got
        > > yesterday. Spazz went
        > > in for his 6 month check up, and his heart has
        > > improved :-)
        > > The chamber on the left that was holding the blood
        > > in is now pumping
        > > the blood out more like it supposed to. Dr. Mark,
        > > did tell me that
        > > he is still a very sick little boy, but that he is
        > > very optimistic
        > > on his condition as it is now. The heart walls
        > that
        > > had started to
        > > thicken has now thinned out slightly. What
        > wonderful
        > > news to get on
        > > such a beautiful Maine day.
        > > I went in only hoping for nothing more then to be
        > > told that his
        > > heart hadnt gotten any worse, never hoped for
        > > anything more then
        > > that. But when he came out and give me this news,
        > I
        > > literally got
        > > goosebumps all over my body. I can not describe my
        >
        > > happiness right
        > > now. I also feel kind of guilty for having such
        > > great news, when I
        > > have been reading so many posts lately of so many
        > of
        > > you losing your
        > > beloved babies.
        > > I will keep all of you and your babies, here and
        > the
        > > angels in my
        > > prayers, and in my heart. Thank you all for the
        > > information I have
        > > gotten to help me understand this horrible disease
        > > better. I can not
        > > imagine if I had not found this site.
        > > God bless everyone and their wonderful furbabies.
        > >
        > >
        > > Your Friends,
        > > Morticia & Spazz
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > > --------------------~-->
        > > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70
        > >
        >
        http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/Zh0wlB/TM
        > >
        >
        --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
        > >
        > >
        > > Your reply will go to the author of this message.
        > If
        > > you feel your reply will benefit the entire group,
        > > please change the "To:" line to
        > > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
        > http://messenger.yahoo.com/
        >





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      • Linda Fischbach
        Susan, thanks for this info. Mittens was diagnosed with mild HCM in Dec 2001, and prescribed atenolol. His heart improved in the next 4 months, then stayed
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 4, 2004
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          Susan, thanks for this info. Mittens was diagnosed with mild HCM in Dec
          2001, and prescribed atenolol. His heart improved in the next 4 months,
          then stayed constant until Jan 2004 when he had fluids in his chest, and the
          cardiologist (a different one since our regular cardiologist wasn't there)
          said his heart had deterioated significantly. Enalapril (an Ace
          Inhibitor) and Lasix were added to his meds. At his recheck in April (I
          was expecting the worse) we were pleased to hear the cardiologist keep
          saying "looking good" as he did the ultrasound. Mittens' heart is back to
          where it was a year ago; the cardiologist has no idea what caused the
          problem in January. But maybe the added meds did the trick.

          Linda

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Susan" <somnamblst@...>
          To: "Morticia" <morticiaw666@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 9:38 AM
          Subject: Re: [FH] great news about Spazz


          > Great news Morticia,
          >
          > Can you tell us if Spazz is on an ACE-inhibitor? If so
          > is he also on lasix?
          >
          > The reason I ask is because there is one cardiologist
          > (Rush) who has reported improvement he has attributed
          > to an ACE-inhibitor.
          >
          > "A recent report by Rush, et al. demonstrated a
          > reduction in wall thickness with the administration of
          > enalapril to cats with HCM. This suggests a potential
          > role for ACE-inhibitors in the treatment of HCM.
          > These drugs are generally safe and do play a role in
          > cases which are refractory or in which pleural
          > effusion is present. In asymptomatic patients, it is
          > logical that the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system
          > is not pathologically activated, and hence
          > ACE-inhibitors would not be useful. The study
          > referred to argues that they may play a role, however.
          > Further studies are being planned."
          >
          > Susan
        • brinkett
          Hi, I m sorry to hear about Moomoo. Thickening of the walls can definitely lead to heart failure, in fact, thickened walls is one of the primary
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 4, 2004
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            Hi,

            I'm sorry to hear about Moomoo. Thickening of the walls can
            definitely lead to heart failure, in fact, thickened walls is one of
            the primary characteristics of a common form of heart disease called
            HCM (hyptertrophic cardiomyopathy).

            It is indeed possible that a cat may suddenly die or decline rapidly
            when no previous symptoms have been detected. Cats are really good
            at hiding symptoms, and while heart murmurs or gallop rhythms are
            usually heard, it is possible to have heart disease without a murmur
            or gallop rhythm being evident.

            As far as the two vets predicting life expectancy, this is very
            difficult to do. We have cats who join the group and die within a
            few days, and other cats who have been given a death sentence and
            who astound the experts by living much longer than they were
            expected to.

            You were obviously a very diligent and loving owner and did
            everything possible, including seeking a second opinion.

            Take care,
            Sarah.

            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, amy brightfield
            <amybrightfield@y...> wrote:
            > Hello everyone:
            >
            > My little black and tan tabby, moomoo, just passed
            > away this past Sunday from severe heart disease. She
            > was just eight years old. I wanted to tell you her
            > story in hopes that you all may glean some new
            > information about heart disease.
            > She was diagnosed with arrhythmic right ventricular
            > cardiomyopathy. What basically happened was that she
            > had what the cardiologist thinks was a heart attack
            > last Monday night. This caused an arrhythmia. She
            > never had any problems before this; I took her to a
            > yearly check-up and the vet never detected anything
            > abnormal. (Although now I tend to think maybe she
            > missed something?)
            >
            > She survived the h. attack on Monday night. THey did
            > bloodwork on her Tues. and an echocardiogram on
            > Wednesday which reported right and left ventricle
            > dilation; some thickening on the left wall and the
            > arrhythmia. That vet sent Moomoo home with diltiazem
            > (a calcium channel blocker) and told me she could live
            > up to five years.
            >
            > I wasn't keen on how this vet center had treated her,
            > so I took her to another cardiologist on Thursday who
            > did another EKG and an echo. She came in and told me
            > that Moomoo might only have days to live. I was in
            > total shock. Here I had just come from the other vet
            > who told me it might be years and that she didn't have
            > to come back for another echo for six months! But this
            > new cardiologist was definitely much smarter.
            > She explained to me that because Moomoo had so much
            > wrong with her heart; the dilation of the ventricles,
            > the thickening of the wall and the arrhythmia --- that
            > her condition was very hard to treat. Because of the
            > arrhythmia, she was at high risk for sudden cardiac
            > death and/or throwing a clot at any time. That's why
            > her prognosis was so poor.
            > But she did send Moomoo home with medicine --
            > Enapapril (Sp?) and also instructed me to give her 81
            > mg of aspirin every three days. She said she hoped
            > that Moomoo would recover from the heart attack and
            > that the medicine would help improve her heart's
            > functioning.
            > We gave her the aspirin and heart medicine thursday
            > night and she ate a very small amount. That was the
            > last time she really ate anything. I called the
            > cardiologist on Sat morning and she prescribed an
            > appetite stimulant, but told me that if Moomoo didn't
            > start eating by Sunday am that we should put a feeding
            > tube in because cats can develop liver disease if they
            > don't eat for just two-three days.
            > Moomoo was extremely lethargic and not herself at all;
            > she hadn't meowed since the Monday night episode when
            > she was meowing in pain.
            >
            > We ended up putting the feeding tube in sunday am,
            > took her home and gave her two feedings. This just
            > broke our hearts to see her with the collar she had to
            > wear to make sure she didn't rip the tube out. But I
            > felt like if we were going to give her every chance to
            > live, we had to try the feeding tube or else another
            > fatal problem --- the liver disease -- would develop.
            > Sunday night she had an episode of open-mouth
            > breathing and we rushed her to the emergency room
            > where she went into cardiac arrest.
            > I spoke to the cardiologist this week and she said she
            > thinks that Moomoo's heart just couldn't recover from
            > the heart attack last Monday as she had hoped it might
            > and it eventually spiraled into a fatal arrhythmia
            > which caused the cardiac arrest.
            >
            > From everything I've read, it doesn't seem like
            > catching this condition early would have improved her
            > prognosis much. But she didn't just have the HCM --
            > she had all of these other things going on.
            >
            > Has anyone else heard of this? Could the thickening of
            > the walls lead to a heart attack? Is a murmur often
            > NOT detected until heart disease has already
            > progressed?
            >
            > Thank you for reading moomoo's story. We miss her
            > dearly. She was a sweet, affectionate cat.
            >
            > Amy
          • Susan
            ... Linda, While it is certainly only anecdotal evidence it is heartening. I think when Dr. Atkins and others such as Bonagura are expressing skepticism at Dr.
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 4, 2004
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              --- Linda Fischbach <fischbl@...> wrote:
              > Susan, thanks for this info. Mittens was diagnosed
              > with mild HCM in Dec
              > 2001, and prescribed atenolol. His heart improved
              > in the next 4 months,
              > then stayed constant until Jan 2004 when he had
              > fluids in his chest, and the
              > cardiologist (a different one since our regular
              > cardiologist wasn't there)
              > said his heart had deterioated significantly.
              > Enalapril (an Ace
              > Inhibitor) and Lasix were added to his meds. At
              > his recheck in April (I
              > was expecting the worse) we were pleased to hear the
              > cardiologist keep
              > saying "looking good" as he did the ultrasound.
              > Mittens' heart is back to
              > where it was a year ago; the cardiologist has no
              > idea what caused the
              > problem in January. But maybe the added meds did
              > the trick.
              >
              > Linda

              Linda,

              While it is certainly only anecdotal evidence it is
              heartening. I think when Dr. Atkins and others such as
              Bonagura are expressing skepticism at Dr. Rush's
              report is because until a cat has reached a point
              where the Renin Angiotensis system (RAS) is activated
              the rationale for the ACE-inhibitor is not there. I
              think Dr. Atkins does not believe that an
              ACE-inhibitor can prevent renodeling and hypertrophy
              before the point when the RAS gets activated. In other
              words they do not think an ACE-inhibitor is indicated
              for asymptomatic patients.

              The way I understand RAS, is that if the kidneys
              "think" the body is losing pressure because they think
              the body is bleeding even though the loss of pressure
              is due to heart disease and not bleeding, it initiates
              the RAS so that the body has a better chance of
              surviving the bleeding. This is good if you are
              bleeding, very bad if you are not and the RAS
              activation is bad for the heart if it chronic as it is
              in CHF.

              The other thing that goes on in CHF that is bad for
              the heart is the Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) AKA
              "flight or fight" gets activated. This is good if a
              predator is chasing you, bad for the heart if it is
              chronic as it is in CHF.


              If anyone is interested in reading up on the
              ACE-inhibitor trial, it was called SOLVD (Studies Of
              Left Ventricular Dysfunction)

              Early Treatment with Enalapril Prevents Heart Failure
              and Myocardial Infarction and Improves Long-term
              Survival in Patients with Asymptomatic LVD: XSOLVD

              http://www.mednet.ca/html/pp03-091-3.htm

              Susan

              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Susan" <somnamblst@...>
              > To: "Morticia" <morticiaw666@...>;
              > <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 9:38 AM
              > Subject: Re: [FH] great news about Spazz
              >
              >
              > > Great news Morticia,
              > >
              > > Can you tell us if Spazz is on an ACE-inhibitor?
              > If so
              > > is he also on lasix?
              > >
              > > The reason I ask is because there is one
              > cardiologist
              > > (Rush) who has reported improvement he has
              > attributed
              > > to an ACE-inhibitor.
              > >
              > > "A recent report by Rush, et al. demonstrated a
              > > reduction in wall thickness with the
              > administration of
              > > enalapril to cats with HCM. This suggests a
              > potential
              > > role for ACE-inhibitors in the treatment of HCM.
              > > These drugs are generally safe and do play a role
              > in
              > > cases which are refractory or in which pleural
              > > effusion is present. In asymptomatic patients,
              > it is
              > > logical that the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone
              > system
              > > is not pathologically activated, and hence
              > > ACE-inhibitors would not be useful. The study
              > > referred to argues that they may play a role,
              > however.
              > > Further studies are being planned."
              > >
              > > Susan
              >
              >





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