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Atenolol

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  • Shane Fox Luper
    Hi everyone, Our cardiologist just cut down Teddy’s Atenolol to half a ¼ of a pill. That’s hard to do, but he’s been lethargic on the ¼ tablet. I meant
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 2, 2004
      Hi everyone,

      Our cardiologist just cut down Teddy’s Atenolol to half a ¼ of a pill.
      That’s hard to do, but he’s been lethargic on the ¼ tablet.

      I meant to ask him something. Teddy used to snore, but now that he’s on the
      Atenolol, he’s not snoring. What kind of effect could the drug have on the
      snoring or nasal passage? Anyone have a thought?



      Also, for you cat people, I started a yahoo group. It’s called “Cat Addicts
      Forum”. Like the name? LOL! Anyhow, here is a link to it if you’d like to
      join. I already have several members signed up and it seems to be pretty
      active. Here is the link.
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CatAdFor/?yguid=179615431

      No pressure to sign up, but I thought it might be something fun.



      I’ll look forward to your answers about the Atenolol.

      Shane



      _____

      From: William Draper [mailto:wedraper@...]
      Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:29 AM
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [FH] Holistic vs allopathic



      - "And I am sorry, Bill, but I must patently disagree with you and agree
      with Deena that many vets, GOOD vets, will prescribe for the symptom and not
      the problem"
      -- then they are practicing incorrectly. that is NOT the way we are trained
      to treat disease.

      - "We tried theophylline and made household changes--got rid of silica based
      litter, got a HEPA air purifier, etc. No help. He wanted to put her on
      prednisone. I'm sorry, but I won't take
      steroids and I will not put my cats on them"
      -- hmm, it would seem that this statement refutes my previous argument.
      however, steroids have been the "magic bullet" for many animals with many
      different diseases. for me it definitely won't be a first-line drug for
      most things (though it is essential in things like shock therapy and auto
      immune diseases), but i will probably adhere to the motto "never let an
      animal die without the benefit of steroids".

      - it has come to my attention that things i filed in my brain under "adjunct
      therapy" are actually pseudo-holistic remedies. things like omega fatty
      acids and taurine as nutritional supplements for certain diseases i agree
      with. my problem is people using herbal extracts with ingredients that make
      no sense. giving a cat with HCM a positive inotrope can not be a good idea.
      that goes against everything we know about the pathogenesis of the disease.
      however, giving an animal with an inflammatory problem omega fatty acids (as
      they can be incorporated into the cell membrane and replace the inflammatory
      precursors), now that makes sense to me. i WILL do some more reading into
      this, as it intrigues me. i reiterate that i am all for the best treatment
      options for my future clients. i just can't abide by the "my mom's best
      friend's hairstylist gave her cat substance A and it got over disease X".
      this is how holistic medicine seems to be propagate to me. we have had a
      few holistic vets come to school to give lectures, and they just don't
      impress me. their knowledge of basic disease processes is lacking, and they
      seem to have a standard remedy for every disease.

      bill
      dvm in 2005
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Marjorie Blaine
      To: HCM
      Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 3:54 AM
      Subject: [FH] Holistic vs allopathic


      Well, I suppose I'd like to throw my two cents into the fray. I've had
      cats
      since I was 6 years old--42 years now--and I also have a Master's Degree
      in
      Wildlife Biology which is not a veterinary degree but I have studied and
      taught human and animal anatomy and physiology and was accepted into vet
      school (more on that later). I've done research, understand about large
      sample sizes (one of my beefs is human studies which used 300 people but
      make gross generalizations). I've volunteered at a no-kill cat shelter
      for
      the past 7 years and seen all kinds of things. I've studied feline
      nutrition diligently the past several years. I'm not saying any of this
      to
      pat my own back but just so you'll know I'm not a novice cat person who
      has
      no idea about scientific research or veterinary science, etc.

      After feeding my cats Science Diet for years, vaccinating annually
      w/FVRCP,
      feleuk, and rabies and having lost a cat to vaccination site sarcoma, I
      have
      a little experience with this stuff. The ONLY treatment which seemed to
      truly help my cat was holistic. It gave us 4 months of good quality life
      with him that our oncologist and regular vet said we'd never have. I
      believe firmly in a high-quality diet (not Science Diet, Iams, Nutro, etc)
      and using holistic medicine knowing there are some cases where allopathic
      is
      necessary (eg my Max is on atenolol). I have a fabulous vet who practices
      both types of medicine altho she firmly believes holistic is the best way
      of
      treating an animal and human. Sarah mentions she likes to base treatment
      of
      her cat with a critical illness on scientific studies. Please correct me
      if
      I'm wrong but there are no definitive studies with large sample sizes that
      indicate atenolol is effective in cats. However, the majority of us use
      it
      to decrease the symptoms of this horrible disease. We know it won't cure
      them. I do agree there are holistic treatments which may work for humans
      but not animals--that's why you need a vet who KNOWS what they are doing
      when you are using holistic or homeopathic treatment. I would never
      undertake this on my own. I also don't believe there is always an
      "efficacious" way to deal with a particular illness. Genetically, we are
      all different and our bodies may react differently to different substances
      (same reason why I don't believe you can just throw estrogen at a
      peri-menopausal or menopausal woman--our hormone levels can be quite
      different and what one needs, another may not). And I am sorry, Bill, but
      I
      must patently disagree with you and agree with Deena that many vets, GOOD
      vets, will prescribe for the symptom and not the problem. Many good human
      doctors do the same. Example--I was working with a fantastic vet (I
      interviewed 20 vets before I settled on him--let's call him Dr. Mike). My
      elderly cat developed asthma. We tried theophylline and made household
      changes--got rid of silica based litter, got a HEPA air purifier, etc. No
      help. He wanted to put her on prednisone. I'm sorry, but I won't take
      steroids and I will not put my cats on them. He understood 150% and said,
      let's take this to the holistic vet (who is my current vet). We did;
      using
      herbs and a Standard Process supplement, my cat quit coughing--has not had
      an asthma attack in 5 years--and the first vet cannot believe how her
      lungs
      sound (quiet as can be) compared to how they started out sounding. Dr.
      Mike
      ( a top graduate of CSU by the way--a premier vet school) told me that
      sometimes you don't have a choice as much as you want to address the
      underlying cause. I am not saying they don't give it their best shot but
      even in advanced human medicine sometimes there's just no answer. He also
      told me that MOST vets have NO training on nutrition. I understand that
      now
      some veterinary schools are starting some nutrition training but anytime I
      hear a vet recommending Science Diet--forget it--he doesn't know about
      feline nutrition. Sorry....it's the truth. You can compare it to you
      eating good, whole, fresh foods (i.e. preparing meals from scratch with
      good
      ingredients) as opposed to eating Hamburger Helper with all of its
      preservatives.

      If you want some info about HCM cats that have been cured, you might want
      to
      check "The Whole Cat Journal". I don't have the volume here at work but
      can
      provide you with it or fax you the article. It provides names of
      veterinarians who have cured HCM with homeopathic medicine and how they
      did
      it and how, most definitely, it is NOT one size fits all. Bill, a truly
      great vet is open to using whatever modalities to treat their patients.
      Please, please, don't let vet school brainwash you. You can be an awesome
      allopathic vet (like Dr. Mike and my current vet) and still also practice
      holistic medicine. They can work together. I also don't vaccinate my
      cats
      anymore. My holistic vet said (and this was agreed with by Dr. Mike)
      "give
      them their FVRCP when babies--the first dose and the booster" and let
      their
      own immune system kick in after that. Of course we vaccinate children.
      But
      we don't vaccinate them ANNUALLY with the same thing year after year after
      year. And I promise you giving cats FVRCP, feleuk, AND rabies all at one
      time is severely compromising their immune system. I also must agree on
      switching cats from a poor quality, preservative enhanced commercial diet
      to
      a raw diet. The results are amazing. My holistic vet said it's one of
      the
      best treatments for IBD. And guess what? When I first started going to my
      holistic vet, she was not a proponent of raw diets for the same reason
      many
      mentioned in this group (salmonella). I provided her with a lot of
      literature but she was still skeptical. Then she went to a conference,
      joined an egroup on raw diets, began feeding her cats AND dogs raw and now
      she is a top proponent of raw diets. She has a 19 year old cat with
      diabetes at her clinic. Started feeding raw and was able to substantially
      reduce her insulin. However, if you don't want to feed raw (properly
      supplemented, of course), you can either lightly cook the meats OR you can
      feed one of the higher quality canned foods made from USDA approved human
      grade meats (e.g. Wellness or Azmira to name only two). For anyone who is
      interested, there is a great book entitled "The Nature of Animal Healing"
      written by a traditionally trained vet, Dr. Martin Goldstein. It tells of
      his path to natural feeding and treatment. I highly recommend it for
      aspiring vets. AAFCO does not ensure optimum nutrition. Some treats
      state
      they meet AAFCO but I wouldn't feed my cat a diet of them. Many AAFCO
      stamped foods contain SALT. Why? Cats do not need a diet supplemented
      with
      salt. And for our HCM cats, that's the last thing we need. But your
      point
      is well taken that it sets some sort of standard for those who don't
      really
      look at feline nutrition.

      I know how vets are trained. I was accepted into vet school but spent a
      summer working with a vet and I just didn't have the emotional strength at
      21 to deal with the people who abused animals, animals being euthanized,
      cats being declawed, etc. I didn't think I could tolerate alot of what
      vets
      see--maybe I could have. So I will say, I do know the courses you have to
      take and as I've said, I've taught human and animal A&P at the college
      level. Of course vet students study when and why disease starts. But
      sometimes I think there's a broader picture then just focusing on a
      particular organ (for instance) which might be showing symptoms of
      illness.
      For non-genetic diseases, I think the bigger picture goes to the immune
      system--when it is in balance and maximized, the body systems are as well.
      Since I started treating my own body better and more holistically--eating
      whole, natural foods--no colds, no flu, no illnesses; I'm in much better
      physical shape at 48 than probably 90% of 20 year olds and definitely
      better
      than I was when I was younger. My cats are the same--oh the amazing
      improvement in their coats, their teeth, their health--everything since we
      changed to a better diet and started using holistic supplements. We
      rescued
      our oldest cat at 4 weeks and she has travelled the world with us and is
      now
      20; her blood work just done showed everything in normal range and she is
      just steaming along (knock on wood) maintaining her lifelong weight, eats
      right, has the stool of a young cat--she's amazing. Since she has lived
      longer than any other cat I've had and she was switched to a more holistic
      way of life when she was 10, I have to believe we're doing something
      right.

      My main point in all of this is--we each need to do what we feel is best
      for
      our beloved companions. If you only want to treat your cat
      allopathicly--please, do; I respect that 100% and I don't feel you are
      less
      concerned about your cat than I am about mine. But I have felt in reading
      many threads that those of us who use holistic or homeopathic treatments
      are
      thought to be using something akin to voodoo and we must not really care
      about our cats if we are not treating them with the tried and true
      methods.
      Let's just be open-minded to each other. I doubt very seriously that Mr.
      Pepe would have lived as long with as good a quality of life if it weren't
      for his treatment. And my Maxie just had his check up (he was diagnosed
      9/03) and his echo was stable; his bp, heart rate, EKG, blood work, xray
      all
      "beautiful". We are blessed and not only do I thank my wonderful holistic
      vet and cardiologist who work together but I thank God because he gave
      these
      people these talents.

      BTW, Bill, even my cardiologist who does not practice holistic medicine,
      has
      worked fully with my holistic vet and supported all the holistic
      treatments
      we give Max; likewise, my holistic vet was 100% supportive of adding
      atenolol. Great vets--open-minded.

      Best of luck to you as you pursue your career--I know you must be very
      dedicated to helping animals to have chosen this path--it is truly a
      career
      of sacrifice of self on behalf of animal companions. And I pray all of
      you
      with HCM cats will have so many many more joyous moments with them.

      Marjorie
      Sitka, Teddi, Gus, & Max




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