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[FH] Re: My Mystic

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  • diane
    ... I agree. Kearra had a very faint murmur that actually went away over time, and was gone for at least 2-3 years before her death. If the vet had never
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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      At 8:32 PM +0000 6/1/04, peteycat9 wrote:
      > > And, I also read that HCM can strike in families.
      >> So, I have 4 6wk
      >> old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them
      >> tested? Will a
      >> simple xray show anything?
      >
      >"I would watch for murmurs and have any kittens with
      >murmurs ultrasounded. Not cheap but the only way to
      >tell. Xrays typically are not informative."
      >
      >I must also add that it IS possible for a kitten or cat to have HCM
      >WITHOUT a heart murmur! This was certainly the case with the cat we
      >lost at a very young age. As explained in my previous posting, my
      >cat Checkers didn't even have a murmur when he was dying. I


      I agree. Kearra had a very faint murmur that actually went away over
      time, and was gone for at least 2-3 years before her death. If the
      vet had never caught the murmur early, we would have never treated
      her and keep up with the ultrasounds. It's really the only way to
      tell.

      You may want to look into other vets as well. :-/

      I'm very sorry about Mystic, you are an angel for taking in her and
      her kittens.


      Diane
    • William Draper
      - He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid, and suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like did she sneak out and maybe get hit by a car?
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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        - "He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid, and
        suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like "did she
        sneak out and maybe get hit by a car? Did she get into antifreeze or
        tylenol? Did someone kick her?" and on and on."
        -- now that's not fair. with the power of hindsight, those questions may be silly. but you have to realize that as doctors we have to make a list of differential diagnoses in our heads given the presenting signs. those questions he was asking were to cross diseases off of that list in his head.

        - "I even asked about CHF, and he said he was too young to have these types of heart problems"
        -- that wasn't a good answer from him. but, in his defense, the mean age for HCM is about 5 years and 87% of cases are male. but, the fact is, all ages, sexes, and breeds can get HCM; and he definitely should have considered it.

        - "And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4 6wk old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested?"
        -- the current thinking is that HCM is hereditary on some level (mostly because there is NO other explanation for it). you will definitely want to have the kittens checked out. radiography is unreliable, you need to have and echocardiogram of each heart to rule out HCM. contact your nearest boarded cardiologist to find out what age they suggest.

        bill
        dvm in 2005
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Cath
        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:29 PM
        Subject: [FH] My Mystic


        Hi

        I am new. I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young traditional
        siamese, on Sunday morning. She was FINE that night, (and into the
        early morning), but, when I awoke, I found her lethargic and panting
        heavily. Rushed to the ER vet where she was immediately taken from
        me and put on oxygen. The Vet came out shortly and said she wasn't
        going to make it. He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid, and
        suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like "did she
        sneak out and maybe get hit by a car? Did she get into antifreeze or
        tylenol? Did someone kick her?" and on and on. My answers to all
        were an emphatic NO! I even asked about CHF, and he said he was too
        young to have these types of heart problems. My friend (that I woke
        up to meet me there), has a 5yr old SHD that was diagnosed with HCM
        when she was 2.5 yrs. She even brought that up to the vet. He said
        that it was rare for a young cat to get that...... JEEEEEEEZ I did
        all kinds of internet research that night, and found many informative
        sites re: HCM, and she had so many of the symptoms!

        A little background on Mystic. I do cat rescue, and she was pulled
        from a very hideous shelter 5 weeks ago this past Saturday, with 4
        newborn kittens. These babies are now 6 weeks old today. When I
        first brought her home, she panted a couple of times, but, I do know
        that cats pant when stressed, so, I didnt give it much thought except
        to comfort her. But, from what Ive now read, she was trying to take
        in more oxygen :( But, she had no episodes. She played and ate very
        well, and took care of the growing kittens. Nothing seemed amiss til
        I found her sunday morning, very near death. The guilt is killing me.
        And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4 6wk
        old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested? Will a
        simple xray show anything? I need advice.

        Thank you for being here, and thank you Joann for telling me about
        this group

        Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Cath
        - Hi Bill I wasn t trying to be unfair. This was an ER vet, not my vet. Even after I asked about heart disease and he said she was too young, he never once
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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          -
          Hi Bill

          I wasn't trying to be unfair. This was an ER vet, not my vet. Even
          after I asked about heart disease and he said she was too young, he
          never once brought it up again. He kept harping on about tylenol
          poisoning or FIV/FeLV. Once he dismissed heart disease, it was a
          done subject with him. I realize that he was "trying", but, at that
          moment in time I was a total basket case - my beautiful cat was dying
          at that very minute. I personally thought it incredulous that once I
          said no, she couldn't have gotten into tylenol, hit by a car, kicked,
          etc, he would have continued on a different avenue........ her heart
          perhaps. Seriously, he mentioned her nails and said she was
          apparently not an outdoor cat at least 5 times. Again, I wasn't in
          the best possible frame of mind right then, but, the scenerio plays
          over and over in my mind. She was too far gone by the time I found
          her to save her, but, maybe I'm being selfish, but, I would have
          liked some answers - or at least a semblance of one. This vet was
          also much much older than the vet I use....



          Thank you for your information on the kits. I will talk to my vet
          and find out about a feline cardiologist in my area. :)

          Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL



          > -- now that's not fair. with the power of hindsight, those
          questions may be silly. but you have to realize that as doctors we
          have to make a list of differential diagnoses in our heads given the
          presenting signs. those questions he was asking were to cross
          diseases off of that list in his head.
          >
          > - "I even asked about CHF, and he said he was too young to have
          these types of heart problems"
          > -- that wasn't a good answer from him. but, in his defense, the
          mean age for HCM is about 5 years and 87% of cases are male. but,
          the fact is, all ages, sexes, and breeds can get HCM; and he
          definitely should have considered it.
          >
          > - "And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4
          6wk old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested?"
          > -- the current thinking is that HCM is hereditary on some level
          (mostly because there is NO other explanation for it). you will
          definitely want to have the kittens checked out. radiography is
          unreliable, you need to have and echocardiogram of each heart to rule
          out HCM. contact your nearest boarded cardiologist to find out what
          age they suggest.
          >
          > bill
          > dvm in 2005
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Cath
          > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:29 PM
          > Subject: [FH] My Mystic
          >
          >
          > Hi
          >
          > I am new. I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young traditional
          > siamese, on Sunday morning. She was FINE that night, (and into
          the
          > early morning), but, when I awoke, I found her lethargic and
          panting
          > heavily. Rushed to the ER vet where she was immediately taken
          from
          > me and put on oxygen. The Vet came out shortly and said she
          wasn't
          > going to make it. He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid,
          and
          > suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like "did she
          > sneak out and maybe get hit by a car? Did she get into
          antifreeze or
          > tylenol? Did someone kick her?" and on and on. My answers to
          all
          > were an emphatic NO! I even asked about CHF, and he said he was
          too
          > young to have these types of heart problems. My friend (that I
          woke
          > up to meet me there), has a 5yr old SHD that was diagnosed with
          HCM
          > when she was 2.5 yrs. She even brought that up to the vet. He
          said
          > that it was rare for a young cat to get that...... JEEEEEEEZ I
          did
          > all kinds of internet research that night, and found many
          informative
          > sites re: HCM, and she had so many of the symptoms!
          >
          > A little background on Mystic. I do cat rescue, and she was
          pulled
          > from a very hideous shelter 5 weeks ago this past Saturday, with
          4
          > newborn kittens. These babies are now 6 weeks old today. When I
          > first brought her home, she panted a couple of times, but, I do
          know
          > that cats pant when stressed, so, I didnt give it much thought
          except
          > to comfort her. But, from what Ive now read, she was trying to
          take
          > in more oxygen :( But, she had no episodes. She played and ate
          very
          > well, and took care of the growing kittens. Nothing seemed amiss
          til
          > I found her sunday morning, very near death. The guilt is
          killing me.
          > And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4
          6wk
          > old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested? Will a
          > simple xray show anything? I need advice.
          >
          > Thank you for being here, and thank you Joann for telling me
          about
          > this group
          >
          > Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL
          >
          >
          >
          > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel
          your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:"
          line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/
          >
          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Cath
          Thank you Diane Unfortunately, this was an ER vet - not one I have ever seen before at that particular clinic, in the times I have had to use their services.
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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            Thank you Diane

            Unfortunately, this was an ER vet - not one I have ever seen before
            at that particular clinic, in the times I have had to use their
            services. Being early on a sunday morning, it's the "take what you
            can get" thing :(

            I miss the sweet Mystic more than I can say. The kittens are doing
            ok, and I am supplementing them with KMR, as they have been eating
            solid food for almost 2 weeks now. But, it's the comfort nursing and
            the tender care of their mom that they miss most. One of my young
            males has proven to be an excellent "uncle", and since Sunday, has
            kept them clean and provided them with cuddles - he is even allowing
            them to suckle, of course, once they figure out the spigot is dry,
            they stop LOL. It's good for them, and good for him. I believe Kain
            will be a tremendous asset in the raising of these kits.

            Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL




            > I agree. Kearra had a very faint murmur that actually went away
            over
            > time, and was gone for at least 2-3 years before her death. If the
            > vet had never caught the murmur early, we would have never treated
            > her and keep up with the ultrasounds. It's really the only way to
            > tell.
            >
            > You may want to look into other vets as well. :-/
            >
            > I'm very sorry about Mystic, you are an angel for taking in her and
            > her kittens.
            >
            >
            > Diane
          • diane
            I don t know if she s still here, but there was someone who faced a similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive she managed to get a
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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              I don't know if she's still here, but there was someone who faced a
              similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive
              she managed to get a good deal from a vet to do them all. I also
              believe she was from down under.

              Anyone remember more?


              Diane
            • diane
              ... I agree! I once opted for surgery on my first cat and it didn t go well. It was at a different vet, although it was recommended by our vet. I had never
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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                At 11:31 PM +0000 6/1/04, Cath wrote:
                >Thank you Diane
                >
                >Unfortunately, this was an ER vet - not one I have ever seen before
                >at that particular clinic, in the times I have had to use their
                >services. Being early on a sunday morning, it's the "take what you
                >can get" thing :( \

                I agree! I once opted for surgery on my first cat and it didn't go
                well. It was at a different vet, although it was recommended by our
                vet. I had never gone through this before, I didn't feel the vet had
                good people skills although he seemed fine with Tiger, and I made
                assumptions based on what I was familiar with. Needless to say, I had
                visted Tiger to bring her home on Saturday morning, it didn't go well
                so I left her there (again), and had no idea that they performed such
                surgeries with no 24 hour care. I got a call at 11am Sunday to say
                she hadn't made the night and was furious that no one checked in for
                such a long period of time. Lesson learned. :(

                You remind me that I really need to place phone numbers & directions
                to both emergency vets by the phones. We do have a vet close by that
                I tried to go to when a neighborhood cat was hit by a car, but they
                closed at 6 and I couldn't get a cell signal in their parking lot.

                It's so hard when you're in panic mode to figure out the right thing to do!

                >I miss the sweet Mystic more than I can say.

                No doubt! I'm sure we can all relate to that. :(


                >The kittens are doing
                >ok, and I am supplementing them with KMR, as they have been eating
                >solid food for almost 2 weeks now. But, it's the comfort nursing and
                >the tender care of their mom that they miss most. One of my young
                >males has proven to be an excellent "uncle", and since Sunday, has
                >kept them clean and provided them with cuddles - he is even allowing
                >them to suckle, of course, once they figure out the spigot is dry,
                >they stop LOL. It's good for them, and good for him. I believe Kain
                >will be a tremendous asset in the raising of these kits.

                Hats off to Kain! Sounds like you have an angel herd, as well as yourself. ;)


                Diane
              • Linda Fischbach
                That may have been Catherine (in Australia) who has a Mom and 4 (?) kittens with heart problems. She posted here a little while ago. Linda ... From: diane
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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                  That may have been Catherine (in Australia) who has a Mom and 4 (?) kittens
                  with heart problems. She posted here a little while ago.

                  Linda

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "diane" <diane@...>
                  To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:43 PM
                  Subject: Re: [FH] My Mystic


                  > I don't know if she's still here, but there was someone who faced a
                  > similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive
                  > she managed to get a good deal from a vet to do them all. I also
                  > believe she was from down under.
                  >
                  > Anyone remember more?
                  >
                  >
                  > Diane
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                  will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                  feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • diane
                  See? I was going to say Cathy but it was just too weird for both to have the same name. :) Diane
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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                    See? I was going to say Cathy but it was just too weird for both to
                    have the same name. :)

                    Diane


                    At 8:13 PM -0400 6/1/04, Linda Fischbach wrote:
                    >That may have been Catherine (in Australia) who has a Mom and 4 (?) kittens
                    >with heart problems. She posted here a little while ago.
                    >
                    >Linda
                    >
                    >----- Original Message -----
                    >From: "diane" <diane@...>
                    >To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:43 PM
                    >Subject: Re: [FH] My Mystic
                    >
                    >
                    >> I don't know if she's still here, but there was someone who faced a
                    >> similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive
                    >> she managed to get a good deal from a vet to do them all. I also
                    >> believe she was from down under.
                    >>
                    >> Anyone remember more?
                    >>
                    >>
                    > > Diane
                    >>
                    > >
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