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Re: [FH] My Mystic

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  • Susan
    ... I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young ... her ... and he ... Not too young, but not a breed (Maine Coon, Ragdoll, American Shorthair) or sex (male
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 1 11:27 AM
      --- Cath <cath_fl1@...> wrote:
      I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young
      > traditional
      > siamese, on Sunday morning. when I awoke, I found
      her
      > lethargic and panting
      > heavily. He had done a thoracentisis and
      > pulled fluid, and
      > suggested a pneumothorax... I even asked about CHF,
      and he
      > said he was too
      > young to have these types of heart problems.

      Not too young, but not a breed (Maine Coon, Ragdoll,
      American Shorthair) or sex (male rather than
      female)that is most commonly affected at a young age.

      It is hard to say why the vet was focused on trauma or
      poisoning, perhaps the appearance of the fluid from
      the thoracentisis may have suggested a cause other
      than HCM, hence the questions. Are you by any chance
      in a heartworm endemic area?

      The
      > guilt is killing me.


      We all beat ourselves up with what ifs. The reality is
      that cats are so stoic and they are expert at hiding
      disease.

      > And, I also read that HCM can strike in families.
      > So, I have 4 6wk
      > old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them
      > tested? Will a
      > simple xray show anything?

      I would watch for murmurs and have any kittens with
      murmurs ultrasounded. Not cheap but the only way to
      tell. Xrays typically are not informative

      Susan




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    • peteycat9
      ... I would watch for murmurs and have any kittens with murmurs ultrasounded. Not cheap but the only way to tell. Xrays typically are not informative. I must
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 1 1:32 PM
        > And, I also read that HCM can strike in families.
        > So, I have 4 6wk
        > old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them
        > tested? Will a
        > simple xray show anything?

        "I would watch for murmurs and have any kittens with
        murmurs ultrasounded. Not cheap but the only way to
        tell. Xrays typically are not informative."

        I must also add that it IS possible for a kitten or cat to have HCM
        WITHOUT a heart murmur! This was certainly the case with the cat we
        lost at a very young age. As explained in my previous posting, my
        cat Checkers didn't even have a murmur when he was dying. I really
        recommend an ultrasound done, even if there are no symptoms or
        unusual heart sounds. Obviously, the test is expensive and having it
        done on all the litter mates would be a huge expense. But if you
        decide to keep any of the babies for yourself, then by all means, you
        may consider getting it done. I'm so sorry about Mystic. I wish you
        the very best with her kittens. I hope and pray that they are
        completely healthy.
        Love,
        Joann
      • diane
        ... I agree. Kearra had a very faint murmur that actually went away over time, and was gone for at least 2-3 years before her death. If the vet had never
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 1 2:21 PM
          At 8:32 PM +0000 6/1/04, peteycat9 wrote:
          > > And, I also read that HCM can strike in families.
          >> So, I have 4 6wk
          >> old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them
          >> tested? Will a
          >> simple xray show anything?
          >
          >"I would watch for murmurs and have any kittens with
          >murmurs ultrasounded. Not cheap but the only way to
          >tell. Xrays typically are not informative."
          >
          >I must also add that it IS possible for a kitten or cat to have HCM
          >WITHOUT a heart murmur! This was certainly the case with the cat we
          >lost at a very young age. As explained in my previous posting, my
          >cat Checkers didn't even have a murmur when he was dying. I


          I agree. Kearra had a very faint murmur that actually went away over
          time, and was gone for at least 2-3 years before her death. If the
          vet had never caught the murmur early, we would have never treated
          her and keep up with the ultrasounds. It's really the only way to
          tell.

          You may want to look into other vets as well. :-/

          I'm very sorry about Mystic, you are an angel for taking in her and
          her kittens.


          Diane
        • William Draper
          - He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid, and suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like did she sneak out and maybe get hit by a car?
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 1 2:27 PM
            - "He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid, and
            suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like "did she
            sneak out and maybe get hit by a car? Did she get into antifreeze or
            tylenol? Did someone kick her?" and on and on."
            -- now that's not fair. with the power of hindsight, those questions may be silly. but you have to realize that as doctors we have to make a list of differential diagnoses in our heads given the presenting signs. those questions he was asking were to cross diseases off of that list in his head.

            - "I even asked about CHF, and he said he was too young to have these types of heart problems"
            -- that wasn't a good answer from him. but, in his defense, the mean age for HCM is about 5 years and 87% of cases are male. but, the fact is, all ages, sexes, and breeds can get HCM; and he definitely should have considered it.

            - "And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4 6wk old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested?"
            -- the current thinking is that HCM is hereditary on some level (mostly because there is NO other explanation for it). you will definitely want to have the kittens checked out. radiography is unreliable, you need to have and echocardiogram of each heart to rule out HCM. contact your nearest boarded cardiologist to find out what age they suggest.

            bill
            dvm in 2005
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Cath
            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:29 PM
            Subject: [FH] My Mystic


            Hi

            I am new. I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young traditional
            siamese, on Sunday morning. She was FINE that night, (and into the
            early morning), but, when I awoke, I found her lethargic and panting
            heavily. Rushed to the ER vet where she was immediately taken from
            me and put on oxygen. The Vet came out shortly and said she wasn't
            going to make it. He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid, and
            suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like "did she
            sneak out and maybe get hit by a car? Did she get into antifreeze or
            tylenol? Did someone kick her?" and on and on. My answers to all
            were an emphatic NO! I even asked about CHF, and he said he was too
            young to have these types of heart problems. My friend (that I woke
            up to meet me there), has a 5yr old SHD that was diagnosed with HCM
            when she was 2.5 yrs. She even brought that up to the vet. He said
            that it was rare for a young cat to get that...... JEEEEEEEZ I did
            all kinds of internet research that night, and found many informative
            sites re: HCM, and she had so many of the symptoms!

            A little background on Mystic. I do cat rescue, and she was pulled
            from a very hideous shelter 5 weeks ago this past Saturday, with 4
            newborn kittens. These babies are now 6 weeks old today. When I
            first brought her home, she panted a couple of times, but, I do know
            that cats pant when stressed, so, I didnt give it much thought except
            to comfort her. But, from what Ive now read, she was trying to take
            in more oxygen :( But, she had no episodes. She played and ate very
            well, and took care of the growing kittens. Nothing seemed amiss til
            I found her sunday morning, very near death. The guilt is killing me.
            And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4 6wk
            old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested? Will a
            simple xray show anything? I need advice.

            Thank you for being here, and thank you Joann for telling me about
            this group

            Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Cath
            - Hi Bill I wasn t trying to be unfair. This was an ER vet, not my vet. Even after I asked about heart disease and he said she was too young, he never once
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 1 4:21 PM
              -
              Hi Bill

              I wasn't trying to be unfair. This was an ER vet, not my vet. Even
              after I asked about heart disease and he said she was too young, he
              never once brought it up again. He kept harping on about tylenol
              poisoning or FIV/FeLV. Once he dismissed heart disease, it was a
              done subject with him. I realize that he was "trying", but, at that
              moment in time I was a total basket case - my beautiful cat was dying
              at that very minute. I personally thought it incredulous that once I
              said no, she couldn't have gotten into tylenol, hit by a car, kicked,
              etc, he would have continued on a different avenue........ her heart
              perhaps. Seriously, he mentioned her nails and said she was
              apparently not an outdoor cat at least 5 times. Again, I wasn't in
              the best possible frame of mind right then, but, the scenerio plays
              over and over in my mind. She was too far gone by the time I found
              her to save her, but, maybe I'm being selfish, but, I would have
              liked some answers - or at least a semblance of one. This vet was
              also much much older than the vet I use....



              Thank you for your information on the kits. I will talk to my vet
              and find out about a feline cardiologist in my area. :)

              Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL



              > -- now that's not fair. with the power of hindsight, those
              questions may be silly. but you have to realize that as doctors we
              have to make a list of differential diagnoses in our heads given the
              presenting signs. those questions he was asking were to cross
              diseases off of that list in his head.
              >
              > - "I even asked about CHF, and he said he was too young to have
              these types of heart problems"
              > -- that wasn't a good answer from him. but, in his defense, the
              mean age for HCM is about 5 years and 87% of cases are male. but,
              the fact is, all ages, sexes, and breeds can get HCM; and he
              definitely should have considered it.
              >
              > - "And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4
              6wk old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested?"
              > -- the current thinking is that HCM is hereditary on some level
              (mostly because there is NO other explanation for it). you will
              definitely want to have the kittens checked out. radiography is
              unreliable, you need to have and echocardiogram of each heart to rule
              out HCM. contact your nearest boarded cardiologist to find out what
              age they suggest.
              >
              > bill
              > dvm in 2005
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Cath
              > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:29 PM
              > Subject: [FH] My Mystic
              >
              >
              > Hi
              >
              > I am new. I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young traditional
              > siamese, on Sunday morning. She was FINE that night, (and into
              the
              > early morning), but, when I awoke, I found her lethargic and
              panting
              > heavily. Rushed to the ER vet where she was immediately taken
              from
              > me and put on oxygen. The Vet came out shortly and said she
              wasn't
              > going to make it. He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid,
              and
              > suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like "did she
              > sneak out and maybe get hit by a car? Did she get into
              antifreeze or
              > tylenol? Did someone kick her?" and on and on. My answers to
              all
              > were an emphatic NO! I even asked about CHF, and he said he was
              too
              > young to have these types of heart problems. My friend (that I
              woke
              > up to meet me there), has a 5yr old SHD that was diagnosed with
              HCM
              > when she was 2.5 yrs. She even brought that up to the vet. He
              said
              > that it was rare for a young cat to get that...... JEEEEEEEZ I
              did
              > all kinds of internet research that night, and found many
              informative
              > sites re: HCM, and she had so many of the symptoms!
              >
              > A little background on Mystic. I do cat rescue, and she was
              pulled
              > from a very hideous shelter 5 weeks ago this past Saturday, with
              4
              > newborn kittens. These babies are now 6 weeks old today. When I
              > first brought her home, she panted a couple of times, but, I do
              know
              > that cats pant when stressed, so, I didnt give it much thought
              except
              > to comfort her. But, from what Ive now read, she was trying to
              take
              > in more oxygen :( But, she had no episodes. She played and ate
              very
              > well, and took care of the growing kittens. Nothing seemed amiss
              til
              > I found her sunday morning, very near death. The guilt is
              killing me.
              > And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4
              6wk
              > old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested? Will a
              > simple xray show anything? I need advice.
              >
              > Thank you for being here, and thank you Joann for telling me
              about
              > this group
              >
              > Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL
              >
              >
              >
              > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel
              your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:"
              line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----------
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Cath
              Thank you Diane Unfortunately, this was an ER vet - not one I have ever seen before at that particular clinic, in the times I have had to use their services.
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 1 4:31 PM
                Thank you Diane

                Unfortunately, this was an ER vet - not one I have ever seen before
                at that particular clinic, in the times I have had to use their
                services. Being early on a sunday morning, it's the "take what you
                can get" thing :(

                I miss the sweet Mystic more than I can say. The kittens are doing
                ok, and I am supplementing them with KMR, as they have been eating
                solid food for almost 2 weeks now. But, it's the comfort nursing and
                the tender care of their mom that they miss most. One of my young
                males has proven to be an excellent "uncle", and since Sunday, has
                kept them clean and provided them with cuddles - he is even allowing
                them to suckle, of course, once they figure out the spigot is dry,
                they stop LOL. It's good for them, and good for him. I believe Kain
                will be a tremendous asset in the raising of these kits.

                Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL




                > I agree. Kearra had a very faint murmur that actually went away
                over
                > time, and was gone for at least 2-3 years before her death. If the
                > vet had never caught the murmur early, we would have never treated
                > her and keep up with the ultrasounds. It's really the only way to
                > tell.
                >
                > You may want to look into other vets as well. :-/
                >
                > I'm very sorry about Mystic, you are an angel for taking in her and
                > her kittens.
                >
                >
                > Diane
              • diane
                I don t know if she s still here, but there was someone who faced a similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive she managed to get a
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 1 4:43 PM
                  I don't know if she's still here, but there was someone who faced a
                  similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive
                  she managed to get a good deal from a vet to do them all. I also
                  believe she was from down under.

                  Anyone remember more?


                  Diane
                • diane
                  ... I agree! I once opted for surgery on my first cat and it didn t go well. It was at a different vet, although it was recommended by our vet. I had never
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 1 4:56 PM
                    At 11:31 PM +0000 6/1/04, Cath wrote:
                    >Thank you Diane
                    >
                    >Unfortunately, this was an ER vet - not one I have ever seen before
                    >at that particular clinic, in the times I have had to use their
                    >services. Being early on a sunday morning, it's the "take what you
                    >can get" thing :( \

                    I agree! I once opted for surgery on my first cat and it didn't go
                    well. It was at a different vet, although it was recommended by our
                    vet. I had never gone through this before, I didn't feel the vet had
                    good people skills although he seemed fine with Tiger, and I made
                    assumptions based on what I was familiar with. Needless to say, I had
                    visted Tiger to bring her home on Saturday morning, it didn't go well
                    so I left her there (again), and had no idea that they performed such
                    surgeries with no 24 hour care. I got a call at 11am Sunday to say
                    she hadn't made the night and was furious that no one checked in for
                    such a long period of time. Lesson learned. :(

                    You remind me that I really need to place phone numbers & directions
                    to both emergency vets by the phones. We do have a vet close by that
                    I tried to go to when a neighborhood cat was hit by a car, but they
                    closed at 6 and I couldn't get a cell signal in their parking lot.

                    It's so hard when you're in panic mode to figure out the right thing to do!

                    >I miss the sweet Mystic more than I can say.

                    No doubt! I'm sure we can all relate to that. :(


                    >The kittens are doing
                    >ok, and I am supplementing them with KMR, as they have been eating
                    >solid food for almost 2 weeks now. But, it's the comfort nursing and
                    >the tender care of their mom that they miss most. One of my young
                    >males has proven to be an excellent "uncle", and since Sunday, has
                    >kept them clean and provided them with cuddles - he is even allowing
                    >them to suckle, of course, once they figure out the spigot is dry,
                    >they stop LOL. It's good for them, and good for him. I believe Kain
                    >will be a tremendous asset in the raising of these kits.

                    Hats off to Kain! Sounds like you have an angel herd, as well as yourself. ;)


                    Diane
                  • Linda Fischbach
                    That may have been Catherine (in Australia) who has a Mom and 4 (?) kittens with heart problems. She posted here a little while ago. Linda ... From: diane
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 1 5:13 PM
                      That may have been Catherine (in Australia) who has a Mom and 4 (?) kittens
                      with heart problems. She posted here a little while ago.

                      Linda

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "diane" <diane@...>
                      To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:43 PM
                      Subject: Re: [FH] My Mystic


                      > I don't know if she's still here, but there was someone who faced a
                      > similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive
                      > she managed to get a good deal from a vet to do them all. I also
                      > believe she was from down under.
                      >
                      > Anyone remember more?
                      >
                      >
                      > Diane
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                      will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                      feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • diane
                      See? I was going to say Cathy but it was just too weird for both to have the same name. :) Diane
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 1 5:18 PM
                        See? I was going to say Cathy but it was just too weird for both to
                        have the same name. :)

                        Diane


                        At 8:13 PM -0400 6/1/04, Linda Fischbach wrote:
                        >That may have been Catherine (in Australia) who has a Mom and 4 (?) kittens
                        >with heart problems. She posted here a little while ago.
                        >
                        >Linda
                        >
                        >----- Original Message -----
                        >From: "diane" <diane@...>
                        >To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:43 PM
                        >Subject: Re: [FH] My Mystic
                        >
                        >
                        >> I don't know if she's still here, but there was someone who faced a
                        >> similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive
                        >> she managed to get a good deal from a vet to do them all. I also
                        >> believe she was from down under.
                        >>
                        >> Anyone remember more?
                        >>
                        >>
                        > > Diane
                        >>
                        > >
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