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My Mystic

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  • Cath
    Hi I am new. I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young traditional siamese, on Sunday morning. She was FINE that night, (and into the early morning), but,
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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      Hi

      I am new. I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young traditional
      siamese, on Sunday morning. She was FINE that night, (and into the
      early morning), but, when I awoke, I found her lethargic and panting
      heavily. Rushed to the ER vet where she was immediately taken from
      me and put on oxygen. The Vet came out shortly and said she wasn't
      going to make it. He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid, and
      suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like "did she
      sneak out and maybe get hit by a car? Did she get into antifreeze or
      tylenol? Did someone kick her?" and on and on. My answers to all
      were an emphatic NO! I even asked about CHF, and he said he was too
      young to have these types of heart problems. My friend (that I woke
      up to meet me there), has a 5yr old SHD that was diagnosed with HCM
      when she was 2.5 yrs. She even brought that up to the vet. He said
      that it was rare for a young cat to get that...... JEEEEEEEZ I did
      all kinds of internet research that night, and found many informative
      sites re: HCM, and she had so many of the symptoms!

      A little background on Mystic. I do cat rescue, and she was pulled
      from a very hideous shelter 5 weeks ago this past Saturday, with 4
      newborn kittens. These babies are now 6 weeks old today. When I
      first brought her home, she panted a couple of times, but, I do know
      that cats pant when stressed, so, I didnt give it much thought except
      to comfort her. But, from what Ive now read, she was trying to take
      in more oxygen :( But, she had no episodes. She played and ate very
      well, and took care of the growing kittens. Nothing seemed amiss til
      I found her sunday morning, very near death. The guilt is killing me.
      And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4 6wk
      old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested? Will a
      simple xray show anything? I need advice.

      Thank you for being here, and thank you Joann for telling me about
      this group

      Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL
    • Susan
      ... I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young ... her ... and he ... Not too young, but not a breed (Maine Coon, Ragdoll, American Shorthair) or sex (male
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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        --- Cath <cath_fl1@...> wrote:
        I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young
        > traditional
        > siamese, on Sunday morning. when I awoke, I found
        her
        > lethargic and panting
        > heavily. He had done a thoracentisis and
        > pulled fluid, and
        > suggested a pneumothorax... I even asked about CHF,
        and he
        > said he was too
        > young to have these types of heart problems.

        Not too young, but not a breed (Maine Coon, Ragdoll,
        American Shorthair) or sex (male rather than
        female)that is most commonly affected at a young age.

        It is hard to say why the vet was focused on trauma or
        poisoning, perhaps the appearance of the fluid from
        the thoracentisis may have suggested a cause other
        than HCM, hence the questions. Are you by any chance
        in a heartworm endemic area?

        The
        > guilt is killing me.


        We all beat ourselves up with what ifs. The reality is
        that cats are so stoic and they are expert at hiding
        disease.

        > And, I also read that HCM can strike in families.
        > So, I have 4 6wk
        > old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them
        > tested? Will a
        > simple xray show anything?

        I would watch for murmurs and have any kittens with
        murmurs ultrasounded. Not cheap but the only way to
        tell. Xrays typically are not informative

        Susan




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      • peteycat9
        ... I would watch for murmurs and have any kittens with murmurs ultrasounded. Not cheap but the only way to tell. Xrays typically are not informative. I must
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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          > And, I also read that HCM can strike in families.
          > So, I have 4 6wk
          > old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them
          > tested? Will a
          > simple xray show anything?

          "I would watch for murmurs and have any kittens with
          murmurs ultrasounded. Not cheap but the only way to
          tell. Xrays typically are not informative."

          I must also add that it IS possible for a kitten or cat to have HCM
          WITHOUT a heart murmur! This was certainly the case with the cat we
          lost at a very young age. As explained in my previous posting, my
          cat Checkers didn't even have a murmur when he was dying. I really
          recommend an ultrasound done, even if there are no symptoms or
          unusual heart sounds. Obviously, the test is expensive and having it
          done on all the litter mates would be a huge expense. But if you
          decide to keep any of the babies for yourself, then by all means, you
          may consider getting it done. I'm so sorry about Mystic. I wish you
          the very best with her kittens. I hope and pray that they are
          completely healthy.
          Love,
          Joann
        • diane
          ... I agree. Kearra had a very faint murmur that actually went away over time, and was gone for at least 2-3 years before her death. If the vet had never
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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            At 8:32 PM +0000 6/1/04, peteycat9 wrote:
            > > And, I also read that HCM can strike in families.
            >> So, I have 4 6wk
            >> old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them
            >> tested? Will a
            >> simple xray show anything?
            >
            >"I would watch for murmurs and have any kittens with
            >murmurs ultrasounded. Not cheap but the only way to
            >tell. Xrays typically are not informative."
            >
            >I must also add that it IS possible for a kitten or cat to have HCM
            >WITHOUT a heart murmur! This was certainly the case with the cat we
            >lost at a very young age. As explained in my previous posting, my
            >cat Checkers didn't even have a murmur when he was dying. I


            I agree. Kearra had a very faint murmur that actually went away over
            time, and was gone for at least 2-3 years before her death. If the
            vet had never caught the murmur early, we would have never treated
            her and keep up with the ultrasounds. It's really the only way to
            tell.

            You may want to look into other vets as well. :-/

            I'm very sorry about Mystic, you are an angel for taking in her and
            her kittens.


            Diane
          • William Draper
            - He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid, and suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like did she sneak out and maybe get hit by a car?
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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              - "He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid, and
              suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like "did she
              sneak out and maybe get hit by a car? Did she get into antifreeze or
              tylenol? Did someone kick her?" and on and on."
              -- now that's not fair. with the power of hindsight, those questions may be silly. but you have to realize that as doctors we have to make a list of differential diagnoses in our heads given the presenting signs. those questions he was asking were to cross diseases off of that list in his head.

              - "I even asked about CHF, and he said he was too young to have these types of heart problems"
              -- that wasn't a good answer from him. but, in his defense, the mean age for HCM is about 5 years and 87% of cases are male. but, the fact is, all ages, sexes, and breeds can get HCM; and he definitely should have considered it.

              - "And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4 6wk old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested?"
              -- the current thinking is that HCM is hereditary on some level (mostly because there is NO other explanation for it). you will definitely want to have the kittens checked out. radiography is unreliable, you need to have and echocardiogram of each heart to rule out HCM. contact your nearest boarded cardiologist to find out what age they suggest.

              bill
              dvm in 2005
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Cath
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:29 PM
              Subject: [FH] My Mystic


              Hi

              I am new. I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young traditional
              siamese, on Sunday morning. She was FINE that night, (and into the
              early morning), but, when I awoke, I found her lethargic and panting
              heavily. Rushed to the ER vet where she was immediately taken from
              me and put on oxygen. The Vet came out shortly and said she wasn't
              going to make it. He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid, and
              suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like "did she
              sneak out and maybe get hit by a car? Did she get into antifreeze or
              tylenol? Did someone kick her?" and on and on. My answers to all
              were an emphatic NO! I even asked about CHF, and he said he was too
              young to have these types of heart problems. My friend (that I woke
              up to meet me there), has a 5yr old SHD that was diagnosed with HCM
              when she was 2.5 yrs. She even brought that up to the vet. He said
              that it was rare for a young cat to get that...... JEEEEEEEZ I did
              all kinds of internet research that night, and found many informative
              sites re: HCM, and she had so many of the symptoms!

              A little background on Mystic. I do cat rescue, and she was pulled
              from a very hideous shelter 5 weeks ago this past Saturday, with 4
              newborn kittens. These babies are now 6 weeks old today. When I
              first brought her home, she panted a couple of times, but, I do know
              that cats pant when stressed, so, I didnt give it much thought except
              to comfort her. But, from what Ive now read, she was trying to take
              in more oxygen :( But, she had no episodes. She played and ate very
              well, and took care of the growing kittens. Nothing seemed amiss til
              I found her sunday morning, very near death. The guilt is killing me.
              And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4 6wk
              old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested? Will a
              simple xray show anything? I need advice.

              Thank you for being here, and thank you Joann for telling me about
              this group

              Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL



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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Cath
              - Hi Bill I wasn t trying to be unfair. This was an ER vet, not my vet. Even after I asked about heart disease and he said she was too young, he never once
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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                -
                Hi Bill

                I wasn't trying to be unfair. This was an ER vet, not my vet. Even
                after I asked about heart disease and he said she was too young, he
                never once brought it up again. He kept harping on about tylenol
                poisoning or FIV/FeLV. Once he dismissed heart disease, it was a
                done subject with him. I realize that he was "trying", but, at that
                moment in time I was a total basket case - my beautiful cat was dying
                at that very minute. I personally thought it incredulous that once I
                said no, she couldn't have gotten into tylenol, hit by a car, kicked,
                etc, he would have continued on a different avenue........ her heart
                perhaps. Seriously, he mentioned her nails and said she was
                apparently not an outdoor cat at least 5 times. Again, I wasn't in
                the best possible frame of mind right then, but, the scenerio plays
                over and over in my mind. She was too far gone by the time I found
                her to save her, but, maybe I'm being selfish, but, I would have
                liked some answers - or at least a semblance of one. This vet was
                also much much older than the vet I use....



                Thank you for your information on the kits. I will talk to my vet
                and find out about a feline cardiologist in my area. :)

                Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL



                > -- now that's not fair. with the power of hindsight, those
                questions may be silly. but you have to realize that as doctors we
                have to make a list of differential diagnoses in our heads given the
                presenting signs. those questions he was asking were to cross
                diseases off of that list in his head.
                >
                > - "I even asked about CHF, and he said he was too young to have
                these types of heart problems"
                > -- that wasn't a good answer from him. but, in his defense, the
                mean age for HCM is about 5 years and 87% of cases are male. but,
                the fact is, all ages, sexes, and breeds can get HCM; and he
                definitely should have considered it.
                >
                > - "And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4
                6wk old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested?"
                > -- the current thinking is that HCM is hereditary on some level
                (mostly because there is NO other explanation for it). you will
                definitely want to have the kittens checked out. radiography is
                unreliable, you need to have and echocardiogram of each heart to rule
                out HCM. contact your nearest boarded cardiologist to find out what
                age they suggest.
                >
                > bill
                > dvm in 2005
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Cath
                > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:29 PM
                > Subject: [FH] My Mystic
                >
                >
                > Hi
                >
                > I am new. I just lost my beautiful Mystic, a young traditional
                > siamese, on Sunday morning. She was FINE that night, (and into
                the
                > early morning), but, when I awoke, I found her lethargic and
                panting
                > heavily. Rushed to the ER vet where she was immediately taken
                from
                > me and put on oxygen. The Vet came out shortly and said she
                wasn't
                > going to make it. He had done a thoracentisis and pulled fluid,
                and
                > suggested a pneumothorax... asked idiotic question like "did she
                > sneak out and maybe get hit by a car? Did she get into
                antifreeze or
                > tylenol? Did someone kick her?" and on and on. My answers to
                all
                > were an emphatic NO! I even asked about CHF, and he said he was
                too
                > young to have these types of heart problems. My friend (that I
                woke
                > up to meet me there), has a 5yr old SHD that was diagnosed with
                HCM
                > when she was 2.5 yrs. She even brought that up to the vet. He
                said
                > that it was rare for a young cat to get that...... JEEEEEEEZ I
                did
                > all kinds of internet research that night, and found many
                informative
                > sites re: HCM, and she had so many of the symptoms!
                >
                > A little background on Mystic. I do cat rescue, and she was
                pulled
                > from a very hideous shelter 5 weeks ago this past Saturday, with
                4
                > newborn kittens. These babies are now 6 weeks old today. When I
                > first brought her home, she panted a couple of times, but, I do
                know
                > that cats pant when stressed, so, I didnt give it much thought
                except
                > to comfort her. But, from what Ive now read, she was trying to
                take
                > in more oxygen :( But, she had no episodes. She played and ate
                very
                > well, and took care of the growing kittens. Nothing seemed amiss
                til
                > I found her sunday morning, very near death. The guilt is
                killing me.
                > And, I also read that HCM can strike in families. So, I have 4
                6wk
                > old kittens to raise. At what age do I get them tested? Will a
                > simple xray show anything? I need advice.
                >
                > Thank you for being here, and thank you Joann for telling me
                about
                > this group
                >
                > Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL
                >
                >
                >
                > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel
                your reply will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:"
                line to feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Cath
                Thank you Diane Unfortunately, this was an ER vet - not one I have ever seen before at that particular clinic, in the times I have had to use their services.
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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                  Thank you Diane

                  Unfortunately, this was an ER vet - not one I have ever seen before
                  at that particular clinic, in the times I have had to use their
                  services. Being early on a sunday morning, it's the "take what you
                  can get" thing :(

                  I miss the sweet Mystic more than I can say. The kittens are doing
                  ok, and I am supplementing them with KMR, as they have been eating
                  solid food for almost 2 weeks now. But, it's the comfort nursing and
                  the tender care of their mom that they miss most. One of my young
                  males has proven to be an excellent "uncle", and since Sunday, has
                  kept them clean and provided them with cuddles - he is even allowing
                  them to suckle, of course, once they figure out the spigot is dry,
                  they stop LOL. It's good for them, and good for him. I believe Kain
                  will be a tremendous asset in the raising of these kits.

                  Cathy and the ever growing herd in FL




                  > I agree. Kearra had a very faint murmur that actually went away
                  over
                  > time, and was gone for at least 2-3 years before her death. If the
                  > vet had never caught the murmur early, we would have never treated
                  > her and keep up with the ultrasounds. It's really the only way to
                  > tell.
                  >
                  > You may want to look into other vets as well. :-/
                  >
                  > I'm very sorry about Mystic, you are an angel for taking in her and
                  > her kittens.
                  >
                  >
                  > Diane
                • diane
                  I don t know if she s still here, but there was someone who faced a similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive she managed to get a
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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                    I don't know if she's still here, but there was someone who faced a
                    similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive
                    she managed to get a good deal from a vet to do them all. I also
                    believe she was from down under.

                    Anyone remember more?


                    Diane
                  • diane
                    ... I agree! I once opted for surgery on my first cat and it didn t go well. It was at a different vet, although it was recommended by our vet. I had never
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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                      At 11:31 PM +0000 6/1/04, Cath wrote:
                      >Thank you Diane
                      >
                      >Unfortunately, this was an ER vet - not one I have ever seen before
                      >at that particular clinic, in the times I have had to use their
                      >services. Being early on a sunday morning, it's the "take what you
                      >can get" thing :( \

                      I agree! I once opted for surgery on my first cat and it didn't go
                      well. It was at a different vet, although it was recommended by our
                      vet. I had never gone through this before, I didn't feel the vet had
                      good people skills although he seemed fine with Tiger, and I made
                      assumptions based on what I was familiar with. Needless to say, I had
                      visted Tiger to bring her home on Saturday morning, it didn't go well
                      so I left her there (again), and had no idea that they performed such
                      surgeries with no 24 hour care. I got a call at 11am Sunday to say
                      she hadn't made the night and was furious that no one checked in for
                      such a long period of time. Lesson learned. :(

                      You remind me that I really need to place phone numbers & directions
                      to both emergency vets by the phones. We do have a vet close by that
                      I tried to go to when a neighborhood cat was hit by a car, but they
                      closed at 6 and I couldn't get a cell signal in their parking lot.

                      It's so hard when you're in panic mode to figure out the right thing to do!

                      >I miss the sweet Mystic more than I can say.

                      No doubt! I'm sure we can all relate to that. :(


                      >The kittens are doing
                      >ok, and I am supplementing them with KMR, as they have been eating
                      >solid food for almost 2 weeks now. But, it's the comfort nursing and
                      >the tender care of their mom that they miss most. One of my young
                      >males has proven to be an excellent "uncle", and since Sunday, has
                      >kept them clean and provided them with cuddles - he is even allowing
                      >them to suckle, of course, once they figure out the spigot is dry,
                      >they stop LOL. It's good for them, and good for him. I believe Kain
                      >will be a tremendous asset in the raising of these kits.

                      Hats off to Kain! Sounds like you have an angel herd, as well as yourself. ;)


                      Diane
                    • Linda Fischbach
                      That may have been Catherine (in Australia) who has a Mom and 4 (?) kittens with heart problems. She posted here a little while ago. Linda ... From: diane
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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                        That may have been Catherine (in Australia) who has a Mom and 4 (?) kittens
                        with heart problems. She posted here a little while ago.

                        Linda

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "diane" <diane@...>
                        To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:43 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FH] My Mystic


                        > I don't know if she's still here, but there was someone who faced a
                        > similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive
                        > she managed to get a good deal from a vet to do them all. I also
                        > believe she was from down under.
                        >
                        > Anyone remember more?
                        >
                        >
                        > Diane
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                        will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                        feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • diane
                        See? I was going to say Cathy but it was just too weird for both to have the same name. :) Diane
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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                          See? I was going to say Cathy but it was just too weird for both to
                          have the same name. :)

                          Diane


                          At 8:13 PM -0400 6/1/04, Linda Fischbach wrote:
                          >That may have been Catherine (in Australia) who has a Mom and 4 (?) kittens
                          >with heart problems. She posted here a little while ago.
                          >
                          >Linda
                          >
                          >----- Original Message -----
                          >From: "diane" <diane@...>
                          >To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:43 PM
                          >Subject: Re: [FH] My Mystic
                          >
                          >
                          >> I don't know if she's still here, but there was someone who faced a
                          >> similar situation with littermates, and had them all tested. I belive
                          >> she managed to get a good deal from a vet to do them all. I also
                          >> believe she was from down under.
                          >>
                          >> Anyone remember more?
                          >>
                          >>
                          > > Diane
                          >>
                          > >
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