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new member, newly diagnosed cat-advice

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  • dont im me
    My cat, Sagira, went into heart failure Monday night last week. She was diagnosed with a congenital heart disease (tricuspid dysplasia) and HCM. She is only a
    Message 1 of 9 , May 8, 2004
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      My cat, Sagira, went into heart failure Monday night last week. She
      was diagnosed with a congenital heart disease (tricuspid dysplasia)
      and HCM. She is only a year and a half old. She spent 24 hours in
      intensive care including an oxygen tank and injections of lasix to
      dry her lungs out. I brought her home Tues night.
      Since then, she has gone from letting me give her pills (lasix,
      diltiazam, enaporil, atenolol-excuse my spellings if they're wrong),
      to fighting me about it. Then me and my boyfriend both held her down
      until even that didnt work. One day, it took 2 hours to get her meds
      down even though I combined every trick you could think of. She
      refused to eat as well. The vet finally advised not to bring her back
      up there, as it might stress her enough to put her back into heart
      failure, and called in to the pharmacy to have her medicines
      liquidized and flavored, and to also put her on an appetite inducer.
      Unfortunatley, she hates liquid more than pills. Today, I barely got
      meds in her although I wrapped her up in a blanket like a mummy so
      that she couldnt move. 5 days later, she's still refusing to eat. I
      have force feed her several times of course. She drinks and drinks,
      but she gags at the smell of any new food or medicines. She's thrown
      up several times after medications were recieved, not to mention the
      stress she goes through everytime.

      So now, I'm at the point where I have to ask myself where to draw the
      line. I feel that I'm attempting to give her a second chance at life,
      but it seems to me that she's miserable. She doesnt want to play,
      eat, lay next to me. In fact, she hates me b/c I'm the one who keeps
      giving her meds. I have always felt that I dont want to be kept alive
      miserable on medicine, which is what I feel like I'm doing to her. I
      really feel that its up to HER to want to live, to take her meds, and
      to eat, but at what point do you say "she's had enough." I dont want
      her to be miserable, but I keep hearing "give her time to get use to
      the meds." We've cut her cardiac medicine nearly out, keeping her
      just on lasix (so she wont essentially drown) and the appetite
      inducer which proves worthless.
      I know no one has the "right" answer for this situation, but it kills
      me to see her like this. When do you know you cant try anymore, and
      to let her go?
      Any advice is GREATLY appreciated, my heart is in a steady decline
      over her.

      Thank you,
      Carrie
    • brinkett
      Hi, I m sorry to hear about Sagira. Only you can really know when to draw the line, but here are a few suggestions if you decide you want to carry on a bit
      Message 2 of 9 , May 9, 2004
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        Hi,

        I'm sorry to hear about Sagira. Only you can really know when to
        draw the line, but here are a few suggestions if you decide you want
        to carry on a bit more:

        1. You can get medications compounded several ways. One is into
        treats. That won't help right now while she's not eating, but if
        you can get her to start eating again, it's something to consider.
        There is also a transdermal gel which you just rub inside her ear
        which might work for you right now.

        2. There is a yahoo group for assisted feeding that you might want
        to check if you haven't already.

        Go here:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-Assisted-Feeding

        3. She seems to be on a heck of a lot of pills. I haven't heard of
        a cat before who is on an ACE-inhibitor, beta-blocker, AND calcium
        channel blocker. Has she seen a cardiologist? If not, it's
        probably a good idea to see one.

        As I said, only you can decide where to draw the line, and in a
        situation like yours there is no right and wrong answer.

        If you can find a way to give her the medications without the
        stress, that may help a lot. But your priority right now is to get
        her to eat if you decide to carry on.

        Good luck, and keep us posted.

        Sarah.

        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "dont im me" <carrie_311@y...>
        wrote:
        > My cat, Sagira, went into heart failure Monday night last week.
        She
        > was diagnosed with a congenital heart disease (tricuspid
        dysplasia)
        > and HCM. She is only a year and a half old. She spent 24 hours in
        > intensive care including an oxygen tank and injections of lasix to
        > dry her lungs out. I brought her home Tues night.
        > Since then, she has gone from letting me give her pills (lasix,
        > diltiazam, enaporil, atenolol-excuse my spellings if they're
        wrong),
        > to fighting me about it. Then me and my boyfriend both held her
        down
        > until even that didnt work. One day, it took 2 hours to get her
        meds
        > down even though I combined every trick you could think of. She
        > refused to eat as well. The vet finally advised not to bring her
        back
        > up there, as it might stress her enough to put her back into heart
        > failure, and called in to the pharmacy to have her medicines
        > liquidized and flavored, and to also put her on an appetite
        inducer.
        > Unfortunatley, she hates liquid more than pills. Today, I barely
        got
        > meds in her although I wrapped her up in a blanket like a mummy so
        > that she couldnt move. 5 days later, she's still refusing to eat.
        I
        > have force feed her several times of course. She drinks and
        drinks,
        > but she gags at the smell of any new food or medicines. She's
        thrown
        > up several times after medications were recieved, not to mention
        the
        > stress she goes through everytime.
        >
        > So now, I'm at the point where I have to ask myself where to draw
        the
        > line. I feel that I'm attempting to give her a second chance at
        life,
        > but it seems to me that she's miserable. She doesnt want to play,
        > eat, lay next to me. In fact, she hates me b/c I'm the one who
        keeps
        > giving her meds. I have always felt that I dont want to be kept
        alive
        > miserable on medicine, which is what I feel like I'm doing to her.
        I
        > really feel that its up to HER to want to live, to take her meds,
        and
        > to eat, but at what point do you say "she's had enough." I dont
        want
        > her to be miserable, but I keep hearing "give her time to get use
        to
        > the meds." We've cut her cardiac medicine nearly out, keeping her
        > just on lasix (so she wont essentially drown) and the appetite
        > inducer which proves worthless.
        > I know no one has the "right" answer for this situation, but it
        kills
        > me to see her like this. When do you know you cant try anymore,
        and
        > to let her go?
        > Any advice is GREATLY appreciated, my heart is in a steady decline
        > over her.
        >
        > Thank you,
        > Carrie
      • turkishangoraathumanesociety
        Sounds like she is on exactly the right pills...same as my cat...and that is Rx d straight from THE Cardiologist, Dr. Bonagura. My cat was VERY difficult to
        Message 3 of 9 , May 10, 2004
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          Sounds like she is on exactly the right pills...same as my cat...and
          that is Rx'd straight from "THE" Cardiologist, Dr. Bonagura. My cat
          was VERY difficult to pill prior to her heart failure (other
          meds)...Don't know what happened to her in that week at the hospital,
          but after she came home, she'd sit down all "pretty" for her meds.
          The key is QUICK...pop mouth open with left hand, pop pill in with
          right (as far back and quick as poss.), then an oral syringe with
          some water (have it ready to go after pill)...works everytime, then
          rub throat to help it all the way down...
          ************************************************************
          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "brinkett" <scrubbrush@r...>
          wrote:
          > 3. She seems to be on a heck of a lot of pills. I haven't heard
          of
          > a cat before who is on an ACE-inhibitor, beta-blocker, AND calcium
          > channel blocker. Has she seen a cardiologist? If not, it's
          > probably a good idea to see one.
          *********************************************************>
          > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "dont im me" <carrie_311@y...>
          > wrote:

          > > Since then, she has gone from letting me give her pills (lasix,
          > > diltiazam, enaporil, atenolol-excuse my spellings if they're
          > wrong),
          ****************************************************************
        • turkishangoraathumanesociety
          Rec d email: I think this came to me by accident, but just to clarify, Lillie is *not* on the same meds as this new member. She is on a beta blocker, ACE
          Message 4 of 9 , May 11, 2004
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            Rec'd email:
            I think this came to me by accident, but just to clarify, Lillie is
            *not* on
            the same meds as this new member. She is on a beta blocker, ACE
            inhibitor
            and lasix.
            --------------------------------------------------
            ****RESPONSE: I am confused...I cut & Pasted (way below) where she
            said she was on Lasix, Enalapril, and Atenolol...Did I miss
            something? It was everyone else that start talking about beta
            blockers, calcium blockers......All I know if that the OP said she
            was on those 3 drugs (Lasix, Enalapril, and Atenolol) and those are
            perfectly good meds together...did I miss a post?
            ------------------------------------------------------------



            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "turkishangoraathumanesociety"
            <turkishangoraathumanesociety@y...> wrote:
            > Sounds like she is on exactly the right pills...same as my
            cat...and
            > that is Rx'd straight from "THE" Cardiologist, Dr. Bonagura. My
            cat
            > was VERY difficult to pill prior to her heart failure (other
            > meds)...Don't know what happened to her in that week at the
            hospital,
            > but after she came home, she'd sit down all "pretty" for her meds.
            > The key is QUICK...pop mouth open with left hand, pop pill in with
            > right (as far back and quick as poss.), then an oral syringe with
            > some water (have it ready to go after pill)...works everytime, then
            > rub throat to help it all the way down...
            > ************************************************************
            > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "brinkett" <scrubbrush@r...>
            > wrote:
            > > 3. She seems to be on a heck of a lot of pills. I haven't heard
            > of
            > > a cat before who is on an ACE-inhibitor, beta-blocker, AND
            calcium
            > > channel blocker. Has she seen a cardiologist? If not, it's
            > > probably a good idea to see one.
            > *********************************************************>
            > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "dont im me"
            <carrie_311@y...>
            > > wrote:
            >
            > > > Since then, she has gone from letting me give her pills (lasix,
            > > > diltiazam, enaporil, atenolol-excuse my spellings if they're
            > > wrong),
            > ****************************************************************
          • Susan
            ... I think we have multiple new memmbers. Carrie s cat is on a calcium channel blocker and a beta-blocker. It IS done, just seldom, and it is indicated when
            Message 5 of 9 , May 11, 2004
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              --- turkishangoraathumanesociety
              <turkishangoraathumanesociety@...> wrote:
              >
              > Rec'd email:
              > I think this came to me by accident, but just to
              > clarify, Lillie is
              > *not* on
              > the same meds as this new member.
              >
              > > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "dont im
              > me"
              > <carrie_311@y...>
              > > > wrote:
              > >
              > > > > Since then, she has gone from letting me give
              > her pills (lasix,
              > > > > diltiazam, enaporil, atenolol

              I think we have multiple new memmbers.

              Carrie's cat is on a calcium channel blocker and a
              beta-blocker. It IS done, just seldom, and it is
              indicated when inadequate HR reduction is achieved
              with beta-blockade alone. If my memory serves me, the
              beta-blockade and the calcium channel blocker are
              given at different times. I cannot remember which
              cardiologist article I saw this in. If I had to guess
              it would be Phil Fox, or Bruce Keene.

              Susan

              =====
              Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19 months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling




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            • brinkett
              ... What surprised me is that Carrie s cat is on a calcium channel blocker, beta-blocker, AND ACE-inhibitor. I suggested that she find out from the
              Message 6 of 9 , May 11, 2004
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                > Carrie's cat is on a calcium channel blocker and a
                > beta-blocker.

                What surprised me is that Carrie's cat is on a calcium channel
                blocker, beta-blocker, AND ACE-inhibitor.

                I suggested that she find out from the cardiologist (she has seen
                one) what each of these medications is trying to accomplish so she
                has a clear understanding of why her cat is on all three. From what
                I understand, her cat has a congenital defect so it's not "typical"
                HCM or RCM which might explain why all of these drugs have been
                prescribed. In a "typical" HCM or RCM cat, I don't think it's
                common for them to be on all three classes of drugs at the same
                time. I'm not saying it's not done - I just haven't seen cats here
                that are on all three very often.

                Sarah.
              • turkishangoraathumanesociety
                Okay...that s strange...then you are saying that she is on a calcium channel blocker (ie: dilitiazem Cardizem ) in ADDITION to Atenolol, Enalaril and Lasix?
                Message 7 of 9 , May 11, 2004
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                  Okay...that's strange...then you are saying that she is on a calcium
                  channel blocker (ie: dilitiazem "Cardizem") in ADDITION to Atenolol,
                  Enalaril and Lasix? Only the last 3 were in the post of Carrie's
                  that I cut & pasted...It would be quite odd to be on both Cardizem
                  AND Atenolol, but that wasn't on the post that I read from Carrie...


                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- turkishangoraathumanesociety
                  > <turkishangoraathumanesociety@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Rec'd email:
                  > > I think this came to me by accident, but just to
                  > > clarify, Lillie is
                  > > *not* on
                  > > the same meds as this new member.
                  > >
                  > > > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "dont im
                  > > me"
                  > > <carrie_311@y...>
                  > > > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > > Since then, she has gone from letting me give
                  > > her pills (lasix,
                  > > > > > diltiazam, enaporil, atenolol
                  >
                  > I think we have multiple new memmbers.
                  >
                  > Carrie's cat is on a calcium channel blocker and a
                  > beta-blocker. It IS done, just seldom, and it is
                  > indicated when inadequate HR reduction is achieved
                  > with beta-blockade alone. If my memory serves me, the
                  > beta-blockade and the calcium channel blocker are
                  > given at different times. I cannot remember which
                  > cardiologist article I saw this in. If I had to guess
                  > it would be Phil Fox, or Bruce Keene.
                  >
                  > Susan
                  >
                  > =====
                  > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
                  months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
                  heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg
                  Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
                  > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
                • brinkett
                  ... calcium ... Atenolol, ... Carrie... From Carrie s original post: Since then, she has gone from letting me give her pills (lasix, diltiazam, enaporil,
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 11, 2004
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                    > Okay...that's strange...then you are saying that she is on a
                    calcium
                    > channel blocker (ie: dilitiazem "Cardizem") in ADDITION to
                    Atenolol,
                    > Enalaril and Lasix? Only the last 3 were in the post of Carrie's
                    > that I cut & pasted...It would be quite odd to be on both Cardizem
                    > AND Atenolol, but that wasn't on the post that I read from
                    Carrie...

                    From Carrie's original post:

                    "Since then, she has gone from letting me give her pills (lasix,
                    diltiazam, enaporil, atenolol-excuse my spellings if they're
                    wrong),..."

                    lasix = diuretic
                    diltiazem = calcium channel blocker
                    enaporil = ACE-inhibitor (I assume she meant enalapril)
                    atenolol = beta-blocker

                    As I said, I did exchange an email with Carrie where she indicated
                    that her cat has a congenital defect. Something to do with the
                    valves, IIRC, perhaps she can clarify. So it's not HCM or RCM only,
                    which is perhaps why her cat is on so many pills. Anyway, I
                    suggested that she ask her cardiologist what each of the pills is
                    supposed to be doing so she can at least understand why her cat is
                    taking all of them.

                    Sarah.
                  • Sande
                    We had a girl with HCM who was on dilitiazem and Atenolol and 4 other meds besides at the end. I don t remember the rest as my roommate was her primary
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 11, 2004
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                      We had a girl with HCM who was on dilitiazem and Atenolol and 4 other
                      meds besides at the end. I don't remember the rest as my roommate was
                      her primary caregiver but her med schedule was crazy. Still, it kept
                      her alive and comfortable for quite some time after a very bad
                      diagnosis.

                      Sande

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: turkishangoraathumanesociety
                      [mailto:turkishangoraathumanesociety@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:57 AM
                      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [FH] Re: new member, newly diagnosed cat-advice

                      Okay...that's strange...then you are saying that she is on a calcium
                      channel blocker (ie: dilitiazem "Cardizem") in ADDITION to Atenolol,
                      Enalaril and Lasix? Only the last 3 were in the post of Carrie's
                      that I cut & pasted...It would be quite odd to be on both Cardizem
                      AND Atenolol, but that wasn't on the post that I read from Carrie...


                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- turkishangoraathumanesociety
                      > <turkishangoraathumanesociety@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Rec'd email:
                      > > I think this came to me by accident, but just to
                      > > clarify, Lillie is
                      > > *not* on
                      > > the same meds as this new member.
                      > >
                      > > > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "dont im
                      > > me"
                      > > <carrie_311@y...>
                      > > > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > > Since then, she has gone from letting me give
                      > > her pills (lasix,
                      > > > > > diltiazam, enaporil, atenolol
                      >
                      > I think we have multiple new memmbers.
                      >
                      > Carrie's cat is on a calcium channel blocker and a
                      > beta-blocker. It IS done, just seldom, and it is
                      > indicated when inadequate HR reduction is achieved
                      > with beta-blockade alone. If my memory serves me, the
                      > beta-blockade and the calcium channel blocker are
                      > given at different times. I cannot remember which
                      > cardiologist article I saw this in. If I had to guess
                      > it would be Phil Fox, or Bruce Keene.
                      >
                      > Susan
                      >
                      > =====
                      > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
                      months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
                      heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg
                      Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________
                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
                      > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover




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