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Re: [FH] Supplements

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  • adawson1971@aol.com
    My vet investigated for me. Moth was on 75mg of CoQ10, but the vet said, he could go as high as 100mg with no ill affects (Moth weighed 18-20lbs at the time).
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 3, 2004
      My vet investigated for me. Moth was on 75mg of CoQ10, but the vet said, he could go as high as 100mg with no ill affects (Moth weighed 18-20lbs at the time). And 250mg of Taurine. I tried L-Carnitine (I forget the dosage now), but it upset Moth's stomach, so I stopped. At the time, I had also read that it had dietary effects in that it's used for weight loss in cats. (It is listed as one of the ingredients of Hill's prescription diets, which I now use for Shadow). I never tried fish oil.

      Annette



      In a message dated 3/3/2004 2:05:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, paragem@... writes:

      >
      > My Bud is on Atenolol, 1/4 tab per 24 hours. I'm also supplementing with
      > CoQ10, 20 mgs. per day; taurine, 600 mg. per day; and fish oil, 600 mg. per
      > day. I have no idea what amount is good/helpful/safe? My main vet admits
      > to being clueless regarding supplements (she's really a very good vet but so
      > far, has not explored alternative medicine much). I have another mobile vet
      > who is more versed in holisitic/homeopathic treatments but he has been out
      > of town for weeks . . . Anyone have comments regarding the levels I'm
      > currently giving? I haven't investigated L-carnitine yet so if you have any
      > info on that, I'd also appreciate it. Thanks - I'm learning a lot from this
      > list and Bud is still asymptomatic (I don't think he knows he has HCM so I'm
      > not telling . . . .)
      > Gwen and the 3 cats in Phoenix

      >
    • Linda Fischbach
      Tanya, I wouldn t use supplemental iron unless Felix shows an iron deficiency or is anemic. Iron can cause constipation.
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 20, 2005
        Tanya, I wouldn't use supplemental iron unless Felix shows an iron
        deficiency or is anemic. Iron can cause constipation.
        http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/vitaminb.htm gives sources of
        supplemental Vitamin B; Vitamin B is water soluble, so you don't have to
        worry about an overdose.

        Vitamin Shoppes has small gelcaps that have both CoQ10 and Vitamin E (either
        30mg/iu or 60 of each). Since I syringe fed, I used capsules containing
        powdered CoQ10 and added it to the food.

        Linda


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <TanyaIrw@...>
        To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:12 PM
        Subject: [FH] Supplements


        > Hi all--
        > I posted last week about my Felix, my 12-year-old HCM kitty who is on
        > Atenolol and doing quite well. I'd like to get some more feedback
        > about supplements. I am firm believer in "integrative" medicine, both
        > for cats, dogs and humans!
        >
        > First, do any of you use Pet Tinic? I used that for my 18-year-old
        > CRF kitty, Kiki, who recently had to be helped to the bridge because of
        > cancer. It's more or less a multi-vitamin. It has iron, copper,
        > thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B12. Is there any
        > reason HCM kitties can't have it?
        >
        > I've read with interest what folks have said about COQ10, Omega fatty
        > acids, L-carnitine, taurine and multi-vitamins.
        >
        > I'm wondering about what dosages I should use. Felix weighs about 10
        > pounds. (Someone said 120 mg of COQ10, but I'm not sure what size cat
        > they have.)
        >
        > What are the best sources of these supplements in cat-sized dosages?
        > I've got a great pill cutter so I can always buy caplets or tablets and
        > spilt them. Are there some brands that work best for this that you all
        > have found? (I did this with the potassium my Kiki got and I found one
        > tablet had a nice coating on it that made it split so much easier!!
        > Took some trial and error, though.)
        >
        > I'll probably run whatever I decide to try by my vet just make sure
        > nothing is conta-indicated for a kitty who also has high kidney levels
        > (Felix's are getting up there.).
        >
        > Thanks in advance for your feedback!
        >
        > Purrs,
        > Tanya
        >
        >
        >
        > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
        > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
        > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Sue B
        Tanya, I give my Maine Coon girl Pepper 120mg of CoQ10. She s about 15-1/2 pounds and will turn 12 next month. I ll list the supplements I use, how much &
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 20, 2005
          Tanya,

          I give my Maine Coon girl Pepper 120mg of CoQ10. She's about 15-1/2 pounds
          and will turn 12 next month. I'll list the supplements I use, how much &
          where I get them:

          CoQ10 - VetriScience 30mg capsules. I buy them from PetFoodDirect.com but
          other places sell them. With Pet Food Direct, they often send out e-mail
          coupons so you can get a discount. The coupons are typically 11% up to 25%.
          http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/product_detail.asp?pf%5Fid=10953907&dept%
          5Fid=172&brand%5Fid=238&mscssid=FEJA1TXDV0748GMBUCDCAPFGQ4386TT1. This gets
          mixed in her food throughout the day so she gets a total of 120mg. It has a
          very mild flavor that she doesn't notice.

          L-Carnitine - I get the Twinlab Mega L-Carnitine (500 mg) -
          http://www.twinlab.com/vms-product.cfm?Product_ID=1048&Subcategory_ID=AMIN.
          I give her 500mg daily. It comes in both tablets & capsules. I accidently
          got the tablets last time but found that grinding them down into a powder is
          just as easy as opening the capsules. A tablet is about 1/2 tsp ground so
          you can divide it among the meals using a measuring spoon. You can buy this
          in any health food store. I mix it in her food. She doesn't notice.

          Omega fatty acids - I use the Omega 3-6-9 from US Animal Nutritionals -
          http://www.usanimalnutritionals.com/omega-369-dogs-cats.html. They used to
          sell it in a bottle but now I only see capsules. I give her .25ml twice
          daily in a syringe with her liquid-compounded prescription medications and
          other supplements. It has a very strong fishy smell & taste.

          DMG - a supplement that helps the body absorb oxygen better at the cellular
          level. I could see a difference when she started getting this.
          http://www.usanimalnutritionals.com/immuno-dmg-dogs-cats.html. It comes in
          a liquid with an eye-dropper although I have much better luck administering
          it with a syringe. Gradually work up to giving them .5ml twice daily.

          Multi-vitamin with taurine. She gets Tabby Tabs - something recommended by
          Rosemary. This is also a product sold by US Animal Nutritionals
          http://www.usanimalnutritionals.com/tabby-tabs-and-liquid.html. It comes in
          chewable tables or liquid. Pepper likes the taste but doesn't like chewing
          them so I grind them up and mix them with her food. They can get 4 per day.

          She also gets 12.5mg atenolol, 5mg enalapril and 60mg lasix daily (divided).
          She's doing so well, you'd hardly know she was sick!


          Sue



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <TanyaIrw@...>
          To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:12 PM
          Subject: [FH] Supplements


          > Hi all--
          > I posted last week about my Felix, my 12-year-old HCM kitty who is on
          > Atenolol and doing quite well. I'd like to get some more feedback
          > about supplements. I am firm believer in "integrative" medicine, both
          > for cats, dogs and humans!
          >
          > First, do any of you use Pet Tinic? I used that for my 18-year-old
          > CRF kitty, Kiki, who recently had to be helped to the bridge because of
          > cancer. It's more or less a multi-vitamin. It has iron, copper,
          > thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B12. Is there any
          > reason HCM kitties can't have it?
          >
          > I've read with interest what folks have said about COQ10, Omega fatty
          > acids, L-carnitine, taurine and multi-vitamins.
          >
          > I'm wondering about what dosages I should use. Felix weighs about 10
          > pounds. (Someone said 120 mg of COQ10, but I'm not sure what size cat
          > they have.)
          >
          > What are the best sources of these supplements in cat-sized dosages?
          > I've got a great pill cutter so I can always buy caplets or tablets and
          > spilt them. Are there some brands that work best for this that you all
          > have found? (I did this with the potassium my Kiki got and I found one
          > tablet had a nice coating on it that made it split so much easier!!
          > Took some trial and error, though.)
          >
          > I'll probably run whatever I decide to try by my vet just make sure
          > nothing is conta-indicated for a kitty who also has high kidney levels
          > (Felix's are getting up there.).
          >
          > Thanks in advance for your feedback!
          >
          > Purrs,
          > Tanya
          >
        • Linda Fischbach
          I would just like to comment, if your cat also has CRF (kidney problems), do not give multi-vitamins, but instead give Vitamin B-complex. Linda ... From: Sue
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 20, 2005
            I would just like to comment, if your cat also has CRF (kidney problems), do
            not give multi-vitamins, but instead give Vitamin B-complex.

            Linda

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Sue B" <rockii@...>
            To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 9:04 PM
            Subject: Re: [FH] Supplements


            > Tanya,
            >
            > I give my Maine Coon girl Pepper 120mg of CoQ10. She's about 15-1/2
            > pounds
            > and will turn 12 next month. I'll list the supplements I use, how much &
            > where I get them:
            >
            > CoQ10 - VetriScience 30mg capsules. I buy them from PetFoodDirect.com but
            > other places sell them. With Pet Food Direct, they often send out e-mail
            > coupons so you can get a discount. The coupons are typically 11% up to
            > 25%.
            > http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/product_detail.asp?pf%5Fid=10953907&dept%
            > 5Fid=172&brand%5Fid=238&mscssid=FEJA1TXDV0748GMBUCDCAPFGQ4386TT1. This
            > gets
            > mixed in her food throughout the day so she gets a total of 120mg. It has
            > a
            > very mild flavor that she doesn't notice.
            >
            > L-Carnitine - I get the Twinlab Mega L-Carnitine (500 mg) -
            > http://www.twinlab.com/vms-product.cfm?Product_ID=1048&Subcategory_ID=AMIN.
            > I give her 500mg daily. It comes in both tablets & capsules. I
            > accidently
            > got the tablets last time but found that grinding them down into a powder
            > is
            > just as easy as opening the capsules. A tablet is about 1/2 tsp ground so
            > you can divide it among the meals using a measuring spoon. You can buy
            > this
            > in any health food store. I mix it in her food. She doesn't notice.
            >
            > Omega fatty acids - I use the Omega 3-6-9 from US Animal Nutritionals -
            > http://www.usanimalnutritionals.com/omega-369-dogs-cats.html. They used
            > to
            > sell it in a bottle but now I only see capsules. I give her .25ml twice
            > daily in a syringe with her liquid-compounded prescription medications and
            > other supplements. It has a very strong fishy smell & taste.
            >
            > DMG - a supplement that helps the body absorb oxygen better at the
            > cellular
            > level. I could see a difference when she started getting this.
            > http://www.usanimalnutritionals.com/immuno-dmg-dogs-cats.html. It comes
            > in
            > a liquid with an eye-dropper although I have much better luck
            > administering
            > it with a syringe. Gradually work up to giving them .5ml twice daily.
            >
            > Multi-vitamin with taurine. She gets Tabby Tabs - something recommended
            > by
            > Rosemary. This is also a product sold by US Animal Nutritionals
            > http://www.usanimalnutritionals.com/tabby-tabs-and-liquid.html. It comes
            > in
            > chewable tables or liquid. Pepper likes the taste but doesn't like
            > chewing
            > them so I grind them up and mix them with her food. They can get 4 per
            > day.
            >
            > She also gets 12.5mg atenolol, 5mg enalapril and 60mg lasix daily
            > (divided).
            > She's doing so well, you'd hardly know she was sick!
            >
            >
            > Sue
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: <TanyaIrw@...>
            > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:12 PM
            > Subject: [FH] Supplements
            >
            >
            >> Hi all--
            >> I posted last week about my Felix, my 12-year-old HCM kitty who is on
            >> Atenolol and doing quite well. I'd like to get some more feedback
            >> about supplements. I am firm believer in "integrative" medicine, both
            >> for cats, dogs and humans!
            >>
            >> First, do any of you use Pet Tinic? I used that for my 18-year-old
            >> CRF kitty, Kiki, who recently had to be helped to the bridge because of
            >> cancer. It's more or less a multi-vitamin. It has iron, copper,
            >> thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B12. Is there any
            >> reason HCM kitties can't have it?
            >>
            >> I've read with interest what folks have said about COQ10, Omega fatty
            >> acids, L-carnitine, taurine and multi-vitamins.
            >>
            >> I'm wondering about what dosages I should use. Felix weighs about 10
            >> pounds. (Someone said 120 mg of COQ10, but I'm not sure what size cat
            >> they have.)
            >>
            >> What are the best sources of these supplements in cat-sized dosages?
            >> I've got a great pill cutter so I can always buy caplets or tablets and
            >> spilt them. Are there some brands that work best for this that you all
            >> have found? (I did this with the potassium my Kiki got and I found one
            >> tablet had a nice coating on it that made it split so much easier!!
            >> Took some trial and error, though.)
            >>
            >> I'll probably run whatever I decide to try by my vet just make sure
            >> nothing is conta-indicated for a kitty who also has high kidney levels
            >> (Felix's are getting up there.).
            >>
            >> Thanks in advance for your feedback!
            >>
            >> Purrs,
            >> Tanya
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
            > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
            > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • mfortner@att.net
            Tanya, Here s what I give Spice (in addition to his meds - atenolol, enalapril, and lasix) 1. CoQ-10 - I 30 mg capsule per day. I get the capsules from
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 20, 2005
              Tanya,

              Here's what I give Spice (in addition to his meds - atenolol, enalapril, and lasix)

              1. CoQ-10 - I 30 mg capsule per day. I get the capsules from Vitamine Shoppe.com - same place I buy my suppliments. Their prices are good and you earn bonus points on every purchase that give you money off purchases.

              2. Cardio-Strength -1 capsule per day- contains
              L-Taurine 250 mg
              L-Carnitine 250 mg
              Dimethylglycine HCI 50 mg (DMG)
              Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) 25 mg
              Vitamin E Supplement 30 IU
              Coenzyme Q10 20 mg
              Gamma Linolenic Acid 10 mg

              I buy it at Healthy Pets.com - 30 capsules for $12.99. I don't have time to buy all the above ingredients separately and mix them up - so it's easier to just buy them in one capsule.

              3. Renakare powder - 1/4 tsp per day. This is a potassium supplement (generic form of Tumil-K) because he takes Lasix which drains potassium.

              4. Transfer Factor Feline Complete - vitamins, minerals, EFAs, immune booosters and lot of other stuff. This is the same supplement I've been giving Creamsicle (FIV+) for over 5 years. Now Spice and his littermate, Sugar, are getting it too. I order it from <http://stores.skipjack.com/betterherbs/StoreFront.bok> - best price I've found and free shipping.

              He get supplements twice a day in some baby food.

              Hope this helps!

              --
              Marge, Sugar, Spice, Creamsicle (FIV+), and Callie
              Bridge Kitties Felix and Oscar
              Kitties at <http://tinyurl.com/s8ab>
            • toomanykitties@webtv.net
              A potassium supplement........because Lasix drains potassium I was told that K supplementaion was not necessary when Enalapril was also being used, because
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 21, 2005
                "A potassium supplement........because Lasix drains potassium"
                I was told that K supplementaion was not necessary when
                Enalapril was also being used, because the Enalapril conserves
                potassium. Is this dosage related? Or simply wrong? This came up because
                I had asked for a potassium sparing diuretic instead of Lasix. Sigh. So
                much to learn, and then remember what applies to whom!!
                Margo
              • Susan
                Because electrolyte balance is so crucial I am pretty sure no one should elect to supplement potassium on their own by assuming the lasix has caused a
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 21, 2005
                  Because electrolyte balance is so crucial I am pretty
                  sure no one should elect to supplement potassium on
                  their own by assuming the lasix has caused a potassium
                  deficiency. Unless a vet told me to supplement
                  potassium I would not do it.

                  Susan

                  --- toomanykitties@... wrote:

                  > "A potassium supplement........because Lasix drains
                  > potassium"
                  > I was told that K supplementaion was
                  > not necessary when
                  > Enalapril was also being used, because the Enalapril
                  > conserves
                  > potassium. Is this dosage related? Or simply wrong?
                  > This came up because
                  > I had asked for a potassium sparing diuretic instead
                  > of Lasix. Sigh. So
                  > much to learn, and then remember what applies to
                  > whom!!
                  > Margo
                  >
                  >




                  ____________________________________________________
                  Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
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                • savionna@aol.com
                  Hi Tanya, In a message dated 8/20/05 8:14:06 PM, TanyaIrw@aol.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 21, 2005
                    Hi Tanya,

                    In a message dated 8/20/05 8:14:06 PM, TanyaIrw@... writes:

                    << I am firm believer in "integrative" medicine, both
                    for cats, dogs and humans! >>

                    That's great. No one system of healing is appropriate for all cases...and
                    every system of healing has benefits to offer.

                    << First, do any of you use Pet Tinic? >>

                    No, we don't. When I needed to give B vitamins, I used an injectable form.

                    << It's more or less a multi-vitamin. >>

                    Not really (a "multivitamin" is generally understood to contain a fuller
                    range, from Vit A to E). It's a low-dose source of 5 of the B vitamins and some
                    minerals, in a liquid that contains corn syrup, sucrose, caramel color, and
                    anise...none of which are appropriate to cats.

                    There is a chart comparing Pet-Tinic with other sources of B vitamins here:
                    http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/vitaminb.htm.

                    << Is there any
                    reason HCM kitties can't have it? >>

                    If you want to supplement with B complex or B12, there are other sources that
                    contain fewer undesirable ingredients and have a fuller range and higher
                    doses of vitamins. Since all of the "human" liquid B complex vitamins contain
                    either 1) sodium benzoate (a potentially toxic preservative) or 2) fruit flavoring
                    that is unpalatable for cats, it's generally recommended to use a
                    good-quality tablet or injectable (if you're comfortable giving injections and/or using
                    subQ fluids, as they can be injected into the line port).

                    << I've read with interest what folks have said about COQ10, Omega fatty
                    acids, L-carnitine, taurine and multi-vitamins. I'm wondering about what
                    dosages I should use. Felix weighs about 10 pounds. (Someone said 120 mg of
                    COQ10, but I'm not sure what size cat
                    they have.) >>

                    That's hard to say, as need for, ability to use, and reaction to nutritional
                    support is so individual.

                    The general starting dose (as opposed to therapuetic dose) for Q10 is about
                    10-30mg.

                    Essential fatty acids is a complex issue, but the general recommendation is
                    to provide a balance of 4-10 Omega 6s to 1 Omega 3s, preferrably from animal
                    sources. This is hard to do in part b/c you don't know the EFA content of the
                    food (unless you really work at it). One product to consider is Animal
                    Essentials Essential Fatty Acid Supplement at www.animalessentials.com. US Animal
                    Nutritionals also has a multi-EFA. A reputable source of Omega 3s is Carlson. If
                    you're interested in information on EFAs, some sources (not all about cats) incl:

                    1. www.newhope.com/nutritionsciencenews/NSN_backs/Oct_01/pufa.cfm
                    2. www.newhope.com/nutritionsciencenews/nsn_backs/Oct_01/pufa_s1.cfm
                    3. www.gooddogmagazine.com/fattyacids.htm
                    4. www.gooddogmagazine.com/omega3.htm
                    5. www.serve.com/BatonRouge/nutrition/default.htm
                    6. http://dcnutrition.com/FattyAcids/Detail.CFM?RecordNumber=126
                    7. http://dcnutrition.com/FattyAcids/

                    A general starting dose for taurine is about 100mg daily. For L-carnitine
                    about 250mg daily.

                    For an all-purpose multivitamin/mineral, one option is NuCat at
                    www.vetriscience. The identical product is Tabby Tabs from www.usanimalnutritionals.com (a
                    "sister" company to VetriScience). I generally give 2 (instead of the
                    recommended 4) daily.

                    << What are the best sources of these supplements in cat-sized dosages? >>

                    I buy all supplements from a good health-food store or from online sources
                    such as www.iherb.com. And in general I buy high-quality human supplements...and
                    get them in the largest possible dose so that I can use the smallest possible
                    volume for the cat. Eg, I get 100mg capsules of (powder, not oil) Q10 in
                    gelcaps...and sprinkle out the desired amt before reclosing the cap (this is more
                    efficient than using a 10mg cap). I do the same with tablets...and cut and/or
                    crush as needed. If the tablet is relatively tasteless, I give in a treat (not
                    a meal). If not, I add to an empty cat-sized gelcap (like #2) and pill. There
                    is information on gelcaps here:
                    http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/gelcaps.htm.

                    << Are there some brands that work best for this that you all
                    have found? >>

                    I tend to stay away from nearly all "veterinary" brands except those few that
                    are of high quality, such as www.vetriscience (and
                    www.usanimalnutritionals.com). Most are just overpriced, repackaged versions of common OTC nutritional
                    supplements and often contain ingredients that are either not appropriate to or
                    not palatable to cats. The "human" supplement brands that are generally
                    reputable incl Solgar, Source Naturals, and Country Life, among others. I tend to
                    stay away from TwinLabs...and use NOW only when it has a product no one else
                    does (which sometimes happens). // Rosemary
                  • savionna@aol.com
                    Hi Sue, In a message dated 8/20/05 9:05:17 PM, rockii@optonline.net writes:
                    Message 9 of 18 , Aug 21, 2005
                      Hi Sue,

                      In a message dated 8/20/05 9:05:17 PM, rockii@... writes:

                      << CoQ10 - VetriScience 30mg capsules. I buy them from PetFoodDirect.com but

                      other places sell them. >>

                      Just a brief FYI on this (if you didn't know). US Animal Nutritionals, which
                      is VetriScience's "sister" company, also has the Q10 (same as the VS product).
                      So when you're buying the Tabby Tabs, you can maybe order this, too, and save
                      some $$ (either in shipping or on the product itself). I didn't compare
                      prices...just a suggestion. // Rosemary
                    • Linda Fischbach
                      AND a blood test shows low potassium. Linda ... From: Susan To: ; Cc: ;
                      Message 10 of 18 , Aug 21, 2005
                        AND a blood test shows low potassium.

                        Linda

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Susan" <somnamblst@...>
                        To: <toomanykitties@...>; <mfortner@...>
                        Cc: <TanyaIrw@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 12:50 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FH] Supplements


                        > Because electrolyte balance is so crucial I am pretty
                        > sure no one should elect to supplement potassium on
                        > their own by assuming the lasix has caused a potassium
                        > deficiency. Unless a vet told me to supplement
                        > potassium I would not do it.
                        >
                        > Susan
                        >
                        > --- toomanykitties@... wrote:
                        >
                        >> "A potassium supplement........because Lasix drains
                        >> potassium"
                        >> I was told that K supplementaion was
                        >> not necessary when
                        >> Enalapril was also being used, because the Enalapril
                        >> conserves
                        >> potassium. Is this dosage related? Or simply wrong?
                        >> This came up because
                        >> I had asked for a potassium sparing diuretic instead
                        >> of Lasix. Sigh. So
                        >> much to learn, and then remember what applies to
                        >> whom!!
                        >> Margo
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ____________________________________________________
                        > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                        > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                        > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                        > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • mfortner@att.net
                        ... From: Toomanykitties@webtv.net (Margo Cline) ... Probably dosage related - because Spice only get 1.25 mg of Enalapril a day, his cardiologist wanted me to
                        Message 11 of 18 , Aug 21, 2005
                          -------------- Original message ----------------------
                          From: Toomanykitties@... (Margo Cline)
                          >I was told that K supplementaion was not necessary when
                          > Enalapril was also being used, because the Enalapril conserves
                          > potassium. Is this dosage related? Or simply wrong?

                          Probably dosage related - because Spice only get 1.25 mg of Enalapril a day, his cardiologist wanted me to continue with low dose potassium supplementation He was getting 1/4 tsp twice a day, but is now getting 1/4 tsp once a day since his Lasix was reduced.

                          Marge
                        • Sue B
                          My cardiologist said that potassium supplementation is not necessary. Cats do not react to diuretics in the same way as people. If you re not sure, have a
                          Message 12 of 18 , Aug 21, 2005
                            My cardiologist said that potassium supplementation is not necessary. Cats
                            do not react to diuretics in the same way as people.

                            If you're not sure, have a blood test done. Over-dosing with potassium can
                            cause problems.


                            Sue



                            > "A potassium supplement........because Lasix drains potassium"
                            > I was told that K supplementaion was not necessary when
                            > Enalapril was also being used, because the Enalapril conserves
                            > potassium. Is this dosage related? Or simply wrong? This came up because
                            > I had asked for a potassium sparing diuretic instead of Lasix. Sigh. So
                            > much to learn, and then remember what applies to whom!!
                            > Margo
                            >
                            >
                          • Sue B
                            Rosemary, I was aware that they re sister companies. The reason I buy from Pet Food Direct is that a bottle of 60 30-mg capsules is $17.50. At US Animal
                            Message 13 of 18 , Aug 21, 2005
                              Rosemary,

                              I was aware that they're sister companies. The reason I buy from Pet Food
                              Direct is that a bottle of 60 30-mg capsules is $17.50. At US Animal
                              Nutritionals, it's $25.95.

                              Plus, there are the coupons at Pet Food Direct so even with shipping, it's
                              far less expensive.

                              But thanks for letting me know!


                              Sue


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: <Savionna@...>
                              To: <rockii@...>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 2:17 PM
                              Subject: Re: [FH] Supplements


                              > Hi Sue,
                              >
                              > In a message dated 8/20/05 9:05:17 PM, rockii@... writes:
                              >
                              > << CoQ10 - VetriScience 30mg capsules. I buy them from PetFoodDirect.com
                              but
                              >
                              > other places sell them. >>
                              >
                              > Just a brief FYI on this (if you didn't know). US Animal Nutritionals,
                              which
                              > is VetriScience's "sister" company, also has the Q10 (same as the VS
                              product).
                              > So when you're buying the Tabby Tabs, you can maybe order this, too, and
                              save
                              > some $$ (either in shipping or on the product itself). I didn't compare
                              > prices...just a suggestion. // Rosemary
                              >
                              >
                            • mfortner@att.net
                              ... From: Susan ... Oh, my goodness....of course this is being done because Spice s cardiologist has prescribed it! And his electrolytes
                              Message 14 of 18 , Aug 21, 2005
                                -------------- Original message ----------------------
                                From: Susan <somnamblst@...>
                                > Because electrolyte balance is so crucial I am pretty
                                > sure no one should elect to supplement potassium on
                                > their own by assuming the lasix has caused a potassium
                                > deficiency. Unless a vet told me to supplement
                                > potassium I would not do it.

                                Oh, my goodness....of course this is being done because Spice's cardiologist has prescribed it! And his electrolytes are checked on a regular basis.

                                --
                                Marge, Sugar, Spice (HCM), Creamsicle, and Callie
                                Bridge Kitties Felix and Oscar
                                Kitties at <http://tinyurl.com/s8ab>
                              • Sue B
                                Susan, Sounds like a typical calico attitude! Congratulations on getting her back into shape. I get the DMG in liquid form from US Animal Nutritionals -
                                Message 15 of 18 , Aug 26, 2005
                                  Susan,

                                  Sounds like a typical calico attitude! Congratulations on getting her back
                                  into shape.

                                  I get the DMG in liquid form from US Animal Nutritionals -
                                  http://www.usanimalnutritionals.com/immuno-dmg-dogs-cats.html

                                  Active Ingredient Per 0.5 ml:
                                  Each ml of liquid contains 100 mg of N,N-Dimethylglycine (DMG) in a base of
                                  distilled water and sodium benzoate (preservative). One drop contains 5 mg
                                  of DMG. 0.5 ml = 10 drops

                                  She started out getting .25ml twice daily and after she got used to it,
                                  raised it to .5ml twice daily.

                                  They also sell it in chewable tabs.


                                  Sue

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "millefont1" <millefont1@...>
                                  To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:01 PM
                                  Subject: [FH] Supplements


                                  > Hi, everyone---I'm another new member, but a regular on the Feline IBD
                                  > list with Peaseblossom. She is a 6 yr old calico with attitude---and a
                                  > terrible heart. We adopted her in April, 2005 and finally got her IBD
                                  > under control by this summer. In July, we found out the hard way that
                                  > she also has HCM. She barely survived her first crisis with congestive
                                  > heart failure AND kidney failure. Both the nephrologist and the
                                  > cardiologist figured she wouldn't make it, or if she did, that she
                                  > would never recover normal kidney function or any quality of life.
                                  > But she's a little fighter and beat all the odds this time, as she has
                                  > already done with IBD. Her kidney values are normal, and she's doing
                                  > fairly well with her heart so far. In fact, our biggest problem with
                                  > her at the moment is that she keeps harassing and chasing our 4 other
                                  > bigger, healthier, and clearly wimpier cats. As she's gotten stronger
                                  > from all her combined illnesses, she is developing a VERY jealous
                                  > temperament...We call her our little terrorist.
                                  >
                                  > The vet wanted to wait until she was stronger to put her on meds, but
                                  > after combing the Net and the info on this list (thanks to you all,
                                  > esp. Lisa!), I've already put her on 30 mgs of CoQ10, 250 mgs. of L-
                                  > carnitine, extra salmon oil, and a little extra selenium, B-complex,
                                  > and taurine per day. For her IBD, she was already taking Lyprinol (a
                                  > concentrated omega 3 fatty acid), L-glutamine, and Culturelle
                                  > (probiotic). Some posts also recommend DMG, but I couldn't find any
                                  > dosage info. By the way, we feed all our cats a raw diet we got from
                                  > www.catnutrition.org. Can anyone let me know what the dose for DMG
                                  > should be, and whether there are other supplements we should
                                  > consider? Thanks so much.
                                  > Susan and Peaseblossom (along w/ Wally, Patience, Pippin, and Lily)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Lisa Clarizia
                                  Susan, I agree with Sue -- typical calico attitude! :) I love the name Peaseblossom too. Baby Boy gets DMG as well. I use tablets, which are ground up and
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Aug 27, 2005
                                    Susan,

                                    I agree with Sue -- typical calico attitude! :) I love the name Peaseblossom
                                    too.

                                    Baby Boy gets DMG as well. I use tablets, which are ground up and included
                                    in his supplement regimen. He gets about 50 mg per day right now.

                                    Where she had kidney failure as well as everything else (poor kitty!) you'll
                                    need to be extra careful with supplements. It sounds like what she's taking
                                    right now is pretty comprehensive for her situation -- the
                                    q10/carnitine/taurine triad is, in my non-professional opinion, the key
                                    element in any heart-kitty supplement regimen, everything else needs to be
                                    tailored to the individual kitty.

                                    Congratulations on getting her this far, and welcome to the list, though, as
                                    always, I'm sorry you had to join us!

                                    Lisa

                                    Lisa

                                    On 8/27/05, Sue B <rockii@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Susan,
                                    >
                                    > Sounds like a typical calico attitude! Congratulations on getting her back
                                    > into shape.
                                    >
                                    > I get the DMG in liquid form from US Animal Nutritionals -
                                    > http://www.usanimalnutritionals.com/immuno-dmg-dogs-cats.html
                                    >
                                    > Active Ingredient Per 0.5 ml:
                                    > Each ml of liquid contains 100 mg of N,N-Dimethylglycine (DMG) in a base
                                    > of
                                    > distilled water and sodium benzoate (preservative). One drop contains 5 mg
                                    > of DMG. 0.5 ml = 10 drops
                                    >
                                    > She started out getting .25ml twice daily and after she got used to it,
                                    > raised it to .5ml twice daily.
                                    >
                                    > They also sell it in chewable tabs.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Sue
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "millefont1" <millefont1@...>
                                    > To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:01 PM
                                    > Subject: [FH] Supplements
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > Hi, everyone---I'm another new member, but a regular on the Feline IBD
                                    > > list with Peaseblossom. She is a 6 yr old calico with attitude---and a
                                    > > terrible heart. We adopted her in April, 2005 and finally got her IBD
                                    > > under control by this summer. In July, we found out the hard way that
                                    > > she also has HCM. She barely survived her first crisis with congestive
                                    > > heart failure AND kidney failure. Both the nephrologist and the
                                    > > cardiologist figured she wouldn't make it, or if she did, that she
                                    > > would never recover normal kidney function or any quality of life.
                                    > > But she's a little fighter and beat all the odds this time, as she has
                                    > > already done with IBD. Her kidney values are normal, and she's doing
                                    > > fairly well with her heart so far. In fact, our biggest problem with
                                    > > her at the moment is that she keeps harassing and chasing our 4 other
                                    > > bigger, healthier, and clearly wimpier cats. As she's gotten stronger
                                    > > from all her combined illnesses, she is developing a VERY jealous
                                    > > temperament...We call her our little terrorist.
                                    > >
                                    > > The vet wanted to wait until she was stronger to put her on meds, but
                                    > > after combing the Net and the info on this list (thanks to you all,
                                    > > esp. Lisa!), I've already put her on 30 mgs of CoQ10, 250 mgs. of L-
                                    > > carnitine, extra salmon oil, and a little extra selenium, B-complex,
                                    > > and taurine per day. For her IBD, she was already taking Lyprinol (a
                                    > > concentrated omega 3 fatty acid), L-glutamine, and Culturelle
                                    > > (probiotic). Some posts also recommend DMG, but I couldn't find any
                                    > > dosage info. By the way, we feed all our cats a raw diet we got from
                                    > > www.catnutrition.org <http://www.catnutrition.org>. Can anyone let me
                                    > know what the dose for DMG
                                    > > should be, and whether there are other supplements we should
                                    > > consider? Thanks so much.
                                    > > Susan and Peaseblossom (along w/ Wally, Patience, Pippin, and Lily)
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your reply will go to the author of this message. If you feel your reply
                                    > will benefit the entire group, please change the "To:" line to
                                    > feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    --
                                    Lisa Clarizia
                                    lclarizia@...


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Sue at MAGDRL
                                    Helen, No apologies. This list exists to answer questions to help you & your kitties! I would not give cod liver oil. Oils made from liver contain high
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Apr 18, 2007
                                      Helen,

                                      No apologies. This list exists to answer questions to help you & your
                                      kitties!

                                      I would not give cod liver oil. Oils made from liver contain high amounts
                                      of vitamin D and if they get too much, it can be harmful. Fish oils from
                                      the body of the fish - not the liver - are what you'd want.

                                      CoQ10 and l-carnitine are available at any health food store. If you want
                                      to buy it online, you have a couple options. First, CoQ10 comes in two
                                      forms - gel caps and capsules. There are products made specifically for
                                      pets such as the Vetri-Science CoQ10 capsules -
                                      http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/product_detail.asp?pf%5Fid=10953907&dept%
                                      5Fid=172&brand%5Fid=238&mscssid=7XBEGJV331S19J8X0VMELDH1JD2QB358

                                      Or you can order one made for humans
                                      http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/search/en/query.jsp?q=solgar+coq10&intsource=ma
                                      in

                                      L-carnitine is also available from the Vitamin Shoppe
                                      http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=TL-1910

                                      I do like buying my vitamins from www.vitacost.com because their prices are
                                      so good but I always preferred the Solgar CoQ10 and they don't carry Solgar.


                                      Sue



                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "helen stone" <beingtherealways@...>
                                      To: <feline-hypert@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Cc: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:30 AM
                                      Subject: [FH] Supplements


                                      > Dear All,
                                      > I have a silly question again, I brought Anna some nordic naturals cod
                                      liver oil following someones wonderful recommendation of their products on
                                      here, now thinking I might have brought the wrong thing, I'm not sure if the
                                      gel caps would be better? I think they have vit e, and the cod liver oil has
                                      a and D which I'm not sure I should be giving, the D due to her slightly
                                      raised phosphate.
                                      > Also, equally silly, but if anyone knows a web site where I can get her
                                      coq 10 and l carnitine I'd really love to know, the ones I have seem to have
                                      a lot of additives and weird bases which I'm just not sure I want to pile
                                      into her system,
                                      > Sorry,
                                      > Thanks so much
                                      > Helen
                                      >
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