Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Help! Need an alternative to Fragmin (anticoagulant)

Expand Messages
  • Deena
    I just went to get Mr. Pepe s Fragmin refilled and almost had an embolism myself at the $500 bill. Are any alternatives which might also prevent clot
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 4, 2003
      I just went to get Mr. Pepe's Fragmin refilled and almost had an
      embolism myself at the $500 bill. Are any alternatives which might
      also prevent clot formation? I know he is high risk for clots, but
      is Fragmin THAT much better than the cheaper anticoagulates? The
      timing is horrible as I have an 8am ring time at the Boston Dog Show
      tomorrow and a million things to do to get ready. I will have my
      vet call the Tufts Cardiologist to see what else can be used. The
      pharmacy will hold the Fragmin for a few days while I sort this
      out.

      In the meantime, I am wondering what others use to prevent clots. I
      picked up some baby aspirin, but am nervous to use it since he
      is "supposedly" so sick: Mr. Pepe has severe HCM and advanced CHF,
      but you would never know it. It's a good thing he can't read his
      cardiology reports since none of the "white coats" can believe he is
      still alive, let alone catching moths and bossing dogs around at
      Rover Romp.

      Here's the stuff from his echo that might be important to figure out
      which anticoagulant might work:
      His LVW thickness, combined IVS & LVW thinckness, and LV myocardial
      area are "off the chart" to the right. Papillary muscles are
      extremely prominent. A moderator band was seen in the LV. The LA
      is extremely enlarged with swirling "smoke" seen, NO CLOTS (yet)
      were seen in the LA or LAA. Free wall is markedly thickened. LV
      cavity size is not reduced. Trivial TR and MR noted. Mild
      turbulence was seen in the PA and Ao. No Sam.

      Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm also interested in
      finding natural anticoagulants since my eventual plan is to see if I
      can cut down on his allopathic meds if I can find alternative
      solutions.

      Thanks. You guys are really great. I'm so sorry to hear about
      Simba & Midgie. My heart goes out to you both. It's very scary for
      me since these two kitties had very similar stories to Mr P and I
      would hate for him to throw a clot because Mom was to cheap to get
      the Fragmin. I've done some homework and I just don't see the added
      benefit of Fragmin to justify the cost and everything I can find
      says it is only used for short-term use. I was a sales rep for
      a pharmaceutical company for years and know the tricks of the
      trade. If Fragmin is the only appropriate med, then I'll have a
      tough choice to make. But if there are alternative that are just as
      good (or better), I want to know about them.

      Deena in Newburyport, MA
      Mr. Pepe: Male, NFC, diagnosed 11/12/03 at 3 yrs, severe HCM,
      restrictive,severely enlarged left atrium, advanced CHF, grade 2/6
      murmur. Enalapril 2.5 mg 1x day, Fragmin .04 ml 2x/day subcu, lasix
      5mg 2x day. (Are considering adding Atenolol depending on blood
      results)
    • diane
      Deena, Make sure you check some other pharmacies as well. When Frisky was on chemo meds there was a huge difference even in the same town. Though none were
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 4, 2003
        Deena,

        Make sure you check some other pharmacies as well. When Frisky was on
        chemo meds there was a huge difference even in the same town. Though
        none were $500 - yikes! I would have stopped breathing myself.


        Diane
      • Steph Schoff
        Deena, Ask your cardiologist about Lovenox (enoxaparin sodium) which is Fragmin s competitor. Lovenox is also a low molecular weight heparin. We used Lovenox
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 4, 2003
          Deena,
          Ask your cardiologist about Lovenox (enoxaparin sodium) which is
          Fragmin's competitor. Lovenox is also a low molecular weight
          heparin. We used Lovenox w/ our beloved Gus. There is also Angell
          Memorial in Boston where we took Gus. Lovenox is expensive but we
          purchased it in Canada and saved a lot of money:

          http://www.canammeds.com/search.php?q=fragmin

          There's a vet at U Penn doing research on the 2 drugs. She's trying
          to confirm the ideal dose for cats w/ HCM.
          I can give you her name & info if you'd like.

          Good luck,
          Steph, Angel Gus, Louise & Sam
          http://www.gussielou.com

          Please support the Winn Feline Foundation - Feline Hypertrophic
          Cardiomyopathy Research

          http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/ricky-fund.html

          In memory of Gus 10/31/98 - 6/13/03
          The Best Kitty Ever
        • Deena
          ... wrote: Ask your cardiologist about Lovenox (enoxaparin sodium) which is Fragmin s competitor. Lovenox is also a low molecular weight heparin. There is
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 4, 2003
            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Steph Schoff" <sschoff@e...>
            wrote: Ask your cardiologist about Lovenox (enoxaparin sodium)
            which is Fragmin's competitor. Lovenox is also a low molecular
            weight heparin. There is also Angell Memorial in Boston where we
            took Gus. Lovenox is expensive but we purchased it in Canada and
            saved a lot of money: http://www.canammeds.com/search.php?q=fragmin
            There's a vet at U Penn doing research on the 2 drugs. She's trying
            > to confirm the ideal dose for cats w/ HCM.I can give you her name
            & info if you'd like.
            >

            Thanks Steph. Lovenox seems pretty identical to Fragmin and is much
            cheaper. I also want to make sure that he needs this class of drugs
            since he doesn't have any clots yet. I've been meaning to contact
            you since we have so many similarities and live in the same area. I
            am very interested in picking your brain about Angell Memorial as an
            alternative to Tufts. I also would be interested in the U Penn
            research, so please forward whatever info you have.

            It might be easier over the phone. If comfortable, you can email
            your #, or I will give you mine. Maybe next week we can touch
            base. This weekends nuts for me. I am showing Buddie Fri-Sun in
            Boston and she is in standing heat. A horny Toller has an attention
            span of about 1.5 seconds, so it should be fun.

            Thanks again for your help.

            Deena (maybe I will just pull an all-nighter at this point)
            Mr. Pepe' (I want to go to the dog show)
            Buddie (Mom thinks I'll listen to her, but really all I care about
            is those hunky male dogs)
          • jenanddeagan
            Deena, I m also wondering about coumadin (aka Warfarin). It is the most common drug we use in irregular heartbeats in humans (atrial fibrillation) where the
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 4, 2003
              Deena,

              I'm also wondering about coumadin (aka Warfarin). It is the most
              common drug we use in irregular heartbeats in humans (atrial
              fibrillation) where the risks of clots are for the same reasons in
              HCM (stagnant blood flow in atrium; predesposing to systemic
              clots). Coumadin has the disadvantage of requiring weekly blood
              tests (prothrombin times (PTT)) until a theraputic dose is reached,
              but is fairly stable after that point. In the short term it may be
              more expensive, but in the long term it may be the most economical.
              I'm not sure how widely used it is in HCM in cats, again, as a
              paramedic, my experience is entirely human based.

              I agree with one of the previous posts that drugs are cheaper here
              in Canada. If one of the online store cannot accomadate you, I
              could take a fax of the script and send it to you by priority post.
              Contact me if you would like to work something out.
              (lundgren_jennifer@...)

              Good Luck,

              jen
              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Deena" <mottola@c...> wrote:
              > I just went to get Mr. Pepe's Fragmin refilled and almost had an
              > embolism myself at the $500 bill. Are any alternatives which
              might
              > also prevent clot formation? I know he is high risk for clots,
              but
              > is Fragmin THAT much better than the cheaper anticoagulates? The
              > timing is horrible as I have an 8am ring time at the Boston Dog
              Show
              > tomorrow and a million things to do to get ready. I will have my
              > vet call the Tufts Cardiologist to see what else can be used. The
              > pharmacy will hold the Fragmin for a few days while I sort this
              > out.
              >
              > In the meantime, I am wondering what others use to prevent clots.
              I
              > picked up some baby aspirin, but am nervous to use it since he
              > is "supposedly" so sick: Mr. Pepe has severe HCM and advanced CHF,
              > but you would never know it. It's a good thing he can't read his
              > cardiology reports since none of the "white coats" can believe he
              is
              > still alive, let alone catching moths and bossing dogs around at
              > Rover Romp.
              >
              > Here's the stuff from his echo that might be important to figure
              out
              > which anticoagulant might work:
              > His LVW thickness, combined IVS & LVW thinckness, and LV
              myocardial
              > area are "off the chart" to the right. Papillary muscles are
              > extremely prominent. A moderator band was seen in the LV. The LA
              > is extremely enlarged with swirling "smoke" seen, NO CLOTS (yet)
              > were seen in the LA or LAA. Free wall is markedly thickened. LV
              > cavity size is not reduced. Trivial TR and MR noted. Mild
              > turbulence was seen in the PA and Ao. No Sam.
              >
              > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm also interested in
              > finding natural anticoagulants since my eventual plan is to see if
              I
              > can cut down on his allopathic meds if I can find alternative
              > solutions.
              >
              > Thanks. You guys are really great. I'm so sorry to hear about
              > Simba & Midgie. My heart goes out to you both. It's very scary
              for
              > me since these two kitties had very similar stories to Mr P and I
              > would hate for him to throw a clot because Mom was to cheap to get
              > the Fragmin. I've done some homework and I just don't see the
              added
              > benefit of Fragmin to justify the cost and everything I can find
              > says it is only used for short-term use. I was a sales rep for
              > a pharmaceutical company for years and know the tricks of the
              > trade. If Fragmin is the only appropriate med, then I'll have a
              > tough choice to make. But if there are alternative that are just
              as
              > good (or better), I want to know about them.
              >
              > Deena in Newburyport, MA
              > Mr. Pepe: Male, NFC, diagnosed 11/12/03 at 3 yrs, severe HCM,
              > restrictive,severely enlarged left atrium, advanced CHF, grade 2/6
              > murmur. Enalapril 2.5 mg 1x day, Fragmin .04 ml 2x/day subcu,
              lasix
              > 5mg 2x day. (Are considering adding Atenolol depending on blood
              > results)
            • jenanddeagan
              Deena, I m also wondering about coumadin (aka Warfarin). It is the most common drug we use in irregular heartbeats in humans (atrial fibrillation) where the
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 4, 2003
                Deena,

                I'm also wondering about coumadin (aka Warfarin). It is the most
                common drug we use in irregular heartbeats in humans (atrial
                fibrillation) where the risks of clots are for the same reasons in
                HCM (stagnant blood flow in atrium; predesposing to systemic
                clots). Coumadin has the disadvantage of requiring weekly blood
                tests (prothrombin times (PTT)) until a theraputic dose is reached,
                but is fairly stable after that point. In the short term it may be
                more expensive, but in the long term it may be the most economical.
                I'm not sure how widely used it is in HCM in cats, again, as a
                paramedic, my experience is entirely human based.

                I agree with one of the previous posts that drugs are cheaper here
                in Canada. If one of the online store cannot accomadate you, I
                could take a fax of the script and send it to you by priority post.
                Contact me if you would like to work something out.
                (lundgren_jennifer@...)

                Good Luck,

                jen
                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Deena" <mottola@c...> wrote:
                > I just went to get Mr. Pepe's Fragmin refilled and almost had an
                > embolism myself at the $500 bill. Are any alternatives which
                might
                > also prevent clot formation? I know he is high risk for clots,
                but
                > is Fragmin THAT much better than the cheaper anticoagulates? The
                > timing is horrible as I have an 8am ring time at the Boston Dog
                Show
                > tomorrow and a million things to do to get ready. I will have my
                > vet call the Tufts Cardiologist to see what else can be used. The
                > pharmacy will hold the Fragmin for a few days while I sort this
                > out.
                >
                > In the meantime, I am wondering what others use to prevent clots.
                I
                > picked up some baby aspirin, but am nervous to use it since he
                > is "supposedly" so sick: Mr. Pepe has severe HCM and advanced CHF,
                > but you would never know it. It's a good thing he can't read his
                > cardiology reports since none of the "white coats" can believe he
                is
                > still alive, let alone catching moths and bossing dogs around at
                > Rover Romp.
                >
                > Here's the stuff from his echo that might be important to figure
                out
                > which anticoagulant might work:
                > His LVW thickness, combined IVS & LVW thinckness, and LV
                myocardial
                > area are "off the chart" to the right. Papillary muscles are
                > extremely prominent. A moderator band was seen in the LV. The LA
                > is extremely enlarged with swirling "smoke" seen, NO CLOTS (yet)
                > were seen in the LA or LAA. Free wall is markedly thickened. LV
                > cavity size is not reduced. Trivial TR and MR noted. Mild
                > turbulence was seen in the PA and Ao. No Sam.
                >
                > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm also interested in
                > finding natural anticoagulants since my eventual plan is to see if
                I
                > can cut down on his allopathic meds if I can find alternative
                > solutions.
                >
                > Thanks. You guys are really great. I'm so sorry to hear about
                > Simba & Midgie. My heart goes out to you both. It's very scary
                for
                > me since these two kitties had very similar stories to Mr P and I
                > would hate for him to throw a clot because Mom was to cheap to get
                > the Fragmin. I've done some homework and I just don't see the
                added
                > benefit of Fragmin to justify the cost and everything I can find
                > says it is only used for short-term use. I was a sales rep for
                > a pharmaceutical company for years and know the tricks of the
                > trade. If Fragmin is the only appropriate med, then I'll have a
                > tough choice to make. But if there are alternative that are just
                as
                > good (or better), I want to know about them.
                >
                > Deena in Newburyport, MA
                > Mr. Pepe: Male, NFC, diagnosed 11/12/03 at 3 yrs, severe HCM,
                > restrictive,severely enlarged left atrium, advanced CHF, grade 2/6
                > murmur. Enalapril 2.5 mg 1x day, Fragmin .04 ml 2x/day subcu,
                lasix
                > 5mg 2x day. (Are considering adding Atenolol depending on blood
                > results)
              • Susan
                ... I ... Deena, If you go to Tuft s you might have an opportunity to talk to the vet nutritionist Dr. Lisa Freeman who wrote the Nutritional Modulation of
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 5, 2003
                  --- Deena <mottola@...> wrote:
                  I
                  > am very interested in picking your brain about
                  > Angell Memorial as an
                  > alternative to Tufts. I also would be interested in
                  > the U Penn
                  > research, so please forward whatever info you have.
                  >
                  >
                  Deena,

                  If you go to Tuft's you might have an opportunity to
                  talk to the vet nutritionist Dr. Lisa Freeman who
                  wrote the Nutritional Modulation of Cardiac Disease
                  article about cardiac cachexia on the WalthamUSA site.

                  My idea is that this list could act as a study group
                  for Dr. Freeman's research into the effects on
                  mortality of actively treating cardiac cachexia. In
                  layperson speak I think that would mean scrupulous
                  weighing of cats in CHF and increasing nutrition by
                  transitioning to maxiumum calorie convalescent
                  prescription foods before the animal loses weight and
                  becomes anorectic.

                  Susan

                  =====
                  Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19 months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling

                  __________________________________
                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
                  http://companion.yahoo.com/
                • Deena
                  ... Dr. Lisa Freeman, the vet nutritionist at Tufts wrote the Nutritional Modulation of Cardiac Disease article about cardiac cachexia on the WalthamUSA site.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 5, 2003
                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                    Dr. Lisa Freeman, the vet nutritionist at Tufts wrote the
                    Nutritional Modulation of Cardiac Disease article about cardiac
                    cachexia on the WalthamUSA site.
                    >
                    > My idea is that this list could act as a study group
                    > for Dr. Freeman's research into the effects on
                    > mortality of actively treating cardiac cachexia. In
                    > layperson speak I think that would mean scrupulous
                    > weighing of cats in CHF and increasing nutrition by
                    > transitioning to maxiumum calorie convalescent
                    > prescription foods before the animal loses weight and
                    > becomes anorectic.

                    I think this is an excellent idea, Susan. Would she also include the
                    raw fed cats? I understanding she is totally against a raw diet and
                    has written some articles. I realize a raw diet is not for
                    everyone, but many CHF cats thrive on it and this info should be
                    included.

                    Deena
                  • Jonathan Rosenberg
                    Coumadin is very problematic when used in cats. Besides the frequent blood testing you mention is the danger of undetected internal bleeding. Yes, humans
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 6, 2003
                      Coumadin is very problematic when used in cats. Besides the frequent blood
                      testing you mention is the danger of undetected internal bleeding. Yes,
                      humans face the same risk, but a human can do self-monitoring of his/her
                      condition & report any invisible symptoms. Cats are simply too "good" at
                      hiding problems & the risk of bleeding out is high.

                      --
                      Jonathan Rosenberg
                      President & Founder, Tabby's Place
                      http://www.tabbysplace.org/


                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: jenanddeagan [mailto:lundgren_jennifer@...]
                      > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 1:06 AM
                      > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [FH] Re: Help! Need an alternative to Fragmin (anticoagulant)
                      >
                      >
                      > Deena,
                      >
                      > I'm also wondering about coumadin (aka Warfarin). It is the most
                      > common drug we use in irregular heartbeats in humans (atrial
                      > fibrillation) where the risks of clots are for the same reasons in
                      > HCM (stagnant blood flow in atrium; predesposing to systemic
                      > clots). Coumadin has the disadvantage of requiring weekly blood
                      > tests (prothrombin times (PTT)) until a theraputic dose is reached,
                      > but is fairly stable after that point. In the short term it may be
                      > more expensive, but in the long term it may be the most economical.
                      > I'm not sure how widely used it is in HCM in cats, again, as a
                      > paramedic, my experience is entirely human based.
                      >
                      > I agree with one of the previous posts that drugs are cheaper here
                      > in Canada. If one of the online store cannot accomadate you, I
                      > could take a fax of the script and send it to you by priority post.
                      > Contact me if you would like to work something out.
                      > (lundgren_jennifer@...)
                      >
                      > Good Luck,
                      >
                      > jen
                      > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Deena" <mottola@c...> wrote:
                      > > I just went to get Mr. Pepe's Fragmin refilled and almost had an
                      > > embolism myself at the $500 bill. Are any alternatives which
                      > might
                      > > also prevent clot formation? I know he is high risk for clots,
                      > but
                      > > is Fragmin THAT much better than the cheaper anticoagulates? The
                      > > timing is horrible as I have an 8am ring time at the Boston Dog
                      > Show
                      > > tomorrow and a million things to do to get ready. I will have my
                      > > vet call the Tufts Cardiologist to see what else can be used. The
                      > > pharmacy will hold the Fragmin for a few days while I sort this
                      > > out.
                      > >
                      > > In the meantime, I am wondering what others use to prevent clots.
                      > I
                      > > picked up some baby aspirin, but am nervous to use it since he
                      > > is "supposedly" so sick: Mr. Pepe has severe HCM and advanced CHF,
                      > > but you would never know it. It's a good thing he can't read his
                      > > cardiology reports since none of the "white coats" can believe he
                      > is
                      > > still alive, let alone catching moths and bossing dogs around at
                      > > Rover Romp.
                      > >
                      > > Here's the stuff from his echo that might be important to figure
                      > out
                      > > which anticoagulant might work:
                      > > His LVW thickness, combined IVS & LVW thinckness, and LV
                      > myocardial
                      > > area are "off the chart" to the right. Papillary muscles are
                      > > extremely prominent. A moderator band was seen in the LV. The LA
                      > > is extremely enlarged with swirling "smoke" seen, NO CLOTS (yet)
                      > > were seen in the LA or LAA. Free wall is markedly thickened. LV
                      > > cavity size is not reduced. Trivial TR and MR noted. Mild
                      > > turbulence was seen in the PA and Ao. No Sam.
                      > >
                      > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm also interested in
                      > > finding natural anticoagulants since my eventual plan is to see if
                      > I
                      > > can cut down on his allopathic meds if I can find alternative
                      > > solutions.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks. You guys are really great. I'm so sorry to hear about
                      > > Simba & Midgie. My heart goes out to you both. It's very scary
                      > for
                      > > me since these two kitties had very similar stories to Mr P and I
                      > > would hate for him to throw a clot because Mom was to cheap to get
                      > > the Fragmin. I've done some homework and I just don't see the
                      > added
                      > > benefit of Fragmin to justify the cost and everything I can find
                      > > says it is only used for short-term use. I was a sales rep for
                      > > a pharmaceutical company for years and know the tricks of the
                      > > trade. If Fragmin is the only appropriate med, then I'll have a
                      > > tough choice to make. But if there are alternative that are just
                      > as
                      > > good (or better), I want to know about them.
                      > >
                      > > Deena in Newburyport, MA
                      > > Mr. Pepe: Male, NFC, diagnosed 11/12/03 at 3 yrs, severe HCM,
                      > > restrictive,severely enlarged left atrium, advanced CHF, grade 2/6
                      > > murmur. Enalapril 2.5 mg 1x day, Fragmin .04 ml 2x/day subcu,
                      > lasix
                      > > 5mg 2x day. (Are considering adding Atenolol depending on blood
                      > > results)
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > ---------------------~-->
                      > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                      > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the
                      > US & Canada.
                      > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                      > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/Zh0wlB/TM
                      > --------------------------------------------------------------
                      > -------~->
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Steph
                      My cardiologist tried BD on coumadin, but we had to take him off of it due to other problems. It *can* be used with relative safety with very strict
                      Message 10 of 11 , Dec 6, 2003
                        My cardiologist tried BD on coumadin, but we had to take him off of it
                        due to other problems. It *can* be used with relative safety with very
                        strict monitoring. Conservative doses are important, along with running
                        clotting times frequently *even* when the pet is regulated.

                        We tested BD's PT weekly for almost a month, then tapered to monthly.

                        BD was on coumadin for over a year and did very well on it, until he
                        crashed out in Dec. of last year and became inappetant (IBD kicked in,
                        and his levels went all screwy) We took him off any drug that could
                        suppress appetite or contribute to his problems at that time.. Coumadin
                        dosage is very dependant on weight and other factors, and he isn't a
                        good candidate for that drug due to his other diseases. To me, the risk
                        of throwing a clot for a long time outweighed the risk of coumadin
                        therapy. I'm actually quite nervous not having him on coumadin at this
                        time.

                        Some vets will use heparin therapy, but from my understanding this is
                        not a permanent solution and not as effective in the long term.

                        Steph


                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: jenanddeagan [mailto:lundgren_jennifer@...]
                        > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 1:06 AM
                        > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [FH] Re: Help! Need an alternative to Fragmin (anticoagulant)
                        >
                        >
                        > Deena,
                        >
                        > I'm also wondering about coumadin (aka Warfarin). It is the most
                        > common drug we use in irregular heartbeats in humans (atrial
                        > fibrillation) where the risks of clots are for the same reasons in
                        > HCM (stagnant blood flow in atrium; predesposing to systemic
                        > clots). Coumadin has the disadvantage of requiring weekly blood
                        > tests (prothrombin times (PTT)) until a theraputic dose is reached,
                        > but is fairly stable after that point. In the short term it may be
                        > more expensive, but in the long term it may be the most economical.
                        > I'm not sure how widely used it is in HCM in cats, again, as a
                        > paramedic, my experience is entirely human based.
                        >
                        > I agree with one of the previous posts that drugs are cheaper here
                        > in Canada. If one of the online store cannot accomadate you, I
                        > could take a fax of the script and send it to you by priority post.
                        > Contact me if you would like to work something out.
                        > (lundgren_jennifer@...)
                        >
                        > Good Luck,
                        >
                        > jen
                        > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Deena" <mottola@c...> wrote:
                        > > I just went to get Mr. Pepe's Fragmin refilled and almost had an
                        > > embolism myself at the $500 bill. Are any alternatives which
                        > might
                        > > also prevent clot formation? I know he is high risk for clots,
                        > but
                        > > is Fragmin THAT much better than the cheaper anticoagulates? The
                        > > timing is horrible as I have an 8am ring time at the Boston Dog
                        > Show
                        > > tomorrow and a million things to do to get ready. I will have my
                        > > vet call the Tufts Cardiologist to see what else can be used. The
                        > > pharmacy will hold the Fragmin for a few days while I sort this
                        > > out.
                        > >
                        > > In the meantime, I am wondering what others use to prevent clots.
                        > I
                        > > picked up some baby aspirin, but am nervous to use it since he
                        > > is "supposedly" so sick: Mr. Pepe has severe HCM and advanced CHF,
                        > > but you would never know it. It's a good thing he can't read his
                        > > cardiology reports since none of the "white coats" can believe he
                        > is
                        > > still alive, let alone catching moths and bossing dogs around at
                        > > Rover Romp.
                        > >
                        > > Here's the stuff from his echo that might be important to figure
                        > out
                        > > which anticoagulant might work:
                        > > His LVW thickness, combined IVS & LVW thinckness, and LV
                        > myocardial
                        > > area are "off the chart" to the right. Papillary muscles are
                        > > extremely prominent. A moderator band was seen in the LV. The LA
                        > > is extremely enlarged with swirling "smoke" seen, NO CLOTS (yet)
                        > > were seen in the LA or LAA. Free wall is markedly thickened. LV
                        > > cavity size is not reduced. Trivial TR and MR noted. Mild
                        > > turbulence was seen in the PA and Ao. No Sam.
                        > >
                        > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm also interested in
                        > > finding natural anticoagulants since my eventual plan is to see if
                        > I
                        > > can cut down on his allopathic meds if I can find alternative
                        > > solutions.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks. You guys are really great. I'm so sorry to hear about
                        > > Simba & Midgie. My heart goes out to you both. It's very scary
                        > for
                        > > me since these two kitties had very similar stories to Mr P and I
                        > > would hate for him to throw a clot because Mom was to cheap to get
                        > > the Fragmin. I've done some homework and I just don't see the
                        > added
                        > > benefit of Fragmin to justify the cost and everything I can find
                        > > says it is only used for short-term use. I was a sales rep for
                        > > a pharmaceutical company for years and know the tricks of the
                        > > trade. If Fragmin is the only appropriate med, then I'll have a
                        > > tough choice to make. But if there are alternative that are just
                        > as
                        > > good (or better), I want to know about them.
                        > >
                        > > Deena in Newburyport, MA
                        > > Mr. Pepe: Male, NFC, diagnosed 11/12/03 at 3 yrs, severe HCM,
                        > > restrictive,severely enlarged left atrium, advanced CHF, grade 2/6
                        > > murmur. Enalapril 2.5 mg 1x day, Fragmin .04 ml 2x/day subcu,
                        > lasix
                        > > 5mg 2x day. (Are considering adding Atenolol depending on blood
                        > > results)
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > ---------------------~-->
                        > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                        > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the
                        > US & Canada.
                        > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                        > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/Zh0wlB/TM
                        > --------------------------------------------------------------
                        > -------~->
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >




                        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

                        ADVERTISEMENT

                        <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cg757u0/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=eg
                        roupweb/S=1707296857:HM/EXP=1070805427/A=1853618/R=0/*http://www.netflix
                        .com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116732> click here

                        <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egrou
                        pmail/S=:HM/A=1853618/rand=614897547>

                        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                        <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Steph Schoff
                        In regards to Coumadin/Warfarin, our cardiologist told us that initially it may increase the chance of a clot forming. -Steph http://www.gussielou.com Please
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 6, 2003
                          In regards to Coumadin/Warfarin, our cardiologist told us that
                          initially it may increase the chance of a clot forming.

                          -Steph
                          http://www.gussielou.com

                          Please support the Winn Feline Foundation - Feline Hypertrophic
                          Cardiomyopathy Research

                          http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/ricky-fund.html

                          In memory of Gus 10/31/98 - 6/13/03
                          The Best Kitty Ever
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.