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RE: [feline-heart] Blood clot?

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  • Jonathan Rosenberg
    ... Yes, my terminology was sloppy. Someone else already pointed this out. ... I challenge you to point out even one erroneous point in my post (except for my
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
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      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Bogdan Bilyk [mailto:bb11248@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:54 PM
      > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [feline-heart] Blood clot?

      > Jonathan, the ONLY homeopathic remedy that I used was Rescue Remedy.

      Yes, my terminology was sloppy. Someone else already pointed this out.

      > The rest were herbs and vitamins which have been researched and
      > studied. If you would put in some thought and understanding into
      > what you read, like a good scientist is supposed to do, you would
      > not have written your erroneous post and wasted both of our times.

      I challenge you to point out even one erroneous point in my post (except for
      my incorrect use of the term "homeopathic").

      Furthermore, I'm not sure why you're so upset. I never said that the
      remedies you used didn't work. I stated that no study I have seen has shown
      that there is any way to improve on a cat's natural ability to deal with
      blood clots. If you know of a scientific study that shows otherwise, I'm
      sure we would all love to see the reference. This would be a major
      breakthrough in dealing with blood clots in cats.

      > Faith can be blind, science is based on trial and error studies
      > that show what works and what doesn't on a repeatable
      > basis.

      At least we agree on something.

      > Just because you may not have heard of some of those nutrients

      I have heard of all of these nutrients.

      > that I used does not make them any less valid. It just demonstrates
      > a paucity of knowledge about those substances on your part.

      I am more than willing, even anxious, to have my paucity reversed. Please
      point us at any scientific studies that show the efficiacy of the herbs you
      mentioned & their claimed benefits:

      - cayenne stimulates the cardiovascular system and helps break up
      clots
      - bayberry heals paralysis in animals (and humans)
      - carnitine provides energy to the cells that could not get
      nutrients due to the clot
      - Rescue Remedy calms the animal down during stress

      > Good luck with your 'limited' knowledge of 'science'.

      I am hoping that you will do more than wish me luck. I am hoping that you
      can help me learn by responding with appropriate references to studies.

      --
      JR
      & Tabby (RB), Lynx (RB), Licorice, Tigger
    • Voula Augerinos
      Hi Jonathan, ... Dear Jonathan, I write this in a light hearted and non-adversarial way. Your statement reminded me so much of our allopathic vet, who I have
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
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        Hi Jonathan,

        You wrote :

        >it is undeniable that virtually all
        > of the advances in quality of life that our cats enjoy today is due to
        > use
        > of the scientific method (in which hyoptheses are cerafully tested,
        > etc.).

        Dear Jonathan, I write this in a light hearted and non-adversarial
        way. Your statement reminded me so much of our allopathic vet, who I have
        tremendous affection for.
        His favourite saying is "show me the statistics", when I talk about herbal
        medicine to him. LOL! I just keep talking and he just keeps rolling his
        eyes. In the end we are rolling our eyes at each other! LOL!

        Lots of Love.

        Love, Voula and Pebbles and Lucy and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
      • Jonathan Rosenberg
        ... I appreciate the note. And I m not suggesting that everything in life comes down to science . Certainly the love I feel for my cats (+ the cats at the
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
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          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Voula Augerinos [mailto:catwoman1@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 9:14 PM
          > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Blood clot?

          > > it is undeniable that virtually all of the advances in quality
          > > of life that our cats enjoy today is due to use
          > > of the scientific method (in which hyoptheses are cerafully tested,
          > > etc.).

          > Dear Jonathan, I write this in a light hearted and non-adversarial
          > way. Your statement reminded me so much of our allopathic vet, who I have
          > tremendous affection for.
          > His favourite saying is "show me the statistics", when I talk about herbal
          > medicine to him. LOL! I just keep talking and he just keeps rolling his
          > eyes. In the end we are rolling our eyes at each other! LOL!

          I appreciate the note. And I'm not suggesting that everything in life comes
          down to "science". Certainly the love I feel for my cats (+ the cats at the
          shelter where I volunteer + Pebbles + all cats, to be frank) has no
          scientific explanation.

          And I never suggested that people should avoid non-allopathic remedies. I
          was responding to the original post with the viewpoint of modern science.
          That stimulated an attack from the original poster claiming that my post was
          erroneous & a waste of time & that I have a limited knowledge of science.

          I'm quite open minded & I simply asked the originator to back up his/her
          claims. Believe me, I would love to be wrong & find that there is a viable
          way to treat blood clots in cats. It's a devastating disease.

          > Lots of Love.
          > Love, Voula and Pebbles and Lucy and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.

          --
          JR
          & Tabby (RB), Lynx (RB), Licorice, Tigger
        • Bogdan Bilyk
          Jonathan, I apologise. I did not mean to attack you. Sometimes I do come across as a little bit sarcastic. For that, I am sorry. A good starting point for
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
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            Jonathan, I apologise. I did not mean to attack you. Sometimes I do come
            across as a little bit sarcastic. For that, I am sorry. A good starting
            point for treating cat's would be the following url:
            http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1158/feline.htm
            As for Cayenne, although I can't list any studies that have been done on
            animals or people, because it would take an inordinate amount of time to
            search for all of the references, there is some good information here:
            http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1158/cayenne.htm
            from Dr. Schulze. he has treated many people with cayenne and I have heard
            of no negative references about cayenne when using this herb on animals.
            That is why I used it on my cat. What did I or the cat have to lose? After
            all, the vet just wanted to put the cat away. I have used cayenne on myself
            for several years and I knew what positive benefits it has had on me, so I
            naturally decide to use it on my cat and it worked. My cat is healthy and
            running around driving me nuts. A joyful nuts, because I do love the little
            bum. His name is INKY because he is coal black. And now, he is also healthy
            AND alive because I did NOT listen to the vet and I treated him myself with
            herbs, vitamins and a homeopathic product. There ARE situations that should
            be handled by a vet, but in this case, the vet wanted to put him away so I
            decided to treat him myself and succeeded.


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          • Voula Augerinos
            Dear Jonathan, ... comes ... the ... You are right. Love is beyond everything. Love, Voula and Pebbles (thanks for loving me Jonathan!) and Lucy (he loves me
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
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              Dear Jonathan,

              You wrote :
              > I appreciate the note. And I'm not suggesting that everything in life
              comes
              > down to "science". Certainly the love I feel for my cats (+ the cats at
              the
              > shelter where I volunteer + Pebbles + all cats, to be frank) has no
              > scientific explanation.

              You are right. Love is beyond everything.

              Love, Voula and Pebbles (thanks for loving me Jonathan!) and Lucy (he loves
              me too! yay!) and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
            • Mike & Linda Irrgang (Now in Jamaica!)
              Personally, I have always found all the info on this site very informative and everyone very open-minded...I think we are all just trying to share what we can
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
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                Personally, I have always found all the info on this site very informative
                and everyone very open-minded...I think we are all just trying to share what
                we can to help each other work thru what are less than ideal
                situations....situations which I am sure, most of us, especially our poor
                pets, would rather have been spared....I for one want to hear about anything
                and everything that may even remotely have the possibility of helping my
                kitty.

                Pls keep all info coming!

                Linda, Pum and Max



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Bogdan Bilyk [mailto:bb11248@...]
                Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:54 PM
                To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                Subject: RE: [feline-heart] Blood clot?


                Jonathan, the ONLY homeopathic remedy that I used was Rescue Remedy. The
                rest were herbs and vitamins which have been researched and studied. If you
                would put in some thought and understanding into what you read, like a good
                scientist is supposed to do, you would not have written your erroneous post
                and wasted both of our times. Faith can be blind, science is based on trial
                and error studies that show what works and what doesn't on a repeatable
                basis. Just because you may not have heard of some of those nutrients that I
                used does not make them any less valid. It just demonstrates a paucity of
                knowledge about those substances on your part. Good luck with your 'limited'
                knowledge of 'science'.


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              • joe.weissmann@uc.edu
                Bogdan, kindly point us to the scientific studies and research you ve found in regards to dealing with the effects on felines, of the herbs and vitamins you
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 5, 2001
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                  Bogdan, kindly point us to the scientific studies and research you've
                  found in regards to dealing with the effects on felines, of the herbs
                  and vitamins you used in treating blod clots, specifically Saddle
                  Thrombus.

                  Thanks, Joe Weissmann



                  --- In feline-heart@egroups.com, "Bogdan Bilyk" <bb11248@h...> wrote:
                  > Jonathan, the ONLY homeopathic remedy that I used was Rescue Remedy.
                  The
                  > rest were herbs and vitamins which have been researched and studied.
                  If you
                  > would put in some thought and understanding into what you read, like
                  a good
                  > scientist is supposed to do, you would not have written your
                  erroneous post
                  > and wasted both of our times. Faith can be blind, science is based
                  on trial
                  > and error studies that show what works and what doesn't on a
                  repeatable
                  > basis. Just because you may not have heard of some of those
                  nutrients that I
                  > used does not make them any less valid. It just demonstrates a
                  paucity of
                  > knowledge about those substances on your part. Good luck with your
                  'limited'
                  > knowledge of 'science'.
                  >
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                • Bogdan Bilyk
                  Joe, see my reply to Jonathan. ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 5, 2001
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                    Joe, see my reply to Jonathan.


                    >From: joe.weissmann@...
                    >Reply-To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                    >To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                    >Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Blood clot?
                    >Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:25:20 -0000
                    >
                    >Bogdan, kindly point us to the scientific studies and research you've
                    >found in regards to dealing with the effects on felines, of the herbs
                    >and vitamins you used in treating blod clots, specifically Saddle
                    >Thrombus.
                    >
                    >Thanks, Joe Weissmann
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >--- In feline-heart@egroups.com, "Bogdan Bilyk" <bb11248@h...> wrote:
                    > > Jonathan, the ONLY homeopathic remedy that I used was Rescue Remedy.
                    >The
                    > > rest were herbs and vitamins which have been researched and studied.
                    >If you
                    > > would put in some thought and understanding into what you read, like
                    >a good
                    > > scientist is supposed to do, you would not have written your
                    >erroneous post
                    > > and wasted both of our times. Faith can be blind, science is based
                    >on trial
                    > > and error studies that show what works and what doesn't on a
                    >repeatable
                    > > basis. Just because you may not have heard of some of those
                    >nutrients that I
                    > > used does not make them any less valid. It just demonstrates a
                    >paucity of
                    > > knowledge about those substances on your part. Good luck with your
                    >'limited'
                    > > knowledge of 'science'.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > _________________________________________________________________
                    > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                    >

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