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Bacterial contamination & Parasites was raw organ meats

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  • Susan
    ... Brigitte, I asked the question regarding raw organ meats on the vetlearn.com bulletin board and they brought up both bacterial contamination and parasites.
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 2 7:18 AM
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      --- bcowell <bcowell@...> wrote:
      >> I'd rather they ate cooked meat, but instead I am
      > just extremely
      > careful with the fresh meat. I'm a microbiologist
      > and quite paranoid
      > about bacteria!
      > Brigitte


      Brigitte,

      I asked the question regarding raw organ meats on the
      vetlearn.com bulletin board and they brought up both
      bacterial contamination and parasites. I mentioned I
      had the OK from IM vet to feed raw baby clams and a
      vet said he was not aware of any parasites in clams
      but wasn't sure. I know I read somewhere once that
      organ meats contain concentrated amounts of anything
      bad the animal may have consumed or been exposed to
      and of course organ meats are sinfully high in
      cholesteral. ALSO it took an anthropologist to
      discover the brain wasting disease Kuru in New
      Guineau was transmitted because elderly females were
      practicing cannibalism of brain tissue. I keep
      thinking that the issue of organ meats is more complex
      than it may seem on the surface.

      Susan

      Susan

      =====
      Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19 months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling

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    • Wathey, Lisa
      Hey Brigitte, what do you think of the books that recommend treating the meat with grapefruit-seed extract to kill the bacteria (or anything else). Is it
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 2 8:39 AM
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        Hey Brigitte, what do you think of the books that recommend "treating" the meat with grapefruit-seed extract to kill the bacteria (or anything else). Is it the acidic environment that would do it? I have just been buying Barney good quality meat at Whole foods but am concerned about it. Is there anything we can do to make it safer? Lisa W.



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      • Shirley G.
        ... the HCM cat please tell me because my vet is on vacation. I cannot eat organ meat and I love chicken livers and beef liver but it is bad for my cholesterol
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 2 8:43 AM
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          ---Organ meats is very high in cholesterol if that is dangerous to
          the HCM cat please tell me because my vet is on vacation. I cannot
          eat organ meat and I love chicken livers and beef liver but it is bad
          for my cholesterol and heart so it is not
          permitted.

          In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
          >
          > --- bcowell <bcowell@y...> wrote:
          > >> I'd rather they ate cooked meat, but instead I am
          > > just extremely
          > > careful with the fresh meat. I'm a microbiologist
          > > and quite paranoid
          > > about bacteria!
          > > Brigitte
          >
          >
          > Brigitte,
          >
          > I asked the question regarding raw organ meats on the
          > vetlearn.com bulletin board and they brought up both
          > bacterial contamination and parasites. I mentioned I
          > had the OK from IM vet to feed raw baby clams and a
          > vet said he was not aware of any parasites in clams
          > but wasn't sure. I know I read somewhere once that
          > organ meats contain concentrated amounts of anything
          > bad the animal may have consumed or been exposed to
          > and of course organ meats are sinfully high in
          > cholesteral. ALSO it took an anthropologist to
          > discover the brain wasting disease Kuru in New
          > Guineau was transmitted because elderly females were
          > practicing cannibalism of brain tissue. I keep
          > thinking that the issue of organ meats is more complex
          > than it may seem on the surface.
          >
          > Susan
          >
          > Susan
          >
          > =====
          > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
          months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
          heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg
          Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
          > http://sbc.yahoo.com
        • bcowell
          Susan, I would never want to feed a lot of liver for the cholesterol issue, this is an organ that concentrates fats and is not necessarily so good. It is also
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 2 3:19 PM
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            Susan,
            I would never want to feed a lot of liver for the cholesterol issue,
            this is an organ that concentrates fats and is not necessarily so
            good. It is also the organ that filters, so it is the one that
            collects stuff like heavy metals and toxins. The heart is not one of
            those organs. I think it is hard to generalize about organs when they
            have such different functions. For example, the brain, it is quite a
            different tissue from the heart. The brain is related to transmission
            of prions such as Kuru as you say, but there is no data suggesting
            that eating of hearts would do the same.
            So I feed hearts and gizzards but not liver. Liver is often fed to
            fatten animals, and i guess that is because of it's high fat content.
            I asked both my vet and vet cardiologist about the feeding of hearts
            and gizzards and they were only positive. I did not want to feed
            these meats to my cats before I checked, but hearts had been
            recommended for taurine and gizzards for teeth cleaning.
            All meat we buy has an issue of bacterial contamination, especially
            chicken. But it is important to remember that the same bacteria that
            give us gastrointestinal disease from eating contaminated foods are
            not the same ones that affect our cats and dogs.
            Brigitte


            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
            >
            > --- bcowell <bcowell@y...> wrote:
            > >> I'd rather they ate cooked meat, but instead I am
            > > just extremely
            > > careful with the fresh meat. I'm a microbiologist
            > > and quite paranoid
            > > about bacteria!
            > > Brigitte
            >
            >
            > Brigitte,
            >
            > I asked the question regarding raw organ meats on the
            > vetlearn.com bulletin board and they brought up both
            > bacterial contamination and parasites. I mentioned I
            > had the OK from IM vet to feed raw baby clams and a
            > vet said he was not aware of any parasites in clams
            > but wasn't sure. I know I read somewhere once that
            > organ meats contain concentrated amounts of anything
            > bad the animal may have consumed or been exposed to
            > and of course organ meats are sinfully high in
            > cholesteral. ALSO it took an anthropologist to
            > discover the brain wasting disease Kuru in New
            > Guineau was transmitted because elderly females were
            > practicing cannibalism of brain tissue. I keep
            > thinking that the issue of organ meats is more complex
            > than it may seem on the surface.
            >
            > Susan
            >
            > Susan
            >
            > =====
            > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
            months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
            heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg
            Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
            > http://sbc.yahoo.com
          • bcowell
            Lisa, I hadn t heard of using grapefruit-seed extract. There are a number of things that would kill most bacteria (never all, really only autoclaving or
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 2 3:26 PM
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              Lisa,
              I hadn't heard of using grapefruit-seed extract. There are a number
              of things that would kill most bacteria (never all, really only
              autoclaving or pressure cooking would do that). It could be acid in
              the extract I would think, one of the issues is will your cat still
              eat it after treatment? Maybe you could try adding the extract and
              see how much it changes the look and smell of it.
              I know a lot of cat breeders that feed chicken drop the raw chicken
              legs in boiling water for 3 minutes... it leaves the inside raw but
              somewhat sterilizes the outside. One breeder even drops in frozen raw
              chicken.
              I buy chicken at Whole Foods also for Bobo, I figure it's the best
              available for me, so it is good for him too. To be safe, I don't buy
              budget chicken, and I buy the chicken every other day so it is as
              fresh as possible. If we had a bigger freezer I would probably
              stockpile it so I didn't have to go grocery shopping all the time.
              Brigitte

              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Wathey, Lisa" <ljw@r...> wrote:
              > Hey Brigitte, what do you think of the books that
              recommend "treating" the meat with grapefruit-seed extract to kill
              the bacteria (or anything else). Is it the acidic environment that
              would do it? I have just been buying Barney good quality meat at
              Whole foods but am concerned about it. Is there anything we can do
              to make it safer? Lisa W.
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              >
              >
              >
              > This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the
              addressee(s) only and may be confidential and covered by the
              attorney/client and other privileges. If the reader is not the
              intended recipient, DO NOT READ, notify sender and delete this
              message. In addition, be aware that any disclosure, copying,
              distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly
              prohibited.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Susan
              ... You may want to try baby clams for taurine (really high) and they are quite chewy so I imagine they are good for teeth. The iodine content is comparable to
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 3 8:09 AM
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                --- bcowell <bcowell@...> wrote:
                > I asked both my vet and vet cardiologist about the
                > feeding of hearts
                > and gizzards and they were only positive. I did not
                > want to feed
                > these meats to my cats before I checked, but hearts
                > had been
                > recommended for taurine and gizzards for teeth
                > cleaning.

                You may want to try baby clams for taurine (really
                high) and they are quite chewy so I imagine they are
                good for teeth. The iodine content is comparable to
                chicken. Could Red Tide affect canned baby clams that
                you know of?

                > All meat we buy has an issue of bacterial
                > contamination, especially
                > chicken.

                I am going to try beef heart. Rudy doesn't like any
                chicken.

                But it is important to remember that the
                > same bacteria that
                > give us gastrointestinal disease from eating
                > contaminated foods are
                > not the same ones that affect our cats and dogs.


                I personally would worry most about feeding raw in the
                context of the members of this list to any cats who
                are suffering from cardiac cachexia since it does have
                an effect on immune system function.

                Some seafood recipes call for marinating in lemon
                juice as that precooks the seafood. I wonder if this
                could be a way to feed raw without baterial worry,
                afterall it is the heat that distroys vitamins.

                Do you have access to the full text articles that
                PubMed lists abstracts for?

                Susan


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              • bcowell
                Hi Susan, I ll try the baby clams. I am thinking that little Karamu will love them as she loves most food forms, but Bobo hasn t liked any fishy things I ve
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 3 2:03 PM
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                  Hi Susan,
                  I'll try the baby clams. I am thinking that little Karamu will love
                  them as she loves most food forms, but Bobo hasn't liked any fishy
                  things I've tried so he'll most likely not be interested. He's so
                  finicky and of course he's my heart kitty (mitral valve dysplasia).
                  Red Tide is an algal profusion isn't it? Can't see that that would be
                  bad, but I would want to do a search on it... I'll try to today. I
                  can't spend too much time at the computer...I fell down the stairs a
                  couple days ago and can't really sit down still.
                  Marinating in lemon juice would probably do a lot to kill most
                  bacteria. I think some can survive, after all food-borne pathogens
                  survive going through the stomach before causing trouble in your
                  intestines. For example, the bacteria that causes dysentery is
                  resistant to stomach acid, while the more common Salmonella and
                  Vibrio (seafood) are susceptible. So it most likely would be good,
                  but you would then have to see if your cat was interested in lemon-
                  flavored meat!
                  As to PubMed, I used to have access when I was working at the
                  university, and for a bit after I quit (I started questioning what I
                  was doing with my life). The university changed its system and the
                  passwords changed. I've been trying to get my ex-mentor to get me new
                  ID, but she's not so computer savvy so I think I will have to go
                  visit her to see if it can be worked out. Sorry I can't be of help
                  with that right now :(
                  Brigitte

                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- bcowell <bcowell@y...> wrote:
                  > > I asked both my vet and vet cardiologist about the
                  > > feeding of hearts
                  > > and gizzards and they were only positive. I did not
                  > > want to feed
                  > > these meats to my cats before I checked, but hearts
                  > > had been
                  > > recommended for taurine and gizzards for teeth
                  > > cleaning.
                  >
                  > You may want to try baby clams for taurine (really
                  > high) and they are quite chewy so I imagine they are
                  > good for teeth. The iodine content is comparable to
                  > chicken. Could Red Tide affect canned baby clams that
                  > you know of?
                  >
                  > > All meat we buy has an issue of bacterial
                  > > contamination, especially
                  > > chicken.
                  >
                  > I am going to try beef heart. Rudy doesn't like any
                  > chicken.
                  >
                  > But it is important to remember that the
                  > > same bacteria that
                  > > give us gastrointestinal disease from eating
                  > > contaminated foods are
                  > > not the same ones that affect our cats and dogs.
                  >
                  >
                  > I personally would worry most about feeding raw in the
                  > context of the members of this list to any cats who
                  > are suffering from cardiac cachexia since it does have
                  > an effect on immune system function.
                  >
                  > Some seafood recipes call for marinating in lemon
                  > juice as that precooks the seafood. I wonder if this
                  > could be a way to feed raw without baterial worry,
                  > afterall it is the heat that distroys vitamins.
                  >
                  > Do you have access to the full text articles that
                  > PubMed lists abstracts for?
                  >
                  > Susan
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
                  > http://sbc.yahoo.com
                • Myra DeTate
                  My hubby found some canned baby clams today at our regular grocery with the ingredients of clams, water, salt, citric acid . Sounds like they are already
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 3 5:22 PM
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                    My hubby found some canned baby clams today at our regular grocery
                    with the ingredients of "clams, water, salt, citric acid". Sounds
                    like they are already marinated. Our Bob loved them!!! I just
                    poured the can out in a collandar & rinsed very well. I only gave
                    him 4 (really small). Trying to keep them for a pill treat. Thanks
                    for the suggestions.

                    Lots of Kitty Kisses,
                    Myra & Bob
                    --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "bcowell" <bcowell@y...> wrote:
                    > Hi Susan,
                    > I'll try the baby clams. ,
                    > but you would then have to see if your cat was interested in lemon-
                    > flavored meat!
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