Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Blood clot?

Expand Messages
  • felinefine2day@aol.com
    Hi all- I am new to this group. My 18 yr. old cat was diagnosed in the beginning of CRF 2 mos. ago. Have been do required treatments for this. Anyway,
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi all-
      I am new to this group. My 18 yr. old cat was diagnosed in the
      beginning of CRF 2 mos. ago. Have been do required treatments for
      this. Anyway, yesterday she had trouble walking. Then her right front
      paw and leg swelled to 3x's normal size. My regular vet is away. the
      one covering for him said this is a blood clot and cannot treat it
      with aspirin due to failing kidneys.Offered me no options- clot will
      pass or cat will be in constant pain and I need to make a decision
      based on this. He was talking euthanasia. He said he is 95% sure this
      is a clot. I did not euthanise but left her in hospital overnight for
      IV and steroid injection. I am getting her out today and going to an
      emergency hospital for a 2nd opinion. Any feedback regarding this
      would be greatly appreciated. The swelling has not gone done. She
      also had a temp yesterday of 103.6. This vet also gave her 350 ml. of
      subQ's all in the same spot-neck area. I don't know if any of this is
      relative- but I am not comfortable with this vet's diagnosis or lack
      there-of. Please respond.
      Thank you,
      Debbi & Screamer
    • Laura Penny
      Hi Debbie, I read your notes on the CRF list (I m one of the many with cats with multiple problems). I m sorry you re going thru a tough time now; I also had a
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Debbie,

        I read your notes on the CRF list (I'm one of the many with cats with
        multiple problems). I'm sorry you're going thru a tough time now; I also had
        a CRF cat who had blood clots.

        The first thing that I thought about when I read about Screamer was that
        Kassy also developed a huge purple lump, not after sub-Qs but after a blood
        draw. Her back leg was very sore and the swelling and bruise took about a
        week to go away. The vet said it was a hematoma from the blood clotting, but
        did not mention the type of blood clot that appears in cats with
        cardiomyopathy.

        Have they definitely ruled out a hematoma?

        If it truly was a blood clot, I have two thoughts:

        1) I don't think aspirin is going to shut down her kidneys if used
        conservatively. All three of my cats have/had CRF and heart disease, and the
        cardiologist and vet OK'd baby aspirin in all three cases.

        2) What about Coumadin? It's scary to use at home because of the risk of
        bleeding, but in a controlled situation at the vet, I don't know why they
        can't use it.

        I've been thinking about you and Screamer. I hope this helps.

        Laura, Lucky, Kassy & Angel Annie

        -----Original Message-----
        From: felinefine2day@... <felinefine2day@...>
        To: feline-heart@egroups.com <feline-heart@egroups.com>
        Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001 9:15 AM
        Subject: [feline-heart] Blood clot?


        >Hi all-
        > I am new to this group. My 18 yr. old cat was diagnosed in the
        >beginning of CRF 2 mos. ago. Have been do required treatments for
        >this. Anyway, yesterday she had trouble walking. Then her right front
        >paw and leg swelled to 3x's normal size. My regular vet is away. the
        >one covering for him said this is a blood clot and cannot treat it
        >with aspirin due to failing kidneys.Offered me no options- clot will
        >pass or cat will be in constant pain and I need to make a decision
        >based on this. He was talking euthanasia. He said he is 95% sure this
        >is a clot. I did not euthanise but left her in hospital overnight for
        >IV and steroid injection. I am getting her out today and going to an
        >emergency hospital for a 2nd opinion. Any feedback regarding this
        >would be greatly appreciated. The swelling has not gone done. She
        >also had a temp yesterday of 103.6. This vet also gave her 350 ml. of
        >subQ's all in the same spot-neck area. I don't know if any of this is
        >relative- but I am not comfortable with this vet's diagnosis or lack
        >there-of. Please respond.
        > Thank you,
        > Debbi & Screamer
        >
        >
        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        >
        >
        >
      • Jonathan Rosenberg
        I rechecked some of the literature & it does mention swelling as a possible symptom of a blood clot. I should have checked before sending my mail last night.
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          I rechecked some of the literature & it does mention swelling as a possible
          symptom of a blood clot. I should have checked before sending my mail last
          night.

          Other symptoms are cold toes, cyanotic nail beds & weak/non-existent pulse
          in the affected leg. Did the vet mention these symptoms? If these aren't
          present, I'd be suspicious of the diagnosis. The cold toes were VERY
          obvious when Lynx threw hos clots.

          In any case, here's a few thoughts:

          1) It IS possible to definitvely to diagnose a blood clot, but it is
          difficult as it requires some specialized machinery (a doppler blood test,
          or something like that). If there's any way you could get him to a clinic
          with one of those, it might be worth it (IMHO).

          2) There is no feasible treatment to dissolve a blood clot. The cat's body
          must deal with the clot on its own. Aspirin IS usually given, but that does
          nothing to the existing clot. it is given in hopes of preventing future
          clots.

          3) The vast majority of cats (85%) that throw clots have heart disease.
          Doers Screamer have any such history?

          4) Improvement is usually seen within a few days to weeks, but it can take
          many weeks for full recovery.

          Lynx recovered completely from all 3 of his blood clots. I pray that your
          boy does as well.

          Please keep us informed.

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: felinefine2day@... [mailto:felinefine2day@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 9:16 AM
          > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
          > Subject: [feline-heart] Blood clot?
          >
          >
          > Hi all-
          > I am new to this group. My 18 yr. old cat was diagnosed in the
          > beginning of CRF 2 mos. ago. Have been do required treatments for
          > this. Anyway, yesterday she had trouble walking. Then her right front
          > paw and leg swelled to 3x's normal size. My regular vet is away. the
          > one covering for him said this is a blood clot and cannot treat it
          > with aspirin due to failing kidneys.Offered me no options- clot will
          > pass or cat will be in constant pain and I need to make a decision
          > based on this. He was talking euthanasia. He said he is 95% sure this
          > is a clot. I did not euthanise but left her in hospital overnight for
          > IV and steroid injection. I am getting her out today and going to an
          > emergency hospital for a 2nd opinion. Any feedback regarding this
          > would be greatly appreciated. The swelling has not gone done. She
          > also had a temp yesterday of 103.6. This vet also gave her 350 ml. of
          > subQ's all in the same spot-neck area. I don't know if any of this is
          > relative- but I am not comfortable with this vet's diagnosis or lack
          > there-of. Please respond.
          > Thank you,
          > Debbi & Screamer
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Bogdan Bilyk
          My cat had blood clots also. He was paralysed and the vet said to put him away. I said NO WAY! He s only 11 yrs. old and still has a long way to go. I went to
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            My cat had blood clots also. He was paralysed and the vet said to put him
            away. I said NO WAY! He's only 11 yrs. old and still has a long way to go. I
            went to the health food store and bought the following items: Rescue Remedy
            ( 4 drops on the cat's tongue ), a Carnitine, Co-Q10 and
            B-5 in each capsule combination, powdered vit. C ascorbate, Bayberry
            Tincture and cayenne tincture. The cayenne stimulated the cardiovascular
            system and helps break up clots. Bayberry has been used to heal paralysis in
            animals (and humans), the Carnitine provided energy to the cells that could
            not have gotten nutrients due to the clot, Co-Q10 also provides energy to
            the heart, B-5 is also necessary for the heart and the rescue remedy calms
            the animal down during stressful events like this. I gave about 5 drops of
            the tinctures to the cat every three hours. I also mixed the vit. C with
            distilled water and also gave it to him, 1/2 dropperful at a time. He
            recovered and runs around like a kitten again. Drives me nuts, sometimes
            with all of the energy he has. Hope this helps.


            _________________________________________________________________
            Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
          • Jonathan Rosenberg
            I m happy that your cat recovered so well from his blood clot. I m sure that you have faith in the homeopathic remedies you tried (especially give then
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              I'm happy that your cat recovered so well from his blood clot. I'm sure
              that you have faith in the homeopathic remedies you tried (especially give
              then successful outcome) & I'm guessing that they couldn't possibly have
              hurt him.

              But I want to put in a word for science here. No matter what your view of
              non-traditional approaches to medicine, it is undeniable that virtually all
              of the advances in quality of life that our cats enjoy today is due to use
              of the scientific method (in which hyoptheses are cerafully tested, etc.).

              I did a lot of research on blood clots in cats when Lynx threw his first
              clot. All studies have shown that some cats (percentage debated) will
              recover very well from even severe blood clots. So far, no one has been
              able to find anything that improves on the cat's natural ability to deal
              with a clot.

              One more item to note is that these clots never actually dissolve. Instead,
              the cat's body is able to 'work around" the clots. The most common method
              is for the body to drill canals through the clot (known as recanalization).

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Bogdan Bilyk [mailto:bb11248@...]
              > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:21 PM
              > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Blood clot?
              >
              >
              > My cat had blood clots also. He was paralysed and the vet said to put him
              > away. I said NO WAY! He's only 11 yrs. old and still has a long
              > way to go. I
              > went to the health food store and bought the following items:
              > Rescue Remedy
              > ( 4 drops on the cat's tongue ), a Carnitine, Co-Q10 and
              > B-5 in each capsule combination, powdered vit. C ascorbate, Bayberry
              > Tincture and cayenne tincture. The cayenne stimulated the cardiovascular
              > system and helps break up clots. Bayberry has been used to heal
              > paralysis in
              > animals (and humans), the Carnitine provided energy to the cells
              > that could
              > not have gotten nutrients due to the clot, Co-Q10 also provides energy to
              > the heart, B-5 is also necessary for the heart and the rescue
              > remedy calms
              > the animal down during stressful events like this. I gave about 5
              > drops of
              > the tinctures to the cat every three hours. I also mixed the vit. C with
              > distilled water and also gave it to him, 1/2 dropperful at a time. He
              > recovered and runs around like a kitten again. Drives me nuts, sometimes
              > with all of the energy he has. Hope this helps.
              >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • SHBR (Stephen Brown)
              I can t comment directly on the efficacy of any of the compounds that Bogdan mentions, but to be technically correct I don t think most of them are actually
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                I can't comment directly on the efficacy of any of the compounds that Bogdan
                mentions, but to be technically correct I don't think most of them are
                actually homeopathic, i.e. diluted to the point where no active ingredient
                remains (except for maybe Rescue Remedy?). Maybe holistic remedies is a more
                accurate term?

                Jonathan, you must know whether TPA and/or streptokinase has been tested in
                cats?

                Steve

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jr40@...]
                Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:58 PM
                To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                Subject: RE: [feline-heart] Blood clot?


                I'm happy that your cat recovered so well from his blood clot. I'm sure
                that you have faith in the homeopathic remedies you tried (especially give
                then successful outcome) & I'm guessing that they couldn't possibly have
                hurt him.

                But I want to put in a word for science here. No matter what your view of
                non-traditional approaches to medicine, it is undeniable that virtually all
                of the advances in quality of life that our cats enjoy today is due to use
                of the scientific method (in which hyoptheses are cerafully tested, etc.).

                I did a lot of research on blood clots in cats when Lynx threw his first
                clot. All studies have shown that some cats (percentage debated) will
                recover very well from even severe blood clots. So far, no one has been
                able to find anything that improves on the cat's natural ability to deal
                with a clot.

                One more item to note is that these clots never actually dissolve. Instead,
                the cat's body is able to 'work around" the clots. The most common method
                is for the body to drill canals through the clot (known as recanalization).

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Bogdan Bilyk [mailto:bb11248@...]
                > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:21 PM
                > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Blood clot?
                >
                >
                > My cat had blood clots also. He was paralysed and the vet said to put him
                > away. I said NO WAY! He's only 11 yrs. old and still has a long
                > way to go. I
                > went to the health food store and bought the following items:
                > Rescue Remedy
                > ( 4 drops on the cat's tongue ), a Carnitine, Co-Q10 and
                > B-5 in each capsule combination, powdered vit. C ascorbate, Bayberry
                > Tincture and cayenne tincture. The cayenne stimulated the cardiovascular
                > system and helps break up clots. Bayberry has been used to heal
                > paralysis in
                > animals (and humans), the Carnitine provided energy to the cells
                > that could
                > not have gotten nutrients due to the clot, Co-Q10 also provides energy to
                > the heart, B-5 is also necessary for the heart and the rescue
                > remedy calms
                > the animal down during stressful events like this. I gave about 5
                > drops of
                > the tinctures to the cat every three hours. I also mixed the vit. C with
                > distilled water and also gave it to him, 1/2 dropperful at a time. He
                > recovered and runs around like a kitten again. Drives me nuts, sometimes
                > with all of the energy he has. Hope this helps.
                >
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                >
                >
                >
                >


                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              • Jonathan Rosenberg
                ... I was searching for the proper term & just got lazy & used the first word that came to mind. Thanks for the correction. ... Yep. I don t recall all of
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: SHBR (Stephen Brown) [mailto:sbrown@...]
                  > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 5:37 PM
                  > To: 'feline-heart@egroups.com'
                  > Subject: RE: [feline-heart] Blood clot?

                  > I can't comment directly on the efficacy of any of the compounds
                  > that Bogdan
                  > mentions, but to be technically correct I don't think most of them are
                  > actually homeopathic, i.e. diluted to the point where no active ingredient
                  > remains (except for maybe Rescue Remedy?). Maybe holistic
                  > remedies is a more accurate term?

                  I was searching for the proper term & just got lazy & used the first word
                  that came to mind. Thanks for the correction.

                  > Jonathan, you must know whether TPA and/or streptokinase has been
                  > tested in cats?

                  Yep. I don't recall all of the details, but here's what I found out:

                  1) The use of streptokinase showed no improvement in recovery on
                  experimental cats.
                  2) During the t-PA experiments, 50% of the cats died during therapy. This
                  is believed to be worse than the odds for a cat that are not treated with
                  t-PA.

                  > Steve

                  --
                  JR
                  & Tabby (RB), Lynx (RB), Licorice, Tigger>
                • Bogdan Bilyk
                  Jonathan, the ONLY homeopathic remedy that I used was Rescue Remedy. The rest were herbs and vitamins which have been researched and studied. If you would put
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Jonathan, the ONLY homeopathic remedy that I used was Rescue Remedy. The
                    rest were herbs and vitamins which have been researched and studied. If you
                    would put in some thought and understanding into what you read, like a good
                    scientist is supposed to do, you would not have written your erroneous post
                    and wasted both of our times. Faith can be blind, science is based on trial
                    and error studies that show what works and what doesn't on a repeatable
                    basis. Just because you may not have heard of some of those nutrients that I
                    used does not make them any less valid. It just demonstrates a paucity of
                    knowledge about those substances on your part. Good luck with your 'limited'
                    knowledge of 'science'.


                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                  • Jonathan Rosenberg
                    ... Yes, my terminology was sloppy. Someone else already pointed this out. ... I challenge you to point out even one erroneous point in my post (except for my
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Bogdan Bilyk [mailto:bb11248@...]
                      > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:54 PM
                      > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                      > Subject: RE: [feline-heart] Blood clot?

                      > Jonathan, the ONLY homeopathic remedy that I used was Rescue Remedy.

                      Yes, my terminology was sloppy. Someone else already pointed this out.

                      > The rest were herbs and vitamins which have been researched and
                      > studied. If you would put in some thought and understanding into
                      > what you read, like a good scientist is supposed to do, you would
                      > not have written your erroneous post and wasted both of our times.

                      I challenge you to point out even one erroneous point in my post (except for
                      my incorrect use of the term "homeopathic").

                      Furthermore, I'm not sure why you're so upset. I never said that the
                      remedies you used didn't work. I stated that no study I have seen has shown
                      that there is any way to improve on a cat's natural ability to deal with
                      blood clots. If you know of a scientific study that shows otherwise, I'm
                      sure we would all love to see the reference. This would be a major
                      breakthrough in dealing with blood clots in cats.

                      > Faith can be blind, science is based on trial and error studies
                      > that show what works and what doesn't on a repeatable
                      > basis.

                      At least we agree on something.

                      > Just because you may not have heard of some of those nutrients

                      I have heard of all of these nutrients.

                      > that I used does not make them any less valid. It just demonstrates
                      > a paucity of knowledge about those substances on your part.

                      I am more than willing, even anxious, to have my paucity reversed. Please
                      point us at any scientific studies that show the efficiacy of the herbs you
                      mentioned & their claimed benefits:

                      - cayenne stimulates the cardiovascular system and helps break up
                      clots
                      - bayberry heals paralysis in animals (and humans)
                      - carnitine provides energy to the cells that could not get
                      nutrients due to the clot
                      - Rescue Remedy calms the animal down during stress

                      > Good luck with your 'limited' knowledge of 'science'.

                      I am hoping that you will do more than wish me luck. I am hoping that you
                      can help me learn by responding with appropriate references to studies.

                      --
                      JR
                      & Tabby (RB), Lynx (RB), Licorice, Tigger
                    • Voula Augerinos
                      Hi Jonathan, ... Dear Jonathan, I write this in a light hearted and non-adversarial way. Your statement reminded me so much of our allopathic vet, who I have
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Jonathan,

                        You wrote :

                        >it is undeniable that virtually all
                        > of the advances in quality of life that our cats enjoy today is due to
                        > use
                        > of the scientific method (in which hyoptheses are cerafully tested,
                        > etc.).

                        Dear Jonathan, I write this in a light hearted and non-adversarial
                        way. Your statement reminded me so much of our allopathic vet, who I have
                        tremendous affection for.
                        His favourite saying is "show me the statistics", when I talk about herbal
                        medicine to him. LOL! I just keep talking and he just keeps rolling his
                        eyes. In the end we are rolling our eyes at each other! LOL!

                        Lots of Love.

                        Love, Voula and Pebbles and Lucy and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
                      • Jonathan Rosenberg
                        ... I appreciate the note. And I m not suggesting that everything in life comes down to science . Certainly the love I feel for my cats (+ the cats at the
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Voula Augerinos [mailto:catwoman1@...]
                          > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 9:14 PM
                          > To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [feline-heart] Blood clot?

                          > > it is undeniable that virtually all of the advances in quality
                          > > of life that our cats enjoy today is due to use
                          > > of the scientific method (in which hyoptheses are cerafully tested,
                          > > etc.).

                          > Dear Jonathan, I write this in a light hearted and non-adversarial
                          > way. Your statement reminded me so much of our allopathic vet, who I have
                          > tremendous affection for.
                          > His favourite saying is "show me the statistics", when I talk about herbal
                          > medicine to him. LOL! I just keep talking and he just keeps rolling his
                          > eyes. In the end we are rolling our eyes at each other! LOL!

                          I appreciate the note. And I'm not suggesting that everything in life comes
                          down to "science". Certainly the love I feel for my cats (+ the cats at the
                          shelter where I volunteer + Pebbles + all cats, to be frank) has no
                          scientific explanation.

                          And I never suggested that people should avoid non-allopathic remedies. I
                          was responding to the original post with the viewpoint of modern science.
                          That stimulated an attack from the original poster claiming that my post was
                          erroneous & a waste of time & that I have a limited knowledge of science.

                          I'm quite open minded & I simply asked the originator to back up his/her
                          claims. Believe me, I would love to be wrong & find that there is a viable
                          way to treat blood clots in cats. It's a devastating disease.

                          > Lots of Love.
                          > Love, Voula and Pebbles and Lucy and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.

                          --
                          JR
                          & Tabby (RB), Lynx (RB), Licorice, Tigger
                        • Bogdan Bilyk
                          Jonathan, I apologise. I did not mean to attack you. Sometimes I do come across as a little bit sarcastic. For that, I am sorry. A good starting point for
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Jonathan, I apologise. I did not mean to attack you. Sometimes I do come
                            across as a little bit sarcastic. For that, I am sorry. A good starting
                            point for treating cat's would be the following url:
                            http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1158/feline.htm
                            As for Cayenne, although I can't list any studies that have been done on
                            animals or people, because it would take an inordinate amount of time to
                            search for all of the references, there is some good information here:
                            http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1158/cayenne.htm
                            from Dr. Schulze. he has treated many people with cayenne and I have heard
                            of no negative references about cayenne when using this herb on animals.
                            That is why I used it on my cat. What did I or the cat have to lose? After
                            all, the vet just wanted to put the cat away. I have used cayenne on myself
                            for several years and I knew what positive benefits it has had on me, so I
                            naturally decide to use it on my cat and it worked. My cat is healthy and
                            running around driving me nuts. A joyful nuts, because I do love the little
                            bum. His name is INKY because he is coal black. And now, he is also healthy
                            AND alive because I did NOT listen to the vet and I treated him myself with
                            herbs, vitamins and a homeopathic product. There ARE situations that should
                            be handled by a vet, but in this case, the vet wanted to put him away so I
                            decided to treat him myself and succeeded.


                            _________________________________________________________________
                            Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                          • Voula Augerinos
                            Dear Jonathan, ... comes ... the ... You are right. Love is beyond everything. Love, Voula and Pebbles (thanks for loving me Jonathan!) and Lucy (he loves me
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dear Jonathan,

                              You wrote :
                              > I appreciate the note. And I'm not suggesting that everything in life
                              comes
                              > down to "science". Certainly the love I feel for my cats (+ the cats at
                              the
                              > shelter where I volunteer + Pebbles + all cats, to be frank) has no
                              > scientific explanation.

                              You are right. Love is beyond everything.

                              Love, Voula and Pebbles (thanks for loving me Jonathan!) and Lucy (he loves
                              me too! yay!) and my Beautiful Angel Sachie.
                            • Mike & Linda Irrgang (Now in Jamaica!)
                              Personally, I have always found all the info on this site very informative and everyone very open-minded...I think we are all just trying to share what we can
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 4, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Personally, I have always found all the info on this site very informative
                                and everyone very open-minded...I think we are all just trying to share what
                                we can to help each other work thru what are less than ideal
                                situations....situations which I am sure, most of us, especially our poor
                                pets, would rather have been spared....I for one want to hear about anything
                                and everything that may even remotely have the possibility of helping my
                                kitty.

                                Pls keep all info coming!

                                Linda, Pum and Max



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Bogdan Bilyk [mailto:bb11248@...]
                                Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:54 PM
                                To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [feline-heart] Blood clot?


                                Jonathan, the ONLY homeopathic remedy that I used was Rescue Remedy. The
                                rest were herbs and vitamins which have been researched and studied. If you
                                would put in some thought and understanding into what you read, like a good
                                scientist is supposed to do, you would not have written your erroneous post
                                and wasted both of our times. Faith can be blind, science is based on trial
                                and error studies that show what works and what doesn't on a repeatable
                                basis. Just because you may not have heard of some of those nutrients that I
                                used does not make them any less valid. It just demonstrates a paucity of
                                knowledge about those substances on your part. Good luck with your 'limited'
                                knowledge of 'science'.


                                _________________________________________________________________
                                Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


                                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                feline-heart-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                              • joe.weissmann@uc.edu
                                Bogdan, kindly point us to the scientific studies and research you ve found in regards to dealing with the effects on felines, of the herbs and vitamins you
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jan 5, 2001
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Bogdan, kindly point us to the scientific studies and research you've
                                  found in regards to dealing with the effects on felines, of the herbs
                                  and vitamins you used in treating blod clots, specifically Saddle
                                  Thrombus.

                                  Thanks, Joe Weissmann



                                  --- In feline-heart@egroups.com, "Bogdan Bilyk" <bb11248@h...> wrote:
                                  > Jonathan, the ONLY homeopathic remedy that I used was Rescue Remedy.
                                  The
                                  > rest were herbs and vitamins which have been researched and studied.
                                  If you
                                  > would put in some thought and understanding into what you read, like
                                  a good
                                  > scientist is supposed to do, you would not have written your
                                  erroneous post
                                  > and wasted both of our times. Faith can be blind, science is based
                                  on trial
                                  > and error studies that show what works and what doesn't on a
                                  repeatable
                                  > basis. Just because you may not have heard of some of those
                                  nutrients that I
                                  > used does not make them any less valid. It just demonstrates a
                                  paucity of
                                  > knowledge about those substances on your part. Good luck with your
                                  'limited'
                                  > knowledge of 'science'.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > _________________________________________________________________
                                  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                                • Bogdan Bilyk
                                  Joe, see my reply to Jonathan. ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jan 5, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Joe, see my reply to Jonathan.


                                    >From: joe.weissmann@...
                                    >Reply-To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                    >To: feline-heart@egroups.com
                                    >Subject: [feline-heart] Re: Blood clot?
                                    >Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:25:20 -0000
                                    >
                                    >Bogdan, kindly point us to the scientific studies and research you've
                                    >found in regards to dealing with the effects on felines, of the herbs
                                    >and vitamins you used in treating blod clots, specifically Saddle
                                    >Thrombus.
                                    >
                                    >Thanks, Joe Weissmann
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >--- In feline-heart@egroups.com, "Bogdan Bilyk" <bb11248@h...> wrote:
                                    > > Jonathan, the ONLY homeopathic remedy that I used was Rescue Remedy.
                                    >The
                                    > > rest were herbs and vitamins which have been researched and studied.
                                    >If you
                                    > > would put in some thought and understanding into what you read, like
                                    >a good
                                    > > scientist is supposed to do, you would not have written your
                                    >erroneous post
                                    > > and wasted both of our times. Faith can be blind, science is based
                                    >on trial
                                    > > and error studies that show what works and what doesn't on a
                                    >repeatable
                                    > > basis. Just because you may not have heard of some of those
                                    >nutrients that I
                                    > > used does not make them any less valid. It just demonstrates a
                                    >paucity of
                                    > > knowledge about those substances on your part. Good luck with your
                                    >'limited'
                                    > > knowledge of 'science'.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > _________________________________________________________________
                                    > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                                    >

                                    _________________________________________________________________
                                    Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.